How Can Cm Establish A Bicycle Path Network Throughout The City?

[hellodolly]

Terrific idea. The pavements here are in a state of disrepair. A new cycle path would make for a much better place to park motorcycles, erect telegraph poles, set up food businesses, place advertising hoardings and act as a traffic contraflow.

Sorry its difficult to take this idea seriously as it requires enforcement . . . not Thailand's strong suit. With enough political will, it could get built, but it could never be useable.

The only problem I see with that plan is that in order to make the end product worth while you would have to remove all the buildings on one side of the road.

[hellodolly]

Park & Rides sound nice, but when you think about it there is really nothing stopping me from parking anywhere nearish to the superhighway ring road and grabbing a Songthaew (red or otherwise) into town. Ok they're not electric, but it's the same sort of burden on me. Parking is not hard to find anywhere (and especially not way out) so there really is nothing stopping me from starting to 'park & ride' tomorrow. But.. "meh".. because traffic downtown really isn't anywhere near bad enough to contemplate this, and parking almost anywhere downtown is super easy too.

Also, park & ride schemes cost more money (electric buses, and buying up land for parking), whereas bicycle lanes are relatively cheap and don't require much in the way of labor or maintenance once established.

Good luck getting a Songthaw on superhighway or ring roads.

[theDukes]

You have to either have a death wish or, well, to put it mildly, you have to be crazy to ride a bike in Chiang Mai. The danger and the exhaust fumes negate any of the redeeming health benefits. You might as well just skip the cycling and eat a large Duke's burger with bacon, extra cheese and extra fries.

That being the fact of life in a country where those in power love the vote so much that they give the masses credit to buy motorbikes and then increase their wages so that they can buy newer motorbikes. Then they trade up to a truck that billows black smoke.

Ride your bikes outside of town on the rings roads and be scraped off of the side of the road. Where did the driver of the car go? Did anyone see anything? No.

I visited Yangon last week. The generals decided one day to get rid of motorbikes in the city. I'd vote for that. In the minority I would guess. Chiang Mai w/o motorbikes? Where are the generals in Chiang Mai when you need them? The answer? Giving "credit" to the masses so they can buy new motorbikes.

Want to ride a bike? Move out of town. Way out. Then buy some insurance and put my name down as the beneficiary and fear for your life.

Edited May 19, 2013 by theDukes

[OldChinaHam]

Excuse me, but when you say motorbikes are many in CM, do you mean many as in:

Edited May 19, 2013 by OldChinaHam

[OldChinaHam]

Taipei?

Compared to doing so in Taipei, designing and building a bike path network in CM should be relatively easy, one would think. But it is true that I do not know as much as I should.

[OldChinaHam]

It is not that I know nothing about motorbikes, Duke. I do know about them and their impact on a city. But you must keep in mind that without them, these motorbikes would turn into more and cheaper cars on your roads, which might be worse.

I do also know about the impact of these vehicles at a more personal level. 25 years ago, I was hit by one of them that was speeding in the wrong direction carrying two passengers. I was hit while I was crossing the street at night not expecting the riders to be heading the wrong way. I was left lying half on the curbing with a fractured knee and a few cuts and gouges. The driver was poor and young, and the only compensation offered me while I lay in my hospital bed was a plastic bag full of pork dumplings, which were quite good as I recall. I do not like motorbikes very much and never ride them.

Most of the reasons I see cited above to discourage the implementation of a bike path network are non-issues that can be designed around. Sometimes education to change behavior is not easy but since people are gradually changing anyway, usually in a positive direction, why not try to speed things up?

My question still stands, asking how can a bike path be built in CM, one that works and one that improves the situation as we now find it.

Also, some of you may be confused thinking that I think the only reason for a bike path might be transportation. Transportation is very important, but so also is leisure and exercise with family and friends. One of the major uses of all the bike paths in Taipei is to improve people's health and to get outdoors for some exercise. Used for these purposes, the bike paths still benefit people even though they are only used by some on the weekends, as an alternative to sitting at home worrying about housing bubbles.

[OldChinaHam]

Maybe some of you who write "WELCOME TO CHIANG MAI, NOW GO HOME".

Really do hope that people will not move to CM if the city does not improve?

I do not like overpopulation, and especially dislike overpopulation of people.

But the bike path, we should have.

[sustento]

Is a bicycle path network something that the indigenous population of Chiang Mai is crying out for? If so I dare say they'll sort it out to suit themselves. If it's yet another attempt by immigrants to mould CM to resemble their old home town then...

[OldChinaHam]

Do you mean, Sustento, that just because we needed to pay money and other incentives to indigenous populations to encourage them to be vaccinated for smallpox that this was an encroachment on their cultural purity? Education for health is always a good idea because it benefits everyone, not just the locals. I am really not so sure that the locals welcomed of their own accord the Big Mac type food franchises, there was much advertising done to get people to gulp that glop. A similar education campaign can be mounted in CM for biking.

Oh no. Was that another fun pun?

I also have seen the ways people in Taipei who never really wanted to ride a bike would gradually participate and enjoy themselves. You ought to take a poll to measure CM people's attitudes toward bike riding. This is part of the planning stage before you build. Good point.

[bristolgeoff]

put a motor on it and it will work,bicycles are at the bottom of the rung sorry, to the cars and motor bikes.

[OldChinaHam]

"put a motor on it and it will work,"

Then you and I are in agreement?

Put a low power electric motor on bikes and put these on a bike path network to lower fumes and save on fuel, cut down on noise pollution and reclaim our city for pedestrians as well?

Thank you, krap.

Edited May 20, 2013 by OldChinaHam

[junglechef]

Firstly here's a pic. of the bike path in Tapei, do the sidewalks next to it look like that here, with people actually having free access to get to and use? A cycle path would sure come in handy for pedestrians.

Next playing the race card is taking your own topic from an interesting discussion to something that is not necessary.

From your own experiences that you have shared you for yourself know that there are steps and a cycle path is not (see I can pun too) the first to make it all work.

The Duke is funny and makes sense but forgets that mt. biking is safe from (most) cars. Though it is an "adventure sport" I take my young boys on the dirt paths in the outskirts of town that would suit the riding ability and fitness of all riders. I know it's not as convient for many, esp. as one needs transport to get there with the bikes but I want to encourage all to use the wonderful opportunity we have here that can been enjoyed now! A couple of families could rent a song tell and make an adventure out of it. Everything doesn't need to be gift wrapped and labeled how to use.

Edited May 20, 2013 by junglechef

[OldChinaHam]

Thank you, Junglechef. If I am not completely mistaken, the photo that you show looks like it is taken by a park which is a reclaimed area which was once filled with old one room houses and has now been turned into quite a lovely area in the middle of town. There are not many of these areas in Taipei and the ones that do exist are small. CM is very fortunate to have a good climate and relatively clean air, at least it is very good compared to what you will find in some other countries in the region.

If you are able to get out to do mountain biking or biking outside the city, this is very good. But it is the convenience of being able to hop on a bike and go within 5 minutes of where one lives that can make this much more accessible and usable to people who live in Chiang Mai.

Having to pack up the car to drive bikes to ride is not what most people would prefer to do.

[OldChinaHam]

And really, what I was wondering when I posted this topic was how CM CAN have a bike path network

Not why it will never happen and can never happen. Pointing out the problems in accomplishing this goal is useful but I did not expect that people would be quite so willing to give up before the idea had really been fully considered.

If people really do not want to see people riding bikes in Chiang Mai, then we should find out if their views accurately represent the views of the majority of people who live in Chiang Mai.

[OldChinaHam]

(And by the way. I do not wish to open a can of worms in the middle of my most important topic yet. But a few of you have been pressing my like button, and then un-liking 2 minutes later. But this does not matter if you will just like the bike idea, and support the bike idea. For your health. And because you know it is the right thing to do.)

Edited May 20, 2013 by OldChinaHam

[Ulysses G.]

Torture.

But a few of you have been pressing my like button, and then un-liking 2 minutes later.

[tropico]

If I do not mistake there are bicycle paths along the moat but I think they are used as parking space for cars!

That tells you everything!!!!

How many people do you see cycling around? Maybe they would be more if they had proper facilities but I doubt it!

Like somebody mentioned, many people would ride their motorbikes to go just 100 meters away.

I would love to have bicycle paths because I am a cyclist myself but I feel it is perceived not as a priority here and it would be certainly misused!

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

CM needs to start with something basic like building decent sidewalks. They are still playing catchup with many Ancient Roman achievements.

After that the key issue is how would a bicycle network put a new Mercedes into the driveway of govt cronies and will it provide future revenue flows.

Will this bicycle network rain smoking hot Mia Noi's on the govt fixers?

Impossible NO. Improbable YES

[OldChinaHam]

Yes, Tropico, but my question is how do cars drive onto a properly designed and constructed bike path? There are barriers and gates which should be designed to separate the bikes from the cars and motorcycles and motobai to keep out the ones you don't want.

The same case you mention is true in other countries - people with motorbikes available will ride them to go 50 meters or less. If they needed to use the foot pedal to start them rather than using the electric starter motor, then they might think twice. Man is naturally a slothful animal it sometimes seems, or at least is often unthinking. But again, the project can be made successful if there is the motivation and the exchange of like views.

[OldChinaHam]

Many of the highways in China and the rapid transit in Taipei is privately funded. It is far better than anything the government offers and is a pleasure to use. I do not suppose a private network might be possible? No. But as you say, CSN, then one just needs to come up with the right incentives. Some people say that too much gift giving is wrong and that gift giving is a bad thing. But I think not. I love to get gifts. And I think everyone loves to get gifts. And I think people who are able to make my bike idea work probably also enjoy giving and receiving gifts. This is exactly how it has always been, everywhere. So why stop now?

Edited May 20, 2013 by OldChinaHam

[hellodolly]

And really, what I was wondering when I posted this topic was how CM CAN have a bike path network

Not why it will never happen and can never happen. Pointing out the problems in accomplishing this goal is useful but I did not expect that people would be quite so willing to give up before the idea had really been fully considered.

If people really do not want to see people riding bikes in Chiang Mai, then we should find out if their views accurately represent the views of the majority of people who live in Chiang Mai.

I have all ready answered your question. There are several points you are overlooking.

1 You are on a forum mainly for expats unfortunate for you they are capable of reason.

2 You are over looking the fact that the existing infrastructure does not exist for it in Chiang Mai

3 A bike path is really no good if it is part of the existing street.

4 Where do you propose to put parking?

Just a suggestion get out in the city and look around and come up with a route that can have an usable bicycle path.

I do not mean one where you have to travel miles to get to,

One that fits into Chiang Mai's present lifestyle. Also the style of driving here using the lane markers as a separation between lanes is a good idea.

Here they are used to center the vehicle on.

In short you have a great idea but pie in the sky always looks good.

[beb]

As has been mentioned already, CM has bike paths all around the city. The markings are wearing out but they are there. The only problem is that there is no enforcement. They are blocked on a regular basis and cars casually drive in them at their convenience. I think they only way to make them more effective would be to give them a very clear paint job and massively crack down on the problems already mentioned with significant fines. It's not like the cops don't like to collect fines or anything.

I don't expect this for a lot of reasons but the main one is that much more developed cities like Seoul, Korea and NYC do nothing to enforce bike paths either.

BTW, what's with all the hate for bike riders? I know some of us can be jerks but the same can be said for some drivers of motorcycle and cars etc. Especially motorcycles! What a bunch of jackasses!

Edited May 20, 2013 by beb

[Cyclist]

Is a bicycle path network something that the indigenous population of Chiang Mai is crying out for? If so I dare say they'll sort it out to suit themselves. If it's yet another attempt by immigrants to mould CM to resemble their old home town then...

Probably, it's the locals in BKK that are pushing for bike lane there. Contrary to what a lot of TV posters are saying there are a lot of Thais cycling and there are a number of good quality bike shops in CM. but yes, I think it would have to be pushed by the locals. Edited May 20, 2013 by Cyclist

[hml367]

Many of the highways in China and the rapid transit in Taipei is privately funded. It is far better than anything the government offers and is a pleasure to use. I do not suppose a private network might be possible? No. But as you say, CSN, then one just needs to come up with the right incentives. Some people say that too much gift giving is wrong and that gift giving is a bad thing. But I think not. I love to get gifts. And I think everyone loves to get gifts. And I think people who are able to make my bike idea work probably also enjoy giving and receiving gifts. This is exactly how it has always been, everywhere. So why stop now?

Why do you think this is your idea? Do you think you are the first one to come up with this idea?

Someone mentioned an elevated bike path. Just so happens in the May,2013, National Geographic magazine there is a short article on Eindhoven, Netherlands with an elevated "360 degree bike circuit" to help with traffic congestion.

Edited May 20, 2013 by hml367

[beb]

Contrary to what a lot of TV posters are saying there are a lot of Thais cycling and there are a number of good quality bike shops in CM. but yes, I think it would have to be pushed by the locals.

Ditto on that. There are a significant number of Thai bicycle enthusiasts in CM, many of them very dedicated and riding bikes that are worth more that most people's motorcycles. If you want a taste of it, come out to Tae Pae Gate any sunday morning to see the bike club head out. It's quite a crowd.

[OldChinaHam]

"In short you have a great idea but pie in the sky always looks good."

Sometimes, HD, I think it is fortunate that I never aspired to become a politician.

Regarding what you say about identifying good bike paths, I have not yet tried it in a serious way, but it might be instructive to use the Google maps bike path function and see how it is done in Taipei, in order to see how it might be done here. You can actually follow the camera as it travels down the many bike paths in that city. Quite beautiful and a pleasant diversion for the couch potato like me, actually.

If they had bike paths in Chiang Mai, I would use them for walking before I could ride. But I think I might find myself wishing to buy a bike for myself, too.

Edited May 20, 2013 by OldChinaHam

[OldChinaHam]

Beb, "BTW, what's with all the hate for bike riders?"

You will find none from me, however I think that much of it originates from just being isolated in one's car, and forgetting that there is another human outside on a bike. Maybe drivers only see a bike when they should see a human on a bike. We know there is depersonalization in warfare and in POW camps. Why not on the road? Humans become strange when they get behind the wheels of their huge cars, and in their luxury bubbles barrel along their merry way to meet their destiny.

[OldChinaHam]

"Why do you think this is your idea? Do you think you are the first one to come up with this idea?"

Sorry. Did I say it was "my" idea? I must have been dreaming again.

Or engaging in a bit too much hyperbole.

[tropico]

Yes, Tropico, but my question is how do cars drive onto a properly designed and constructed bike path? There are barriers and gates which should be designed to separate the bikes from the cars and motorcycles and motobai to keep out the ones you don't want.

The same case you mention is true in other countries - people with motorbikes available will ride them to go 50 meters or less. If they needed to use the foot pedal to start them rather than using the electric starter motor, then they might think twice. Man is naturally a slothful animal it sometimes seems, or at least is often unthinking. But again, the project can be made successful if there is the motivation and the exchange of like views.

I am with you on this and I would be more than happy to have proper facilities but I feel it is almost an utopia in CM. Many of the roads are too small to have space for a bike lane. But they could definitely do it where there is enough space. Or they could develop a series of parks around CM and connect them via park connectors like in Singapore. (I understand this is not Singapore but can learn from it)

CM and its population is growing, traffic congestion is going to be worse and to be honest if more people would use bicycles it would be good, and if they would stay on their paths, car and motorbike drivers won't feel so annoyed and vice versa!

I ride my bike as transportation vehicle and for sport. I love cycling and I would love to see many more people on bicycles and less cars. Roads were not made only for cars and motorbikes but many people think so! Everybody driving or riding on roads should just exercise a bit more responsibility, follow the rules, and be more kind, something that I do not see here and many other places.

[OldChinaHam]

Cyclist. Thank You. "Probably, it's the locals in BKK that are pushing for bike lane there. Contrary to what a lot of TV posters are saying there are a lot of Thais cycling and there are a number of good quality bike shops in CM. but yes, I think it would have to be pushed by the locals."

You are exactly correct. I myself have been surprised by the bike movement which started elsewhere but has clearly moved in a big way to Asia. The Chinese threw away their bikes years ago after getting more than their fill. But now even they are beginning to ride again, or the well off are doing this, buying very expensive machines.

Many Chinese tourists are going to Taiwan and taking their gear, or renting it in Taiwan to cycle around the whole island. I have enjoyed talking to many as they participate in the cycle rallies their and dress up in all sorts of weird colors. Always a fine group of people you will find. (If this is a DUP post, sorry.)