Pig Farmers In Thailand Up In Arms Over U S Pressure

[kblaze]

What a terrible article. They reference one completely biased source and thats the basis for the whole article. Of course he is going to say insane things like "Americans are dying in droves from the chemicals" when he is the head of the Thai Swine Raisers Association.

The Nation didn't think to ask the other side on this issue, namely the US embassy, or at least other farmers...really?

[Suffinator]

I smell a Pig Pledging Scheme in the making. It'll go nice with the rice

[commande]

Its the same thing that been going on forever in Thailand....

Thai's are not interested in competition, they don't want to import anything that competes with them unless they control it and get paid to import it. Just look at the high taxes to import anything into this country. Now take a look at the Export taxes in Thailand, there are almost ZERO compared to the 20%-125%+ Import taxes applied to just about everything. There is no fair trade among most countries with Thailand and they don't want it anyway.

The Thai don't understand how to compete, you can't compete in a corrupt society because the corrupt control everything to include money and politics (taxes)... When the corruption goes away (is greatly reduced) and a market/capitalist economy is created that is free floating to a great extent then you will see change; not going to happen anytime soon.

Thailand doesn't want to change, most of Asia and other countries don't want to change. If you change everything, corruption goes away, education increases, jobs are created, wealth expands, etc.... You just modernized your country, great, you also just took away it's current competitive edge which is trying to attract western countries to move all their manufacturing here, you bankrupt the people that are in control now and their future family. Just take a look at China, 15 years ago they where nothing, Western countries opened up and said lets make stuff there, China agrees but fails to politically modernize for the most part. Now look at China, massively expensive, people are looking for other places to produce goods, Thailand is waiting for that spillover. Come to Thailand, we won't increase anything, the rich will stay rich we will ensure the middle class doesn't grow and the poor stay poor. The Thai's in power are not as stupid as you might think, they get it, they know what the average Thai wants and wants to hear.

This won't change for a LONG LONG LONG time if ever, change life this is forced, it's not adopted. People in power don't give up power, they keep it. Easiest way to stay in power, keep people stupid, complain with them, maneuver when they are not looking, make them feel they are smart even though they are not. ....

And last Political lesson for the day.... If your a politician who cares what happens to the country in 20 years, take what you can get now and let others worry about those issues in the future as you sit on your private island with Yacht parked close by being fed grapes and drinking fine wine. Politicians only think long term which means to the end of their political office after that they don't care unless it affects their private business, etc.

Edited May 21, 2013 by commande

[Thai at Heart]

Its the same thing that been going on forever in Thailand....

Thai's are not interested in competition, they don't want to import anything that competes with them unless they control it and get paid to import it. Just look at the high taxes to import anything into this country. Now take a look at the Export taxes in Thailand, there are almost ZERO compared to the 20%-125%+ Import taxes applied to just about everything. There is no fair trade among most countries with Thailand and they don't want it anyway.

The Thai don't understand how to compete, you can't compete in a corrupt society because the corrupt control everything to include money and politics (taxes)... When the corruption goes away (is greatly reduced) and a market/capitalist economy is created that is free floating to a great extent then you will see change; not going to happen anytime soon.

Thailand doesn't want to change, most of Asia and other countries don't want to change. If you change everything, corruption goes away, education increases, jobs are created, wealth expands, etc.... You just modernized your country, great, you also just took away it's current competitive edge which is trying to attract western countries to move all their manufacturing here, you bankrupt the people that are in control now and their future family. Just take a look at China, 15 years ago they where nothing, Western countries opened up and said lets make stuff there, China agrees but fails to politically modernize for the most part. Now look at China, massively expensive, people are looking for other places to produce goods, Thailand is waiting for that spillover. Come to Thailand, we won't increase anything, the rich will stay rich we will ensure the middle class doesn't grow and the poor stay poor. The Thai's in power are not as stupid as you might think, they get it, they know what the average Thai wants and wants to hear.

This won't change for a LONG LONG LONG time if ever, change life this is forced, it's not adopted. People in power don't give up power, they keep it. Easiest way to stay in power, keep people stupid, complain with them, maneuver when they are not looking, make them feel they are smart even though they are not. ....

And last Political lesson for the day.... If your a politician who cares what happens to the country in 20 years, take what you can get now and let others worry about those issues in the future as you sit on your private island with Yacht parked close by being fed grapes and drinking fine wine. Politicians only think long term which means to the end of their political office after that they don't care unless it affects their private business, etc.

I think you will find that all major agribusiness is Thai Chinese. It is they that have manipulated governments to keep the tax structures as they are.

[Soi Dog]

I get tired of the old victim act. It's a big world and thailand is happy to export low cost veggies to the EU. Why can't pig farmers here be competitive with US pig farmers? The answer may not lie so much with subsidies in the US as with inefficiencies and protective ag policies here in Thailand.

[commande]

I think you will find that all major agribusiness is Thai Chinese. It is they that have manipulated governments to keep the tax structures as they are.

Yes correct, but they are Thai Chinese and NOT Chinese. There families came here a generation ago with money, they quietly took over and here you are, the Thai Chinese kids naturalized in Thailand run most things .... You see, smart, not stupid... Definitely smart..

[jimjel]

Thai pork is both fresher and better tasting than American pork and is not full of chemicals like American pork.

[Halion]

It's really puzzling how US pork could be cheaper than Thai pork in the supermarket. What we really need is an investigative article examining the gouging in the Thai pork distribution market channels. That's what makes Thai pork higher, the gouging and the skim in the middle.

Totally agree. If the US can produce pork under far more stringent controls and with a far higher cost of labour and absorb export transportation costs and yet still get to the market place cheaper than Thai home grown then there is a serious problem with the local industry. Regardles of subsidy this simply should not be possible unless the Thai market is either highly unproductive or overpriced or both. No prizes for guessing.

[commande]

Thai pork is both fresher and better tasting than American pork and is not full of chemicals like American pork.

You have obviously never been to a Thai Pork Farm. Just take one look at the water they drink that is polluted with Diesel fuel leaking from the family truck, the garbage pile next to the feed bin. You don't have to feed them any chemicals, they get it naturally through all the trash and waste sitting on the side of the road or pumped into the drinking pond from the toilet the entire 20 person family uses not to mention shower water and other waste... Guarantee those combinations of chemicals are far far worse than the chemicals being spoke of here which by the way are NOT 100% used throughout the entire pork industry in the USA. You can purchase pork and other meat and vegetables that are not treated with anything.

Besides, if the chemicals that are being discussed here are illegal in Thailand than it's Thailand Import / Customs that will not allow the meat into the country because it doesn't conform to Thai Health Law. So in effect the USA couldn't export chemically treated meat to Thailand, USA Customs wouldn't even allow it to be exported - - - Of course that is never stated here nor on the news channels. Sure the checks are random and generally done in both countries, exporter and importer but not much ever gets through the system because the company that shipped in the bad meat not meeting code is generally banned from ever exporting meat to the country again. Not a price an exporter wants to pay so they generally do the right thing and ship the correct product.

You see it's really simple, but here we are the smoke and mirrors of news and politicians.... LOL

Edited May 21, 2013 by commande

[Halion]

I think you will find that all major agribusiness is Thai Chinese. It is they that have manipulated governments to keep the tax structures as they are.

Yes correct, but they are Thai Chinese and NOT Chinese. There families came here a generation ago with money, they quietly took over and here you are, the Thai Chinese kids naturalized in Thailand run most things .... You see, smart, not stupid... Definitely smart..

Oh yes, Smart , just like Thaksin. nuff said.

[slapout]

For those who have a real interest in comparing Thai vs US pork prices, google is your friend. Halion's last sentence *98 will give you a clue. Thailand lacks competation in many areas and where there is competation, price collusion is a major factor to consider.

As far as the farm price supports in the US, there seems to be few who realize how it works, the benifits and to whom, cost to the taxpayer, etc of the programs. And there are many. One of things that many programs do have in common is the farm products used to ensure that millions of the people of the US and other countries of the world have staples at an afforable price (free). Some people even suggest that these programs have made the US farmer more competative, price wise, and increased production which results in a lower unit price to the consumer.

So far the Thai farm programs, and yes they have and have had many have displayed little benifit to the general population, while contributing to the vast wealth of a few, who have put no effort into them, other than counting their ill gotten gains.

Edited May 21, 2013 by slapout

[ericthai]

What a terrible article. They reference one completely biased source and thats the basis for the whole article. Of course he is going to say insane things like "Americans are dying in droves from the chemicals" when he is the head of the Thai Swine Raisers Association.

The Nation didn't think to ask the other side on this issue, namely the US embassy, or at least other farmers...really?

Really, you expect real journalism in Thailand. Come on you should know by now how the papers work. They never check facts, just print whatever someone says. Half the time the story is full of holes you have no idea what they are even saying. Maybe some day they will get real journalists but until then we will just need to read and laugh.

[rmsgray]

I set up my mother in law in rearing pigs, she makes a good living from it now, breeding etc so im all for not allowing U.S. pork here, they have a big enough market to compete in at home. Oh and i dont have to support the family as they can do that themselves now

[winstonc]

glad im vegetarian,they can all go under,the way they treat animals ,all over the world,,,,,,,pork power i say,,,

[laislica]

I set up my mother in law in rearing pigs, she makes a good living from it now, breeding etc so im all for not allowing U.S. pork here, they have a big enough market to compete in at home. Oh and i dont have to support the family as they can do that themselves now

Jolly good but that last sentence was unnecessary.

Who you support or not is your business no one else's.

Good for you though.

[laislica]

I read the Greenpeace link about pesticides that was quoted earlier.

There was no mention of chems and animals though.

http://www.greenpeace.org/seasia/th/Global/seasia/report/2008/2/agrochemicals-in-thailand-eng.pdf

Edited May 21, 2013 by laislica

[Dr Wanchai]

When another country sells to the US products cheaper, they call it 'dumping', but when it's the other way round it's 'free trade' !

[hellodolly]

The simple solution is for the Thais to open the market in Thailand to U.S, Pork products bur ONLY those that can be certified free of antibiotics and other harmful chemicals.

Make the U.S, pork producers show proof of that and fine or ban any that don't comply with the health regulations.

The result would be:

1. better drug free Pork products

2. Higher prices for U.S, pork (due to costs of compliance with health rules),.

3. And therefore more competitive prices for local drug free Pork products.

A win-win situation for everyone. Just let the market do it on it's own, without government and those polly-a-ticians getting in the way of market forces.

Remember.... those that can, do. Those that can't do, teach. Those that can neither do nor teach run for office and hope to get elected as politicians.

Well I certainly like your idea of the market forces doing the job. However that is no reason to allow unapproved products into Thailand. If the market forces are so good how come the U S Government subsidizes so many farmers?

So you can see although it sounds good that is not enough there is a whole lot more to it.

[Thai at Heart]

I think you will find that all major agribusiness is Thai Chinese. It is they that have manipulated governments to keep the tax structures as they are.

Yes correct, but they are Thai Chinese and NOT Chinese. There families came here a generation ago with money, they quietly took over and here you are, the Thai Chinese kids naturalized in Thailand run most things .... You see, smart, not stupid... Definitely smart..

I never said they were stupid, it is just that as it stands today, their protectionist policies are actually detrimental to both farmers and consumers.

[SunsetT]

"Swine Raisers Association of Thailand"....Closely affiliated with the Thai PTA...... !

[COXYATCITY]

piss off America send your pork to Afganistan,times are very hard here for farmers as it is ,a lot of local farmers have gone out of business already because of the high price of feed and low price at the farm gate,at the moment pork is 55-60 baht at the farm gate,but will get down to 40 something baht in a couple of months when buddhist lent starts,some of you think about the price of bacon etc, 2-600 baht a kilo.that never goes down

[Greer]

Hang on a minute - The US subsidies its farmers - Never see that happening in Thailand

...and as for bringing down domestic prices - well that's good for the consumer isn't it?

In the short term it seems so - but in the long term, the destruction of the domestic industry will eventually cause prices to rise here, and puts Thailand's consumers under US control - not to mention the nasty health risks from the crap the Americans add to the pork.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

When another country sells to the US products cheaper, they call it 'dumping', but when it's the other way round it's 'free trade' !

except nobody can ever document a case where the USA product was for sale cheaper than the Thai product.

The USA products tend to sell at a big premium for various reasons like quality and brand.

[lovetotravel]

I think you will find that all major agribusiness is Thai Chinese. It is they that have manipulated governments to keep the tax structures as they are.

Yes correct, but they are Thai Chinese and NOT Chinese. There families came here a generation ago with money, they quietly took over and here you are, the Thai Chinese kids naturalized in Thailand run most things .... You see, smart, not stupid... Definitely smart..

Actually, the big rice millers up in Issan are from China. Not Thai-Chinese. Same goes with many of the businesses around here.

Off topic, but go to Malaysia. Chinese are doing a lot of the plam oil plantations there. Africa they are taking over agriculture also.

I think I'd much rather have a large agri business from the EU or American than one from China.

[chooka]

American bacon compared to Aussie Bacon. I know what I prefer. The Thais would do well to reject the American pork. Full of fat and a heart attack waiting to happen. The Americans have shoved KFC and Macca's into the faces of Thais all for the dollar with total disregard for thier health. Thailand reject American food.....

Edited May 21, 2013 by chooka

[chooka]

For those who have a real interest in comparing Thai vs US pork prices, google is your friend. Halion's last sentence *98 will give you a clue. Thailand lacks competation in many areas and where there is competation, price collusion is a major factor to consider.

As far as the farm price supports in the US, there seems to be few who realize how it works, the benifits and to whom, cost to the taxpayer, etc of the programs. And there are many. One of things that many programs do have in common is the farm products used to ensure that millions of the people of the US and other countries of the world have staples at an afforable price (free). Some people even suggest that these programs have made the US farmer more competative, price wise, and increased production which results in a lower unit price to the consumer.

So far the Thai farm programs, and yes they have and have had many have displayed little benifit to the general population, while contributing to the vast wealth of a few, who have put no effort into them, other than counting their ill gotten gains.

Well lets thank America for being the worlds food bowl, without them we would all starve. Come on the world doesn't really on America for it's food.

I know America is wondeful and the very best in everything, geez they even have the best wild Kangaroos in the world.

Edited May 21, 2013 by chooka

[chooka]

glad im vegetarian,they can all go under,the way they treat animals ,all over the world,,,,,,,pork power i say,,,

You must be throwing up just reading this topic, why do you torture yourself so?

Pass me another pork chop, let the blood drip I like it that way.

Edited May 21, 2013 by chooka

[LingLek]

competition is a good thing right? As long as its not all GM modified, with 5 legs and 2 HAMS I'm all for it.

No, it's not. Competition is a vile thing, responsible for most of the ills in the world. Good God, man, have a heart.

[Thai at Heart]

I think you will find that all major agribusiness is Thai Chinese. It is they that have manipulated governments to keep the tax structures as they are.

Yes correct, but they are Thai Chinese and NOT Chinese. There families came here a generation ago with money, they quietly took over and here you are, the Thai Chinese kids naturalized in Thailand run most things .... You see, smart, not stupid... Definitely smart..

Actually, the big rice millers up in Issan are from China. Not Thai-Chinese. Same goes with many of the businesses around here.

Off topic, but go to Malaysia. Chinese are doing a lot of the plam oil plantations there. Africa they are taking over agriculture also.

I think I'd much rather have a large agri business from the EU or American than one from China.

There is a 51:49 Chinese partnership for rubber processing opening in Udon soon. Of course the 51 Thai aren't nominees. Lol

[bunnydrops]

First off I would like to say I'm American and I think the taste of pork there has gone down hill in at least the last 10 years.

Here in Thailand I get my pork from the back of a pickup. The farmer kills a pig every couple of days and then drives around till it is sold. I have been to the farm to check it out BECAUSE on one of my bus trips, the bus made a pit stop. After I paid my 3 baht, and finished my business, I took a walk around and happen to see that the toilets fed down to a bunch of happy pigs.

A little off subject and out of this country. When I was in Mexico there was this meat market where all the expats bought their meat Compared to the other markets, this one was clean and the meat was not covered with flies like all the other meat markets. One morning I was coming home quite late and saw them spraying the meat down with Black Flag.