Fined 15,000 Baht For "smuggling"

[Forkinhades]

110 baht a carton, so probably fake as well

[bino]

Headed back home and dropped off the passengers. The missus and I

decided to go and eat at Deiters restaurant in Prakhonchai. From there I

called my friend and said I would drop round some ciggies for him - I don't smoke!

As I pulled up outside his house two grey 'customs' vehicles sped up the

drive and ordered us out of the car.

Hmmmm... how would the cops know who your friend was, and where he lived? How would they know that you were going to be arriving there with the contraband?

How well do you know your friend? Methinks he had something to do with stitching you up.

Edited May 12, 2013 by bino

[cardholder]

But far fetched this story for me.I was taken in but when customs followed op and his wife and then the mention of a Cambodian snitch.Mmm..Not for me this one Good luck.

What would you like - a signed affadavit, or a copy of the receipt for 14,355 Baht -

[isanbirder]

There's no proof. Yes, you have a receipt. Yes, there were five people and five cartons.

But you've been here long enough to know that you've been had. TIT.

[cardholder]

110 baht a carton, so probably fake as well

Yes, my friend prefers them to the 300 Baht fakes at the Chong Chom border.

[allalong]

Just slightly off topic,but where can I buy packs of 200 cigs international brand,or loose tobacco in Bkk?

Sent from my GT-S7500L using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[cardholder]

Headed back home and dropped off the passengers. The missus and I

decided to go and eat at Deiters restaurant in Prakhonchai. From there I

called my friend and said I would drop round some ciggies for him - I don't smoke!

As I pulled up outside his house two grey 'customs' vehicles sped up the

drive and ordered us out of the car.

Hmmmm... how would the cops know who your friend was, and where he lived? How would they know that you were going to be arriving there with the contraband?

How well do you know your friend? Methinks he had something to do with stitching you up.

Yoy are clueless or read the erong detective novels. Now keep up please...

They didn't need to know where my friend lived. My best guess is that the snitch followed me back from the border and saw me drop off the passengers. As in Fatfathers example it wss probably a reasonable bet that 5 cartons were in the car with 2 petsons - Jackpot, we have a pull. The snitch would have contacted the local Prakhonchai customs guys and I guess they picked me up after leaving the restaurant.

With it now

[jackspratt]

The duty free allowance will be applied to accompanied personal effects up to Bath 10,000 worth if

i) the items are intended for your own personal or professional uses;

ii) the quantity are reasonable; and

iii) the items are not subject to prohibition or restriction.

However, there are limits on the amount of alcoholic beverages, cigarettes, cigars and smoking tobacco to which you may include in your duty free

personal exemption as follows:

• 200 cigarettes or 250 grams of cigars or smoking tobacco; and
• 1 litre of alcoholic beverages.

Personal effects do not include motor vehicles and motor vehicle parts regardless of the length of time used and owned.

http://www.customs.go.th/wps/wcm/connect/custen/travellers/allowance+and+relief/allowancerelief

the items are intended for your own personal or professional uses;

If for personal use,this can include smoking them, gifting them, or if so inclined, depostiting them where the sun don't shine!

Cardholder committed no criminal offence.

5 Adults passed through the border from Cambodia to Thailand, with their personal allowance of 1 carton of cigarettes each. It matters not who bought them on the Cambodian side.

Is there a lawyer in the house who will take this case on, and take the corrupt customs officials to court?

I don't agree.

The OP bought the ciggies (which exceed his allowance) ie they were his property.

He then distributed them to others to carry across the border - for the purpose of evading duty.

He then took possession of them again once inside Thailand, without the correct duty having being paid.

Sounds like a classic case of smuggling to me.

Doesn't appear to be any corruption to me - heavy handed perhaps.

ps you should have no problems finding "lawyers" on TV - I suggest you take a quick glance in the Thailand News forum. That is infested with them.

Edited May 12, 2013 by jackspratt

[cardholder]

There's no proof. Yes, you have a receipt. Yes, there were five people and five cartons.

But you've been here long enough to know that you've been had. TIT.

Yes IB, but I want me - and others - to avoid 'being had' in the future.

[somtampet]

The duty free allowance will be applied to accompanied personal effects up to Bath 10,000 worth if

i) the items are intended for your own personal or professional uses;

ii) the quantity are reasonable; and

iii) the items are not subject to prohibition or restriction.

However, there are limits on the amount of alcoholic beverages, cigarettes, cigars and smoking tobacco to which you may include in your duty free

personal exemption as follows:

• 200 cigarettes or 250 grams of cigars or smoking tobacco; and
• 1 litre of alcoholic beverages.

Personal effects do not include motor vehicles and motor vehicle parts regardless of the length of time used and owned.

http://www.customs.go.th/wps/wcm/connect/custen/travellers/allowance+and+relief/allowancerelief

the items are intended for your own personal or professional uses;

If for personal use,this can include smoking them, gifting them, or if so inclined, depostiting them where the sun don't shine!

Cardholder committed no criminal offence.

5 Adults passed through the border from Cambodia to Thailand, with their personal allowance of 1 carton of cigarettes each. It matters not who bought them on the Cambodian side.

Is there a lawyer in the house who will take this case on, and take the corrupt customs officials to court?

I don't agree.

The OP bought the ciggies (which exceed his allowance) ie they were his property.

He then distributed them to others to carry across the border - for the purpose of evading duty.

He then took possession of them again once inside Thailand, without the correct duty having being paid.

Sounds like a classic case of smuggling to me.

Doesn't appear to be any corruption to me - heavy handed perhaps.

ps you should have no problems finding "lawyers" on TV - I suggest you take a quick glance in the Thailand News forum. That is infested with them.

Have to agree,the purpose was to have all the 5 boxes to himself,so smuggling to me too.It amazes me sometimes,that after bringing 5 boxes back,smug in the fact that u have got them back into Thailand,then moan and groan when u get caught,man up and take the rap !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[whybother]

jackspratt, on 12 May 2013 - 16:28, said:

I don't agree.

The OP bought the ciggies (which exceed his allowance) ie they were his property.

He then distributed them to others to carry across the border - for the purpose of evading duty.

He then took possession of them again once inside Thailand, without the correct duty having being paid.

Sounds like a classic case of smuggling to me.

Doesn't appear to be any corruption to me - heavy handed perhaps.

ps you should have no problems finding "lawyers" on TV - I suggest you take a quick glance in the Thailand News forum. That is infested with them.

There is no limit to the amount of cigarettes you can buy overseas. There is a limit to how many you can bring in to Thailand. Given that each person didn't go over the prescribed limit, no one broke the law.

[jackspratt]

jackspratt, on 12 May 2013 - 16:28, said:

I don't agree.

The OP bought the ciggies (which exceed his allowance) ie they were his property.

He then distributed them to others to carry across the border - for the purpose of evading duty.

He then took possession of them again once inside Thailand, without the correct duty having being paid.

Sounds like a classic case of smuggling to me.

Doesn't appear to be any corruption to me - heavy handed perhaps.

ps you should have no problems finding "lawyers" on TV - I suggest you take a quick glance in the Thailand News forum. That is infested with them.

There is no limit to the amount of cigarettes you can buy overseas. There is a limit to how many you can bring in to Thailand. Given that each person didn't go over the prescribed limit, no one broke the law.

I have no desire to debate this further - suffice to say, you are wrong.

In fact, the Customs people would have been within their legal rights to take action against each of the individuals who carried the ciggies over the border ie each of them broke the law.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

First, you were betrayed by someone, who would have been given a % of the 15k..

Second you did smuggle, as goods brought across the boarder must be for personal use only, as as the man said, I don't see 5 people.

Edited May 12, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[cardholder]

First, you were betrayed by someone, who would have been given a % of the 15k..

Second you did smuggle, as goods brought across the boarder must be for personal use only, as as the man said, I don't see 5 people.

Post #27 is quite a powerful argument against your assertion.

[whybother]

I have no desire to debate this further - suffice to say, you are wrong.

In fact, the Customs people would have been within their legal rights to take action against each of the individuals who carried the ciggies over the border ie each of them broke the law.

If I am wrong, I would guess that 90% of travellers have broken the law, because I would expect that most of them have shared their purchases.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

First, you were betrayed by someone, who would have been given a % of the 15k..

Second you did smuggle, as goods brought across the boarder must be for personal use only, as as the man said, I don't see 5 people.

Post #27 is quite a powerful argument against your assertion.

The crime was premeditated, as you already admitted.

Oh, also very dangerous to carry things over boarders for other people.

Edited May 12, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[cardholder]

First, you were betrayed by someone, who would have been given a % of the 15k..

Second you did smuggle, as goods brought across the boarder must be for personal use only, as as the man said, I don't see 5 people.

Post #27 is quite a powerful argument against your assertion.

The crime was premeditated, as you already admitted.

Oh, also very dangerous to carry things over boarders for other people.

Remind me again - which crime, exactly?

[taninthai]

I wouldnt touch half the stuff at them markets especially the booze and cigs, you think their the real deal and not fakes?

Sent from my GT-P7500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Thaddeus]

Unlucky mate.

I go every Friday around lunch time, parking is much easier at that time, and for the last month or so I have seen at least two or three pick-ups being searched by Customs on the long stretch near my old place. There was no point in pulling you there as you had five people in the car, but they must have been watching you all the way to Dieters and beyond.

Edited May 12, 2013 by Thaddeus

[bunnydrops]

There is always intent of the law and the letter of the law. The intent is that any one person can not bring more than one carton. The letter says that one person can bring one carton. You crossed legally, you should not be fined. Customs could have done the same to you if you stopped for a rest stop and two people got out to piss.

[krisb]

Maybe you were 'marked' at the point of sale since you bought 5 times the permitted amount.

 

Let you keep 2 packs of ciggies because that was the allowance for you and wife. As to the beer, obviously they were whisky drinkers..

 

Do not know what the official fine rates for 'smuggling' are, but since the op himself bought 5 times the allowance, distributed them to other people and the collected them on the Thai side he, in my view, guilty of smuggling.

 

Next time better to let each adult buy there own allowance and, as suggested,, collect from them the next day.

I understand your point and it is well made.

 

However, at the pointg of sale the vendor asked me how many people the purchase was for - hence the individually packed cartons.

 

 

Did I break the law ?  -  I ask this as a genuine question.

If you don't think you broke the law then why didn't you call their bluff and not pay the fine??

[Khun Watchaporn]

Maybe you were 'marked' at the point of sale since you bought 5 times the permitted amount.

Let you keep 2 packs of ciggies because that was the allowance for you and wife. As to the beer, obviously they were whisky drinkers..

Do not know what the official fine rates for 'smuggling' are, but since the op himself bought 5 times the allowance, distributed them to other people and the collected them on the Thai side he, in my view, guilty of smuggling.

Next time better to let each adult buy there own allowance and, as suggested,, collect from them the next day.

I understand your point and it is well made.

However, at the pointg of sale the vendor asked me how many people the purchase was for - hence the individually packed cartons.

Did I break the law ? - I ask this as a genuine question.

If you don't think you broke the law then why didn't you call their bluff and not pay the fine??

Whether one breaks the law or not isn't really irrelevent in Thailand.

Locked away, massive 'bail', vehicle impounded, all possibilities while still being innocent.

Edited May 12, 2013 by Khun Watchaporn

[sirchai]

I did what I have done before - bought 20 cans of Angkor (packed 4 per bag) and 5 cartons of Marlborough lights - also packed in individual bags. When we left each adult took out their allotted allowance.

Obviously some discussion and debate took place. We established that the going rate for a 'smuggling' fine was 35,000 Baht. It seemed that 28,000 might be acceptable. My suggestion to the missus to give them 2,000 Baht and tell them to f£$% off was not well received.

To cut a long story a bit shorter, the missus finished up paying 14,355 Baht - which I discovered from talking to a friend (who had a friend go through this) was something of a result.

Here we go then - what did I do wrong?

Marlboro from Cambodia would even make me to a Non smoker. Not even talking about their whiskey and the other bs. You should have told them to call the tourist police, #1155.

Then you would have seen them talking off pretty fast. You'd lost your common sense. That's what you did wrong.

What you did do wrong was to believe some fools. Did you even see their ID's? I'd have taken only 13,355 baht from you, because you don't smoke.

Edited May 12, 2013 by Maestro
Fixed quote tags

[Thaddeus]

What you did do wrong was to believe some fools. Did you even see their ID's?

I've been stopped by these chaps and seen their ID, they are the real deal.

[cardholder]

Maybe you were 'marked' at the point of sale since you bought 5 times the permitted amount.

Let you keep 2 packs of ciggies because that was the allowance for you and wife. As to the beer, obviously they were whisky drinkers..

Do not know what the official fine rates for 'smuggling' are, but since the op himself bought 5 times the allowance, distributed them to other people and the collected them on the Thai side he, in my view, guilty of smuggling.

Next time better to let each adult buy there own allowance and, as suggested,, collect from them the next day.

I understand your point and it is well made.

However, at the pointg of sale the vendor asked me how many people the purchase was for - hence the individually packed cartons.

Did I break the law ? - I ask this as a genuine question.

If you don't think you broke the law then why didn't you call their bluff and not pay the fine??

I thought about that and had already said we would come back on Monday with a lawyer. They said the choices were; go to amphur office now (and then to police station to pay) or 'go legal' with the case going to court maybe next week. In the meantime the car would be impounded. I was committed to pucking someone up to go and see Buriram Utd in an hours time and I have a hotel booking in Pattaya for Wednesday. What would you have done - really.

I had to go to the ATM and it crossed my mind to park up at another friend house, get a lift back, and tell them to get stuffed, I have have lent the car to a friend to go to Bangkok and I am paying nothing until I have had legal representation. THAT would have called their bluff.

In all honesty I was slightly fearful of incarceration. I didn't think they could do that, but T.I.T. and I have seen two Falangs spend time in the monkey house on trumped up charges.

So, on balance, I chose not to call their bluff. It was a damage limitation exercise and remember - it was the missus, not me, being interrogated................... Hmmmmmm!

[IsaanAussie]

We live in a land where corruption is considered fair as long as many people benefit. Where tea money collection is a job requirement for enforcement officers as is traffic violations elsewhere. RED Card and the monkey house? Beating the sods at their own game? Are you crazy? Relax my son, on a windy day bend or break, you aint gonna stop the wind!

I can visualise the farang with a line of plebs following all carrying their "show bags". Lead with your chin next time!

Consider yourself lucky it wasn't the Vat guys, the WEE-A-TEE police. You do not screw around with them.

Edited May 12, 2013 by IsaanAussie

[cardholder]

I did what I have done before - bought 20 cans of Angkor (packed 4 per bag) and 5 cartons of Marlborough lights - also packed in individual bags. When we left each adult took out their allotted allowance.

Obviously some discussion and debate took place. We established that the going rate for a 'smuggling' fine was 35,000 Baht. It seemed that 28,000 might be acceptable. My suggestion to the missus to give them 2,000 Baht and tell them to f£$% off was not well received.

To cut a long story a bit shorter, the missus finished up paying 14,355 Baht - which I discovered from talking to a friend (who had a friend go through this) was something of a result.

Here we go then - what did I do wrong?

Marlboro from Cambodia would even make me to a Non smoker. Not even talking about their whiskey and the other bs. You should have told them to call the tourist police, #1155.

Then you would have seen them talking off pretty fast. You'd lost your common sense. That's what you did wrong.

What you did do wrong was to believe some fools. Did you even see their ID's? I'd have taken only 13,355 baht from you, because you don't smoke.

Not bad - 3 pages and only one fxxxxxx comedian!

These guys were for real, or maybe they had borrowed the keys to the amphur. Similarly, Prakhonchai police station was made of plastic and came from Trumpton - the police were, of course, cardboard cutouts!

Bloody H3ll Sirchai which planet, or what drugs, are you on?

[DILLIGAD]

Maybe you should be renamed CartonHolder. Sorry R** couldn't resist!!

[lemoncake]

Did you break the law? i do not think so.

Were you scammed- most definitely

Going legal is sure a possibility, but think about the money involved.

Lawyer would have cost you around 20K-25K, so in the end you are out of pocket about the same, sure on principle it feels better but end result is the same(out of pocket)

About law being broken: You would be guilty if you were stopped at the border with over the allowed amount, however you were stopped way after that and at this point it is not relevant, only because you, wife, sister etc can each bring certain amount and give it to whoever they like, in your case they chose to give it to you-perfectly legal.

[Loptr]

110 baht a carton, so probably fake as well

Yes, my friend prefers them to the 300 Baht fakes at the Chong Chom border.

So next time tell your friend to make his own trip across the border as this one cost you 14,335 baht. I understand being a nice guy and doing favors for friends, but when it places you in a questionable position with the BiB, best to just smile and say you can no longer do this as a favor.