Phuket German Expat Loses Bt600K To Skimmers

[Jimi007]

He'll survive.

It's the Thais that save tooth and nail for years to make this kind of money and then to have it skimmed I feel sorry for.

I don't really think that is the point. Do you? His bank card was skimmed. No one from the bank notified him. It should be the banks responsibility as it is in many countries, to monitor suspicious transactions. It has nothing to do with what poorer Thais earn, is it? Rich Thais can way more than most westerners as well as Thais...

[Jimi007]

This kind of devastating scam leaves a very bad impression of the country as a whole. Perhaps it can happen anywhere, but variations on this theme of thievery seem to happen here all too often. The bank's reaction to the customer's loss reveals a very poor service attitude, to say the least.

"Too bad Joe, you gotta be more careful. prob'ly one of your girlfriends, huh?"

I agree with you. But when these skimmers are caught they are always foreign nationals...

[mic59]

Another proof that bank cards are not save in Thailand. NEVER use a bank or credit card in Thailand, bring along Traveller's Cheques instead, more save and easy to change. Higher rate than cash and only 33 Baht handling fee per cheque.

Exactly. Every time I go to Thailand banks and other travellers tell me travellers cheques are a dinosaur. I reply they are the only way I know what I have spent and if I change one and the cash is stolen it is not the end of the world. No way will I trust a cash passport or visa account in Thailand or anything that needs the use of an ATM. Edited May 17, 2013 by mic59

[bendywire]

He'll survive.

It's the Thais that save tooth and nail for years to make this kind of money and then to have it skimmed I feel sorry for.

So just because he is a foreigner you have no or little sympathy but if it was a Thai you would have some sympathy?. His money is in a bank and SHOULD be safe from the scum who stole it from him regardless of where he came from in the world. You sir have won the award for Plank of The Day.

[fvw53]

My (Thai) wife asked questions to our bank manager of Siam Commercial Bank (Tiwanond Road branch) and he said that in such cases his bank would always reimburse the stolen money rather than loosing its reputation.

I hope it is true.

We are notified by SMS of transactions.

[Jimi007]

He'll survive.

It's the Thais that save tooth and nail for years to make this kind of money and then to have it skimmed I feel sorry for.

So just because he is a foreigner you have no or little sympathy but if it was a Thai you would have some sympathy?. His money is in a bank and SHOULD be safe from the scum who stole it from him regardless of where he came from in the world. You sir have won the award for Plank of The Day.

LOL! Agree. But there are not the same banking protections as there are where you grew up. So you must learn to protect yourself... It's easy enough to do as several of us have mentioned on this thread.

[fxe1200]

Kasikorn bank - what a rippo bank is that!

Always cheating on cross-rates and exchaneg rates. I wouldn't wonder they have stolen that money by themselfs.

And no wonder they turned their back on a client after all. This is Kasikorn.

BTW, don't they have some sort of bank account insurance in this country??..

They also cheat their customers on incoming international transfers, that has happened to me. It took me three months, zillions of emails, calls, and visits, until I received the overpaid fees back.

Now I am with Bangkok Bank, and when they offered me an ATM card, I answered them: " If everybody would have an ATM card, the you would be out of your work very soon. By not using an ATM card I help to secure your job."

And it is much safer too.

[happysanook]

Third world example!

Unfortunately many people who choose to stay in Thailand seem to want the benefits of life in the Third World ... generally cheaper cost of living, less expensive medical services, less officious government types meddling in your personal life, no enforced medical insurance payments (so far) etc., but act flabbergasted and gobsmacked when some of the more costly services like total protection in banking & credit service or fully trained and equipped EMS services aren't instantly available.

I have to agree with this. At the end of the day, look where you are. You can't expect the simple, relaxed way of life along with inexpensive cost of living and lack of nanny laws and have the benefits of things like fraud protection. Thailand is, for all intents and purposes, still a 'wild west' when it comes to criime, criminals and the law.

Check the keypad to make sure there are no overlays and cover your hand very well, only use ATMs at banks, and you can't be skimmed.

Edited May 17, 2013 by happysanook

[Jimi007]

Kasikorn bank - what a rippo bank is that!

Always cheating on cross-rates and exchaneg rates. I wouldn't wonder they have stolen that money by themselfs.

And no wonder they turned their back on a client after all. This is Kasikorn.

BTW, don't they have some sort of bank account insurance in this country??..

They also cheat their customers on incoming international transfers, that has happened to me. It took me three months, zillions of emails, calls, and visits, until I received the overpaid fees back.

Now I am with Bangkok Bank, and when they offered me an ATM card, I answered them: " If everybody would have an ATM card, the you would be out of your work very soon. By not using an ATM card I help to secure your job."

And it is much safer too.

Rather inconvenient IMO! Having two account with Bangkok Bank and using internet banking to transfer to my account that has nothing in it, other than what I want to get at any point is much more convenient! Plus I only carry that one ATM card with me. My wife jokes that if someone ever wanted to rob me, they'd get nothing! They don't want your 16 year old motorbike and you carry a few hundred Baht!

Edited May 17, 2013 by Jimi007

[tragickingdom]

In a non banana republic the bank would take the hit. It is unlikely that this gentleman has made withdrawals in shops or other places but most likely only in ATM's, Banks and shops should be held responsible for their equipment.

[candypants]

I suggest he reads this story and sees if his situation is similar:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/528145-phuket-atm-scams-even-professionals-get-caught-out/

PS. For 10 baht a month, I get an SMS message when any money is removed or added to my account.

For another 10 baht, I get an SMS message when ever my Internet banking account is logged in.

It does sound useful, but I'm genuinely wondering how much good it would do? I guess you can immediately cancel the card from further withdrawals to avoid the whole account being emptied - but what about that first withdrawal?

Is there anything SCB would do about that?

I found SCB totally useless when I had my card stolen and used fraudulently to take 20k out of my account - thankfully that's all that was in there - 2 years ago. Had a police report to prove my wallet was stolen before the transactions were made but SCB refused to cancel my card when I went into the branch the moment it opened as I couldn't give them my account number (I was on Samui and didn't take my Bangkok branch bank book on holiday) and they "couldn't find me" on the system!!

The thief even made 2 transactions at stores on Koh Samui and Koh Phangnan within 5 minutes of each other - SCB couldn't tell me how the thief managed that either. Never got any money back. UK credit cards were also stolen and used in the same way, money was instantly refunded after a phone call. The fraud department were supposed to 'work together' with Samui police....obviously that was futile.

So, just wondering if notifying them as soon as you get the SMS would help? Honest question, no hint of sarcasm (I know what people are like on here!)

My ATM card is purely an ATM card. It is not a credit or a debit card for the exact reasons you illustrate.

and if skimmed that would not make a bit of difference

[Songhua]

I recently had funds skimmed from my Commonwealth Bank ATM account in a bank in Hua Hin. The following day the bank contacted me and asked if I had any transactions in the Philippines, I responded no. They immediately cancelled the card, 2 days later the skimmed funds were back into my account. A new card arrived from Oz via FedEx and the following day the PIN arrived also by FedEx. Definately a different experience from the above OP.

Likewise. A couple of years ago I used my Commonwealth Bank Visa card at ATMs all over Thailand for the few weeks I was there. The card at no stage left my sight. About three weeks after returning to Australia I had a call from the bank asking whether I was in Victoria buying computers. My reply was no, I was currently in Queensland.

$7000 had ben run up on the card in a single day and it was suspected that the card had been skimmed during the trip to Thailand, cloned and sold to someone in Australia. I signed a simple form at the bank and verified my whereabouts on the day in question ... my card was replaced immediately and the loss was covered.

[fxe1200]

Kasikorn bank - what a rippo bank is that!

Always cheating on cross-rates and exchaneg rates. I wouldn't wonder they have stolen that money by themselfs.

And no wonder they turned their back on a client after all. This is Kasikorn.

BTW, don't they have some sort of bank account insurance in this country??..

They also cheat their customers on incoming international transfers, that has happened to me. It took me three months, zillions of emails, calls, and visits, until I received the overpaid fees back.

Now I am with Bangkok Bank, and when they offered me an ATM card, I answered them: " If everybody would have an ATM card, the you would be out of your work very soon. By not using an ATM card I help to secure your job."

And it is much safer too.

Rather inconvenient IMO! Having two account with Bangkok Bank and using internet banking to transfer to my account that has nothing in it, other than what I want to get at any point is much more convenient! Plus I only carry that one ATM card with me. My wife jokes that if someone ever wanted to rob me, they'd get nothing! They don't want your 16 year old motorbike and you carry a few hundred Baht!

I am lucky, as the BKKBK branch is just around the corner, besides I do it just like you do, but I do not carry a card. If necessary during traveling I still can take my credit card.

[apalink_thailand]

Just a thought. Try using ATM outside the branches. Not always convenient I know but surely more secure.

[JetsetBkk]

I suggest he reads this story and sees if his situation is similar:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/528145-phuket-atm-scams-even-professionals-get-caught-out/

PS. For 10 baht a month, I get an SMS message when any money is removed or added to my account.

For another 10 baht, I get an SMS message when ever my Internet banking account is logged in.

It does sound useful, but I'm genuinely wondering how much good it would do? I guess you can immediately cancel the card from further withdrawals to avoid the whole account being emptied - but what about that first withdrawal?

Is there anything SCB would do about that?

I found SCB totally useless when I had my card stolen and used fraudulently to take 20k out of my account - thankfully that's all that was in there - 2 years ago. Had a police report to prove my wallet was stolen before the transactions were made but SCB refused to cancel my card when I went into the branch the moment it opened as I couldn't give them my account number (I was on Samui and didn't take my Bangkok branch bank book on holiday) and they "couldn't find me" on the system!!

The thief even made 2 transactions at stores on Koh Samui and Koh Phangnan within 5 minutes of each other - SCB couldn't tell me how the thief managed that either. Never got any money back. UK credit cards were also stolen and used in the same way, money was instantly refunded after a phone call. The fraud department were supposed to 'work together' with Samui police....obviously that was futile.

So, just wondering if notifying them as soon as you get the SMS would help? Honest question, no hint of sarcasm (I know what people are like on here!)

My ATM card is purely an ATM card. It is not a credit or a debit card for the exact reasons you illustrate.

and if skimmed that would not make a bit of difference

Clearly you don't know the difference between an ATM card and a credit or debit card. The difference is enormous.

[BradinAsia]

My (Thai) wife asked questions to our bank manager of Siam Commercial Bank (Tiwanond Road branch) and he said that in such cases his bank would always reimburse the stolen money rather than loosing its reputation.

I hope it is true.

We are notified by SMS of transactions.

Wonderful sounding words, but I had 70,000 baht skimmed from my SCB account and

they were quire indifferent. Told me someone probably used my card.

Several years later, and I've never gotten 1 baht of it back.

[BradinAsia]

@candypants...

"Clearly you don't know the difference between an ATM card and a credit or debit card. The difference is enormous."

With a debit card you go to an ATM and withdraw your money from your account.

With an ATM card you go to an ATM and withdraw your money from your account.

Maybe you could please enlighten the rest of us on the difference.

[Jimi007]

Just a thought. Try using ATM outside the branches. Not always convenient I know but surely more secure.

Yes, but this seems to happen at mostly Kosikorn Bank ATMs or ATMs just outside Currency Exchange booths. Many in Kata, Phuket. So there seems to be a problem with their ATMs and software over all other banks here in Thailand. AS I said before, mostly foreign nationals have been caught over the past two years doing the skimming.

[happysanook]

@candypants...

"Clearly you don't know the difference between an ATM card and a credit or debit card. The difference is enormous."

With a debit card you go to an ATM and withdraw your money from your account.

With an ATM card you go to an ATM and withdraw your money from your account.

Maybe you could please enlighten the rest of us on the difference.

A debit card can be used most anywhere credit cards are accepted. It means the cloned card could be used to go and purchase a notebook, or a 72" Plasma TV (or both ) as well as stealing directly from the account at an ATM.

An ATM card is for removing cash from the ATM only. Now you're enlightened.

[makkam]

The bank’s call centre told The Phuket News that skimming cases, and compensation, are handled on a “case by case” basis.

In other words if you're 'farang' that's the last you'll see of your money and besides we thai's know you farangs have too much money and deserve to be ripped off by we virtuous thai people

[spacemand]

If I were him I would see if I could file a complaint with Visa Thailand, Visa wants their customers to be happy and there are some tight rules when it comes to losses by fraud to protect the card holder.

Just see how easy it is to make a charge back on a transaction you do online, file a charge back on a membership or service you bought online and its almost impossible for the merchant to challange it.

[Jimi007]

@candypants...

"Clearly you don't know the difference between an ATM card and a credit or debit card. The difference is enormous."

With a debit card you go to an ATM and withdraw your money from your account.

With an ATM card you go to an ATM and withdraw your money from your account.

Maybe you could please enlighten the rest of us on the difference.

A debit card can be used most anywhere credit cards are accepted. It means the cloned card could be used to go and purchase a notebook, or a 72" Plasma TV (or both ) as well as stealing directly from the account at an ATM.

An ATM card is for removing cash from the ATM only. Now you're enlightened.

Yes, but it can be only used at an ATM from your bank and not internationally at least from banks here in Thailand... For instance, my wife got the new ATM card from Bangkok Bank which has a "smart chip" embedded in it. It will only work with Bangkok Bank ATMs. The debit/ATM card I got issued from the same branch can pull up my account from any ATM that has a VISA logo in the world. Which would you rather have?

Edited May 17, 2013 by Jimi007

[happysanook]

Just see how easy it is to make a charge back on a transaction you do online, file a charge back on a membership or service you bought online and its almost impossible for the merchant to challange it.

Is that something you do often? Buy something and then file a charge back?

[happysanook]

@candypants...

"Clearly you don't know the difference between an ATM card and a credit or debit card. The difference is enormous."

With a debit card you go to an ATM and withdraw your money from your account.

With an ATM card you go to an ATM and withdraw your money from your account.

Maybe you could please enlighten the rest of us on the difference.

A debit card can be used most anywhere credit cards are accepted. It means the cloned card could be used to go and purchase a notebook, or a 72" Plasma TV (or both ) as well as stealing directly from the account at an ATM.

An ATM card is for removing cash from the ATM only. Now you're enlightened.

Yes, but it can be only used at an ATM from your bank and not internationally at least here in Thailand...

Another important difference. Good point.

[OldChinaHam]

"With a debit card you go to an ATM and withdraw your money from your account.

With an ATM card you go to an ATM and withdraw your money from your account.

Maybe you could please enlighten the rest of us on the difference."

Yes Brad, I could.

Edited May 17, 2013 by OldChinaHam

[Jimi007]

Board edit is really not working well. Carry on..

Edited May 17, 2013 by Jimi007

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Add another episode to the Thai banks' greatest fraud hits collection...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/626332-atm-fraud-lawyers/?p=6210271

And the list keeps getting longer and longer and longer...

Sadly, the OP in this case pretty much made all the mistakes that too many farang in Thailand make in relying on Thai banks, which you pretty much should NEVER do when it comes to protecting the safety and security of any important amount of your funds.

[tezzainoz]

Here's a #protip for you all. Always set-up 2 bank accounts. 1 account, with the majority of your funds with an ATM card you never take outside. The other with only funds you need for a particular day connected to the ATM card you carry on you. If you ever need more funds, just simply transfer via your bank Smartphone app (or online banking) from the main account to the "outside" secondary account, and then use the secondary account ATM to withdraw immediately.

A) If your "outside" ATM card gets skimmed, you'll never lose much.

If you ever get held up or robbed outside, they'll never get much from forcing you to withdraw off that card you have on you.

Agreed I do the same, one card for ATM's and internet payment

the other that never leaves the safe the hold the major money

when I know how much I need to make a payment or use I transfer to what I call my cash card

Many of my friend have had their cards copied, and did not listen to basic advice

[tropo]

If you ever get held up or robbed outside, they'll never get much from forcing you to withdraw off that card you have on you.

That could work against you too. If they've gone that far they may get really nasty if you can't get any money out - and think you're holding back on them.

[soi41]

Been reading to whole sad thread. So many experts and Thailand-haters in such a small space. No one is really giving the OP any usefull advice, in their eager to share their own sad stories.<br />What do you expect the banks to do? Whenever someone on a holiday runs out of money: "Someone must have skimmed my card, 150k missing" The bank:"Sorry to hear that Sir, please sign here and you will be paid back at counter 5"<br />Ofcourse they have to handle it on a case to case basis, if not they would be scammed out of big money of dishonest farangs (yes they do exist!)<br />Personally I have been banking with Kasikorn for more than 10 years, never had anything but very good service and no problems whatsoever!!