Help Needed Urgently

[Thai-Aust]

My friend who is an American citizen has been living in Thailand in the past 30-40 years with a divorced Thai wife and a son (still under the same roof).

They were divorced for quite some times now (not sure how long but long, long) so I guess her sponsorship for him to stay here was canceled automatically. My poor friend had no idea he was staying without visa. Yesterday he was received a call from the police saying his visa had expired since he was divorced.

Can anyone kindly advise how to go for a retirement visa (he's 86 years old now and don't want to relocate to the US) or any kind of visa that will permit him to stay as a residence?

Will appreciate any advice.

[lopburi3]

This is not making much sense if he is still able to function as even if on a marriage or child extension of stay it has to be renewed every year so if not doing that he was obviously not legal.

In theory he must exit country paying overstay of 20,000 baht before he can apply for retirement extension so it is either stay as is or apply for a single entry non immigrant O visa and go the retirement extension meeting the 800k/65k or combination requirement.

What exactly did this police "call" consist of (if you know)? Did they not tell him what to do? Immigration might grant humanitarian consideration if unable to do this financially but that would have to be on merits.

[RubbaJohnny]

I BELIVE IT IS STILL 800,000 Bahts in a Thai Bank Account.Ora comparable pension I think 65000 per month .I believe US citizens can certify this at Bangkok embassy.

When I applied it had to be an account with instant access and I was asked to show the transfer into Thailand from overseas.

I am sure experts here who have more recently been through the process will help and correct any omissions or fee increases.I see mario has posted on this.

Numerous copies were required and about 5000 baht fee.I also paid 1900 baht or an extension as it was near the expiry of the previous stamp.

I humbly suggest that if he has plenty of funds but finds getting around difficult he may wish to use one of the visa services.You can of course do it all yourself but does involve alot of running around and endless copies.There may be achance to get a non O visa to vist the son if still a minor? In which case he needs 400k in a Thai bank for 2 months or visit a consul outside Siam eg Kula Lumpur or Savanakhet

I recommend if you are helping you read the excellent section here on recent reports on obtaining a visa in the region pinned to the top of visa section

Good luck

Edited May 14, 2013 by RubbaJohnny

[NancyL]

Oh my, this man does need to get this problem resolved ASAP.

Is he currently on overstay? If so, for how long?

Does he have enough income or savings to qualify for a visa extension due to retirement -- that's either an income of 65,000 baht/month or 800,000 baht on deposit in a Thai bank, or a combination of these two methods.

[Mario2008]

He will need to pay a fine of 20,000 baht for overstay and leave the country. Than he can get a new non-O visa in for example Laos or Kuala Lumphur and return to Thailand based on his son (if born during the marriage) or based on retirement.

Based on son the same financial requirements as based on marriage, based on retirement he needs to show an income of 65,000 or 800,000 in the bank or a combination of yearly income and money in the bank together totaling 800,000.

I would talk to immigration first and see what they can do, as he has a Thai son and that is the same category as being married to a Thai. Maybe that he has a son is not known to immigration? Given his age immigration should be lenient.

[RubbaJohnny]

Lopburi is more of an expert than I so I will defer to his good advice

[Thai-Aust]

This is not making much sense if he is still able to function as even if on a marriage or child extension of stay it has to be renewed every year so if not doing that he was obviously not legal.

In theory he must exit country paying overstay of 20,000 baht before he can apply for retirement extension so it is either stay as is or apply for a single entry non immigrant O visa and go the retirement extension meeting the 800k/65k or combination requirement.

What exactly did this police "call" consist of (if you know)? Did they not tell him what to do? Immigration might grant humanitarian consideration if unable to do this financially but that would have to be on merits.

I don't know much about his circumstances or whether he's been renewing his visa every year. With the US pension I guess he's quite capable of meeting those 800k/65k requirements.

I BELIVE IT IS STILL 800,000 Bahts in a Thai Bank Account.Ora comparable pension I think 65000 per month .I believe US citizens can certify this at Bangkok embassy.

When I applied it had to be an account with instant access and I was asked to show the transfer into Thailand from overseas.

I am sure experts here who have more recently been through the process will help and correct any omissions or fee increases.I see mario has posted on this.

Numerous copies were required and about 5000 baht fee.I also paid 1900 baht or an extension as it was near the expiry of the previous stamp.

I humbly suggest that if he has plenty of funds but finds getting around difficult he may wish to use one of the visa services.You can of course do it all yourself but does involve alot of running around and endless copies.There may be achance to get a non O visa to vist the son if still a minor? In which case he needs 400k in a Thai bank for 2 months or visit a consul outside Siam eg Kula Lumpur or Savanakhet

I recommend if you are helping you read the excellent section here on recent reports on obtaining a visa in the region pinned to the top of visa section

Good luck

He's quite healthy but doesn't know much about the steps/info he needs to take. With poor Thai language he finds it difficult to get help from the locals, even from his own son (40 something y.o.) who doesn't seem to care.

He will need to pay a fine of 20,000 baht for overstay and leave the country. Than he can get a new non-O visa in for example Laos or Kuala Lumphur and return to Thailand based on his son (if born during the marriage) or based on retirement.

Based on son the same financial requirements as based on marriage, based on retirement he needs to show an income of 65,000 or 800,000 in the bank or a combination of yearly income and money in the bank together totaling 800,000.

I would talk to immigration first and see what they can do, as he has a Thai son and that is the same category as being married to a Thai. Maybe that he has a son is not known to immigration? Given his age immigration should be lenient.

So in summary, I'll tell him to leave the country first and then apply for non O visa based on retirement. Just 1 question, does a retirement visa have to extended on a regular basis?

Thanks all for your help, really appreciate it.

[PoorSucker]

Just 1 question, does a retirement visa have to extended on a regular basis?

Yes, must be renewed every year.

[Thai-Aust]

Just 1 question, does a retirement visa have to extended on a regular basis?

Yes, must be renewed every year.

Thanks.

[lopburi3]

As said the visa will only provide a 90 day stay and during the last 30 days he needs to extend. If using pension he gets form from Embassy prior to going to immigration - if using just bank account update passbook and get letter from bank manager of account balance. Depending on where he lives/immigration office used he may only require one or two copies of items and once done is easy enough if he not easily confused but would help to have some assistance at least the first time. He also will need to report address every 90 days on a TM.47 form and depending on where may be able to mail or have someone take for him.

If you would like to help him when the time comes just ask questions and we will try to provide answers.

[RubbaJohnny]

Good stuff Lopburi may I just add as perhaps his helper is unaware.

the TM 47 is the white arrival//departure card stapled into your passport upon arrival.

I will be happy to drive the old gentleman to our local office if he is in C Rai .

PM if you need help.

[Thai-Aust]

As said the visa will only provide a 90 day stay and during the last 30 days he needs to extend. If using pension he gets form from Embassy prior to going to immigration - if using just bank account update passbook and get letter from bank manager of account balance. Depending on where he lives/immigration office used he may only require one or two copies of items and once done is easy enough if he not easily confused but would help to have some assistance at least the first time. He also will need to report address every 90 days on a TM.47 form and depending on where may be able to mail or have someone take for him.

If you would like to help him when the time comes just ask questions and we will try to provide answers.

now I'm confused.

The retirement visa only permit to stay 90 days? With my question asked above re regular extension, the answer from poorsuker is 1 year.

Could anyone elaborate on this, how long exactly can he stay on the retirement visa before the extension is needed?

[Thai-Aust]

Good stuff Lopburi may I just add as perhaps his helper is unaware.

the TM 47 is the white arrival//departure card stapled into your passport upon arrival.

I will be happy to drive the old gentleman to our local office if he is in C Rai .

PM if you need help.

Thanks for this, you were right, I had no idea what that form was.

And we live in BKK so a visit to your office is quite far off

[lopburi3]

He is wrong - the TM.47 is a report of address required every 90 days if you do not leave Thailand - the arrival card is a TM.6

There is no retirement visa - there is a long stay visa but that would require application in USA for this person. But he does not have to do that and can extend yearly once he obtains a non immigrant O visa entry (which any Consulate can provide him - or even immigration with an extra stamp after a new entry). These only allow a 90 day stay so you then extend for a year.

[Eddy B]

If he applies for a retirement visa it is a granted 1 year stay in Thailand that needs to be re-applied for every year. The 90 days is just a TM.47 document that is available in paper form from the immigration office or on-line. You have to send this every 90 days plus relevant copies of passport pages to your local immigration office, with a self addressed envelope with your house address. They will send you back the part of the document at the bottom as a reciept. You can go in person but mail is easier, plus make sure if it is mailed it is by recored mail ( ask for EMS ) they will understand.

[RubbaJohnny]

He's correct of course I was thinking of the TM 6 my apologies I think I'll bow out to the experts

[Thai-Aust]

Thanks for all your help.

Will let you know the result. Hopefully my friend doesn't have to travel too far to get his non-O visa.

[lopburi3]

The best plan is a flight out to a city such as Kuala Lumpur or Penang (Penang has agents to help obtain visa) - this provides easy payment of overstay fine on departure and opportunity to obtain a single entry non immigrant O visa for return.

[Suradit69]

He is wrong - the TM.47 is a report of address required every 90 days if you do not leave Thailand - the arrival card is a TM.6

There is no retirement visa - there is a long stay visa but that would require application in USA for this person. But he does not have to do that and can extend yearly once he obtains a non immigrant O visa entry (which any Consulate can provide him - or even immigration with an extra stamp after a new entry). These only allow a 90 day stay so you then extend for a year.

Wouldn't it be better to delete some of the erroneous, confusing posts. For someone who needs concise information, the responses should be limited to those who actually know what they are talking about. This isn't really supposed to be an opinion thread. Unfortunately, the conflicting information often generated by these appeals for help end up being a mishmash of fact and error that leaves the OP as lost as he was when he first asked for help.

Edited May 14, 2013 by Suradit69

[market trader]

I usually have a fairly good knowledge of what is required for various visas etc. But after reading all the comments even I have developed brain fog.

[asiaexpat]

Trust the moderators and ignore the others. TV is well know as a forum for" old know it alls " that are out of touch with about everything. The moderators research before answering to be sure the information is as correct as possible.

[NancyL]

It would help, too, if the posters used correct terminology. The OP's friend should obtain a single-entry 90 day O visa at a Thai embassy/consulate in the region. Then, he returns to Thailand and his passport is stamped with a 90-day "permission to stay". During the final 30 days of that permission to stay he goes to his local immigration office (must be the local one, not one in another province) and then EXTENDS that permission to stay for 12 months due to retirement, after demonstrating financial worth with either an Income letter from his country's embassy/consulate in Thailand or an account in a Thai bank that's been aged for at least 60 days. With future extensions, the bank account should age 90 days.

Once he enters the country on that single-entry O visa, he never has to leave again. Instead, he files the TM47 90 day reports with his local immigration office.

Also, OP don't assume he easily meets the income requirements with a U.S. pension. Many American retirees are here with Social Security being their only source of pension income. The average I've seen is somewhere between 30,000 - 40,000 baht/month -- less if he cut his American working life short by moving to Thailand 30-40 years ago.

If his pension is less than 65,000 baht/month, then he'll have to use the "combo method" of making up the shortfall by having funds in a Thai bank account. If, for example, his pension income is 32,500 baht/month, he'd need to have a bank account of 400,000 baht. A little more would be a good idea to compensate for exchange rate fluctuations.

It's doubtful the OP's friend is going to qualify for a visa/extension based on having a Thai son when that son is 40 years old, unless that son has obvious problems (like physical or mental handicap) that requires the OP's friend to care for him.

Oh, he is probably on overstay and should have cash ready to give to Thai immigration at the airport when he leaves. The fine is 500 baht/day with a maximum of 20,000 baht.

If this fine is a hardship, he could ask to be arrested where he'd be lodged in the Immigration Detention Center and eventually get before a judge. By all reports, the judges reduce the overstay fine substantially. It's doubtful, though, that an 86 year old man is going to going to tolerate the conditions in IDC and, besides, the Thai authorities don't want to jail someone that old.

I'd strongly suggest he visit the American Embassy for advice if he doesn't have 20,000 baht available to pay his fine on exiting Thailand. They can help to "manage" the arrest and expedite his case. Best to see them before turning himself in.

Edited May 15, 2013 by NancyL

[lopburi3]

With an income of 32.5k per months he would have total of 390k so would need 410k or more in bank account as total must be 800k or more for the year.

[jrtmedic]

If the gentleman in question has neglected/forgotten to renew/apply for an extension to stay I wonder if he has a valid passport.

Maybe worth checking ?

[NancyL]

If the gentleman in question has neglected/forgotten to renew/apply for an extension to stay I wonder if he has a valid passport.

Maybe worth checking ?

Good point -- he shouldn't be afraid to visit the Am. Embassy to get a new one.

Contrary to popular opinion they aren't going to call Thai authorities about his overstay, unless when they do a U.S. criminal records check they find a warrant for his arrest. And even then, they'll only get excited if it looks like a serious enough charge that some U.S. law enforcement agency is actually going to send someone to Thailand to escort him back to the U.S. Then, they may call Thai authorities about the overstay just to keep him secure in a Thai jail until they can arrange to extradite him. I doubt he's wanted for anything serious in the U.S. if he's been here for 30-40 years as the OP says.

If he doesn't have a serious charge pending in the U.S., he'll get his new passport in a couple weeks, along with a little verbal warning to get his overstay straightened out pronto.

Edited May 15, 2013 by NancyL

[evadgib]

For correct forms/numbers see this pinned topic:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/631223-immigration-templates/

[Thai-Aust]

It would help, too, if the posters used correct terminology. The OP's friend should obtain a single-entry 90 day O visa at a Thai embassy/consulate in the region. Then, he returns to Thailand and his passport is stamped with a 90-day "permission to stay". During the final 30 days of that permission to stay he goes to his local immigration office (must be the local one, not one in another province) and then EXTENDS that permission to stay for 12 months due to retirement, after demonstrating financial worth with either an Income letter from his country's embassy/consulate in Thailand or an account in a Thai bank that's been aged for at least 60 days. With future extensions, the bank account should age 90 days.

I'd strongly suggest he visit the American Embassy for advice if he doesn't have 20,000 baht available to pay his fine on exiting Thailand. They can help to "manage" the arrest and expedite his case. Best to see them before turning himself in.

Thanks so much. It really helps.

After 2 days of police visiting today he had 1 year stamped on his residence book. This is new info to me, I wasn't aware that he had the book.

It turned out that he forgot to report to the police last March, that was the reason why he's got a frightening call from them. The good thing coming out of this however is he was aware of his independence - no longer needs to put up with his wife's threats.

I'm sure he has no problems with the financial requirement. We plan to go to the Immigration to find out his status as advised by Mario and Lopburi earlier. If he overstayed, next step is to leave and get non O visa from somewhere.

Could anyone kindly suggest which Immigration we should go to check his status? And if he holds a residence book, does this mean he has a residency status therefore no longer need non-O visa?

[lopburi3]

If he has PR (permanent residence) that police visit may have resolved his legal issues - he does not need extension of visa if on PR and totally different rules. It seems he just forgot to report and they have taken care of if for him so just needs a reminder next year? It used to be easy to obtain PR but much harder now so not many on forum with knowledge but there is a long thread running on it if you want to post into it as am sure some get updates on such posts.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/74654-cameratas-guide-to-the-permanent-residence-process/?p=801053#entry801053

[Mario2008]

Per above, a residence book means PR and he no longer needs extension of stay from immigration. But he does need to report to the police every 5 years to update his book. That is why the police came around (and not immigration).

More information in the thread given above by the experts who have PR, but it seems not to be a very serious issue that he didn't report on time.

[Thai-Aust]

It seems he doesn't need to go to check his status at the Immigration.

Thanks for ALL the advice, in particular Lopburi and Mario. You have no idea how you made a mature Japanese-American guy in a strange country very happy.