Why Are You Even Here? The Surprising Attitudes of Some Expats in Thailand

[webfact]

Child sex ring not in Thai plan, court hears
by: Kaitlyn Offer

THREE Perth pedophiles plotted in prison to set up a doll-making business in Thailand so they could access children, a court has heard.

TWO convicted pedophiles were taped joking about their sexual interest in children in phone recordings played to a Supreme Court jury this morning.

THREE convicted pedophiles wanted to go to Thailand to "start a new life" - not set up a child sex ring, the Supreme Court was told today.

Mark Pendleton, 53, and Kenneth Bishop, 74, are on trial in the Supreme Court after pleading not guilty to conspiring to have sex with a child under 16 outside Australia.

The two met while serving prison sentences along with a third alleged conspirator and fellow sex offender Robert Gordon Cummins.

It is alleged that while the three were in prison between 2006 and 2008, they hatched a plan to set up a doll-making business in Thailand as a front for a child abuse ring.

Prosecutors allege the business would involve the men setting up in rural northern Thailand and employing poor, unsophisticated women from villages to make traditional dress dolls and gain access to their children.

Pendleton and Bishop argue there was no such plan to offend in Thailand, rather they wanted to start a new life there, however Cummins has pleaded guilty to the same charges.

Cummins is also the first witness to give evidence in the Supreme Court trial, which started

Full story: http://www.perthnow.com.au/breaking-news/child-sex-ring-not-in-thai-plan-court-hears/story-e6frfkp9-1226637856747

-- Perth Now 2013-05-09

[laurentbkk]

DISGUSTING

[brd199]

The two met while serving prison sentences along with a third alleged conspirator and fellow sex offender Robert Gordon Cummins.

Thailand more accepting of crimes: paedophile
The West Australian May 8, 2013, 5:47 pm

Robert Gordon Cummins.

Convicted paedophiles who allegedly conspired to commit child sex offences in Thailand believed people there would be more accepting of their criminal past than in Australia, a Perth court has been told. Robert Gordon Cummins, 47, today gave his third day of evidence in the Supreme Court trial of Mark Pendleton and Kenneth William Bishop.

Cummins, who received a discounted sentence after he pleaded guilty and agreed to cooperate with authorities, told the court he contacted a number of Thai women through dating website’s as part of the trio’s alleged conspiracy. He admitted he disclosed his past convictions for child sex offences to some of the women to test how the men would be “accepted” in Thailand. “We believed they’d be more accepting in that society that over here,” he told the court.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/wa/17072716/thailand-more-accepting-of-crimes-paedophile/

[brd199]

DISGUSTING

Perth Now - July 23, 2012

Former school teacher Mark Pendleton was due to be released in March 2011 after serving 11 years of a 16-year sentence for sexually assaulting 11 girls from 1995 to 2000, but he was ordered to remain behind bars to face the fresh charges.

Kenneth Bishop, a former British resident, is serving 16 years in jail after pleading guilty in 2002 to 44 counts of sexually penetrating girls aged 12 to 15.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/dpps-lapse-may-see-pedophile-freed/story-e6frg12l-1226433059516

[bobl]

Am I the only one confused by this? Did a crime actually take place or was only talked about?

Notwithstanding my thoughts on how pedophiles should be dealt with (which would earn me an instant ban if aired here), are we now heading down the road toward thought crimes?

[JetsetBkk]

Am I the only one confused by this? Did a crime actually take place or was only talked about?

Notwithstanding my thoughts on how pedophiles should be dealt with (which would earn me an instant ban if aired here), are we now heading down the road toward thought crimes?

Conspiracy to commit a crime is a crime in some countries, I believe.

[Khun Watchaporn]

Am I the only one confused by this? Did a crime actually take place or was only talked about?

talking about it to an extent of planning it = conspiracy to commit said crime.

Just look at the amount of muslim terrorists doing decades/centuries in US prisons for talking about things with undercover op's who under no circumstance whatsoever entrapped them.

[itchybum]

Yeah, I have a bit of a problem with entrapment.

All for them bieng locked away in hell for a day over their lifespan, but, that show in the US which setup people chatting online and then meeting up with possible underage sex offenders, is pushing the limits.

From the view that who is to know if that person would actually go through with it, have second thoughts and say sorry, changed my mind etc. Instead his life is ruined forever.

It's a fine line for sure.

[eezergood]

Am I the only one confused by this? Did a crime actually take place or was only talked about?

Notwithstanding my thoughts on how pedophiles should be dealt with (which would earn me an instant ban if aired here), are we now heading down the road toward thought crimes?

Monority report territory!

[brd199]

Former school teacher Mark Pendleton

a 16-year sentence for sexually assaulting 11 girls from 1995 to 2000

Kenneth Bishop, a former British resident

serving 16 years in jail after pleading guilty in 2002 to 44 counts of sexually penetrating girls aged 12 to 15.

Yeah, I have a bit of a problem with entrapment.

All for them bieng locked away in hell for a day over their lifespan

I don't have a problem with them being locked away for a long for the hell they've caused for many others for many, many days.

[chainarong]

Am I the only one confused by this? Did a crime actually take place or was only talked about?

Notwithstanding my thoughts on how pedophiles should be dealt with (which would earn me an instant ban if aired here), are we now heading down the road toward thought crimes?

It never took place, just talked about , on the statute books planning is an offence when criminal activity is involved, includes terrorism, murder ,holdups Paedophilia, anything that is being planed to commit a crime is an offence in OZ

[Keanuv]

As an Australian living in Thailand, I am not only disgusted, but ashamed to hear about this coming from Australians. Those sick people should stay in Australian prisons, and never come out, especially not be able to come into Thailand. Idiots anyway if they believe they could get in with their criminal record.

[chainarong]

As an Australian living in Thailand, I am not only disgusted, but ashamed to hear about this coming from Australians. Those sick people should stay in Australian prisons, and never come out, especially not be able to come into Thailand. Idiots anyway if they believe they could get in with their criminal record.

Hear hear ,W.A. my state to, they'll get their just deserts inside ,over the next 15 /25 years. You betcha.

[itchybum]

As an Australian living in Thailand, I am not only disgusted, but ashamed to hear about this coming from Australians. Those sick people should stay in Australian prisons, and never come out, especially not be able to come into Thailand. Idiots anyway if they believe they could get in with their criminal record.

Why couldn't they?

I do not recall ever being asked about a crim history on the plane over my first time, not that I have one.

Plenty of crims come to thailand with open arms.

[Keanuv]

As an Australian living in Thailand, I am not only disgusted, but ashamed to hear about this coming from Australians. Those sick people should stay in Australian prisons, and never come out, especially not be able to come into Thailand. Idiots anyway if they believe they could get in with their criminal record.

Why couldn't they?

I do not recall ever being asked about a crim history on the plane over my first time, not that I have one.

Plenty of crims come to thailand with open arms.

My bad. For some reason I thought that Thailand didn't give visas to those with a criminal record. On second thought it doesn't make sense with all the foreigner criminals down in Pattaya.

[Morden]

As an Australian living in Thailand, I am not only disgusted, but ashamed to hear about this coming from Australians. Those sick people should stay in Australian prisons, and never come out, especially not be able to come into Thailand. Idiots anyway if they believe they could get in with their criminal record.

Why couldn't they?

I do not recall ever being asked about a crim history on the plane over my first time, not that I have one.

Plenty of crims come to thailand with open arms.

My bad. For some reason I thought that Thailand didn't give visas to those with a criminal record. On second thought it doesn't make sense with all the foreigner criminals down in Pattaya.

People with past prison sentences aren't eligible for a visa to live in Thailand. However, the question isn't asked and, as far as I know, there are few checks made on applications.

[Khun Watchaporn]

As an Australian living in Thailand, I am not only disgusted, but ashamed to hear about this coming from Australians. Those sick people should stay in Australian prisons, and never come out, especially not be able to come into Thailand. Idiots anyway if they believe they could get in with their criminal record.

Hear hear ,W.A. my state to, they'll get their just deserts inside ,over the next 15 /25 years. You betcha.

Really?

Both have already been in prison there for 11 years. They seem fine.

[Lost In Translation 555]

People like this are clearly a danger to society and therefore should remain in prison. Sadly Thailand let's virtually anyone in, I know someone who got a ten year sentence was denied entry to Australia and the US but Thailand no problem. I think Thailand looks more at the money than the character as it would not be that costly to ask long term foreigners to produce Police reports from their home country. Why else would they not check, money.

[Suradit69]

As an Australian living in Thailand, I am not only disgusted, but ashamed to hear about this coming from Australians. Those sick people should stay in Australian prisons, and never come out, especially not be able to come into Thailand. Idiots anyway if they believe they could get in with their criminal record.

"As an Australian living in Thailand, I am not only disgusted, but ashamed ..."

Totally understand how you feel, but it does underline that "group blame" is pointless. There are creepy Australians, but it's hardly an attribute of Australians generally. There are violent Muslims who misuse their religion to justify terrorism, but it doesn't mean all Muslims advocate violence. And, more to the point on Thai Visa, there are undoubtedly dishonest or corrupt or immoral or less-than-brilliant Thais who often figure in TV "new" reports, but the rush to generalize those attributes to all Thais is just baseless bigotry that satisfies some pre-existing prejudices.

These guys in this news piece are beneath contempt, but they don't exemplify Australians any more than Gary Glitter or

Sir James Wilson Vincent Savile OBE KCSG (aka Jimmy Savile) represent the average Brit or some Walking Street mafia-type is typical of most Thais.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Suradit69

[Travel2003]

People like this are clearly a danger to society and therefore should remain in prison. Sadly Thailand let's virtually anyone in, I know someone who got a ten year sentence was denied entry to Australia and the US but Thailand no problem. I think Thailand looks more at the money than the character as it would not be that costly to ask long term foreigners to produce Police reports from their home country. Why else would they not check, money.

When I show my passport at immigration, they see my nationality and know I can get a 30 days entry stamp.

Nothing about money, or my previous 47 1/2 years in prison.

It is about which nationalities can enter without a visa.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Travel2003

[Morden]

Am I the only one confused by this? Did a crime actually take place or was only talked about?

Notwithstanding my thoughts on how pedophiles should be dealt with (which would earn me an instant ban if aired here), are we now heading down the road toward thought crimes?

Exactly....commiting the crime will become irrelevant..

Do you think that they should be allowed to abuse children before being arrested?

[chainarong]

As an Australian living in Thailand, I am not only disgusted, but ashamed to hear about this coming from Australians. Those sick people should stay in Australian prisons, and never come out, especially not be able to come into Thailand. Idiots anyway if they believe they could get in with their criminal record.

Hear hear ,W.A. my state to, they'll get their just deserts inside ,over the next 15 /25 years. You betcha.

Really?

Both have already been in prison there for 11 years. They seem fine.

Because they are under protection 24 /7, the last Paedophile who slipped up,(Bad Mistake) is now a paraplegic

[Lost In Translation 555]

People like this are clearly a danger to society and therefore should remain in prison. Sadly Thailand let's virtually anyone in, I know someone who got a ten year sentence was denied entry to Australia and the US but Thailand no problem. I think Thailand looks more at the money than the character as it would not be that costly to ask long term foreigners to produce Police reports from their home country. Why else would they not check, money.

When I show my passport at immigration, they see my nationality and know I can get a 30 days entry stamp.

Nothing about money, or my previous 47 1/2 years in prison.

It is about which nationalities can enter without a visa.

Travel2003 I am talking about the money people spend when in Thaland, buying houses, setting up businesses etc also there are very few restrictions bringing large sums of money into Thailand or spending it, unlike in many other countries. The 30 day entry you refer to is a Visa Waiver stamp, long term Visas are charged for.

[Soutpeel]

Sir James Wilson Vincent Savile OBE KCSG (aka Jimmy Savile) represent the average Brit or some Walking Street mafia-type is typical of most Thais.

these two may not represent the average Brit, but pretty sure they are representative the average BBC employee...

Woops did I just say that ?...

[user786895]

Am I the only one confused by this? Did a crime actually take place or was only talked about?

Notwithstanding my thoughts on how pedophiles should be dealt with (which would earn me an instant ban if aired here), are we now heading down the road toward thought crimes?

The actual crime did not take place because there were and still are in prison, however, they conspired to commit these acts upon release and a necessary element to make these 'thoughts' into a crime i.e. a conspiracy, was the writing to women in northern Thailand

[chainarong]

Am I the only one confused by this? Did a crime actually take place or was only talked about?

Notwithstanding my thoughts on how pedophiles should be dealt with (which would earn me an instant ban if aired here), are we now heading down the road toward thought crimes?

Exactly....committing the crime will become irrelevant..

Do you think that they should be allowed to abuse children before being arrested?

Yeah like say the authorities know that terrorists are planning an attack on the stock exchanged NY, they know who they are, do they sit back and wait till it happens or do they go to the source and stop it before it happens, ya can't have it both ways.

[Lost In Translation 555]

Chainarong I can relate to people slipping up but I think that Paedos should have there Testes surgically removed therefore they have lower drive to commit the crime. Also I think it would deter some of them. Personally if I ran a country if the crime could be proved by several children who did not know each other I would impose the death sentence, these people do not change merely try and control themself if at all. They do not deserve to live in society or waste tax payers money.

[Travel2003]

People like this are clearly a danger to society and therefore should remain in prison. Sadly Thailand let's virtually anyone in, I know someone who got a ten year sentence was denied entry to Australia and the US but Thailand no problem. I think Thailand looks more at the money than the character as it would not be that costly to ask long term foreigners to produce Police reports from their home country. Why else would they not check, money.

When I show my passport at immigration, they see my nationality and know I can get a 30 days entry stamp.

Nothing about money, or my previous 47 1/2 years in prison.

It is about which nationalities can enter without a visa.

Travel2003 I am talking about the money people spend when in Thaland, buying houses, setting up businesses etc also there are very few restrictions bringing large sums of money into Thailand or spending it, unlike in many other countries. The 30 day entry you refer to is a Visa Waiver stamp, long term Visas are charged for.

If someone is wanted by Interpol I believe they will be arrested upon arrival Thailand, since scanning of passport will flag it.

I might be wrong here, maybe someone can tell?

[NomadJoe]

Am I the only one confused by this? Did a crime actually take place or was only talked about?

talking about it to an extent of planning it = conspiracy to commit said crime.

<snip>

Generally, conspiracy requires an "act in furtherance." Buying plane tickets would be enough. Normally for a crime to occur you must have an "act" coupled with "intent". With a lot of these new laws a lot of western countries have the intent actually becomes the act. Good to stop these guys, but it's a legally shaky ground and could set dangerous precedent. Lots of legal scholars have expressed concern about their legality, but most people don't care as long as it's in the name of saving children.

[Travel2003]

I believe most of us have "play planned" a robbery of a bank or gold vaults of some sort in our life.

I am NOT defending these individuals.