Montclair Wine

[eezergood]

Interesting maneuver that couldn't really work. It would drive business into 'on premise' sectors and out of retail.

Xylophone, is there a link to that article?

Have tried to locate it online GS but cannot, however I will see if the cafe has yesterdays paper so that I can cut out the article and scan it for you (if you want?).

It was the Sunday Nation and was a column called "Bottles & Banquets" by "JC Eversole" towards the back of the paper in the "lifestyle" type section.

Cheers.

PS. Tried a bottle of "Two Hands" 2008 Barossa Grenache at 16.5% alc. A good wine but not my style with very little depth/layers to it. Also had a "Heritage Rosscos Shiraz" 2005 which only really opened up after 12 hours plus!!

Yeah tried to do that yesterday as well but came up with f*** all

Plugged that "Bottle and Banquets" by "JC Eversole" in as well, came up with a couple of outdated articles hahaha... If you can get your hands on it that would be great as I'd be interested to read more about this development...

Yesterday's Hero, 16.5%? Holy mother of christ, that's a big bertha! Hopefully brought in prior to last years tax rise I'm surprised that it's so high, I always thought it was about 2% lighter so had to go and check seems I just never noticed it being so high octane: the 09,10,11 are around 15%. Always an enjoyable wine though, I remember doing a vertical with the cellar door manager last year in their cave was just delicious especially '03 and '06.

As for your Heritage Rossco's taking 12hours to open up? Geez I would've been asleep on the couch with those shenanigans

Yeah some of us stocked up on Two Hands at the right time.........

[xylophone]

Interesting maneuver that couldn't really work. It would drive business into 'on premise' sectors and out of retail.

Xylophone, is there a link to that article?

Couldn't scan it GS but here is the main part of the article which was discussed at a business dinner meeting by the Thai Wine Association (last week apparently).

"The prospect of yet another increase in excise taxes also generated extensive discussion. While not yet final, the purported increase, the second in less than a year, would change the tax base from the current wholesale price of each wine to the retail price.

Concern by the TWA members over any tax increase is more than justified because as domestic producers, they pay not only excise duties but also taxes on their land and business operations. Hardly a fair shake for business contributing to employment, tourism and the Kingdoms all-important agriculture sector".

The article does use the words "prospect of yet another increase" and "while not yet final, the purported increase", so let's hope that sanity prevails and it doesn't come into being.

[GrantSmith]

Thanks for that xylophone...

Interesting that it was the TWA that bandying about this hypothetical scenario...

If it was the President of the TWA who said those words (nothing to suggest either way) I'd be surprised.

I suspect it was someone else hiding behind the TWA, a bit of scaremongering, possibly due to the larger overheads of one particular cog in the wineries wheel is a lot more expensive than the same cog for other wineries.

I still maintain (taking that article at face value) altering the tax to be based on the 'retail' price would be 1. Impractical, driving business into the 'on premise' trade (on premise being hotels bars and restaurants) and 2. The Ministry of Finance would stand to lose billions in tax revenue.

[xylophone]

Thanks for that xylophone...

Interesting that it was the TWA that bandying about this hypothetical scenario...

If it was the President of the TWA who said those words (nothing to suggest either way) I'd be surprised.

I suspect it was someone else hiding behind the TWA, a bit of scaremongering, possibly due to the larger overheads of one particular cog in the wineries wheel is a lot more expensive than the same cog for other wineries.

I still maintain (taking that article at face value) altering the tax to be based on the 'retail' price would be 1. Impractical, driving business into the 'on premise' trade (on premise being hotels bars and restaurants) and 2. The Ministry of Finance would stand to lose billions in tax revenue.

Basically unworkable from what I can see, unless they use the "Recommended Retail Price" as the benchmark rather than what it actually sells for? However that would cut down the flexibility of the retailer to discount his product if he wanted to have a promotional push.

Surely the Ministry of Finance would stand to gain billions because the tax would be paid on the retail price which is obviously higher than the wholesale price (or am I missing something again?).

[xylophone]

On to another aspect and which can include Montclair wine.....................I caught up with a senior manager (farang) at Villa Market in Chalong the other day and he is trying to "streamline" the stores somewhat.

I explained the difficulty I had when I had bought some wine which was off, very definitely off, cloudy, vinegar and sherry like smell (I thought at the time it had probably been cooked in a container or similar) and the store refused to change it. He said that should never happen again and provided I could show the receipt, then wine would be changed.

He was quite adamant about that and I took it that he was training his staff on this. So that is good news for wine drinkers who visit Villa Market.

[GrantSmith]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Thanks for that xylophone...

Interesting that it was the TWA that bandying about this hypothetical scenario...

If it was the President of the TWA who said those words (nothing to suggest either way) I'd be surprised.

I suspect it was someone else hiding behind the TWA, a bit of scaremongering, possibly due to the larger overheads of one particular cog in the wineries wheel is a lot more expensive than the same cog for other wineries.

I still maintain (taking that article at face value) altering the tax to be based on the 'retail' price would be 1. Impractical, driving business into the 'on premise' trade (on premise being hotels bars and restaurants) and 2. The Ministry of Finance would stand to lose billions in tax revenue.

Basically unworkable from what I can see, unless they use the "Recommended Retail Price" as the benchmark rather than what it actually sells for? However that would cut down the flexibility of the retailer to discount his product if he wanted to have a promotional push.

Surely the Ministry of Finance would stand to gain billions because the tax would be paid on the retail price which is obviously higher than the wholesale price (or am I missing something again?).

You couldn't use the RRP or any retail pricing for the benchmark as the wine would be pushed into the 'on premise' sector and thus not having to pay the excise tax because there's no 'retail' price in which to benchmark the tax eqaution from. They could try and use the "last retail price" to try and do it, that would likely result in the current crop of wines that are found in retail would likely not return as the Importer/Distributer drops those labels and brings in new labels that haven't set foot in a retail market and the game begins again.

Though, I guess not all wine would (could) be pushed into 'on premise' - most of the fruit wines would (hopefully) stay in 'off premise' retail.

Speaking of these Fruit Wines, I was chatting with a bloke who lives in Vietnam, he was saying that the Vietnamese are looking for these Fruit Wines from Thailand and I was telling him the exact opposite was happening in Thailand (Vietnamese product was coming into Thailand) he found that pretty surprising, given their (Vietnam's) taxation setup, which whilst not as excessive as Thailand's, it's still confusing as all f*** and I'd wager not worth the trouble. Actually gave me some pretty good insight into the ASEAN beverage scene.

As for Ministry of Finance finding the right balance, they have to be looking at other markets to see how they tax alcohol. They could look at the Australian model and adapt it to suit the Thai market, this would appease the domestic producers, though I'm fairly confident that last years Excise increase was not about appeasing the domestic producers

On to another aspect and which can include Montclair wine.....................I caught up with a senior manager (farang) at Villa Market in Chalong the other day and he is trying to "streamline" the stores somewhat.

I explained the difficulty I had when I had bought some wine which was off, very definitely off, cloudy, vinegar and sherry like smell (I thought at the time it had probably been cooked in a container or similar) and the store refused to change it. He said that should never happen again and provided I could show the receipt, then wine would be changed.

He was quite adamant about that and I took it that he was training his staff on this. So that is good news for wine drinkers who visit Villa Market.

Was the Villa guy an Australian? I briefly met a guy from Villa at an Australian Trade Commission event a couple of weeks ago, seems they're entering the Importing/Distribution game as well.

[xylophone]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Thanks for that xylophone...

Interesting that it was the TWA that bandying about this hypothetical scenario...

If it was the President of the TWA who said those words (nothing to suggest either way) I'd be surprised.

I suspect it was someone else hiding behind the TWA, a bit of scaremongering, possibly due to the larger overheads of one particular cog in the wineries wheel is a lot more expensive than the same cog for other wineries.

I still maintain (taking that article at face value) altering the tax to be based on the 'retail' price would be 1. Impractical, driving business into the 'on premise' trade (on premise being hotels bars and restaurants) and 2. The Ministry of Finance would stand to lose billions in tax revenue.

Basically unworkable from what I can see, unless they use the "Recommended Retail Price" as the benchmark rather than what it actually sells for? However that would cut down the flexibility of the retailer to discount his product if he wanted to have a promotional push.

Surely the Ministry of Finance would stand to gain billions because the tax would be paid on the retail price which is obviously higher than the wholesale price (or am I missing something again?).

You couldn't use the RRP or any retail pricing for the benchmark as the wine would be pushed into the 'on premise' sector and thus not having to pay the excise tax because there's no 'retail' price in which to benchmark the tax eqaution from. They could try and use the "last retail price" to try and do it, that would likely result in the current crop of wines that are found in retail would likely not return as the Importer/Distributer drops those labels and brings in new labels that haven't set foot in a retail market and the game begins again.

Though, I guess not all wine would (could) be pushed into 'on premise' - most of the fruit wines would (hopefully) stay in 'off premise' retail.

Speaking of these Fruit Wines, I was chatting with a bloke who lives in Vietnam, he was saying that the Vietnamese are looking for these Fruit Wines from Thailand and I was telling him the exact opposite was happening in Thailand (Vietnamese product was coming into Thailand) he found that pretty surprising, given their (Vietnam's) taxation setup, which whilst not as excessive as Thailand's, it's still confusing as all f*** and I'd wager not worth the trouble. Actually gave me some pretty good insight into the ASEAN beverage scene.

As for Ministry of Finance finding the right balance, they have to be looking at other markets to see how they tax alcohol. They could look at the Australian model and adapt it to suit the Thai market, this would appease the domestic producers, though I'm fairly confident that last years Excise increase was not about appeasing the domestic producers

On to another aspect and which can include Montclair wine.....................I caught up with a senior manager (farang) at Villa Market in Chalong the other day and he is trying to "streamline" the stores somewhat.

I explained the difficulty I had when I had bought some wine which was off, very definitely off, cloudy, vinegar and sherry like smell (I thought at the time it had probably been cooked in a container or similar) and the store refused to change it. He said that should never happen again and provided I could show the receipt, then wine would be changed.

He was quite adamant about that and I took it that he was training his staff on this. So that is good news for wine drinkers who visit Villa Market.

Was the Villa guy an Australian? I briefly met a guy from Villa at an Australian Trade Commission event a couple of weeks ago, seems they're entering the Importing/Distribution game as well.

GS..........thanks for the tax update. Does seem complicated and as GOM said there seems to be more of them coming on to the market, some even originating in OZ, but most being produced by Siam Winery!!

The Villa Market guy was actually Swiss and was very interested in any feedback........always a good sign.

[GrantSmith]

xylophone, if you can connect the dots the game becomes a lot more interesting

[xylophone]

Cheaper than a bottle of Montclair red!

As I very often do, I was scanning the wine shelves at my local Big C and noticed that a Chilean wine was being "cleared" at 272 baht per bottle. It was the 2010 Crucero Carmenere wine, and as I am quite partial to this grape, I decided to buy all they had left which was unfortunately only six bottles.

Perhaps it had come to the end of its time as regards stock, or they thought that being four years old it was past its prime, or whatever, I don't know, but it certainly was a very enjoyable wine with some flavours reminiscent of Cabernet Sauvignon and Syrah, although nothing much on the nose.

Many "experts" recommend drinking this particular wine when it is young, however I have tasted a very enjoyable Carmenere that was about six years old, so I wasn't afraid to take a chance on this and I'm so pleased that I did.

For the record the Carmenere grape was a native of France and was used in the Bordeaux mix by some producers, however it was thought to have been just about wiped out by the phylloxera "plague". What wasn't known was that some plantings had been taken over to Chile being mistaken for Merlot and grown there, and it was rediscovered some years ago.

This mainly because the Merlot being produced in Chile had quite different characteristics to other Merlot, and investigation showed that it was in fact Carmenere, which was similar in looks to the Merlot vine. There is still some grown in France, but not much, and having said that I am a great fan of the grape when it is handled well.

Going to have another look today to see if they have found some more "old stock" because if they have I will be definitely buying all I can at 272 baht per bottle!!

[GrantSmith]

Cheaper than a bottle of Montclair red!

As I very often do, I was scanning the wine shelves at my local Big C and noticed that a Chilean wine was being "cleared" at 272 baht per bottle. It was the 2010 Crucero Carmenere wine, and as I am quite partial to this grape, I decided to buy all they had left which was unfortunately only six bottles.

Perhaps it had come to the end of its time as regards stock, or they thought that being four years old it was past its prime, or whatever, I don't know, but it certainly was a very enjoyable wine with some flavours reminiscent of Cabernet Sauvignon and Syrah, although nothing much on the nose.

Many "experts" recommend drinking this particular wine when it is young, however I have tasted a very enjoyable Carmenere that was about six years old, so I wasn't afraid to take a chance on this and I'm so pleased that I did.

For the record the Carmenere grape was a native of France and was used in the Bordeaux mix by some producers, however it was thought to have been just about wiped out by the phylloxera "plague". What wasn't known was that some plantings had been taken over to Chile being mistaken for Merlot and grown there, and it was rediscovered some years ago.

This mainly because the Merlot being produced in Chile had quite different characteristics to other Merlot, and investigation showed that it was in fact Carmenere, which was similar in looks to the Merlot vine. There is still some grown in France, but not much, and having said that I am a great fan of the grape when it is handled well.

Going to have another look today to see if they have found some more "old stock" because if they have I will be definitely buying all I can at 272 baht per bottle!!

Reminds of a few years ago when a number of winemakers in Australia had started planting what they were told was Albariño which later turned out to be - after DNA testing several years later - Savignan.

[xylophone]

Cheaper than a bottle of Montclair red!

As I very often do, I was scanning the wine shelves at my local Big C and noticed that a Chilean wine was being "cleared" at 272 baht per bottle. It was the 2010 Crucero Carmenere wine, and as I am quite partial to this grape, I decided to buy all they had left which was unfortunately only six bottles.

Perhaps it had come to the end of its time as regards stock, or they thought that being four years old it was past its prime, or whatever, I don't know, but it certainly was a very enjoyable wine with some flavours reminiscent of Cabernet Sauvignon and Syrah, although nothing much on the nose.

Many "experts" recommend drinking this particular wine when it is young, however I have tasted a very enjoyable Carmenere that was about six years old, so I wasn't afraid to take a chance on this and I'm so pleased that I did.

For the record the Carmenere grape was a native of France and was used in the Bordeaux mix by some producers, however it was thought to have been just about wiped out by the phylloxera "plague". What wasn't known was that some plantings had been taken over to Chile being mistaken for Merlot and grown there, and it was rediscovered some years ago.

This mainly because the Merlot being produced in Chile had quite different characteristics to other Merlot, and investigation showed that it was in fact Carmenere, which was similar in looks to the Merlot vine. There is still some grown in France, but not much, and having said that I am a great fan of the grape when it is handled well.

Going to have another look today to see if they have found some more "old stock" because if they have I will be definitely buying all I can at 272 baht per bottle!!

Reminds of a few years ago when a number of winemakers in Australia had started planting what they were told was Albariño which later turned out to be - after DNA testing several years later - Savignan.

It would seem that mistakes like this are fairly commonplace. For example a huge percentage of the Petite Sirah wine made in California is actually from the Durif grape, which was an accidental clone in the varieties being grown by French oenologist M. Durif, although the pollen for it is thought to have come from the Syrah vine.

To confuse matters even more there was a grape grown in France called Petite Syrah which was a smaller berry version of Syrah and has nothing to do with the version now being called a similar name in California.

One wonders exactly what the Californians thought they were getting when they started growing Durif/Petite Sirah?

Edited July 23, 2014 by xylophone

[GrantSmith]

Ah yes Shiraz (named after the town in Iran where the grape is said to have originated) vs Syrah (the french name, because the French like the Americans have to come up with a name for something and coq-au-vin it up)

Here's a good little "letter to the editor" regarding the subject...

[xylophone]

Ah yes Shiraz (named after the town in Iran where the grape is said to have originated) vs Syrah (the french name, because the French like the Americans have to come up with a name for something and coq-au-vin it up)

Here's a good little "letter to the editor" regarding the subject...

Aha, the Syrah/Shiraz myth.................the grape is actually indigenous to France and the link to Persia and the crusader returning with the vine are also myth.

Not too easy to dispel the crusader one because the grape most likely already existed in France when the Crusades were under way in the 12th and 13th centuries. However the Hermitage legend could well be true because it is said that the returning crusader was absolutely devastated by what he had seen and decided to shut himself away in the northern Rhône and produce wine.

Shiraz is a good old Aussie bastardisation of the word Syrah as so often happens with regional/national dialect differences.

Having said that I don't care what it is called as long as the Aussies keep producing the brilliant Shiraz/Syrah that emanate from that part of the world!

[grumpyoldman]

Yes, I always figured the term Shiraz came from an Aussie pronunciation of Syrah.

X touched on California Durif a couple posts back, last I was in the Central Coast of California I actually was drinking some pretty outstanding Italian varietals grown there. Sangiovese & Barbera,excellent !

[xylophone]

Yes, I always figured the term Shiraz came from an Aussie pronunciation of Syrah.

X touched on California Durif a couple posts back, last I was in the Central Coast of California I actually was drinking some pretty outstanding Italian varietals grown there. Sangiovese & Barbera,excellent !

I have tried some Aussie Durifs but have found them very tannic, not giving up much at all.

As for the Italian varietals grown in California, I remember a wine which I used to buy in NZ at a high-quality small chain of wine outlets, and it was a blend of Sangiovese, Barbera and a couple of others which I can't currently remember, with a bit of Zinfandel thrown in, and despite this seemingly random mix, the resulting wine was very good indeed.

Staying on the Californian subject, and also linking in with the Montclair theme, I was at Tesco Lotus yesterday and again saw that they are having a clear-out sale of some of their wines, and on sale at 199 baht per bottle was a Beringer California Collection Cabernet Sauvignon 2010, so I bought half a dozen bottles thinking that they couldn't be too bad for that price.

As you would probably know, Beringer do make some very good wines, but this one is at the bottom end of their range, however it was much better than the other "fruit wines", including Montclair which are currently flooding the supermarket shelves and indeed it used to retail for over 600 baht a bottle.

It was enjoyable enough with some early fruit aromas on the nose and a little on the palate, although with a slight hint of "sweetness", which I often find with some wines from the USA. On the label it described aromas of "vanilla" which would normally come from the oak ageing process, however I very much doubt that a wine of this price would have seen time in oak, more likely that this vanilla came from oak chips or wooden staves used in the process.

Certainly worth looking for if you have a Tesco near you, and they also had the 2009 and 2005 vintages, although I'm not sure that I would want to take a chance on the 2005 vintage as it was never made to be a wine to keep.

[GrantSmith]

I had an absolutely cracking Durif from the Adelaide Hills - Ceravolo - back in May. I was never fond of Durif in my early days, it just lacked everything. But this little number was outstanding, it was everything I ever wanted in a Durif!

Mind you, it was packing heat at 15% but it was not a Barossa style 15%, this is likely down to the cooler climate of the Hills region.

As for Beringer, seems TWE, has found a dumping ground for their multi million dollar right off from last year

[xylophone]

I had an absolutely cracking Durif from the Adelaide Hills - Ceravolo - back in May. I was never fond of Durif in my early days, it just lacked everything. But this little number was outstanding, it was everything I ever wanted in a Durif!

Mind you, it was packing heat at 15% but it was not a Barossa style 15%, this is likely down to the cooler climate of the Hills region.

As for Beringer, seems TWE, has found a dumping ground for their multi million dollar right off from last year

Good on some winemakers for experimenting with different grapes, because every so often one will find a hidden gem. Have also tried some Aussie Petit Verdot, but again too tannic for my liking, however I'm sure there are a few good ones out there.

GS........ not sure what you meant about "TWE finding a dumping ground for their multimillion dollar write-off last year", but would love to know.

In amongst the Tesco 199 baht specials were the Tesco's own label "Simply"...........Cotes du Rhone; Chianti; and an Aussie Shiraz and Aussie Merlot. The only problem being that they are blends from different years (so no year of production on the label) and one had no idea how long these had been on the shelves/in stock.

This especially as on the back label it states, "this wine is best consumed within one year of purchase" however it could have been in stock for four or five years, one doesn't know although I was tempted to take a chance on a couple of them.

On the original OP subject, I noticed that the Montclair in Patong Big C has increased in price to nearly 990 baht per box. Not only that, the place is absolutely flooded with other similar wines from Siam Winery, all with a fruit juice content.

[GrantSmith]

I had an absolutely cracking Durif from the Adelaide Hills - Ceravolo - back in May. I was never fond of Durif in my early days, it just lacked everything. But this little number was outstanding, it was everything I ever wanted in a Durif!

Mind you, it was packing heat at 15% but it was not a Barossa style 15%, this is likely down to the cooler climate of the Hills region.

As for Beringer, seems TWE, has found a dumping ground for their multi million dollar right off from last year

Good on some winemakers for experimenting with different grapes, because every so often one will find a hidden gem. Have also tried some Aussie Petit Verdot, but again too tannic for my liking, however I'm sure there are a few good ones out there.

GS........ not sure what you meant about "TWE finding a dumping ground for their multimillion dollar write-off last year", but would love to know.

In amongst the Tesco 199 baht specials were the Tesco's own label "Simply"...........Cotes du Rhone; Chianti; and an Aussie Shiraz and Aussie Merlot. The only problem being that they are blends from different years (so no year of production on the label) and one had no idea how long these had been on the shelves/in stock.

This especially as on the back label it states, "this wine is best consumed within one year of purchase" however it could have been in stock for four or five years, one doesn't know although I was tempted to take a chance on a couple of them.

On the original OP subject, I noticed that the Montclair in Patong Big C has increased in price to nearly 990 baht per box. Not only that, the place is absolutely flooded with other similar wines from Siam Winery, all with a fruit juice content.

Beringer is owned by TWE, last year TWE dumped $160 million worth of dead stock. At the time I jokingly commented to a few people back home that some of it would make its way here (to Thailand) because of the consumers fascination for "vintage" wines.

I'm sure it's just a complete coincidence that there's some cheap Beringer here at the moment

[xylophone]

On matters various about wine...................overheard a couple of Aussies in Big C discussing the price of a bottle of "Rumours" or was it "Gossips"?? and commenting that back home it was a $4 bottle of wine and wondering why they had to pay about $15 for it here?

They were also commenting on the Montclair and Castle Creek 5 L boxes as to what the quality was like. Don't know what they ended up buying but they were certainly having a good look round. On this subject, there is a big promotion going on with Castle Creek and there are bottles and boxes everywhere. However at least on the side of the box it does say it is a mix of grapes and fruit juice, so at least you know what you're buying.

Now one for you GS, you being the expert on Aussie wines; I noticed a few bottles of Domaine Chandon Shiraz 2007 (Heathcote, Victoria) knocked down from about 1800 baht to 900 baht (give or take a baht or two) so I decided to give one a try after reading on the label that the vintner reckons it's good for storing up to 10 years after the vintage, so that gives it a few years yet, however I have been bitten by these winemakers estimates before, so I'm wondering if you know anything about it?

I will try it tomorrow along with a good old Aussie beef pie and lashings of oxo gravy, with a few veggies thrown in of course. Would be interested in your thoughts on the wine, and I will post my findings.

[GrantSmith]

Now one for you GS, you being the expert on Aussie wines; I noticed a few bottles of Domaine Chandon Shiraz 2007 (Heathcote, Victoria) knocked down from about 1800 baht to 900 baht (give or take a baht or two) so I decided to give one a try after reading on the label that the vintner reckons it's good for storing up to 10 years after the vintage, so that gives it a few years yet, however I have been bitten by these winemakers estimates before, so I'm wondering if you know anything about it?

I will try it tomorrow along with a good old Aussie beef pie and lashings of oxo gravy, with a few veggies thrown in of course. Would be interested in your thoughts on the wine, and I will post my findings.

A 50% write down is a bargain in any man's book!

Domaine Chandon is (IMO) overrated (think Penfolds, Jacob's Creek, Hardy's and Lindeman's but with a luxury brand pumping money into it) and as a general rule I'll steer away from it but the 2007 should probably be starting to come good. I remember having it a few years ago and it was very chewy and grassy. After a few years that should have all had time to settle down. A good decanting probably won't hurt it either.

[Guest]

Just noted that the big Lotus had 10 liter Montclair boxes for 1499B.

That's about 112B/750ml bottle.

[GrantSmith]

Just noted that the big Lotus had 10 liter Montclair boxes for 1499B.

That's about 112B/750ml bottle.

10 litre boxes? Would you like fries with that?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Guest]

Just noted that the big Lotus had 10 liter Montclair boxes for 1499B.

That's about 112B/750ml bottle.

10 litre boxes? Would you like fries with that?

There is no room on my stomach for that anymore.

That was some Tesco special thing. Double the normal box size. I wonder when we are able to buy wines on oak barrels.

[xylophone]

Just noted that the big Lotus had 10 liter Montclair boxes for 1499B.

That's about 112B/750ml bottle.

Also noticed that Montclair 5 L boxes are cheaper in Villa Market than in Big C (Patong) and that has to be a first!

[xylophone]

Now one for you GS, you being the expert on Aussie wines; I noticed a few bottles of Domaine Chandon Shiraz 2007 (Heathcote, Victoria) knocked down from about 1800 baht to 900 baht (give or take a baht or two) so I decided to give one a try after reading on the label that the vintner reckons it's good for storing up to 10 years after the vintage, so that gives it a few years yet, however I have been bitten by these winemakers estimates before, so I'm wondering if you know anything about it?

I will try it tomorrow along with a good old Aussie beef pie and lashings of oxo gravy, with a few veggies thrown in of course. Would be interested in your thoughts on the wine, and I will post my findings.

A 50% write down is a bargain in any man's book!

Domaine Chandon is (IMO) overrated (think Penfolds, Jacob's Creek, Hardy's and Lindeman's but with a luxury brand pumping money into it) and as a general rule I'll steer away from it but the 2007 should probably be starting to come good. I remember having it a few years ago and it was very chewy and grassy. After a few years that should have all had time to settle down. A good decanting probably won't hurt it either.

Well I decanted it for two hours prior to drinking and it had a wonderful nose of blackberries and cracked pepper. Time had sorted out any of the rough edges it may have had and it was a lovely wine, very well made and well-balanced I may add.

I don't know that it will be drinking this well in 2017 (the 10 years given it by the winemaker) or in 2022, the year in which James Halliday said it would be drinking well (in fact I'd put good money on it not being the case!) because IMO it was as good as it was going to get and couldn't see much room for improvement in any aspect of it.

Now the $64,000 question...........would I have paid the retail price of 1799 baht for the wine. The answer is no. Would I buy another bottle at 899 baht, well the answer is perhaps!

From what I can remember, the Penfold's Shiraz/Cabernet Private Release at 749 baht, and the Taylor's Promised Land at 699 baht are good wines at around the same discounted price as above, and certainly very good value if you consider the full retail price of the Domain Chandon.

My next effort is to buy the Carmen Gran Reserva 2011 Cabernet Sauvignon for a try, because although Syrah/Shiraz was my favourite wine at one time, I think I was spoilt by my love of the French Cote Roties, however they were allowed to add a small percentage of Viognier (a white grape as you know) which gave the wine slightly floral nose and was a softer more approachable wine, whereas the Aussie Shiraz wines just don't have that little extra dimension, but I do find it in some of their Cabernet Sauvignon wines.

So the Chilean wine is next on the list.

[GrantSmith]

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There is no room on my stomach for that anymore.

That was some Tesco special thing. Double the normal box size. I wonder when we are able to buy wines on oak barrels.

If the NCPO approves the excise tax on fruit juice, you just might see that happen

Well I decanted it for two hours prior to drinking and it had a wonderful nose of blackberries and cracked pepper. Time had sorted out any of the rough edges it may have had and it was a lovely wine, very well made and well-balanced I may add.

I don't know that it will be drinking this well in 2017 (the 10 years given it by the winemaker) or in 2022, the year in which James Halliday said it would be drinking well (in fact I'd put good money on it not being the case!) because IMO it was as good as it was going to get and couldn't see much room for improvement in any aspect of it.

Now the $64,000 question...........would I have paid the retail price of 1799 baht for the wine. The answer is no. Would I buy another bottle at 899 baht, well the answer is perhaps!

From what I can remember, the Penfold's Shiraz/Cabernet Private Release at 749 baht, and the Taylor's Promised Land at 699 baht are good wines at around the same discounted price as above, and certainly very good value if you consider the full retail price of the Domain Chandon.

My next effort is to buy the Carmen Gran Reserva 2011 Cabernet Sauvignon for a try, because although Syrah/Shiraz was my favourite wine at one time, I think I was spoilt by my love of the French Cote Roties, however they were allowed to add a small percentage of Viognier (a white grape as you know) which gave the wine slightly floral nose and was a softer more approachable wine, whereas the Aussie Shiraz wines just don't have that little extra dimension, but I do find it in some of their Cabernet Sauvignon wines.

So the Chilean wine is next on the list.

2 hours? Must have been a damn good aussie pie

Glad to see that it has mellowed out with age and for Halliday to give it such longevity is interesting. Speaking of Master Halliday, he released his annual "Wine Companion" amid much pomp and fanfare.

Reading comments from those in the industry and seeing the scores he was dolling out, he was lambasted! He was giving 98-99 points out like it was some new fashion accessory! Going through his winery ratings the following morning (as one does) I was pretty surprised to see some of the ratings. I was talking with a mate of mine yesterday having not seen his winery listed, his reply was that he'd removed his wines for "political" reasons.

As I continued through the ratings there was one - IMO - huge demotion of a winery. The winery in question (we share something in common ) is easily one of Australia's best but this year has been demoted 2 levels down. It still maintains a 5 star rating but it has not been in that position for a very long time. There were wineries that previously had 3 stars and jumped up to a red 5 star rating.

There was just a massive inconsistency across the region and that's just in South Australia - I haven't even ventured to other states yet (might do that this weekend)

It seems Halliday has re-written his rule book on how ratings are assessed.

[xylophone]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

There is no room on my stomach for that anymore.

That was some Tesco special thing. Double the normal box size. I wonder when we are able to buy wines on oak barrels.

If the NCPO approves the excise tax on fruit juice, you just might see that happen

Well I decanted it for two hours prior to drinking and it had a wonderful nose of blackberries and cracked pepper. Time had sorted out any of the rough edges it may have had and it was a lovely wine, very well made and well-balanced I may add.

I don't know that it will be drinking this well in 2017 (the 10 years given it by the winemaker) or in 2022, the year in which James Halliday said it would be drinking well (in fact I'd put good money on it not being the case!) because IMO it was as good as it was going to get and couldn't see much room for improvement in any aspect of it.

Now the $64,000 question...........would I have paid the retail price of 1799 baht for the wine. The answer is no. Would I buy another bottle at 899 baht, well the answer is perhaps!

From what I can remember, the Penfold's Shiraz/Cabernet Private Release at 749 baht, and the Taylor's Promised Land at 699 baht are good wines at around the same discounted price as above, and certainly very good value if you consider the full retail price of the Domain Chandon.

My next effort is to buy the Carmen Gran Reserva 2011 Cabernet Sauvignon for a try, because although Syrah/Shiraz was my favourite wine at one time, I think I was spoilt by my love of the French Cote Roties, however they were allowed to add a small percentage of Viognier (a white grape as you know) which gave the wine slightly floral nose and was a softer more approachable wine, whereas the Aussie Shiraz wines just don't have that little extra dimension, but I do find it in some of their Cabernet Sauvignon wines.

So the Chilean wine is next on the list.

2 hours? Must have been a damn good aussie pie

Glad to see that it has mellowed out with age and for Halliday to give it such longevity is interesting. Speaking of Master Halliday, he released his annual "Wine Companion" amid much pomp and fanfare.

Reading comments from those in the industry and seeing the scores he was dolling out, he was lambasted! He was giving 98-99 points out like it was some new fashion accessory! Going through his winery ratings the following morning (as one does) I was pretty surprised to see some of the ratings. I was talking with a mate of mine yesterday having not seen his winery listed, his reply was that he'd removed his wines for "political" reasons.

As I continued through the ratings there was one - IMO - huge demotion of a winery. The winery in question (we share something in common ) is easily one of Australia's best but this year has been demoted 2 levels down. It still maintains a 5 star rating but it has not been in that position for a very long time. There were wineries that previously had 3 stars and jumped up to a red 5 star rating.

There was just a massive inconsistency across the region and that's just in South Australia - I haven't even ventured to other states yet (might do that this weekend)

It seems Halliday has re-written his rule book on how ratings are assessed.

Hmmm........for James Halliday to say that the 2007 Shiraz would be drinking well in 2022 is really going out on a limb IMO.

Perhaps he has been imbibing too much and killed off a few too many brain cells!!

[GrantSmith]

Something to consider the next time anyone feels like a Two Buck Chuck

http://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2014/08/two-buck-chuck-accused-of-containing-animal-remains/

[xylophone]

Something to consider the next time anyone feels like a Two Buck Chuck

http://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2014/08/two-buck-chuck-accused-of-containing-animal-remains/

I wouldn't worry too much about this, because there is always the possibility with mechanical harvesters that something like a dead field mouse or bird will find its way into the crusher, despite blowers in the equipment supposedly removing any foreign objects.

In addition any vineyard which has open top fermenters will also leave themselves open to dead animals (birds or rats) falling into the mix. This shouldn't happen in the Grand Cru Bordeaux wines, where the wineries can be something akin to the inside of the control room of a power station – – scrupulously clean, however in the more rustic vineyards in the South of France (quite possibly Italy and Spain and others also), the open top wooden or concrete fermenters are always susceptible to this.

I remember watching a rat running around the top of an open wood fermentation tank in the South of France and asking the winemaker what would happen if the rat fell into the wine, and he just shrugged his shoulders as if to say "so what", and this wine maker, made superb wine!

Since time immemorial, the fermentation tanks when open, have always been susceptible to the odd foreign object falling into the mix.

They are making a big thing about something which has happened for centuries.

[eezergood]

Just back from the UK - what did I drink you may ask? ALL OF IT!!!