Beware Of Asian Credit Card Fraud

[Weho]

I was recently on a delayed flight, and had to stop at Tokyo airport for 1/2 day. I used my American Express credit card one time, at a convenience store for around $5. I just got an email from AMEX, suspecting fraud. When I slid the card, the machine copied the information from the card, and the crooks made a copy of my card, then they tried to use it to spend $200 at a Tokyo supermarket... but AMEX fortunately declined the charge. Now I have to get a replacement card.

I don't know how one can try to prevent this... but by signing up for their email notification, I was notified within a day of the suspicious transaction, which is pretty good.

[ding]

email notification? Good on you! I wonder if other cards are doing that? I better check mine.

[soic]

The following is some information that a friend of mine sent me in Kuwait. It's a real problem everywhere. I've also attached some pictures...

Please find below some of the ATM tips, which would be highly useful to you.

Bank ATM's Converted to Steal IDs of Bank Customers

A team of organized criminals are installing equipment on legitimate bank ATM's in at least 2 regions to steal both the ATM card number and the PIN. The team sits nearby in a car receiving the information transmitted wirelessly over weekends and evenings from equipment they install on the front of the ATM (see photos). If you see an attachment like this, do not use the ATM and report it immediately to the bank using the 800 number or phone on the front of the ATM.

The equipment used to capture your ATM card number and PIN are cleverly disguised to look like normal ATM equipment. A "skimmer" is mounted to the front of the normal ATM card slot that reads the ATM card number and transmits it to the criminals sitting in a nearby car.

At the same time, a wireless camera is disguised to look like a leaflet holder and is mounted in a position to view ATM PIN entries.

The thieves copy the cards and use the PIN numbers to withdraw thousands from many accounts in a very short time directly from the bank ATM.

[steveromagnino]

The thieves copy the cards and use the PIN numbers to withdraw thousands from many accounts in a very short time directly from the bank ATM. [/color]

Good point, although in this case, this is CC fraud. The way the gangs do it supposedly according to a VISA briefing I got when setting up a new credit card here recently, was that they tap into the line when the EDC is doing processing and can somehow 'hear' the account details.

The solution is the new chip cards, like what is now being issued, and that solves this security issue.

Of course, anyone with the number and image of the card can still do fraud, but it makes life a little more secure.

[GuestHouse]

And again - BE AWARE - A US/UK/Eurpoean credit card will provide you with protection against fraudulent use - You only need demonstrate that you did not give permission for the withdrawls and the credit card company will refund the theft.

A THAI credit card does not have this protection.

Fraudulent use on a Thai credit card is down to the card holder.

[Nordlys]

A THAI credit card does not have this protection.

Fraudulent use on a Thai credit card is down to the card holder.

But my credit card issuing Thai bank says I am protected. They don't seem to like to advertise it publicly though.

They said they'd require a proof if any of the transaction on the statement is not mine but I don't know how you prove a shopping you didn't do. But isn't this procedure same with any credit card issued anywhere else in the world?

Does anyone have any first hand experience or heard of anyone whose credit card being fraudulently used and not been compensated for that by the Thai credit card company?

Edited March 23, 2006 by Nordlys

[GuestHouse]

But my credit card issuing Thai bank says I am protected. They don't seem to like to advertise it publicly though.

They said they'd require a proof if any of the transaction on the statement is not mine but I don't know how you prove a shopping you didn't do. But isn't this procedure same with any credit card issued anywhere else in the world?

Does anyone have any first hand experience or heard of anyone whose credit card being fraudulently used and not been compensated for that by the Thai credit card company?

The reason I post this warning so often is because I have a very good friend who lost a great deal of money to a Thai Credit Card company over fraudulent use of her card.

The problem is, what constitutes 'proof' and what consitutes a 'report'.

She had her card stolen over a holiday weekend. She was responsible for every single charge between discovering the loss of her card, and presenting a police report (The actual paper report) at the bank. Her credit limit was substantial as she has a high paying job and a good credit history (Using the card on overseas expensed trips etc had racketted up her credit limit).

She had called the emergency number and they had told her they could do nothing until she filed a report. Think of that over a holiday weekend!

Compare that with my UK Credit card.

Twice in twenty years I have experienced fraudulent use, both times I only discovered this after receiving my statement, and on one occassion this was two months after the fraud (I was travelling on business).

I called the bank, the imediately cancelled the card, placed the charges on 'hold-contested' and removed them as soon as they received my written statement that I had not authorized the usage.

I would not even consider a Thai credit card - What they call protection, pittiful when compared to a card from back home.

[samran]

I hope the protections here change...

One of the greatest freedoms I have here since moving back is not needing a credit card for my life in Thailand. A healthy bank account, budgeting and visa electron are all I need.

I do have UK and Australian CC's for online purchases, and a stash of moulah in each country to service the debts. But I use them rarely and only for online purchases or in the odd emergency.

And as gueshouse says, their service in this regard is excellent should anything go wrong (which has happened...they actually rang me!!)

[britmaveric]

Noticing a trend - any huge purchase, it seems the banks are requiring you to call them to authorize the charge. Last few times I saw this when I was paying for accomodations. (fraud alert for SEA was the response)

[sting01]

About CC problem, here is story that happened to me 3 month ago :

I go to MBK with a thai friend of mine and get a drink a Black Canyon coffe 2 nd floor (the one near the the BTS enter).

The bill was about 400 bht, as usual I do not have much cash so I paid with SCB Debit Card. That card was issued in 2002 and do NOT have the design of the actual (was black with some personnage).

First they used the terminal, then asked me to sign the slip. Quite normal, but I noticed the number (16 digits) was on the slip. Hey I will not give my numbers + my sign , it's like to give directly my card. So I simply refused to sign, explaining why, asked them to cancel the transaction, and paid in cash.

4 days after (mean after the week end), I go to take money to the ATM, and obviously it was not what I expected on my accout. So I did a trip to my bank (quite far), and asked to have thel ast operation (bank is SCB in Tong Lohr), the day before an amount corresponding to the Black canyon bill was taken from my account. After verification it appeared it was really Black canyon coffe MBK.

So I went there, ready to have a good fight (I am 1.90 and former rugby player, former french special forces also, so no problem for a fight). They were in shock to see me ... I did not reconise the people, but it was obvious one at least reconise him. I started to claim for the manager and explain ... He just smiled, asked me if I have an offcial statement of my US based bank (what ######ing US base bank, I am french and my bank is in bangkok) ... When I told him (show him) it was an SCB debit card, he said " then it's simply a mistake, we were confused about the clients" and given me back the money. Was very simple.

So, they simply take small amounts from tourist (400 bht = 10 $), knowing people when back to USA will never complain (can be the bar fee paid by the Husband and he certainly do not nedd the wife know he went there, can be the wonderfull necklace buy by the WIfe and she do not want the Husband know ...). So be really carefull when using CC or DC.

[Nordlys]

Hi sting01,

Did SCB Thonglor tell you if you are protected from the fraud and you might be entitled to compensation if that transaction is proven fraudulent?

GuestHouse, that is outrageous your friend needed a police report to cancel the stolen card. Which credit card is that and when did that happen? For my Thai credit card, all it takes is a single phone call to a call center that operates 24 hours a day (but not toll-free).

BTW I believe you live in Italy if I remember correctly. I'm in love with that country and thinking of visiting there again perhaps end of this year. What is the risk of using credit card in Italy as a tourist? There seems to be so many reports of all kind of scams, pickpocketing, mugging, etc in Italy. Do you hear a lot of reports like sting01 experienced in Italy?

I have an impression Thai credit card comapnies/credit card issuing banks do not really want to publicize their protection policy/insurance (if any) out of fear that some credit card users will take advantage of the system and abuse it by claiming their own credit card shopping to be a fraudulent, just like the insurance scam.

Edited March 24, 2006 by Nordlys

[GuestHouse]

GuestHouse, that is outrageous your friend needed a police report to cancel the stolen card. Which credit card is that and when did that happen? For my Thai credit card, all it takes is a single phone call to a call center that operates 24 hours a day (but not toll-free).

I've just asked and she tells me SCB, and she absolutely needed a police report before they would cancel the card.

I've not had a problem with my credit cards in Italy, but I caught a guy trying to pick my pockets on the H bus in Rome and a lot of stuff disapears out of the office.

Pick-pockets and theives in Restaurants/Cafes and seemingly offices too are a real problem here.

[Nordlys]

I've just asked and she tells me SCB, and she absolutely needed a police report before they would cancel the card.

But my wife also lost a SCB credit card once (in Thailand) and had it cancelled and reissued without a police report.

[GuestHouse]

Perhaps the difference is a lost card, and one that when reported stolen was clearly being used.

[Nordlys]

Yes, my wife said she just misplaced it somewhere in the condo and gave up the search, so cancelled it and had the bank reissue a new card. But I don't get it. It doesn't seem to make sense to me that they don't allow the card to be suspended/terminated immediately for their red tape when you are at greater urgency to do so with credit card theft than with loss and they hold you responsible for the damage incurred while waiting to obtain a police report. If this is right, I will cancel my card immediately.

I'll try to ascertain this with SCB next time I'm at the bank. They never seem to be able to give us a straightforward answer on credit card protection policy though.

SCB warned us specifically against the use of credit card in Malaysia, BTW.

Edited March 24, 2006 by Nordlys

[ding]

My US card cancelled Thai hotel charges with one call (I also always follow up in writing). I had to cancel and it was within the hotel's allowed time. They ignored emails. Still they charged me, and my CC company put it on hold/dispute and didn't pay.

Those pics of ATM recording devices are helpful. I always cover the keypad with 2 hands and type the PIN with different fingers.

Edited March 25, 2006 by ding

[stats]

MY thai CC was replaced once for the same fraud reason but mine was using it online.. then got to wait for another week for the new card to arrive ..but luckily ive got othe CC's from other bank for backups...