Is There Any Real Benefit To Having Thai Residency?

[BikeThailand]

I've lived here for 11 years and I've had my own company and continuous work permit for 8 years but my wife just let it expire accidentally, though I am getting new one tomorrow. People talk of Thai Residency but I haven't found any real benefit to getting it and from what I have heard you can be expected to prove one or more of the following:

• Considerable Thai Language Skills - I have a lengthy vocabulary that gets me by but not much when it comes to full conversations.
• Married to Thai National - My girlfriend of 7 years married me last year so, check.
• Sometimes substantial "Tea Money" - Can't do that.
• Work Permit for 8 years or more - Not sure if this is true and if so whether or not I would have to start over again since it expired but my visas have been consistent
• Still requires a Re-Entry Visa when leaving the Kingdom?

Anyone know the real deal with it and what, if any, benefits there are? Requiring a Re-Entry Visa doesn't sound like you are a resident but maybe that is true in other countries too.

Thanks for any information you may be able to extend.

[Mario2008]

If married to Thai, wait a few years and consider directly applying for Thai nationalitiy instead of PR.

Can't asnwer your question about the WP. Better contact immirgation about that, how serious they will take it.

[Gerald14]

You will have to get PR first before considering to apply for Thai Nationality. If you think PR is hard, try an interview to become Thai and sing the national anthem in front of a Thai panel!! If you want to apply for PR it will not have any benefits except that you do not need a yearly visa, but you still need an re-entry every time you want to travel, so what is the point?? It will cost about THB 100,000 if you are married double if you are not. A yearly visa costs 1,900 think about it!!!

[Arkady]

You will have to get PR first before considering to apply for Thai Nationality. If you think PR is hard, try an interview to become Thai and sing the national anthem in front of a Thai panel!! If you want to apply for PR it will not have any benefits except that you do not need a yearly visa, but you still need an re-entry every time you want to travel, so what is the point?? It will cost about THB 100,000 if you are married double if you are not. A yearly visa costs 1,900 think about it!!!

Since 2008 you may apply for Thai nationality without having PR first, if you have a Thai wife which also exempts you from singing the National and Royal anthems. The requirements are quite similar, i.e. need a job in Thailand paying at least 40k a month for at least 3 years. The fee for citizenship is only B5k plus another B1k on success for the certificate. The documentary requirements for PR are slightly more onerous, e.g. police clearance from home country required but not for citizenship, because the Immigration Bureau sets them for PR and they are a lot more anal than the people at the MOI and constantly think up new ways to torment applicants, whereas the requirements for citizenship change only rarely. A Thai spouse is not necessary for PR and you need to have been working for only 3 complete tax years, not 8. Paying tea money to obtain PR is not most people's experience, although I can't say for sure it never happens. Sometimes naive applicants may pay off unscrupulous lawyers or agents who tell them a bribe is needed but pocket the whole lot themselves.

The benefits of having permanent residence or being a citizen of your adopted country rather than being a temporary resident who has to a apply for a new visa extension every year are fairly obvious. If you need to ask, then PR or citizenship are probably not for you. But for those who are interested there is loads of information here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/74654-cameratas-guide-to-the-permanent-residence-process/ and here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/121353-story-of-my-thai-citizenship-application/page-25?hl=%2Bthai+%2Bcitizenship+%2Bnationality+%2Bpermanent+%2Bresidence#entry5838220. Good luck.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Arkady

[roiethome]

Unless you are young, there is little advantage of taking Thai citizenship. Retirement visa is 1,900THB, citizenship minimum of 100K.

Are you going to live for another 50 years ???

[Mario2008]

Unless you are young, there is little advantage of taking Thai citizenship. Retirement visa is 1,900THB, citizenship minimum of 100K.

Are you going to live for another 50 years ???

Citizenship is much cheaper and has many obvoius advantages. Don't confuse it with PR.

[samran]

Depends what you value really.

If you want to take a strict bean counter approach, the yes, you might as well not take it.

For those who work, intend on staying longer and not have to leave the country between jobs, or those who just value certainty, then the equation changes.

The re-entry permit is a slight throwback to times past, but if you never leave Thailand, you don't need it.

[terryp]

What on Earth For?????? unless you are from an even lower standard of 3rd World Country ....I laugh at all the people who want to be Citizens of this insanity..take it from me even if you pass all the idiotic tests YOU WILL ALWAYS BE A FOREIGNER here, the most important thing you need in Thailand is your air fare out

As shown below I say again WHY? ... I did most of this on a 1 year Non B with a 4 million baht company..the rest I dont care about after 40 years here

Benefits of Permanent Residence

• No need to leave the country within 7 days if employment is terminated.
• No need to extend or renew any visa, or report your address every 90 days.
  But you do have to obtain a re-entry visa if you go out of the country.
• Allowed to buy a condominium without having to remit funds from abroad.
• Entitled to apply for citizenship after 5 years.
• Entitled to be appointed a director of a public limited company even if the
  majority of other directors on the Board are non-Thai.
• Supposedly easier to obtain a work permit.
• Allowed to go through the "Thai passports only" channel at airport Immigration.

Edited May 17, 2013 by terryp

[Neeranam]

What on Earth For?????? unless you are from an even lower standard of 3rd World Country ....I laugh at all the people who want to be Citizens of this insanity..take it from me even if you pass all the idiotic tests YOU WILL ALWAYS BE A FOREIGNER here, the most important thing you need in Thailand is your air fare out

There are many reasons I want to be a Thai citizen. What idiotic tests?

I feel you haven't a clue what you're talking about. Maybe you come from a country that doesn't allow dual citizenship?

Arkady above stated very clearly what is required.

If you get citizenship then obviously you won't be a foreigner.

[falang07]

You will be a foreigner in here forever, no matter what documents you have, it is what you are inside and how you look to them.

[Arkady]

You will be a foreigner in here forever, no matter what documents you have, it is what you are inside and how you look to them.

I don't know how much longer I will have to wait and it does take rather a long time but I am looking forward to becoming a Thai citizen. Singing unaccompanied to a roomful of senior bureaucrats is a huge challenge and an unforgettable experience that I am glad and proud to have gone through. I will be a Thai Farang, just like there are Thai Chinese, Thai Indians, Thai Look Kreung and Chinese Americans etc. So what! I already have PR, which I obtained when the total fees were Bt 52,000 and enjoy the certainty and reduced hassle with Immigration that provides. It proved extremely useful during a period of unemployment when I was under 50 and not married to a Thai. Being a Thai citizen will allow me to work without a work permit, own land in my own name, have no further truck with Immigration, even vote after 5 years - all for the princely sum of Bt 6,000 including the naturalisation certificate. Why would you not want that, if you plan to stay permanently? Why do Chinese immigrants want UK, US, Canadian or Australian citizenship? Because they live there - duh.

For those who have Thai wives, you have the privilege of getting extensions based on marriage that allow you to work. So PR might not be so worthwhile. However, you can skip that phase and apply for citizenship directly.

If you don't want PR or citizenship, don't apply. Simple as that. Most of the detractors tend to be people who are unqualified for either.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Arkady

[Arkady]

What on Earth For?????? unless you are from an even lower standard of 3rd World Country ....I laugh at all the people who want to be Citizens of this insanity..take it from me even if you pass all the idiotic tests YOU WILL ALWAYS BE A FOREIGNER here, the most important thing you need in Thailand is your air fare out

As shown below I say again WHY? ... I did most of this on a 1 year Non B with a 4 million baht company..the rest I dont care about after 40 years here

Benefits of Permanent Residence

• No need to leave the country within 7 days if employment is terminated.
• No need to extend or renew any visa, or report your address every 90 days.

  But you do have to obtain a re-entry visa if you go out of the country.

• Allowed to buy a condominium without having to remit funds from abroad.
• Entitled to apply for citizenship after 5 years.
• Entitled to be appointed a director of a public limited company even if the

  majority of other directors on the Board are non-Thai.

• Supposedly easier to obtain a work permit.
• Allowed to go through the "Thai passports only" channel at airport Immigration.

I take it that your gripe is that you don't have the air fare out then. I hope you will get that together soon and your bitterness will abate when you are back in your home country.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Arkady

[scorecard]

What on Earth For?????? unless you are from an even lower standard of 3rd World Country ....I laugh at all the people who want to be Citizens of this insanity..take it from me even if you pass all the idiotic tests YOU WILL ALWAYS BE A FOREIGNER here, the most important thing you need in Thailand is your air fare out

As shown below I say again WHY? ... I did most of this on a 1 year Non B with a 4 million baht company..the rest I dont care about after 40 years here

Benefits of Permanent Residence

• No need to leave the country within 7 days if employment is terminated.
• No need to extend or renew any visa, or report your address every 90 days.

  But you do have to obtain a re-entry visa if you go out of the country.

• Allowed to buy a condominium without having to remit funds from abroad.
• Entitled to apply for citizenship after 5 years.
• Entitled to be appointed a director of a public limited company even if the

  majority of other directors on the Board are non-Thai.

• Supposedly easier to obtain a work permit.
• Allowed to go through the "Thai passports only" channel at airport Immigration.

And you can own a gun in your own name!

Plus, if you have a wife and children here (in my case children and grandchildren) then you have the peace of mind that you don't need ever to apply for visas, always wondering whether the next visa application might run into some new difficulties, etc.

For some (me included) that's very very important, for others maybe not so important, each to their own.

[Morakot]

Real Benefit: Certainty.

[bangkokburning]

You save b1900 annually but counter this with all the costs of obtaining PR down to every satang. The taxis, visits, food, forms, translations, whatever...

But...

- if you are 40 and you live to be 85...

1900 x 45 is b85,500

Gerald estimates the costs at 100k - so financially, it doesn't even make sense.

Certainty? More than an annual extension but citizenship it ain't! Can be repealed any time by govt decree. How many coups in Thailand now? New constitution every year.

Then you have the hassle of actually obtaining PR above the cost.

It would br one thing if it was allnstraight forward and assured process but even after all the money and time and hassle there is no guarantee whatsoever it will come to pass.

Unless it really helps you in your very sucessful business, just appears to be a waste of time and money from here.

Edited May 17, 2013 by bangkokburning

[bangkokburning]

Half the list isn't even relevant if you ate not working, so you in ten years no?

I go thru Thai only channel with the wife all the time (marriage O). Incoming flights even when I am thru the Great Unwashed queue, its never more than 20+ mins.

Edited May 17, 2013 by bangkokburning

[Arkady]

Half the list isn't even relevant if you ate not working, so you in ten years no?

I go thru Thai only channel with the wife all the time (marriage O). Incoming flights even when I am thru the Great Unwashed queue, its never more than 20+ mins.

At Swampy they now have automatic gates for Thai passports. What was the Thai only channel is now the ASEAN channel.

[Arkady]

What on Earth For?????? unless you are from an even lower standard of 3rd World Country ....I laugh at all the people who want to be Citizens of this insanity..take it from me even if you pass all the idiotic tests YOU WILL ALWAYS BE A FOREIGNER here, the most important thing you need in Thailand is your air fare out

As shown below I say again WHY? ... I did most of this on a 1 year Non B with a 4 million baht company..the rest I dont care about after 40 years here

Benefits of Permanent Residence

• No need to leave the country within 7 days if employment is terminated.
• No need to extend or renew any visa, or report your address every 90 days.

  But you do have to obtain a re-entry visa if you go out of the country.

• Allowed to buy a condominium without having to remit funds from abroad.
• Entitled to apply for citizenship after 5 years.
• Entitled to be appointed a director of a public limited company even if the

  majority of other directors on the Board are non-Thai.

• Supposedly easier to obtain a work permit.
• Allowed to go through the "Thai passports only" channel at airport Immigration.

And you can own a gun in your own name!

Plus, if you have a wife and children here (in my case children and grandchildren) then you have the peace of mind that you don't need ever to apply for visas, always wondering whether the next visa application might run into some new difficulties, etc.

For some (me included) that's very very important, for others maybe not so important, each to their own.

Many TV members are married to Thais and have Thai kids but for those with foreign wives and kids PR carries the advantage of allowing your wife and kids to coat tail and get PR too, if you get it. Once you and your foreign wife have PR any kids born in Thailand are automatically Thai citizens by birth. Most of the people who apply for PR are Chinese or Indian Subcontinentals and they tend to have wives from their home country. This makes PR a big plus for them in addition to being their route to Thai citizenship. When they apply for that their minor children can apply at the same time and their wives can apply later under the easier terms available for wives of Thai citizens.

Now that you can apply directly for citizenship with a Thai wife, it makes sense for many to do that and skip PR. But bear in mind that anything to do with foreigners gets progressively harder. (The exemption from having PR for foreign men with Thai wives applying for citizenship wasn't out the kindness of their hearts. It was out of necessity and through gritted teeth to comply with the constitution because the law was discriminating against Thai women.) When I got PR in the late 90s, it cost Bt 52k total, documents required were minimal compared to today and results were guaranteed within 12 months. Now it can take 5 years. Citizenship used to take only from 18 months to 3 years and now it can take 5-10 years - sometimes 5 years just to get interviewed. So, if you want to apply, don't procrastinate arguing the merits and demerits. While you are doing that, they are quite likely to tighten things up across the board and make it harder to get extensions based on retirement, marriage and NON-Imm Bs as well. Surely one day they are going to decide to cull the bottom economic layer of farang retirees and make things more like they are in farang countries for people wanting to settle there. I think the UK wants GBP 500k from people wanting to settle there without working.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Arkady

[PhilipCook]

took 6 years to get mine, can't really say its worth the cost but it makes things easier. if you plan to be here a while, might as well try, don't be bothered about the Thai language requirement, my language skills are awful but I managed, can always apply after that to get the passport to own land in your own name if that is a priority.

[Postmaster]

Arkady. Automatic gates at Swampy, so what ? How many days of the year will you use those ? Hardly an argument in favour.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Advantages of citizenship.

I can buy a house in my own name using a home loan from a Thai bank.

Do you need any more advantages than that?

[MAJIC]

You will be a foreigner in here forever, no matter what documents you have, it is what you are inside and how you look to them.

Once a Farang always a Farang,and no bits of paper will ever change that.

[MAJIC]

What on Earth For?????? unless you are from an even lower standard of 3rd World Country ....I laugh at all the people who want to be Citizens of this insanity..take it from me even if you pass all the idiotic tests YOU WILL ALWAYS BE A FOREIGNER here, the most important thing you need in Thailand is your air fare out

As shown below I say again WHY? ... I did most of this on a 1 year Non B with a 4 million baht company..the rest I dont care about after 40 years here

Benefits of Permanent Residence

• No need to leave the country within 7 days if employment is terminated.
• No need to extend or renew any visa, or report your address every 90 days.

  But you do have to obtain a re-entry visa if you go out of the country.

• Allowed to buy a condominium without having to remit funds from abroad.
• Entitled to apply for citizenship after 5 years.
• Entitled to be appointed a director of a public limited company even if the

  majority of other directors on the Board are non-Thai.

• Supposedly easier to obtain a work permit.
• Allowed to go through the "Thai passports only" channel at airport Immigration.

And you can own a gun in your own name!

Plus, if you have a wife and children here (in my case children and grandchildren) then you have the peace of mind that you don't need ever to apply for visas, always wondering whether the next visa application might run into some new difficulties, etc.

For some (me included) that's very very important, for others maybe not so important, each to their own.

Many TV members are married to Thais and have Thai kids but for those with foreign wives and kids PR carries the advantage of allowing your wife and kids to coat tail and get PR too, if you get it. Once you and your foreign wife have PR any kids born in Thailand are automatically Thai citizens by birth. Most of the people who apply for PR are Chinese or Indian Subcontinentals and they tend to have wives from their home country. This makes PR a big plus for them in addition to being their route to Thai citizenship. When they apply for that their minor children can apply at the same time and their wives can apply later under the easier terms available for wives of Thai citizens.

Now that you can apply directly for citizenship with a Thai wife, it makes sense for many to do that and skip PR. But bear in mind that anything to do with foreigners gets progressively harder. (The exemption from having PR for foreign men with Thai wives applying for citizenship wasn't out the kindness of their hearts. It was out of necessity and through gritted teeth to comply with the constitution because the law was discriminating against Thai women.) When I got PR in the late 90s, it cost Bt 52k total, documents required were minimal compared to today and results were guaranteed within 12 months. Now it can take 5 years. Citizenship used to take only from 18 months to 3 years and now it can take 5-10 years - sometimes 5 years just to get interviewed. So, if you want to apply, don't procrastinate arguing the merits and demerits. While you are doing that, they are quite likely to tighten things up across the board and make it harder to get extensions based on retirement, marriage and NON-Imm Bs as well. Surely one day they are going to decide to cull the bottom economic layer of farang retirees and make things more like they are in farang countries for people wanting to settle there. I think the UK wants GBP 500k from people wanting to settle there without working.

"I think the UK wants GBP 500k from people wanting to settle there without working"

I think you are talking nonsense! Try looking up the Channel Islands!

Edited May 17, 2013 by MAJIC

[DonaldBattles]

The Thai PR does not protect you under the law. If you break most federal laws you are subject to being deported. If you have a Thai citenship then it is a lot more difficult. Neither buys you very much except you have to pay a big price to get there.

[joetys]

Arkady. Automatic gates at Swampy, so what ? How many days of the year will you use those ? Hardly an argument in favour.

Arkady is just listing all the benefits and am being objective I am sure. For me this point is important as I am in and out of the Suvarnabhumbi Airport almost every week.

[Arkady]

Arkady. Automatic gates at Swampy, so what ? How many days of the year will you use those ? Hardly an argument in favour.

I understood the poster to be saying that he had the same advantage of going through the Thai only queue as PRs because he could sneak through with his Thai wife but the Thai only queue is now an automatic gate and there is a new manned ASEAN only queue. If they want the Thais to go through the automatic gates in future, it might not be possible to sneak through in the ASEAN queue with a non-ASEAN passport without the Thai wife. Not a big deal I agree except, of course, if you are waiting in a massive queue. Also for business travellers who have to travel without their Thai wives but perhaps not so many of those on TV.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Arkady

[pacharaphet]

You will be a foreigner in here forever, no matter what documents you have, it is what you are inside and how you look to them.

Once a Farang always a Farang,and no bits of paper will ever change that.

Well, it depends on a lot of things....there are lots of things to learn about Thailand than how to get papers....like the language, which the better you learn, the less problems you have...but I am only 25, I feel like it's easier for younger farangs who aren't throwing around their money in bar cultures (for the most part) to blend into their milieu than it is for older men who wear their money on their sleeve in those places...

[bangkokburning]

OneAmerican

The op was asking about PR, not citizenship.

And honestly that is about the best anyone can come up with in regard to citizenship as well...allows me to buy a house so it's not as easy for my wife or girlfriend to steal it iut from under me. Allows me to do xyz in business that would othetwise be impossible.

I never read how proud people are or how this now allows them to vote and affect change in their new homeland. Never read how proud they are of the history, culture and constitution. Or how educated and polite the governing flunkies are, so lovely to deal with. Education system for the kids? How doing business is easy and a pleasure...

Wonder how many renounce their nations of birth?

Its at worst a business decision and at best a lifestyle choice.

Who cares about the stupid gates? Just totally proves my point. Besides...some of you guys never leave the country and I am inclined to think those in the PR / citizenship clique would be a large part of that group.

[Arkady]

What on Earth For?????? unless you are from an even lower standard of 3rd World Country ....I laugh at all the people who want to be Citizens of this insanity..take it from me even if you pass all the idiotic tests YOU WILL ALWAYS BE A FOREIGNER here, the most important thing you need in Thailand is your air fare out

As shown below I say again WHY? ... I did most of this on a 1 year Non B with a 4 million baht company..the rest I dont care about after 40 years here

Benefits of Permanent Residence

• No need to leave the country within 7 days if employment is terminated.
• No need to extend or renew any visa, or report your address every 90 days.

  But you do have to obtain a re-entry visa if you go out of the country.

• Allowed to buy a condominium without having to remit funds from abroad.
• Entitled to apply for citizenship after 5 years.
• Entitled to be appointed a director of a public limited company even if the

  majority of other directors on the Board are non-Thai.

• Supposedly easier to obtain a work permit.
• Allowed to go through the "Thai passports only" channel at airport Immigration.

And you can own a gun in your own name!

Plus, if you have a wife and children here (in my case children and grandchildren) then you have the peace of mind that you don't need ever to apply for visas, always wondering whether the next visa application might run into some new difficulties, etc.

For some (me included) that's very very important, for others maybe not so important, each to their own.

Many TV members are married to Thais and have Thai kids but for those with foreign wives and kids PR carries the advantage of allowing your wife and kids to coat tail and get PR too, if you get it. Once you and your foreign wife have PR any kids born in Thailand are automatically Thai citizens by birth. Most of the people who apply for PR are Chinese or Indian Subcontinentals and they tend to have wives from their home country. This makes PR a big plus for them in addition to being their route to Thai citizenship. When they apply for that their minor children can apply at the same time and their wives can apply later under the easier terms available for wives of Thai citizens.

Now that you can apply directly for citizenship with a Thai wife, it makes sense for many to do that and skip PR. But bear in mind that anything to do with foreigners gets progressively harder. (The exemption from having PR for foreign men with Thai wives applying for citizenship wasn't out the kindness of their hearts. It was out of necessity and through gritted teeth to comply with the constitution because the law was discriminating against Thai women.) When I got PR in the late 90s, it cost Bt 52k total, documents required were minimal compared to today and results were guaranteed within 12 months. Now it can take 5 years. Citizenship used to take only from 18 months to 3 years and now it can take 5-10 years - sometimes 5 years just to get interviewed. So, if you want to apply, don't procrastinate arguing the merits and demerits. While you are doing that, they are quite likely to tighten things up across the board and make it harder to get extensions based on retirement, marriage and NON-Imm Bs as well. Surely one day they are going to decide to cull the bottom economic layer of farang retirees and make things more like they are in farang countries for people wanting to settle there. I think the UK wants GBP 500k from people wanting to settle there without working.

"I think the UK wants GBP 500k from people wanting to settle there without working"

I think you are talking nonsense! Try looking up the Channel Islands!

Sorry, I was wrong. Under the relatively new UK points system It is now GBP 1 million that is needed for a Tier 1 investor to settle in the UK. http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/working/tier1/investor/ . Perhaps there are other ways for people from outside the EU who have no partner with right of abode in the U K and aren't Commonwealth citizens with a British grandparent to come and settle in the UK without a job or the skills to qualify for a work permit but I am unaware of them. There is certainly no equivalent for, say, a 65 retired old Thai, without family in the UK to come and get annually renewable retirement visas by showing the equivalent of only THB 800k or an annual pension of the same amount which is close to the poverty line in the UK. Even if they could marry Essex girls as easily as farangs can marry Thai village girls, that wouldn't get them visa extensions through marriage and probably not even a tourist visa.

Think of it from the Thai perspective and their aspirations to become a high income country and replace low end subsistence tourism with higher margin arrivals and it is obvious that things are going to change at some point in the future. Immigration increased the price of PR from THB 52,000 to nearly 200,000 and still plenty of people apply. If they increased the cost of retirement visas substantially and raised the financial requirement to THB 2 or 3 million, I bet they would still have plenty of people applying. They now have 23 million tourist arrivals. When they first came up with the idea of a retirement visa to boost the numbers in the late 80s, they had less than 5 million. Once you have PR in Thailand no one ever asks anything about your job or financial means.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Arkady

[HerbalEd]

Unless you are young, there is little advantage of taking Thai citizenship. Retirement visa is 1,900THB, citizenship minimum of 100K.

Are you going to live for another 50 years ???

Citizenship is much cheaper and has many obvoius advantages. Don't confuse it with PR.

Don't tease us. What are the advantages?