Is New Owner Responsible For Previous Condo Owner's Electricity Bill?

[NoshowJones]

Agreed- however, you are focusing on principle whereas am asking re process. My question remains: who is responsible for the electrical and water? Does the new owner have to pay those outstanding debts related to water and electricity? Does the lawyer's due diligence automatically include getting a certificate from the juristic person regarding outstanding maintenance fees? Or is it the seller's responsibility to get this certificate? Does one have to pay to get it? If there are outstanding fees, I am assuming they are paid before going to land office?

The building management office will produce the letter on request. No charge that I'm aware of. It has to be recent and in my experience the Land Office wont do the transfer without it. So presumably the current owner would have to sort out any debts before the letter is issued.

I dont think that many people would waste money on a lawyer when buying a condo in farang name here as there isn't really any checking to be done, apart from what the Land Office does. And even if there was some checking to be done the lawyer probably wouldn't do it anyway.

But maybe you like giving money to lawyers for nothing .....

Again, TIT

[laislica]

Well should you ever decide to live in Spain - it's easy there.

Everything is attached to the "thing", not the person.

Buy a second hand car and any outstanding parking tickets etc are yours.

Buy a property and any outstanding bills are yours, the mortgage too.

I did like the advise from WannabeBiker: As the common bills have to be paid, the honest owners are carrying the deadbeats.

Go and find out the ratio of owners who pay vs the deadbeats who let others pay their bills.

At my condo, about 25% are not current...

[lounger]

3000 baht annoys....

Get a life. 3000 on a motorcycle purchase or a trip to 711. But what of the condo cost !Strike me pink, why sweat the small stuff.

Are you the guy who collects the satang change 100 satang =1 bath and then found you couldn't use it?

I accept that the information is useful but as the poster said for all intents and purposes the purchase price does not include clean title to the utilities. What he is saying is 'just pay it.'....

[Dante99]

re: "why would anyone waste money on a lawyer"? I think the answer is evident in the contradictory responses I received to my questions in this thread. Purchasing a condo in Thailand as a farang is more complicated than it may appear on the surface. So... to "waste" 1% of the total cost of the condo for a lawyer is a small price to pay. I think if one selects the lawyer carefully then that 1% will be well worth it!

Actually Thailand is probably one of the easiest places to buy an existing condo in the entire world. If the paperwork isnt right the Land Office wont do the transfer, and what can a lawyer do apart from check that same paperwork? He might tell you about any legal problems with the building or the management, if he feels like it and if he even knows, but that isnt part of what he will be charging you for so he probably wont bother anyway.

You believe that? You believe that the land office people have never taken a gratuity for processing paperwork that was not correct? Why do you think they are not in the corruption game when most are?

[Dante99]

And so what are the implications of this for me as someone wanting to buy the condo? E.g. if They won't pay their fees then will I have to pay them in order to buy? Would I have to pay the previous owner's bill to have the electricity and water turned on?

Are you seriously suggesting that you want to buy a condo and the current owner wont pay an outstanding electricity bill to ensure the sale?

I find this hard to believe.

Let me clarify. I am interested in buying a condo. I have found a condo I'd like to buy. I am in the process of hiring a lawyer. I understand due diligence has to be conducted but I was wondering if due diligence needed to include checking on arrears related to electricity, water & condo fees etc. E.g., here in Canada, your water and electricity are in your own name. If I move into a unit (house or condo) and the previous owner has not paid the electrical or water-that has absolutely no impact on me as a new owner. because the previous account is not in my name. I am asking is this the case or not in Thailand? Re condo fees, the condo act where I live requires for sales and purchases of condo an estoppel certificate that indicates what fees if any are owned.

No it is not the same as in Canada. As Loptr stated, Assume Nothing. Do not assume that the information you get here is correct. Do not assume that a lawyer will help you. Do not assume the land office will do it correctly. Assume Nothing. Due diligence is 100% your responsibility and needs to include checking everything you can think of and everything that has been suggested and probably some other things too.

[how241]

The short answer, yes.

The longer (or shorter) answer is "no" for the reason that PattayaPhom gave.

I have seen the contrary, so as with everything in Thailand, your mileage will vary.

+1. You will need to pay or they will be cut off and you will pay MORE to get them turned back on. Pay them First, then fight or try to get the money back. Good Luck.

[axact]

3000 baht annoys....

Get a life. 3000 on a motorcycle purchase or a trip to 711. But what of the condo cost !Strike me pink, why sweat the small stuff.

Are you the guy who collects the satang change 100 satang =1 bath and then found you couldn't use it?

I accept that the information is useful but as the poster said for all intents and purposes the purchase price does not include clean title to the utilities. What he is saying is 'just pay it.'....

Where is 3000 baht mentioned ??? the only figure I see is $3000 so perhaps instead of calling the poster a skinflint perhaps you should A. apologise B. Read the thread properly before streaming in with nasty comments... oh and take your own advise and get a life,away from thaivisa preferably.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

You believe that? You believe that the land office people have never taken a gratuity for processing paperwork that was not correct?

What part of the paperwork could not be correct? And once the transfer is done and the chanote is in the buyer's name, what difference does it make and who would care anyway?

[konfuzed]

Ok, Done this recently...

Bought a condo where maintenance fees had not been paid. Previous owner came to agreement with bank that had been financing condo and condo management re maintenance fees before condo could be transferred. Took a while, but was managed eventually.

So, i would agree with above where you need the maintenance to be cleared out or at least an agreement reached on fees before transfer can occur...

Utilities such as electricity and water, i generally find (even at home where i just forget the damn bills) water and electric will give you 2 months-worth of bills before they actually cut you off (due date on second bill is where it gets dodgy). It's also relatively similar with the mobile phone and others...

If you're dealing with a reasonable real estate firm, they should hold your hand nicely throughout, but it is worth getting a lawyer to check...

good luck...

[hellodolly]

Debt free letter wont be issued unless maitenancr fees are paid. Rlectric and water are disonected after 7 days if bill not paid.

But that does not answer the question is the OP responsible for them. In other words even though ownership has changed is the bill still due to the new owner.

What else besides Maintenance fees is included in a debt free letter and is it a mandatory step in the selling/buying process?

[hellodolly]

I was under the impression that the condo management have to provide a letter to the land office, stating all outstanding fees have been paid by the current owner, before the land office will register the change of ownership.

Electricity and water, just ask to see the current months bills stamped "paid" (with the 7-11 receipt attached).

That is useful thanks- but who is responsible for getting this letter from the management? Is it the buyer ? the seller? Do you have to pay for this letter? Is it hard to get this letter?

Re electricity, I read on Rene Philippe's site re steps to buying a condo "

" The seller must prepare the documents for the transfer of the

electricity and water meters to the buyer. Note that the buyer will have to

refund to the seller the deposit paid by the seller to the electricity

authority if this matter was not included in the sale and purchase price"

I agree with you on having a lawyer due the due diligence. Unfortunately here in Thailand Lawyers have a reputation similar to one's found in many countries. In other words watch them. For my self those are things I would check myself. As you say back in Canada at least in BC the sale can not be completed unless all outstanding bills are paid. If that is not the case here chances are a lawyer would not check them unless specifically asked to do so.

I see you are new to the forum.

If you are new to Thailand double welcome. I hope you enjoy it as much as I do.

It has been mentioned that there are lots of Condos available if there is a problem just get another one. This is an OK idea if money is the guiding principal as it is for many posters. For myself it is location and view. those are not always that easy to find.

[hellodolly]

This is really important: do your due dilligence, especially with regards to unpaid HOA fees.

At my condo, management is a joke. They post lists of owners who haven't paid in years.

Many are on the top floor... And the amounts are high enough to buy a small new car.

As the common bills have to be paid, the honest owners are carrying the deadbeats.

Go and find out the ratio of owners who pay vs the deadbeats who let others pay their bills.

At my condo, about 25% are not current...

I was treasure at a town house complex in Canada. 25% behind on unpaid strata fees was about what we had. I think that is a common figure. The thing we did was in are bylaws we made room to get just so far behind and then it was turned over to a collection agency. Here in Thailand as you say some never pay. As long as they don't sell the condo they get away with it.

[jacko45k]

I was under the impression that the condo management have to provide a letter to the land office, stating all outstanding fees have been paid by the current owner, before the land office will register the change of ownership.

Electricity and water, just ask to see the current months bills stamped "paid" (with the 7-11 receipt attached).

Not to be pedantic, but those 7-11 receipts fade to a blank in short time...........and the 7-11 doesn't stamp the bill 'paid' either.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

What else besides Maintenance fees is included in a debt free letter and is it a mandatory step in the selling/buying process?

Common fees (which potentially could be hundreds of thousands of Baht). Electricity and water where these are billed by the building. Cable TV. That's about it.

And yes you have to have it (unless perhaps as mentioned above someone has bribed the Land Office to register the transfer without it, or a forgery was used, though this seems unlikely to me). Any buyer concerned about this possibility could always just go and ask at the building office in person.

[rbrooks]

No unless you live in Thailand and are a Farang.

[harrry]

Unless you get the electricity transfered into your name good luck with getting the electricity restated to the condo until it has been paid and the old electricity service cancelled and a new one made.

[surangw]

Due diligence and lawyer.... I dont think that works in Thailand...

how much to pay the lawyer verses the electric bill?