Online Graphic Design Business

[jrtmedic]

Let us as the question ----

What can a non degree qualified "Graphic Designer" expect to earn via the internet ? ----800.000 pa( The amount a retiree has to show) or 400,000 pa, the amount a man married to a Thai has to show for an extension of stay ?

[Soutpeel]

IMA_FARANG is correct. The authorities don't have a clue. You cannot possibly have a viable and legal business if you want to follow thai law. Just the fact that you would have to give 4 fake jobs to thais will not only take out a solid chunk of your revenue but also put your business at risk should the authorities investigate it a bit closely.

Just do an analysis of the risk/rewards of each solution. If you are working with foreign customers, you have zero incentive to become legal as you cannot possibly get caught and you have your visa situation already sorted out. If you want thai customers, you may need to go the legal way. Then it will be very expensive, complicated and you will still possibly face problems with the fake jobs situation.

One suspects the authrorities do have clue and that the reason they do make it "difficult" as stated in previous post..you would have every nobhead with a lap top claiming they work on line just to stay here long term...

ok lets suppose they made it "easy" to set up here and do away with capitalisation/Thai staff requirements, but replaced this with requiring individuals working this way to pay 47% income tax in Thailand...would the "on-liners" be satisified with that ?

No they don't, because when you ask them if you need a work permit, they say yes, but they don't know how to get this work permit (as it is in fact impossible to get for that kind of activities).

Obviously nobody would be satisfied with that confiscatory levels of income tax. But I'm sure many freelance workers would be very satisfied to be able to stay in thailand with a business visa, a legal job, and a reasonable amount of taxes to pay.

Its not for them top know..they dont need WP's to work in Thailand .. ...and its not impossible, in fact I remember a post from one TV member who did exactly this and got legal...but he was prepared to put up the cash and also employ people...

In other words you want free long stay visa's ?...you get something for nothing ?.....how can 47% be confiscatory when you dont have to have to put up any start up captial, or employ anyone...but you are getting a "free pass" to stay long term as a "resident"...

Seems to me you dont really want to operate a business in Thailand but want a long stay visa and finance your life style with pocket money earned on the web...

[pistachios]

IMA_FARANG is correct. The authorities don't have a clue. You cannot possibly have a viable and legal business if you want to follow thai law. Just the fact that you would have to give 4 fake jobs to thais will not only take out a solid chunk of your revenue but also put your business at risk should the authorities investigate it a bit closely.

Just do an analysis of the risk/rewards of each solution. If you are working with foreign customers, you have zero incentive to become legal as you cannot possibly get caught and you have your visa situation already sorted out. If you want thai customers, you may need to go the legal way. Then it will be very expensive, complicated and you will still possibly face problems with the fake jobs situation.

One suspects the authrorities do have clue and that the reason they do make it "difficult" as stated in previous post..you would have every nobhead with a lap top claiming they work on line just to stay here long term...

ok lets suppose they made it "easy" to set up here and do away with capitalisation/Thai staff requirements, but replaced this with requiring individuals working this way to pay 47% income tax in Thailand...would the "on-liners" be satisified with that ?

No they don't, because when you ask them if you need a work permit, they say yes, but they don't know how to get this work permit (as it is in fact impossible to get for that kind of activities).

Obviously nobody would be satisfied with that confiscatory levels of income tax. But I'm sure many freelance workers would be very satisfied to be able to stay in thailand with a business visa, a legal job, and a reasonable amount of taxes to pay.

Its not for them top know..they dont need WP's to work in Thailand .. ...and its not impossible, in fact I remember a post from one TV member who did exactly this and got legal...but he was prepared to put up the cash and also employ people...

In other words you want free long stay visa's ?...you get something for nothing ?.....how can 47% be confiscatory when you dont have to have to put up any start up captial, or employ anyone...but you are getting a "free pass" to stay long term as a "resident"...

Seems to me you dont really want to operate a business in Thailand but want a long stay visa and finance your life style with pocket money earned on the web...

It's not for the labor department to know how to obtain a document issued and required by the same department?

Excuse me but I fail to see any substance in your argumentation. I suggest you stopped immediatly wasting thai visa members time with your useless comments.

Same as your huge hypothetical tax percentage. You are not ready to pay 99% taxes therefore you are just a freeloader... Very clever.

Next please

Edited May 9, 2013 by pistachios

[Soutpeel]

It's not for the labor department to know how to obtain a document issued and required by the same department?

Excuse me but I fail to see any substance in your argumentation. I suggest you stopped immediatly wasting thai visa members time with your useless comments.

Same as your huge hypothetical tax percentage. You are not ready to pay 99% taxes therefore you are just a freeloader... Very clever.

Next please

I am sure if you ask them for the forms to fill in to get the WP they will give them to you, that is part of their job.... but they are not there to provide free advice...if you cant do it yourself employ a lawyer...

47% is not a huge hypothetical tax...its actually a preveiling effective tax rate in a lot of western countries...so actually based in reality..

but nice to see you will not answer any of my other points...and why am I wasting people time with my comments ?...I giving an opinion which I am entitled to..and if you believe my opinion is not worth anything...then dont read the comment...

I have yet to hear from you how they could structure the laws to enable Thai authorities to allow "on-liners" all I have heard from you is bleating on about is "how hard it is, they dont know what they are doing" etc etc..

as to 99% tax thing...I do work here and pay the taxes they ask me to pay, and of course if they tried to hit me for 99% tax I wouldnt be here so stop making silly childish comments about huge hypothetical taxes...

but ok...what about 40% then ?

Edited May 9, 2013 by Soutpeel

[pistachios]

It's not for the labor department to know how to obtain a document issued and required by the same department?

Excuse me but I fail to see any substance in your argumentation. I suggest you stopped immediatly wasting thai visa members time with your useless comments.

Same as your huge hypothetical tax percentage. You are not ready to pay 99% taxes therefore you are just a freeloader... Very clever.

Next please

I am sure if you ask them for the forms to fill in to get the WP they will give them to you, that is part of their job.... but they are not there to provide free advice...if you cant do it yourself employ a lawyer...

47% is not a huge hypothetical tax...its actually a preveiling effective tax rate in a lot of western countries...so actually based in reality..

but nice to see you will not answer any of my other points...and why am I wasting people time with my comments ?...I giving an opinion which I am entitled to..and if you believe my opinion is not worth anything...then dont read the comment...

I have yet to hear from you how they could structure the laws to enable Thai authorities to allow "on-liners" all I have heard from you is bleating on about is "how hard it is, they dont know what they are doing" etc etc..

as to 99% tax thing...I do work here and pay the taxes they ask me to pay, and of course if they tried to hit me for 99% tax I wouldnt be here so stop making silly childish comments about huge hypothetical taxes...

but ok...what about 40% then ?

Even if the labor department requires freelancers to have a work permit in order to work in thailand, there is NO possibility for a freelancer to get one. Just check the required documentation to obtain a work permit. If a freelancer would want to work legally in thailand, he would have go the company way (and break a few other laws in the process), therefore would not be a freelancer anymore.

So many foreigners are working "illegally" in thailand this way and do not pay taxes at all as a result. A simple solution would be to create a freelance work permit, renewable based on declared revenues and paid taxes with a certain treshold. The taxes don't need to be different than actual thai revenue taxes. It's a win win situation.

[jrtmedic]

"Freelance" in my opinion is a euphemism for the workshy freeloader !

If the Thai Authorities where ever tempted to introduce a visa based on "Freelance work" one of the pre-requisites should be evidence of a successful "freelance" career in the home country backed by audited business accounts.

A wish to duck and dive in order to avoid quite reasonable requirements to undertake business in Thailand should be viewed with scepticism.

It is unlikely that a self admitted abuser of drugs/alcohol would ever be able to pass the simplest tests of suitability.

[Soutpeel]

It's not for the labor department to know how to obtain a document issued and required by the same department?

Excuse me but I fail to see any substance in your argumentation. I suggest you stopped immediatly wasting thai visa members time with your useless comments.

Same as your huge hypothetical tax percentage. You are not ready to pay 99% taxes therefore you are just a freeloader... Very clever.

Next please

I am sure if you ask them for the forms to fill in to get the WP they will give them to you, that is part of their job.... but they are not there to provide free advice...if you cant do it yourself employ a lawyer...

47% is not a huge hypothetical tax...its actually a preveiling effective tax rate in a lot of western countries...so actually based in reality..

but nice to see you will not answer any of my other points...and why am I wasting people time with my comments ?...I giving an opinion which I am entitled to..and if you believe my opinion is not worth anything...then dont read the comment...

I have yet to hear from you how they could structure the laws to enable Thai authorities to allow "on-liners" all I have heard from you is bleating on about is "how hard it is, they dont know what they are doing" etc etc..

as to 99% tax thing...I do work here and pay the taxes they ask me to pay, and of course if they tried to hit me for 99% tax I wouldnt be here so stop making silly childish comments about huge hypothetical taxes...

but ok...what about 40% then ?

Even if the labor department requires freelancers to have a work permit in order to work in thailand, there is NO possibility for a freelancer to get one. Just check the required documentation to obtain a work permit. If a freelancer would want to work legally in thailand, he would have go the company way (and break a few other laws in the process), therefore would not be a freelancer anymore.

So many foreigners are working "illegally" in thailand this way and do not pay taxes at all as a result. A simple solution would be to create a freelance work permit, renewable based on declared revenues and paid taxes with a certain treshold. The taxes don't need to be different than actual thai revenue taxes. It's a win win situation.

OK so cite me country anywhere in world that issues a non-national of that country a "freelance" work permit to work in said country in the manner your suggesting...could a thai national go the UK as a tourist/student and do the same ?....No

Even the vast majority of so called "freelancers" in the UK who are UK nationals operate through their own limited companies to reduce their personal tax burdens...so this so called "freelance" thing IMHO opinion is a bit of a myth...

And will ask again why should so-called freelancer's be excempt from the rules governing business start ups?..it seems to me "freelancers" want to be treated differently, pay very little or no tax and be given a long term "free stay" in Thailand...people are working here illegally because they choose to, not because they have to, so please dont use the argument that the rules are not fair...for the most its do with the fact that people cant be bothered or dont believe the rules apply to them

Personally I dont care what people do, get a WP or dont, as long as understand and are prepared to take the risk and consequences of their actions if caught..

[Hawkman]

It's not for the labor department to know how to obtain a document issued and required by the same department?

Excuse me but I fail to see any substance in your argumentation. I suggest you stopped immediatly wasting thai visa members time with your useless comments.

Same as your huge hypothetical tax percentage. You are not ready to pay 99% taxes therefore you are just a freeloader... Very clever.

Next please

I am sure if you ask them for the forms to fill in to get the WP they will give them to you, that is part of their job.... but they are not there to provide free advice...if you cant do it yourself employ a lawyer...

47% is not a huge hypothetical tax...its actually a preveiling effective tax rate in a lot of western countries...so actually based in reality..

but nice to see you will not answer any of my other points...and why am I wasting people time with my comments ?...I giving an opinion which I am entitled to..and if you believe my opinion is not worth anything...then dont read the comment...

I have yet to hear from you how they could structure the laws to enable Thai authorities to allow "on-liners" all I have heard from you is bleating on about is "how hard it is, they dont know what they are doing" etc etc..

as to 99% tax thing...I do work here and pay the taxes they ask me to pay, and of course if they tried to hit me for 99% tax I wouldnt be here so stop making silly childish comments about huge hypothetical taxes...

but ok...what about 40% then ?

Even if the labor department requires freelancers to have a work permit in order to work in thailand, there is NO possibility for a freelancer to get one. Just check the required documentation to obtain a work permit. If a freelancer would want to work legally in thailand, he would have go the company way (and break a few other laws in the process), therefore would not be a freelancer anymore.

So many foreigners are working "illegally" in thailand this way and do not pay taxes at all as a result. A simple solution would be to create a freelance work permit, renewable based on declared revenues and paid taxes with a certain treshold. The taxes don't need to be different than actual thai revenue taxes. It's a win win situation.

OK so cite me country anywhere in world that issues a non-national of that country a "freelance" work permit to work in said country in the manner your suggesting...could a thai national go the UK as a tourist/student and do the same ?....No

Even the vast majority of so called "freelancers" in the UK who are UK nationals operate through their own limited companies to reduce their personal tax burdens...so this so called "freelance" thing IMHO opinion is a bit of a myth...

And will ask again why should so-called freelancer's be excempt from the rules governing business start ups?..it seems to me "freelancers" want to be treated differently, pay very little or no tax and be given a long term "free stay" in Thailand...people are working here illegally because they choose to, not because they have to, so please dont use the argument that the rules are not fair...for the most its do with the fact that people cant be bothered or dont believe the rules apply to them

Personally I dont care what people do, get a WP or dont, as long as understand and are prepared to take the risk and consequences of their actions if caught..

Spot on, but that's basically what everyone's saying; the illegal route seems the only option for many; though many want to find a legal route.

What does seem weird though is they let people here on a Retirement visa to show money coming in (as they know that they will spend it), so why not do the same for people with Online businesses ( a certain amount coming in) and at least those people will pay tax as well.

My problem isn't with Thai Labor laws, it's the world labor laws in general. Online business is a normal job now for thousands of people around the world.

I'm in two minds re this as 1, - If Offshore oil workers and retirees can spend all their time in Thailand, why can't those wanting to work?; but on the other side of the coin as you've mentioned before you're open to any Tom, Dick and Harry with their laptop coming over.

I think there are worse things we should be worrying about who Thailand lets in though; do we want to keep having an open door for criminals, wealthy and not-so wealthy, perverts and s*x tourists? That's more of a concern.

[pistachios]

As far as I know, anyone who can legally stay in the EU can become self employed by various legal means. They don't have to create a company and employ 4 nationals to do that. There are so many graphists, programmers, webmasters, writers, coaches, traders etc that are working independantly and legally, in a country where they arent a national, why not in thailand?

I don't see why such activities would need an office and a proper workplace for 4 employees, when your job is to translate a book or design some logos... Unfortunatly, you can't even give phony jobs to some thai friends, the immigration requires proof of a real workplace and real activities. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/637187-work-permit-requirement-pictures-of-4x-employees-at-the-workplaceregistered-office/

The rules are not only unfair, they are impossible to follow. I agree with you though, for all those activities, there is always a choice, which is to stay illegally in thailand or to settle somewhere else.

[Hawkman]

As far as I know, anyone who can legally stay in the EU can become self employed by various legal means. They don't have to create a company and employ 4 nationals to do that. There are so many graphists, programmers, webmasters, writers, coaches, traders etc that are working independantly and legally, in a country where they arent a national, why not in thailand?

I don't see why such activities would need an office and a proper workplace for 4 employees, when your job is to translate a book or design some logos... Unfortunatly, you can't even give phony jobs to some thai friends, the immigration requires proof of a real workplace and real activities. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/637187-work-permit-requirement-pictures-of-4x-employees-at-the-workplaceregistered-office/

The rules are not only unfair, they are impossible to follow. I agree with you though, for all those activities, there is always a choice, which is to stay illegally in thailand or to settle somewhere else.

I'm hoping to set something up over the next couple of years; but for the first couple of years, there will be absolutely zero need for other staff. What will I pay them to do? 1 person to turn on my laptop? Another, to carry it? Down the line, yes, there may be a need, but I need the business to become successful first, but I won't be able to do that, if all my money AND some are gone on paying wages to people I have no need for.

Makes no sense. This isn't the 1960's, we live in the computer and internet age now.

[Nautilus05]

I'm in two minds re this as 1, - If Offshore oil workers and retirees can spend all their time in Thailand, why can't those wanting to work?; but on the other side of the coin as you've mentioned before you're open to any Tom, Dick and Harry with their laptop coming over.

I don't personally see an issue with that either, as long as the self-employment VISA is structured properly. In order to be eligible, you must prove a) an income of say 80k/month, the income is derived from outside of Thailand, and c) you're paying Thai income tax on that income. Then who cares if they're lying about actually working online or not, as long as they're paying taxes on minimum of 80k/month. It's either that, or they sit around on tourist and ED visas without paying any taxes, so might as well get some from them.

[jrtmedic]

Those who object to the Thai Government rules should attempt to gain entry to the USA, Canada, Australia or New Zealand based on some mad cap "freelance" concept.

Come back and let us all know when you succeed !

[Nautilus05]

Those who object to the Thai Government rules should attempt to gain entry to the USA, Canada, Australia or New Zealand based on some mad cap "freelance" concept.

Come back and let us all know when you succeed !

Don't be so dense. That could easily be turned around to say try to get a retirement VISA in USA, Canada, Aus or NZ. Or try to get a spousal VISA or education VISA as easily as in Thailand. And so on.

It's not 1960 anymore, and both globalization and communication technology have taken its effects. Immigration laws just haven't yet caught up, but I'm quite certain they will sometime in the coming years.

[Soutpeel]

I'm in two minds re this as 1, - If Offshore oil workers and retirees can spend all their time in Thailand, why can't those wanting to work?; but on the other side of the coin as you've mentioned before you're open to any Tom, Dick and Harry with their laptop coming over.

But offshore oil workers are not working in Thailand, for the most part by virtue of the rotations they do most are working 28 day swings, therefore they are "tourists" on their time off a and those that are working Thai waters are required to have a Thai WP, this I do know as fact because I am one of them.

As regards retiree's they have to prove they have cash in the bank - THB 800k or the monthly pension coming in, so ok lets go down this line and say "on-liners" would be allowed in Thailand provided they can show an annual cash amount of say THB 1.0 million in the bank to immigration and pay income tax at say 35-40% on their incomes derived from on-line activites while operating their business in Thailand and from that you will get a long stay visa in Thailand based on "business"...is this viable ?

[TomTom55]

Not considering the ongoing argument between a couple of members which is not to do with me, most of the other posts have been full of anxed, bitterness and what I assume to be old men living in the past. I have had some great help and some kind words, often blunt but blunt in the right way, so thanks to those of you who know who you are

I have come to some conclusions with regards to starting a business thanks to the PMs and I know it is going to take a lot of time and effort on my part due to my personal situation. I personally do find that here the government have made it too hard for people to start up a business, if I need to employ 4 Thai nationals for example, what are they going to do for my online business? Open my laptop, bring me coffee (which I don't drink anyway), advise me on what I have a vast amount of knowledge anyway? It is ridiculous. Online businesses are here and here to stay, they are a great way to work and to buy services, so those of you stuck in the past, grow up (yes that maybe hard considering your age and stubbornness I know).

About the alcohol and drug abuse, yes I have had issues with both in the past, but I have drank twice in the past month, one of those times being my girlfriends birthday and drugs, no I only use medication for a diagnosed disorder now. A lot of you cannot accept change in more ways than one, change is inevitable in one way or another. So if you could, those of you up there on your high horses, get down and pipe down maybe?

[TomTom55]

I'm in two minds re this as 1, - If Offshore oil workers and retirees can spend all their time in Thailand, why can't those wanting to work?; but on the other side of the coin as you've mentioned before you're open to any Tom, Dick and Harry with their laptop coming over.

But offshore oil workers are not working in Thailand, for the most part by virtue of the rotations they do most are working 28 day swings, therefore they are "tourists" on their time off a and those that are working Thai waters are required to have a Thai WP, this I do know as fact because I am one of them.

As regards retiree's they have to prove they have cash in the bank - THB 800k or the monthly pension coming in, so ok lets go down this line and say "on-liners" would be allowed in Thailand provided they can show an annual cash amount of say THB 1.0 million in the bank to immigration and pay income tax at say 35-40% on their incomes derived from on-line activites while operating their business in Thailand and from that you will get a long stay visa in Thailand based on "business"...is this viable ?

I would consider this to be 90% viable yes, maybe the tax is a little too high IMO. The other issue would be (as I have pointed out) hiring Thai nationals..

[Hawkman]

I'm in two minds re this as 1, - If Offshore oil workers and retirees can spend all their time in Thailand, why can't those wanting to work?; but on the other side of the coin as you've mentioned before you're open to any Tom, Dick and Harry with their laptop coming over.

But offshore oil workers are not working in Thailand, for the most part by virtue of the rotations they do most are working 28 day swings, therefore they are "tourists" on their time off a and those that are working Thai waters are required to have a Thai WP, this I do know as fact because I am one of them.

As regards retiree's they have to prove they have cash in the bank - THB 800k or the monthly pension coming in, so ok lets go down this line and say "on-liners" would be allowed in Thailand provided they can show an annual cash amount of say THB 1.0 million in the bank to immigration and pay income tax at say 35-40% on their incomes derived from on-line activites while operating their business in Thailand and from that you will get a long stay visa in Thailand based on "business"...is this viable ?

That seems a good idea; and a viable option; though that tax would be probably a bit too high to be fair; should be with the same rate tax as other places for self employed work.

That's what we arguing for, for labor laws globally to recognise the change in the world in the way people work.

[JLCrab]

The reasoning of the Thai labor laws regarding online graphics design and other computer related work is really quite simple: If there is such work to be done IN Thailand, then we want it to be done by all those Thai students who are graduating from universities with degrees in computer science and other disciplines.

Well all my clients are ex-Thailand, you say. They say:

1) There are many Thai-owned graphics design businesses in Thailand that deal with or act as sub-contractors for clients that are ex-Thailand

2) If YOU as a non-Thai want to work for clients that are not in Thailand, no problem. Do it some place OTHER than Thailand.

[Soutpeel]

I'm in two minds re this as 1, - If Offshore oil workers and retirees can spend all their time in Thailand, why can't those wanting to work?; but on the other side of the coin as you've mentioned before you're open to any Tom, Dick and Harry with their laptop coming over.

But offshore oil workers are not working in Thailand, for the most part by virtue of the rotations they do most are working 28 day swings, therefore they are "tourists" on their time off a and those that are working Thai waters are required to have a Thai WP, this I do know as fact because I am one of them.

As regards retiree's they have to prove they have cash in the bank - THB 800k or the monthly pension coming in, so ok lets go down this line and say "on-liners" would be allowed in Thailand provided they can show an annual cash amount of say THB 1.0 million in the bank to immigration and pay income tax at say 35-40% on their incomes derived from on-line activites while operating their business in Thailand and from that you will get a long stay visa in Thailand based on "business"...is this viable ?

That seems a good idea; and a viable option; though that tax would be probably a bit too high to be fair; should be with the same rate tax as other places for self employed work.

That's what we arguing for, for labor laws globally to recognise the change in the world in the way people work.

35%-40% a bit to high to be fair.... ...in this this hypothetic situation...your being asked to show UD$30,000 in an account, not have to employ any Thai nationals and get a long stay visa/extension of stay and permission to work run a business in Thailand...but 35-40% tax rate is too much..!!!!

quite frankly you boys would be trying to take the p*ss...suppose you would like Thai goverment subsidised medical insurance thrown in as well...

[JLCrab]

Maybe the Thailand Department of Labour would be glad to hear of all these helpful suggestions as to how they might revise their antiquated system. Their contact info is here:

http://www.labour.go.th/en/index.php/contact/2011-06-03-07-15-48

[PoodMaiDai]

If the answer is yes, how the hell would that work in this backwards country?

I am curious to know why the OP thinks Thailand is backwards because as a non-national of Thailand they want him:

1. to get an appropriate visa/WP to operate a Thai business

2. Pay taxes in Thailand for operating a business from Thailand

Well that depends.

Suppose a businessman goes to Bangkok for a conference. He obviously goes to that conference as a tourist, is it wouldn't make sense to get a work visa to spend 2 or 3 days here while at a business conference. While he is staying in his 5 star hotel, he obviously will check his work emails (work), possibly make a conference call or two (work), and maybe actually complete a few tasks he brought with him (work). Is this man subject to then pay Thailand for the money her earned during his time in the country? And is this man breaking the law for opening work emails while in his hotel room? If the answer is yes to either of those, this is a backwards country.

A graphic designer working from his private room (or hotel) who is paid by foreign companies to a foreign bank account, is getting ripped in the bum if he has to pay Thailand tax on that income for no other reason than he is sitting in Thailand at the time. However, if that money is paid to a Thai bank, then yes, I would say it makes sense Thailand would want to steal some of it, as would any country.

I don't know the law on this, I'm just speaking from a logical viewpoint. Given what I do know of Thailand, they would in fact arrest the businessman if they could for no other reason than to fleece him for as much money possible.

Edited May 12, 2013 by PoodMaiDai

[PoodMaiDai]

If the answer is yes, how the hell would that work in this backwards country?

I am curious to know why the OP thinks Thailand is backwards because as a non-national of Thailand they want him:

1. to get an appropriate visa/WP to operate a Thai business

2. Pay taxes in Thailand for operating a business from Thailand

Well that depends.

Suppose a businessman goes to Bangkok for a conference. He obviously goes to that conference as a tourist, is it wouldn't make sense to get a work visa to spend 2 or 3 days here while at a business conference. While he is staying in his 5 star hotel, he obviously will check his work emails (work), possibly make a conference call or two (work), and maybe actually complete a few tasks he brought with him (work). Is this man subject to then pay Thailand for the money her earned during his time in the country? And is this man breaking the law for opening work emails while in his hotel room? If the answer is yes to either of those, this is a backwards country.

A graphic designer working from his private room (or hotel) who is paid by foreign companies to a foreign bank account, is getting ripped in the bum if he has to pay Thailand tax on that income for no other reason than he is sitting in Thailand at the time. However, if that money is paid to a Thai bank, then yes, I would say it makes sense Thailand would want to steal some of it, as would any country.

I don't know the law on this, I'm just speaking from a logical viewpoint. Given what I do know of Thailand, they would in fact arrest the businessman if they could for no other reason than to fleece him for as much money possible.

BTW... I know you can't work in Thailand at all without a work permit, or even play music for tips. It was a post based on logic, not reality. However, I do not know the details of the law.

[rwdrwdrwd]

Let us as the question ----

What can a non degree qualified "Graphic Designer" expect to earn via the internet ? ----800.000 pa( The amount a retiree has to show) or 400,000 pa, the amount a man married to a Thai has to show for an extension of stay ?

Four to six times the higher number if they are busy enough, going rate for a contract designer in the UK is £300 a day and it's possible to wrangle remote terms at the same rate if you have enough demonstrable experience.

The rate for design (and development in fact) is obtainable purely upon portfolio and testimonials, clients are interested in examples not paperwork. Freelancing by it's nature means it's difficult to fill every day, every week, all year long, and it is harder still for a purely remote worker, however B800k is pretty easy if you have a couple of regular clients - 80 days at £200 does it.

Edited May 12, 2013 by rwdrwdrwd

[JLCrab]

From Post #52 above: It was a post based on logic, not reality.

Reality's a bummer, ain't it?

[Soutpeel]

If the answer is yes, how the hell would that work in this backwards country?

I am curious to know why the OP thinks Thailand is backwards because as a non-national of Thailand they want him:

1. to get an appropriate visa/WP to operate a Thai business

2. Pay taxes in Thailand for operating a business from Thailand

Well that depends.

Suppose a businessman goes to Bangkok for a conference. He obviously goes to that conference as a tourist, is it wouldn't make sense to get a work visa to spend 2 or 3 days here while at a business conference. While he is staying in his 5 star hotel, he obviously will check his work emails (work), possibly make a conference call or two (work), and maybe actually complete a few tasks he brought with him (work). Is this man subject to then pay Thailand for the money her earned during his time in the country? And is this man breaking the law for opening work emails while in his hotel room? If the answer is yes to either of those, this is a backwards country.

A graphic designer working from his private room (or hotel) who is paid by foreign companies to a foreign bank account, is getting ripped in the bum if he has to pay Thailand tax on that income for no other reason than he is sitting in Thailand at the time. However, if that money is paid to a Thai bank, then yes, I would say it makes sense Thailand would want to steal some of it, as would any country.

I don't know the law on this, I'm just speaking from a logical viewpoint. Given what I do know of Thailand, they would in fact arrest the businessman if they could for no other reason than to fleece him for as much money possible.

BTW... I know you can't work in Thailand at all without a work permit, or even play music for tips. It was a post based on logic, not reality. However, I do not know the details of the law.

Logic says in the case of the business man attending the conference, he gets a temporary WP which is good for 14 days and then no dispute as to whether he is legal or not....this is what the temporary WP is for...

[TomTom55]

If the answer is yes, how the hell would that work in this backwards country?

I am curious to know why the OP thinks Thailand is backwards because as a non-national of Thailand they want him:

1. to get an appropriate visa/WP to operate a Thai business

2. Pay taxes in Thailand for operating a business from Thailand

Well that depends.

Suppose a businessman goes to Bangkok for a conference. He obviously goes to that conference as a tourist, is it wouldn't make sense to get a work visa to spend 2 or 3 days here while at a business conference. While he is staying in his 5 star hotel, he obviously will check his work emails (work), possibly make a conference call or two (work), and maybe actually complete a few tasks he brought with him (work). Is this man subject to then pay Thailand for the money her earned during his time in the country? And is this man breaking the law for opening work emails while in his hotel room? If the answer is yes to either of those, this is a backwards country.

A graphic designer working from his private room (or hotel) who is paid by foreign companies to a foreign bank account, is getting ripped in the bum if he has to pay Thailand tax on that income for no other reason than he is sitting in Thailand at the time. However, if that money is paid to a Thai bank, then yes, I would say it makes sense Thailand would want to steal some of it, as would any country.

I don't know the law on this, I'm just speaking from a logical viewpoint. Given what I do know of Thailand, they would in fact arrest the businessman if they could for no other reason than to fleece him for as much money possible.

BTW... I know you can't work in Thailand at all without a work permit, or even play music for tips. It was a post based on logic, not reality. However, I do not know the details of the law.

Logic says in the case of the business man attending the conference, he gets a temporary WP which is good for 14 days and then no dispute as to whether he is legal or not....this is what the temporary WP is for...

5 star post, some logic in this forum is a rarity. But yes lets say hypothetically speaking I was a graphic designer and all of my clients were off shore, my earnings ran through a friends bank account in my home country and then western unioned to me monthly, that would be breaking the law? If I were then to have a website to advertise this service, would that be breaking the law furthermore, hypothetically speaking of course

This was @poodmaiDai by the way

Edited May 13, 2013 by TomTom55

[Mario2008]

The answer is that you are working in Thailand and thus need a work permit.

[Faran]

"Graphic Designers" are 10 a penny ! -- It is one of those soft "qualifications" like "Media Studies" which mean FA and are certainly no guarantee of employment in the real world !

Have you ever been employed as a "graphic designer" ? Or are you living in a make believe world ?

Failing to make a career in the West is a certain guarantee of failure in the East !

My advice is to stop dreaming. go home and WORK ----

Slopping around in Thailand thinking you can earn living whilst existing on an Ed Visa marks you out -----Work permits are not available to people on Ed visas !

You , I suspect are one of many who attempt to circumvent the Thai authorities "rules" to your own advantage -----hence your comment about the country being "backward" because the rules do not fit your purpose.

Such a rude and offensive post! I don't know what world you live in, but with the emerging technologies and new media scenes, but Media Studies INCLUDING Graphic designing are pretty much 'real world' and pretty HARDCORE emerging qualifications! Unless you've been living under a rock of course.

Okay Tom's 'backward' rant was out of line but he has explained over and over again that he didn't mean it that way so let's just cut him some slack.

Tom honey I completely understand your situation and I hope days would come when Thailand would do legislation to make it more attractive place for young and aspiring entrepreneurs like you because we all have witnessed how those young startups with 'soft qualifications' have pretty much taken over the 'real world' economies. So whatever you do, do it legally and stay strong. Hugs

[Sceptict11]

Faran

I am sure you are a delightful and well meaning person.

You clearly did not like that post !

I am not offended because you know that it is truthful. The truth is sometimes difficult to accept.

I would suggest you do a little research in terms of the employability of those with "soft" qualifications.

Do not live in a dream world!

"Hard" qualifications in maths, science , physics , medicine, law, engineering etc, will virtually guarantee employment.

Those who opt for easier qualification will find life difficult. That is not to deny that some will find success.

Success however will not be found somewhere where a person can not read, write or speak the language and where legal working is virtually impossible.

Edited October 6, 2013 by Sceptict11

[harrry]

If the answer is yes, how the hell would that work in this backwards country?

I am curious to know why the OP thinks Thailand is backwards because as a non-national of Thailand they want him:

1. to get an appropriate visa/WP to operate a Thai business

2. Pay taxes in Thailand for operating a business from Thailand

Well that depends.

Suppose a businessman goes to Bangkok for a conference. He obviously goes to that conference as a tourist, is it wouldn't make sense to get a work visa to spend 2 or 3 days here while at a business conference. While he is staying in his 5 star hotel, he obviously will check his work emails (work), possibly make a conference call or two (work), and maybe actually complete a few tasks he brought with him (work). Is this man subject to then pay Thailand for the money her earned during his time in the country? And is this man breaking the law for opening work emails while in his hotel room? If the answer is yes to either of those, this is a backwards country.

A graphic designer working from his private room (or hotel) who is paid by foreign companies to a foreign bank account, is getting ripped in the bum if he has to pay Thailand tax on that income for no other reason than he is sitting in Thailand at the time. However, if that money is paid to a Thai bank, then yes, I would say it makes sense Thailand would want to steal some of it, as would any country.

I don't know the law on this, I'm just speaking from a logical viewpoint. Given what I do know of Thailand, they would in fact arrest the businessman if they could for no other reason than to fleece him for as much money possible.

If he attends a conference it is not legal to use a tourist visa. He must also obtain a short term work visa (which is relatively easy to obtain.)