Debit Card Fraud In Thailand ...bangkok Bank .....waste Of Time

[andypbr]

my wife recently had to take my 67 year old mother to kl as she wanted to stay with us for an extra month ,rather than let her travel alone she went with her , during their stay in kl my wife used her BANGKOK BANK DEBIT CARD 2 times, once in the airport inside kl and the other time at the petronis towers, on their return ,3 weeks later, just by chance my wife went to our local branch in koh phangan to put money in and update her book, to her shock there was 150 000 baht taken from her account over 3 days, questioning the bank she was laughed at and accused of taking the money, i have detailed cctv footage of my wife working in the resort during the time it was taken, the bank staff also told many people in the bank what had happened which suprised me also as i understand there is a confidentiality agreement between customer and bank , i managed to get to speak to the big chiefs in bkk and the answer was simple .....tuff xxxx live with it ,has any body had any experience with this and is there anything more i can do? i have spoken to my banks in the uk and they said the money should be returned, the bangkok bank said it was up to me to to do the investigation? they are a joke ...................help if you can

[joepattaya1961]

Won't be easy. Gather all possible evidence of you and your wife not having used the card at a specific time and get a lawyer.

A bit of "mustard after the meal": Kasikorn sends me an SMS every time the debit card is is used.

A few days ago I received 2 SMS's on one transaction. Phoned the bank and they told me: Only one time the money was withdrawn from my account. Works great.

But again in your case........good luck.

[Soutpeel]

Won't be easy. Gather all possible evidence of you and your wife not having used the card at a specific time and get a lawyer.

A bit of "mustard after the meal": Kasikorn sends me an SMS every time the debit card is is used.

A few days ago I received 2 SMS's on one transaction. Phoned the bank and they told me: Only one time the money was withdrawn from my account. Works great.

But again in your case........good luck.

Yeap got the same on both my ATM card and credit card....

I would be curious to know what the bank statement says

not accusing anybody of anything, but sure your Mrs hasnt got consfused drawing out ringett amounts and maybe did draw too much ?...could be an innocent mistake...I have done it myself in some currencies...ie thought I was drawing US$100 and ended up withdrawing US$ 1000 cos I was not paying attention

further one assumes the whole account was cleaned out then ?, usually people scamming accounts dont leave you with any cash left...they keep hitting it until its empty

Edited May 8, 2013 by Soutpeel

[Fgis]

The joke is the one using any debit or credit card in Thailand or in Malaysia...

[wooloomooloo]

Entertaining first post, andy. Better luck next time.

[Trembly]

There is a consumer protection TV show on in Thailand. I can't remember what channel it's on.

[pmarlin]

I know this is after the fact, but maybe a new account for just atm use or debit card use would be wise. Just fund it in small amounts for daily use.

[thequietman]

Try this.................. http://www.ocpb.go.th/

Regards.

[andypbr]

thanks for the input guys, the card was obviously copied in malasia and then used in hat yai ,they got the suspect on cctv but cant do anything about it , a lesson learned but just keep your eyes open people

[geriatrickid]

thanks for the input guys, the card was obviously copied in malasia and then used in hat yai ,they got the suspect on cctv but cant do anything about it , a lesson learned but just keep your eyes open people

And there is an example of how insurgent groups obtain funding.

It's right of the play book.

[crazygreg44]

Lesson learned should be such - never pay with your credit or debit card in shops & hotels/resorts & fueling stations. Only use ATM , withdraw cash and pay with cash.

It minimizes the risk that someone whom you hand over your card copies the details and goes on a shopping spree,

as for this they don't need your PIN . . only your card details and the CVC number on the back.

It also helps to prevent politics and governments from abandoning money and shifting all buying&selling to computerized methods. This would be the end of a printed money bill. This is one of the last freedoms left to us in a free world.

[MrWorldwide]

The joke is the one using any debit or credit card in Thailand or in Malaysia...

Right, cause serious players like yourself roll with large sums of cash everywhere you go, right ? One day, when your mum let's you leave the house, you will come to the realisation that such a strategy has it's own downsides.

[MrWorldwide]

Lesson learned should be such - never pay with your credit or debit card in shops & hotels/resorts & fueling stations. Only use ATM , withdraw cash and pay with cash.

It minimizes the risk that someone whom you hand over your card copies the details and goes on a shopping spree,

as for this they don't need your PIN . . only your card details and the CVC number on the back.

It also helps to prevent politics and governments from abandoning money and shifting all buying&selling to computerized methods. This would be the end of a printed money bill. This is one of the last freedoms left to us in a free world.

Right - how about high-end boutiques in Siam Paragon ? Or high-class hookers in Jakarta ?

[crazygreg44]

Lesson learned should be such - never pay with your credit or debit card in shops & hotels/resorts & fueling stations. Only use ATM , withdraw cash and pay with cash.

It minimizes the risk that someone whom you hand over your card copies the details and goes on a shopping spree,

as for this they don't need your PIN . . only your card details and the CVC number on the back.

It also helps to prevent politics and governments from abandoning money and shifting all buying&selling to computerized methods. This would be the end of a printed money bill. This is one of the last freedoms left to us in a free world.

Right - how about high-end boutiques in Siam Paragon ? Or high-class hookers in Jakarta ?

It all depends on who you think you can trust. I would not make a big difference between a high-end shop clerk to a lesser-high shop attendant. They all are liable to commit fraud with your card.

In Siam Paragon there are ATM at every corner, what you think they are for? Withdraw your cash and pay with cash. It saves you on credit card usage fees (1.5 -2.5 % of the sum payable) as well as minimizing the chance of fraud.

And a high class hooker in Jakarta would be THE LAST PERSON ON EARTH I WOULD HAND OVER MY CREDIT CARD !!!!

Edited May 9, 2013 by crazygreg44

[GreenSnapper]

If you use a credit card in Asia, use only one from a Farang bank which has consumer protection. Never use a Thai card, thai banks don't protect you and you are on your own.

Best advice, pay only cash you got from an ATM. But check the ATM for manipulation each time.

[Pib]

Remember, Consumer Protection on Thai credit and debit cards (regardless of the issuing Thai bank) practically does not exist. Sure, there are some weak Consumer Protection laws on the books but in reality they offer little protection especially when cards are stolen, numbers skimmed, etc. Since Thai consumer protection laws are weak at best relating to financial products like credit/debit cards, a person is pretty much at the mercy of the issuing bank's policies on credit and debit cards...and while the banks may use the Consumer Protection phrase in the card Terms & Conditions (T&C), the T&C's are really written to protect the bank.

[Rimmer]

Libellous post removed

[davidst01]

I was a victim of 'card skimming' in K.L late last year using my aussie atm card. The theives scammed close to $2500 from my account and thankfully ANZ in sydney refunded my money.

What I have learnt from this stressful experience is that its very important to log onto your online banking (or ring your bank) 1 day after using your card when using it abroad. These dodgy theives are likely to try and retrieve money right away and at least you can cancel the card the following day if you do a check.

good luck with getting your money back in LOS

[chainarong]

thanks for the input guys, the card was obviously copied in malasia and then used in hat yai ,they got the suspect on cctv but cant do anything about it , a lesson learned but just keep your eyes open people

Malaysians seem very skilled in this area, they hit OZ ATM's in Perth and Brisbane, end of last year, nice Xmas New year present , unfortunately for them the AFP where waiting for them to board the jet back to Malaysia, Malaysian's have done this a few times over the past five years, so moral of story, don't trust Malaysians / Thai's with money.

[Pib]

Even "prepaid" debit cards....take a look at this Washington Post news story where hackers hacked into financial company servers in the U.S. and India, increased/eliminated the withdrawal limits while also getting the PINs, then in dozens of countries around the world, including Thailand, thieves started withdrawing money from ATMs.

[MrWorldwide]

thanks for the input guys, the card was obviously copied in malasia and then used in hat yai ,they got the suspect on cctv but cant do anything about it , a lesson learned but just keep your eyes open people

Malaysians seem very skilled in this area, they hit OZ ATM's in Perth and Brisbane, end of last year, nice Xmas New year present , unfortunately for them the AFP where waiting for them to board the jet back to Malaysia, Malaysian's have done this a few times over the past five years, so moral of story, don't trust Malaysians / Thai's with money.

Right, cause Australian nationals would never commit a crime like this, would they ? Please get a clue and check your racist bullshit at the door - scumbags can be found in every city and town in this country and you know it.

[Pib]

I prefer to send money in response to some of those nice Nigerian-type scam emails I periodically get.

[emanphoto]

I noted this story today. Thailand is included in the countries affected.

How Cybercriminals Stole $40 Million From ATMs Worldwide In Just 10 Hours

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-hackers-stole-44-million-from-atms-2013-5?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+businessinsider+%28Business+Insider%29

[Donnie Brasco]

The joke is the one using any debit or credit card in Thailand or in Malaysia...

Right, cause serious players like yourself roll with large sums of cash everywhere you go, right ? One day, when your mum let's you leave the house, you will come to the realisation that such a strategy has it's own downsides.

Sorry Mr. Worldwide but for banking and finance purposes they play at it and muck around with the trappings but Thai banks are heavily scrutinized. Thailand, and, to a lesser degree, Malaysia are not really considered legitimate banking environments.

A few years ago, Barclays and a few other big players simply refused to transact here. The country is on a lot of watch lists.

Embassy workers I know always carry an evening's cash. Expats do the same. Credit card use in Thai restaurants and bars is a risk.

Assuming that you shop in the daylight for more expensive items like fridges and TV's I don't know why you'd ever need anything more than 5K and an ATM card and that without prepaid credit privileges. No debit cards. No international credit card withdrawals (which have to be about the stoopidest and most imprudent plays in the long list of cocooning maneuvers visitors think as same " just like home".

This isn't "home".

Incidentally, where do you go that you'd need more than 5k?

[cheeryble]

It sounds like you can put together a good case in court.

I would include a bundle of stats about known debit card scamming.

In fact I would outline a case and send as a package to head office and the compliance officer at BKKBank first.

BBK bank should know it would be extremely expensive for all banks if people didn't use ATM machines.

Lower level management might not realise this, so go up the food chain.

Can you see a reason they justify non payment with?

Edited May 12, 2013 by cheeryble

[lomatopo]

There have been several first-hand accounts of skimming, and successful recovery, albeit wholly here in Thailand.

The account owner needed to work with the bank to determine which ATM was used - even if it was another bank's ATM, then file a police report in that jurisdiction to get the ATM video, then file a police report in the bank's central location district, get those police to acknowledge the fraud, then present that to the bank. It was a complex procedure, and took many, many months but the funds were replaced, eventually.

Since this happened in Hat Yai the same process could conceivably be used?

I tried to find the relevant blog, but could not. It may be in some TV threads.

Edited May 12, 2013 by lomatopo

[pault17]

How debit cards work (with Kasikorn bank):

Yesterday I had to make a payment and used me debit card. Rigth after the vendor had entered the amount I got an SMS from Kasikornbank that it was already deducted from my account! I hadn't signed the payment slip yet, worse, it was still printing ha ha.

[4evermaat]

Why use ATM and loose money? go in to the bank use the smart ship on your Bankcard, transfer money true TelexTransfer,.... Better exchange and no 180thb :-)

I do this for years now ;-)

how do you do this? Which bank are you using?

There have been several first-hand accounts of skimming, and successful recovery, albeit wholly here in Thailand.

The account owner needed to work with the bank to determine which ATM was used - even if it was another bank's ATM, then file a police report in that jurisdiction to get the ATM video, then file a police report in the bank's central location district, get those police to acknowledge the fraud, then present that to the bank. It was a complex procedure, and took many, many months but the funds were replaced, eventually.

Since this happened in Hat Yai the same process could conceivably be used?

I tried to find the relevant blog, but could not. It may be in some TV threads.

There are an equal amount if not greater threads of people who performed similar diligence and after SEVENral months from initiating the process, the Thai bank did NOT issue a refund. I'm not suggesting that people don't try, but the safer bet is to acknowledge that Thai banks put a large part of the consumer protection responsibility in the hands of the consumer. So any non-bank errors are likely to result in a loss of funds. The user must strategically safeguard their accounts (open a second account, set atm/purchase limits, set credit card limits, use SMS alerts, use trusted merchants, etc)

As one welcome pamphlet says when you get an ordered debit card from bangkok bank, "....treat your debit card as if it were cash"

[Pib]

How debit cards work (with Kasikorn bank):

Yesterday I had to make a payment and used me debit card. Rigth after the vendor had entered the amount I got an SMS from Kasikornbank that it was already deducted from my account! I hadn't signed the payment slip yet, worse, it was still printing ha ha.

That the way many debit and credit cards work....for some you may need to setup this notification...for others it happens automatically. I have a U.S. bank issued/Captial One MasterCard credit card (no foreign transaction fee) that I use all the time to buy things in Thailand like at Lotus, Big C, gas station, etc. Within about 10 seconds of the card being swiped by the checkout clerk I get an email saying a transaction in the amount of XXXX has just occurred....not uncommon for me to get the email notice on my smartphone before the clerk hands me the receipt for my signature.

[ianguygil]

At this time with Bangkok Bank credit cards you get SMS alerts automatically

For Debit Cards you need to setup the Alerts at the ATM at this time. But that is very easy to do. Thanks