10 Step Guide To Buying A Used Thai Condo?

[Khun Watchaporn]

I am looking at buying a used condo in BKK, owned by a Thai in a Thai area, through a property website (DD Property).

I have never bought anything other than a few vehicles and am not sure of the exact procedure in ensuring it goes smoothly and correctly (and I don’t lose all my money haha). I am an EU national living here on a Non-Imm Visa.

I am aware of the following basics:

The money must come from overseas (my home country) and be officially transfered into Thailand for the purpose of buying a condo.

The condo building must not be more than 49% foreign owned.

I am looking at putting together a 10 step list of how exactly I go from wanting to buy it with my money in a home country account, to owning it outright in my own name.

I guess the 1^st step is finding out that the condo is at least 51% Thai owned, so I can get legal confirmation
that I can indeed own one of the condos there. It isn't a big flash 40 story complex developed by some known property developer. Is there a government dept. that will have the ownership list for each condo that can confirm that not more than 49% are non Thai owned? Or how does one go about getting official confirmation that you can indeed own it?

Thanks very much.

[scorecard]

- Check and get a written confirmation from the Juristic Person member of the condo owners committee that no old fees are owing on the units(s) your looking at.

- Check whether the waster water etc., equipment for the whole building / the swimming pool equipment etc., is in good working order and has recently been inspected / passed inspection by the BMA.

- Check if the building is prone to flooding.

- Check if neighbors have dogs or other animals which make noise or smell (then again maybe your OK with this factor).

- Check if each unit has it's own electricity and water meter. Or in other words check that:

- The total electric bill for the whole building is not just divided equally between all the owners,

- The office does not add a further charge to the actual bills.

- Check the other owners are satisfied with the activities and approach of the current owners committee. Is the owners committee a closed shop? Are other owners allowed to attend committee meetings? If not, beware.

- Check what the process is to buy supplies etc., for the building (should be by three quotations and need written approval from two members of the owners committee - in some condos the owners have installed rules that these signatures must rotate across the committee (i.e. cannot be the same two committee members each time and must change where there are regular purchases from the same suppliers (E.g. cleaning supplies), and check there is separation between approval to buy and who can sign cheques to pay for the supplies.

In my old condo (downtown Bkk) the same company had been engaged for about 8 years for servicing of the 3 lifts. One condo owner (same building) was the major shareholder in the lift company. Service was poor. At one meeting a new committee member asked whether there were three quotations for the annual renewal of the lift contract which was on the meeting agenda. Answer: no.

New committee member demanded that the contract renewal be postponed and three quotations gathered, each quotation gathered by different committee members. At next meeting each contender presented their credentials, references, capabilities, experience, etc. Contract was then given to a different supplier at a 50% cost saving.

- Check when the accounts for the whole building were last audited.The accountant for my old condo passed away and a new accountant was appointed, the new one a sister of a committee member. The new acct., presented the accounts, P&L etc., for the first time at the next AGM. Within a within a few minutes there were numerous queries from the floor of the meeting. Simple mistakes in arithmetic, important items just missing. Her response: 'ohh your too serious, it's just not important'. Next comment from the floor 'unacceptable and the accountant should not be paid any fees'. A vote was taken and almost every owner agreed. Sacked on the spot.

- Check if there is sufficient insurance coverage.

- Check if there is a sinking fund and how many Baht in the sinking fund and where are the funds lodged.

Next please.

Good luck.

Edited May 7, 2013 by scorecard

[scorecard]

- Check and get a written confirmation from the Juristic Person member of the condo owners committee that no old fees are owing on the units(s) your looking at.

- Check whether the waster water etc., equipment for the whole building / the swimming pool equipment etc., is in good working order and has recently been inspected / passed inspection by the BMA.

- Check if the building is prone to flooding.

- Check if neighbors have dogs or other animals which make noise or smell (then again maybe your OK with this factor).

- Check if each unit has it's own electricity and water meter. Or in other words check that:

- The total electric bill for the whole building is not just divided equally between all the owners,

- The office does not add a further charge to the actual bills.

- Check the other owners are satisfied with the activities and approach of the current owners committee. Is the owners committee a closed shop? Are other owners allowed to attend committee meetings? If not, beware.

- Check what the process is to buy supplies etc., for the building (should be by three quotations and need written approval from two members of the owners committee - in some condos the owners have installed rules that these signatures must rotate across the committee (i.e. cannot be the same two committee members each time and must change where there are regular purchases from the same suppliers (E.g. cleaning supplies), and check there is separation between approval to buy and who can sign cheques to pay for the supplies.

In my old condo (downtown Bkk) the same company had been engaged for about 8 years for servicing of the 3 lifts. One condo owner (same building) was the major shareholder in the lift company. Service was poor. At one meeting a new committee member asked whether there were three quotations for the annual renewal of the lift contract which was on the meeting agenda. Answer: no.

New committee member demanded that the contract renewal be postponed and three quotations gathered, each quotation gathered by different committee members. At next meeting each contender presented their credentials, references, capabilities, experience, etc. Contract was then given to a different supplier at a 50% cost saving.

- Check when the accounts for the whole building were last audited.The accountant for my old condo passed away and a new accountant was appointed, the new one a sister of a committee member. The new acct., presented the accounts, P&L etc., for the first time at the next AGM. Within a within a few minutes there were numerous queries from the floor of the meeting. Simple mistakes in arithmetic, important items just missing. Her response: 'ohh your too serious, it's just not important'. Next comment from the floor 'unacceptable and the accountant should not be paid any fees'. A vote was taken and almost every owner agreed. Sacked on the spot.

- Check if there is sufficient insurance coverage.

- Check if there is a sinking fund and how many Baht in the sinking fund and where are the funds lodged.

Next please.

Good luck.

I forgot one important item - security.

- Take a good look at how the building security is set up / works:

- Is the main door left open all day with no security in terms of access to the upper residential floors?

- Is there a magnetic lock system on the main door to the main residential floors, but in reality the door is seldom closed.

- Is there any security on the car park floors - from the car park to the residential parts of the building, is it ignored by the owners (owners deliberately leave all the doors open)

- Is there any camera system around the building? Is yes, is it working, who is responsible to monitor the screens, and do they actually monitor the screens, etc., who is responsible to contact the police if needed etc?

- Can delivery men (Pizza Co., / KFC etc) just walk in and out and go to the residential floors without lodging an ID card with security? (Some condos have rules saying delivery men can go to your room without lodging ID card with security, some have no rules - just open access with no controls whatever, some condos have rules that owners / residents must go to the lobby to take delivery of food etc. And is there a security protocol for workmen coming into the building, e.g. plumber, renovations etc.

Years back in my building there was a break in and a wife and two young children beaten up. This was the catalyst for a long overdue review of security and (because of the incident) most other owners became much more serious about their own actions to close doors etc. It was also the catalyst for a review of the insurance on the building.

The insurance company did a comprehensive analysis of the building then refused to renew the insurance.

Why? The review revealed that the owners / occupiers of the penthouse (25th floor) were actually running a printing factors inside their very big unit, with very big stocks of flammable paper and very flammable inks, etc. , all brought in through the cargo lift that was out of sight of the main residents lobby area. The owners initially refused to remove the printing factory and the committee had to take legal action and get something like a court order to have it forceably shut down.

- Or is security well set up and security staff active to keep the building secure.

- And who does the outside security company who provide the security staff report to? When I bought my condo the outside security company reported to the 'Managing Director' (a self appointed title the admin./ building services supervisor had given herself - and in reality she had no authority to do anything - and was totally incapable).

The outside security company owner (an army general) just laughed at her when she tried to discuss security issues with him. The internal staff in the condo (small maintenance man / cleaners etc.,) also laughed at her.

After the incident I mentioned above this was changed and the chairperson of the owners committee was then responsible for security matters, and he did a good job and was unafraid of the army general and in fact sacked the security company (after a committee discussion) and found a replacement company owned by civilians. The internal supervisor mentioned was also sacked because of collusion with the company supplying the cleaning products to the building, let alone the fact that she paid no attention whatever to the items listed in the Job Description and was often quite rude when owners attempted to speak with her.

etc.

Also, be aware that many 'property websites' in Thailand are run by 'remote control' with the sellers entering the details onto the website (often after paying a fee to the agency), but in reality the property company doing nothing whatever to actively try to sell the property.

In some cases if a potential buyer responds they are given the address etc., and again the property agent does nothing to try to push / close the sale, but of course claim their commission plus expenses and various fees if there is a sale.

Edited May 7, 2013 by scorecard

[ExpatOilWorker]

Check parking. Some older buildings have assigned parking, so you might end up at the 7th floor, everyday passing free spaces on your way up.

[rayongchelsea]

Well run second hand condos offer the best value and least hassle in the current market.

[bkksiam]

From reading online I see that the Condominium Juristic Person (CJP) has 15 days to provide a certificate indicating that a unit being sold has no outstanding debts associated with it.

When I contacted a lawyer to represent me about the purchase, he said that often CJPs don't want to turn over this information.

"Yes, we will enquire with the juristic management office as to any outstanding dues. Please note

however that there are condominium management offices that refuse to provide any certification."

So it seems to me that without this, the buyer could be left to pay the outstanding condominium fees. Am I right and whose responsibility is it to get this certificate? Does this certificate need to be registered at the land office?

[David48]

OP ... some excellent advice you have received ... even I have learnt a few things, and I have a Degree in Property.

Parking spaces is a good item ... if there is one on your title, assigned or dedicated to your unit make sure no-one else has nicked it.

Check the floor plan of the unit above you and hopefully it will be the same as yours. The reason being that bedrooms are under bedrooms etc. I once rented an apartment and our unit was below the sub-penthouse and they, being a larger unit had a different floor design, meaning our bedroom was under their kitchen ... heaps of noise.

If you can (and I don't know how you would do it in Thailand) check the ration of renters to owners.

Owning an apartment normally brings more pride in the building ... though in Thailand it may mean that they think they can get away with more ...

EDIT ... cool user name ... ... no Avatar ...

.

Edited May 9, 2013 by David48

[24014874]

I bought a condo from a bank via an auction, unbeknown to us the bank and condo management were at loggerheads over unpaid bills by the bank, I have not been able to do any repairs / decorating, since I bought due to this situation which is still ongoing, this is 3 years now. Could I sue the bank for loss of potential rent?