Associated Press Confirms U S Government Seized Journalists' Phone Records

[Jingthing]

How many Tea Party affiliated individuals have been arrested at demonstrations in comparison to left wing radicals, such as Occupy Wallstreet?...

Probably not as many as should be. So many of them carry outrageously racist placards and talk about taking up arms (which they generally have) to resist the government. Overall I think the government has been more than tolerant of these extremist right wingers.

Translation of all this for non-Americans. Basically the American far right wing party, the republicans, is trying to impeach our two time freely elected President Obama by wildly exaggerating some negative to Obama news stories into so called big scandals. They won't succeed and you can take that to the bank. They never accepted our first African American president as legitimate and they never will.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/05/12/the-coming-attempt-to-impeach-obama.html?obref=obinsite

I can assure you that already in the Pavlovian swamps of the nutso

right, the glands are swelling. Theirs is a different planet from the

one you and I inhabit. Most Republican members of the House live in

districts where it is a given (among the white constituents, anyway)

that Obama is a socialist; that’s he bent on bringing the United States

of America down, or at least that he definitely doesn’t love the country

and the Constitution (nudge nudge) the way they do; that he’s not a

legitimate occupant of the Oval Office to start with. At the time he was

sworn in to his second term, 64 percent of Republicans agreed that Obama was “hiding important information” about his background. Half thought in December 2012 that he stole the election.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Jingthing

[midas]

How many Tea Party affiliated individuals have been arrested at demonstrations in comparison to left wing radicals, such as Occupy Wallstreet?...

Probably not as many as should be. So many of them carry outrageously racist placards and talk about taking up arms (which they generally have) to resist the government. Overall I think the government has been more than tolerant of these extremist right wingers.

Translation of all this for non-Americans. Basically the American far right wing party, the republicans, is trying to impeach our two time freely elected President Obama by wildly exaggerating some negative to Obama news stories into so called big scandals. They won't succeed and you can take that to the bank. They never accepted our first African American president as legitimate and they never will.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/05/12/the-coming-attempt-to-impeach-obama.html?obref=obinsite

I can assure you that already in the Pavlovian swamps of the nutso

right, the glands are swelling. Theirs is a different planet from the

one you and I inhabit. Most Republican members of the House live in

districts where it is a given (among the white constituents, anyway)

that Obama is a socialist; that’s he bent on bringing the United States

of America down, or at least that he definitely doesn’t love the country

and the Constitution (nudge nudge) the way they do; that he’s not a

legitimate occupant of the Oval Office to start with. At the time he was

sworn in to his second term, 64 percent of Republicans agreed that Obama was “hiding important information” about his background. Half thought in December 2012 that he stole the election.

But Richard Nixon was freely elected also? But then he was found out to have participated in a cover-up in the same way as Obama seems to have been caught in a cover-up now? Is it not correct fair and just treat the two presidents in exactly the same way?

And bear in mind Nixon's cover-up didn't involve the killing of innocent American lives?

Edited May 15, 2013 by midas

[cdnvic]

Let's try and keep this focused on the subject of the current story, and keep the 1970s out of it.

[chuckd]

How many Tea Party affiliated individuals have been arrested at demonstrations in comparison to left wing radicals, such as Occupy Wallstreet?...

Probably not as many as should be. So many of them carry outrageously racist placards and talk about taking up arms (which they generally have) to resist the government. Overall I think the government has been more than tolerant of these extremist right wingers.

Translation of all this for non-Americans. Basically the American far right wing party, the republicans, is trying to impeach our two time freely elected President Obama by wildly exaggerating some negative to Obama news stories into so called big scandals. They won't succeed and you can take that to the bank. They never accepted our first African American president as legitimate and they never will.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/05/12/the-coming-attempt-to-impeach-obama.html?obref=obinsite

>I can assure you that already in the Pavlovian swamps of the nutso

right, the glands are swelling. Theirs is a different planet from the

one you and I inhabit. Most Republican members of the House live in

districts where it is a given (among the white constituents, anyway)

that Obama is a socialist; that’s he bent on bringing the United States

of America down, or at least that he definitely doesn’t love the country

and the Constitution (nudge nudge) the way they do; that he’s not a

legitimate occupant of the Oval Office to start with. At the time he was

sworn in to his second term, 64 percent of Republicans agreed that Obama was “hiding important information” about his background. Half thought in December 2012 that he stole the election.

Is it your position that the right does not have the same rights to protest and carry placards that the left does?

From your post:

"Probably not as many as should be. So many of them carry outrageously racist placards and talk about taking up arms (which they generally have) to resist the government. Overall I think the government has been more than tolerant of these extremist right wingers."

[Jingthing]

Not really. I am just really against racism and from what I have seen, many tea party "patriots" are not. I have already stated my position. I don't think any groups like the tea party, of any political persuasion should have tax exempt status, and that includes religions. Actual CHARITIES that actually do good stuff for people, yes, they deserve special status. Obviously it is wrong to only harass SOME groups based on politics. Dream on if you think Obama ordered that. If he did and you can prove it, that's another matter.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Jingthing

[lomatopo]

OK, since the IRS "Scandal" appears acceptable here.

(now former) IRS Commission Chief, Douglas Shulman, appointed by George W. Bush addresses a congressional inquiry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYt7nEac0yM

Edited May 15, 2013 by lomatopo

[midas]

Not really. I am just really against racism and from what I have seen, many tea party "patriots" are not. I have already stated my position. I don't think any groups like the tea party, of any political persuasion should have tax exempt status, and that includes religions. Actual CHARITIES that actually do good stuff for people, yes, they deserve special status. Obviously it is wrong to only harass SOME groups based on politics. Dream on if you think Obama ordered that. If he did and you can prove it, that's another matter.

" Dream on if you think Obama ordered that. If he did and you can prove it, that's another matter."

I am the face of Team Obama's IRS attacks

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/05/13/am-face-team-obama-irs-attacks/

[Jingthing]

Not really. I am just really against racism and from what I have seen, many tea party "patriots" are not. I have already stated my position. I don't think any groups like the tea party, of any political persuasion should have tax exempt status, and that includes religions. Actual CHARITIES that actually do good stuff for people, yes, they deserve special status. Obviously it is wrong to only harass SOME groups based on politics. Dream on if you think Obama ordered that. If he did and you can prove it, that's another matter.

" Dream on if you think Obama ordered that. If he did and you can prove it, that's another matter."

I am the face of Team Obama's IRS attacks

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/05/13/am-face-team-obama-irs-attacks/

Nothing in there making Obama culpable. Nice diversion.

[Loptr]

Apparently Obama is now claiming the targeting of groups likely opposed to him by the IRS is 'Intolerable', which means it was tolerated till the s**t hit the fan, then on becoming public domain the search for a scapegoat to take the bullet can start in earnest. Incidentally one of the keywords the Liberals in the IRS targeted for special scrutiny was 'Patriot', how very very revealing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22529435

Not really. Most of the Patriot orgs are Tea Party affiliates. Tea Party harbors some extremely radical right wing elements and many of them are armed.

The IRS actually should crack down on ALL of these types of political orgs of any stripe and also the religious org exemption should be totally scrapped. Why should the American people, in a SECULAR country, subsidize ANY of that?

And as with everything else JT, that is solely YOUR opinion on the makeup of the Tea Party. I view it as grass roots Americans wanting to get back to small government and fiscal responsibility. If you view that as radical, then woe be unto any radical, zionist jews.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Loptr

[Scott]

An inflammatory post has been deleted. Please stay on-topic and keep personal comments out of the discussion.

[Jingthing]

And as with everything else JT, that is solely YOUR opinion on the makeup of the Tea Party. I view it as grass roots Americans wanting to get back to small government and fiscal responsibility. ...

No, it is not solely my opinion. It is the opinion of probably the majority of opponents of the tea party who aren't also right wing zealots. This guy is a bit extreme though but I can relate:

“I think it’s entirely legitimate to look at the tea party. I mean, here

are a group of people who are admittedly racist, who are overtly

political, who tried as best they can to harm President Obama … They are

the Taliban wing of American politics and we all ought to be a little

worried about them.”

http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/bond-naacp-tea-party/2013/05/14/id/504526#ixzz2TMLdIsaR

The Tea Party: on the road with America's right-wing radicals

The Tea Party is obsessed with myths about America's past. The Founding

Fathers are revered as gods, the constitution is sacrosanct, America was

uniquely established to be the land of the free.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/31/tea-party-sarah-palin-andrew-neil

Edited May 15, 2013 by Jingthing

[chuckd]

I seriously doubt if Obama thought of this first. My guess would be that somebody like Rahm Emmanuel or David Axelrod initially came up with the idea and may never have approached Obama with it in order to give him plausible deniability.

Obama got where he is by Axelrod's ability to have private divorce records unsealed on Obama's political opponents in Illinois. It is known as Chicago politics.

The former director of the IRA, Ron Shulman, would be the last person that might have known about any clandestine IRS work being performed. He was a Bush appointee and would not have supported any administration plan to investigate conservative 501©(4) groups. As the video posted by lomatopo explains, he was merely completing his term in office, which by law is designed to overlap presidential elections and appointments.

[midas]

Jingthing, on 15 May 2013 - 18:17, said:

Loptr, on 15 May 2013 - 18:02, said:

And as with everything else JT, that is solely YOUR opinion on the makeup of the Tea Party. I view it as grass roots Americans wanting to get back to small government and fiscal responsibility. ...

No, it is not solely my opinion. It is the opinion of probably the majority of opponents of the tea party who aren't also right wing zealots. This guy is a bit extreme though but I can relate:

Quote

“I think it’s entirely legitimate to look at the tea party. I mean, here

are a group of people who are admittedly racist, who are overtly

political, who tried as best they can to harm President Obama … They are

the Taliban wing of American politics and we all ought to be a little

worried about them.”

http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/bond-naacp-tea-party/2013/05/14/id/504526#ixzz2TMLdIsaR

Quote

The Tea Party: on the road with America's right-wing radicals

Quote

The Tea Party is obsessed with myths about America's past. The Founding

Fathers are revered as gods, the constitution is sacrosanct, America was

uniquely established to be the land of the free.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/31/tea-party-sarah-palin-andrew-neil

But surely voting in Barack Obama as President should not necessarily imply also that voters were prepared to give him and his Administration carte blanche authorisation to simply disregard or even depart from the Constitution ?

It's very clear by now after five years that Obama somehow believes the US Constitution can and should be “adapted “. But shouldn't such a dramatic step involve at least a nationwide referendum whereby any proposed changes or departures are clearly explained to the American public and they are then give them the chance to vote on that?

[Loptr]

There is nothing mysterious about politicians using every tool at their disposal in order to damage their opponents. Where the line is drawn is when they break the law. There are clear indications that the law was not only bent, but broken on several levels. The only question is how far down the rabbit hole the Congressional hearings will go in order to get to the root of who actually gave instructions to the IRS to pursue this avenue. As Mitch McConnell stated yesterday, they have merely scratched the surface on this scandal and that it does not stop at the IRS.

And more revelations from someone who fell victim of these attacks.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/05/15/exclusive-prominent-catholic-prof-claims-irs-audited-her-after-speaking-out-against-obama-and-demanded-to-know-who-was-paying-her/

VERY FRIGHTENING’: PROMINENT CATHOLIC PROF. CLAIMS IRS AUDITED HER AFTER SPEAKING OUT AGAINST OBAMA AND DEMANDED TO KNOW WHO WAS PAYING HER

• Noted professor and sociologist Dr. Anne Hendershott claims IRS may have targeted her with a 2010 audit
• IRS demanded to know which groups paid her and “what their politics were”
• Hendershott believes her articles critical of President Barack Obama’s policies and George Soros’ funding of liberal Catholic groups may have spawned the IRS audit
• Audit was emotionally and financially expensive and scared the professor into silence

All of the above are clear violations of a citizens 1st amendment rights.

How can anyone support such behavior, liberal or democrat? The answer is no one and the Senate Career Dems that have no lost love for Mr Obama are now lining up with the GOP to get to the bottom of yet another fiasco. The media, which have been in this administration's pocket for the last 5 years are now waking up and getting nasty after the AP / FBI probe was announced. It's gloves from here on in for Mr Obama.

[snarky66]

The comparisons to Watergate are compelling. The President's mouthpiece lies almost every single day. His arrogance tells him he can get away with anything.

Currently impeachment won't work because we don't currently hold the Senate. That could change after 2014. We need to slow walk the investigation.

Holder will be talking about the illegal wiretaps. It was his department that did it.

[snarky66]

Lois Lerner, the senior IRS official at the center of the decision to target tea party groups for burdensome tax scrutiny, signed paperwork granting tax-exempt status to the Barack H. Obama Foundation, a shady charity headed by the president’s half-brother that operated illegally for years.

According to the organization’s filings, Lerner approved the foundation’s tax status within a month of filing, an unprecedented timeline that stands in stark contrast to conservative organizations that have been waiting for more than three years, in some cases, for approval.

To quote the smartest man in the world "That's outrageous" But it wouldn't outrage a leftist radical.

[landtrout]

The comparisons to Watergate are compelling. The President's mouthpiece lies almost every single day. His arrogance tells him he can get away with anything.

Currently impeachment won't work because we don't currently hold the Senate. That could change after 2014. We need to slow walk the investigation.

Holder will be talking about the illegal wiretaps. It was his department that did it.

Any comparisons to Watergate are wistful and forced....by ANY rational analysis.

If you're finding this molehill in any way comparable to the mountainous subversion and corruption of the executive branch perpetrated by R. Nixon and his henchmen in the seventies, I would suggest that Lord Murdoch's 24/7 death-rattle whisper in your ear may have claimed another victim.

Take a walk. Take a nap. But by all means, take a break from the Noise.

Every president's mouthpiece lies "almost every single day".

That's the job description.

"His arrogance tells him he can get away with anything".

Are you sure that it's not the "radical Zionist Jews" telling him that?

Maybe it's the fluoride? His Kenyan Imam overlords?

Impeachment didn't "work" the last time you tried to use it to "correct" the will of the electorate either, despite the fact that you controlled the Senate by a wide margin.

Apparently, you can't even fool most of the people some of the time.

Judging by the results of last November's election, it's becoming difficult for you to fool damned near anybody......ever.

If I were you, I'd be looking to "slow walk" this one for sure.

It may just be the last best time you ever had!

[NeverSure]

No, it is not solely my opinion. It is the opinion of probably the majority of opponents of the tea party who aren't also right wing zealots. This guy is a bit extreme though but I can relate:

“I think it’s entirely legitimate to look at the tea party. I mean, here

are a group of people who are admittedly racist, who are overtly

political, who tried as best they can to harm President Obama … They are

the Taliban wing of American politics and we all ought to be a little

worried about them.”

http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/bond-naacp-tea-party/2013/05/14/id/504526#ixzz2TMLdIsaR

>

The Tea Party: on the road with America's right-wing radicals

The Tea Party is obsessed with myths about America's past. The Founding

Fathers are revered as gods, the constitution is sacrosanct, America was

uniquely established to be the land of the free.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/31/tea-party-sarah-palin-andrew-neil

In a country which guarantees free speech and freedom of peaceful assembly in its constitution, please tell me what the Tea Party has ever done that's illegal or even wrong? They don't riot, damage property, leave messes of their trash, or any any other way conduct themselves wrongfully. Yes there may be a nut or two in any group who "claims" to be one of them, but the masses of them who have assembled have caused no wrong.

They are exercising their rights just like any other political group. But you would like to shut them down only because you disagree with them. That's scary. We don't shut people down just because we disagree with them.

As for their believing in the written constitution, I can't understand anyone disagreeing with that. That's what a constitution is for - to maintain a certain set of rights and laws. If you don't like the constitution then it's up to you to get it changed. There is a process for that. Until then, it is the law of the land.

I won't have a gun debate with you other than to remind you that many gun owners are liberal democrats, and it was those who swung the recent vote in the Senate on that. The Republicans don't have a majority in the Senate. It took both parties to get rid of that. Also, a lot of the Republican Senators who voted against the gun legislation don't belong to the Tea Party.

I hope if a mod removes this for being off topic, it's realized that you started it and your posts should be removed too. The conversation has been running quite a while before I answered.

[Loptr]

In a country which guarantees free speech and freedom of peaceful assembly in its constitution, please tell me what the Tea Party has ever done that's illegal or even wrong? They don't riot, damage property, leave messes of their trash, or any any other way conduct themselves wrongfully. Yes there may be a nut or two in any group who "claims" to be one of them, but the masses of them who have assembled have caused no wrong.

The extent goes much further than just the Tea Party as there are over 500 reported cases. They basically went after anyone that they thought could cause problems for the Dems or spoke out against them. It is not feasible to believe that 2 rogue agents in Cincinnati are responsible for all these cases. The IRS would not go down this route without direction from above. The IRS is a division of the Treasury Dept, which reports directly to the White House. So did the order come from the Treasury Dept or from the White House?

For whoever said that there is little similarity in this case to the Nixon impeachment, I beg to differ. If the evidence of this fiasco leads back to the Oval Office, then it is exactly like the Nixon case.

From Article II of the Articles of Impeachment adopted by the House Judiciary Committee (emphasis added):

He has, acting personally and through his subordinates and agents, endeavoured to obtain from the Internal Revenue Service, in violation of the constitutional rights of citizens, confidential information contained in income tax returns for purposes not authorized by law, and to cause, in violation of the constitutional rights of citizens,income tax audits or other income tax investigations to be initiated or conducted in a discriminatory manner.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Loptr

[Ulysses G.]

In a country which guarantees free speech and freedom of peaceful assembly in its constitution, please tell me what the Tea Party has ever done that's illegal or even wrong? They don't riot, damage property, leave messes of their trash, or any any other way conduct themselves wrongfully. Yes there may be a nut or two in any group who "claims" to be one of them, but the masses of them who have assembled have caused no wrong.

They are exercising their rights just like any other political group. But you would like to shut them down only because you disagree with them. That's scary. We don't shut people down just because we disagree with them.

Between seizing journalist's phone records, covering up what happened in Benghazi, attacking political opponents by using the IRS and demonizing them with dishonest political rhetoric the White House narrative is spinning out of control.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts deleted.

[midas]

The comparisons to Watergate are compelling. The President's mouthpiece lies almost every single day. His arrogance tells him he can get away with anything.

Currently impeachment won't work because we don't currently hold the Senate. That could change after 2014. We need to slow walk the investigation.

Holder will be talking about the illegal wiretaps. It was his department that did it.

This sentiment is now spreading like wildfire, even through the left-wing media.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/15/obama-nixon-doj-ap-pentagon-papers_n_3278303.html

[Ulysses G.]

I'm hoping that the reporters ask him what he thinks of Politifact saying that he is being dishonest about the cover up and the Washington Post giving him 4 Pinocchio's. Those are not exactly conservative voices.

[NeverSure]

Acting IRS Commissioner resigns amid scandal of targeting conservatives. Link

[snarky66]

I hope questions 1-7 are the same question: mister president are you going to appoint a special prosecutor?

[Scott]

Inflammatory and baiting posts deleted.

[Jingthing]

Now the U.S. congress which does almost nothing but obstructionism has a new toy thing: Scandal Mania. So we'll go from doing nothing to doing less than nothing. Except to play politics with the supposed scandals. I'm sure that will please many of the small government extremists but in reality it's no SANE way to run a country.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Jingthing

[lomatopo]

The comparisons to Watergate are compelling. The President's mouthpiece lies almost every single day. His arrogance tells him he can get away with anything.

Currently impeachment won't work because we don't currently hold the Senate. That could change after 2014. We need to slow walk the investigation.

Holder will be talking about the illegal wiretaps. It was his department that did it.

Conviction would require a two-thirds majority vote in the Senate. How soon they forget.

With forty-five current Republicans, I'm not even sure there are twenty-two Senate seats, out of thirty-three in 2014 'up for grabs' (meaning where Republicans could have net wins) assuming everyone voted along party lines.

But don't let this keep you from some sort of wet-dream.

[NeverSure]

The comparisons to Watergate are compelling. The President's mouthpiece lies almost every single day. His arrogance tells him he can get away with anything.

Currently impeachment won't work because we don't currently hold the Senate. That could change after 2014. We need to slow walk the investigation.

Holder will be talking about the illegal wiretaps. It was his department that did it.

Conviction would require a two-thirds majority vote in the Senate. How soon they forget.

With forty-five current Republicans, I'm not even sure there are twenty-two Senate seats, out of thirty-three in 2014 'up for grabs' (meaning where Republicans could have net wins) assuming everyone voted along party lines.

But don't let this keep you from some sort of wet-dream.

Nixon resigned over Watergate rather than face impeachment. Many think he resigned to avoid the embarrassment of a trial, and some believe there was more to be discovered. Remember, Vice President Ford pardoned Nixon when he automatically became president upon Nixon's resignation. So it wasn't just impeachment and loss of the presidency, it was the possibility of prison for crimes, too.

Also remember, it is the House, not the Senate which draws and votes for the articles of impeachment. Then the Senate must conduct the trial. The Republicans do comfortably hold a majority in the House, and could impeach Obama.

Also, let be sure everyone is on the same page about impeachment. Impeachment is like indictment. Clinton was impeached by the House, but not convicted by the Senate. So yes, if enough serious matters come to light it's very possible for the House to impeach Obama. Then by law the Senate would have to try him. There are enough Republicans in the Senate to make things really hot for Obama if he in fact committed any crimes.

I promise you the Republicans are taking none of this lightly. Now Obama really stepped in it by getting his best friends, the mainstream media upset with him. He'll never have the same free ride he's had so far again.

So I would caution that we just sit back and watch. If there really is enough dirt and enough evidence and the House impeaches, Obama might just duck and run like Nixon did after cutting a deal with Vice President Biden for a pardon.

I'm not predicting that, but I'm not ruling it out as a possibility.

[Jingthing]

Republican pipe dreamers. What a train wreck of a "government" and I don't mean Obama.