Democrazy In Thailand

[richard10365]

The last few months have been a bit crazy in Thailand. Bangkok has a group of people who want to get rid of the current Prime Minister.

So the current Prime Minister called for an election by the population of Thailand. The opposition to the Prime Minister said his group will not honor those results and will not quit their protest until he steps down.

If Thailand votes and it is the majority of the population pick Thaskin, and the small group in Bangkok still causes trouble and forces Thaskin out of office would that be democracy?

If the votes of the rest of the nation are ignored how can that be democracy? If 55 million people vote for Thaskin and 10 million force him from office by force, where is the democracy in that?

Would you still say Thailand has a democracy?

[h90]

there are already 1.000.000 posts about that, but the facts:

toxin was never democratic elected, he did massive vote buying and will do at the next vote

he controll most of the mass media (now it is getting a bit better) which only cheers him and don't show any other parties

he did massive, fraud, corruption, lying and violence so the others think such an evil guy is not allowed to get premier.....

The last few months have been a bit crazy in Thailand. Bangkok has a group of people who want to get rid of the current Prime Minister.

So the current Prime Minister called for an election by the population of Thailand. The opposition to the Prime Minister said his group will not honor those results and will not quit their protest until he steps down.

If Thailand votes and it is the majority of the population pick Thaskin, and the small group in Bangkok still causes trouble and forces Thaskin out of office would that be democracy?

If the votes of the rest of the nation are ignored how can that be democracy? If 55 million people vote for Thaskin and 10 million force him from office by force, where is the democracy in that?

Would you still say Thailand has a democracy?

[richard10365]

there are already 1.000.000 posts about that, but the facts:

toxin was never democratic elected, he did massive vote buying and will do at the next vote

he controll most of the mass media (now it is getting a bit better) which only cheers him and don't show any other parties

he did massive, fraud, corruption, lying and violence so the others think such an evil guy is not allowed to get premier.....

The last few months have been a bit crazy in Thailand. Bangkok has a group of people who want to get rid of the current Prime Minister.

So the current Prime Minister called for an election by the population of Thailand. The opposition to the Prime Minister said his group will not honor those results and will not quit their protest until he steps down.

If Thailand votes and it is the majority of the population pick Thaskin, and the small group in Bangkok still causes trouble and forces Thaskin out of office would that be democracy?

If the votes of the rest of the nation are ignored how can that be democracy? If 55 million people vote for Thaskin and 10 million force him from office by force, where is the democracy in that?

Would you still say Thailand has a democracy?

How can you call your comments facts? It sounds like you could put Mr Thaskin in jail if your comments were facts. It sounds like your facts are only your opinion. Facts are something you can prove not what you think.

However, if what your saying is true, and he gets reelected the same way, then I think his form of democrazy is better than the oppositions form of ignoring the wishes of 50 million Thai voters.

If the guy wants to make a case agaisnt the PM he should get out of Bangkok and take his case to the people of Thailand and not the few million in Bangkok.

Mob democracy is not democracy...its just replacing one dictator with another.

[Maigo6]

How can you call your comments facts? It sounds like you could put Mr Thaskin in jail if your comments were facts.

They are just opinions,

If under Thaksin the Land ownership laws had been relaxed allowing Farangs the opportunity to OWN 1 rai of land outright, good Farangs here would be screaming for Thaksin to stay. As it is.................well you get the picture.

I have no doubts at all, that the Farangs here really do care about what happens to them and their status in Thailand, beyond that, I doubt they are that interested, they are powerless to change anything anyway.

[barryofthailand]

Democracy comes in many forms. If the OP is talking about the same type of democracy we have in the west then the answer is no Thailand does not have the same kind of democracy,Though Thailand is a democratic state.

Both sides buy votes, so you cannot say just the Thai Rok Thai party does this.

The people against Thaksin say that he did wrong in his corperate dealings while Prime Minister, something like the Enron dealings in the states.

No matter what bthe result of this election, that will not solve the problem, and if the new government can gather enough votes for impeachment they will do so.

Barry

[Orion76]

toxin was never democratic elected, he did massive vote buying and will do at the next vote

All parties buy votes so that evens it out. If all parties ran in the next election and nobody would buy votes Thaksin would still win.

The real question is, does democracy really work in a country where people with enough education to understand politics are in the minority?

[astral]

Democracy in Thailand is in its infancy.

My wife does not vote. She does not think it is worthwhile.

Until that attitude is changed people like Taksin will remain in power.

A bit like the US, come to think of it.

Edited March 25, 2006 by astral

[Deke]

Regardless of which politician you're talking about or what party they come from, Thai politics is all about personal interest, not the public interest.

[Prakanong2005]

As I reading Chris Pattens book, East and West, at the moment I will quote what he would say about Thailand.

He would say its a Democracy but not a Liberal Democracy as the rule of law is lacking in many area's.

In fact he even states in one point, The lawlessness of Thailand -

[OldAsiaHand]

....A bit like the US, come to think of it.

No, not at all like the US.

'A government not of men, but of laws,' we were all taught in school that we were, and that's absolutely true. Most western style democracies like the US and the UK are ultimately stablized by a shared belief in the value of institutions. Thailand has no institutions that anyone at all believes in other than the presumably non-political monarchy. It is the opposite of the US, a 'government not of laws, but of men.'

It is interesting to note that every single American newspaper I have read has condemed this mob challenge to a legitimately elected prime minister here in Thailand. From the Wall Street Journal and Bloomberg on the right to the New York Times and the Washington Post on the left, they have been unanimous. This is a test of whether democracy can work in Asia, they say. If a mob led by a few self-promoting loudmouths succeeds in preventing a legitimately elected leader from governing, then Thailand's prospects, and the prospects for democracy in Southeast Asia in general, will have been dealt a terrible set back.

[aaaaaa]

ha! niace and somewhat familiar wording or phrasing - "democrazy" !

reminds me something I've heard or read once some years back, like: "demons never allow freedom or people's rule because they love their own power, often absolute. but sometime they play with concepts and pretend being liberal - sort of become a bit crazy. so, the social order they impose is actually not Democracy, but rather Demons-crazy."

what's democracy anyway. not just here in Thailand? this words becomes sort of stereotype already, worn out slogan which after sometime losses its meaning. how many of those trumpeting it as their main agenda realy follow principles of real Democracy (reminds of religeous practitiones who also don't properly follow their own religion). and the general mass of people, brainwashed by constant propaganda, how many of them even stop to think about what democracy is, not to say understand it ?

by definition Thailand is Constitutional Monarchy anyway, why measure it by democratic scale ?

and if it was allowed to remain as it supposed to be Constitutional Monarchy in its real sens, well, at least with present King, I bet it might be much better off than many so called "democracies" of the West. may be even Absolute Monarchy would be better then some or most of "democracies".

[richard10365]

So far it seems the majority of opinions feel "mob rule" would eliminate Thailand from the democracy club.

[Guest deltakid]

i think the major problem is the education level of many thai people in the north.. they are too easy to manipulate by someone like thaksin, the same happened with bush and the americans though lol

[pitrevie]

I like the following quote from an American who said most of the sensible things to be said on democracy.

"I know no safe depositary of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power." --Thomas Jefferson

[Prakanong2005]

....A bit like the US, come to think of it.

No, not at all like the US.

'A government not of men, but of laws,' we were all taught in school that we were, and that's absolutely true. Most western style democracies like the US and the UK are ultimately stablized by a shared belief in the value of institutions. Thailand has no institutions that anyone at all believes in other than the presumably non-political monarchy. It is the opposite of the US, a 'government not of laws, but of men.'

It is interesting to note that every single American newspaper I have read has condemed this mob challenge to a legitimately elected prime minister here in Thailand. From the Wall Street Journal and Bloomberg on the right to the New York Times and the Washington Post on the left, they have been unanimous. This is a test of whether democracy can work in Asia, they say. If a mob led by a few self-promoting loudmouths succeeds in preventing a legitimately elected leader from governing, then Thailand's prospects, and the prospects for democracy in Southeast Asia in general, will have been dealt a terrible set back.

Good post

The Patten book I spoke of talks about this and Asian Values a lot

[richard10365]

Maybe the reason they don't like Thaskin in Bangkok is because the Bangkok people are greedy and don't care about the rest of Thailand.

Up country people are greatful for the things Thaskin has done to help them. Most are simple people with uncomplicated lives. They appreciate the simple things, such as health care, that he has done.

Maybe thats why they vote for him.

[jdinasia]

I like the following quote from an American who said most of the sensible things to be said on democracy.

"I know no safe depositary of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power." --Thomas Jefferson

Nice quote ...

Sadly until the last few weeks the press towed the Gov't line through both censorship and self-censorship. So may as well give up on that.

[jdinasia]

....A bit like the US, come to think of it.

No, not at all like the US.

'A government not of men, but of laws,' we were all taught in school that we were, and that's absolutely true. Most western style democracies like the US and the UK are ultimately stablized by a shared belief in the value of institutions. Thailand has no institutions that anyone at all believes in other than the presumably non-political monarchy. It is the opposite of the US, a 'government not of laws, but of men.'

It is interesting to note that every single American newspaper I have read has condemed this mob challenge to a legitimately elected prime minister here in Thailand. From the Wall Street Journal and Bloomberg on the right to the New York Times and the Washington Post on the left, they have been unanimous. This is a test of whether democracy can work in Asia, they say. If a mob led by a few self-promoting loudmouths succeeds in preventing a legitimately elected leader from governing, then Thailand's prospects, and the prospects for democracy in Southeast Asia in general, will have been dealt a terrible set back.

Wow ... in your first paragraph you point out quite rightly that this is Thailand! It is not a place with well developed institutions <YET!>.

Then point out that American newspapers don't like what is going on here? Wow! Wow! You might read the VoA website or further down this sub-forum for a balanced report

Thailand is at a threshhold ... a scary one. Since '92 it has been up and down and all over yet it is growing stronger. Those that think that there are viable simplistic answers like .... "just have an election in 30 days and it will be alright" need to spend a few days thinking it through. How can Thailand's fledgeling Democracy be nutrured with this overt level of problem at the very top? How can it be nurtured and given strength to grow when the checks and balances that exist in other democracies don't exist here?

I don't puport to have the answers. I do think that a royally appointed PM for about 4-6 months would be a good step to progress! During that time some real work needs to be done on the Constitution and some real work to get the Institutions like the NCCC and EC and Constituion Court ...and freedom of the press back in working order!

Thankfully I have no horse in this race so can sit back and just think about how it "should" be and how to get there.

[jdinasia]

Maybe the reason they don't like Thaskin in Bangkok is because the Bangkok people are greedy and don't care about the rest of Thailand.

Up country people are greatful for the things Thaskin has done to help them. Most are simple people with uncomplicated lives. They appreciate the simple things, such as health care, that he has done.

Maybe thats why they vote for him.

Maybe ... or maybe they vote because of populist unsustainable policies and promises combined with a lack of information and pressure from the party machines?

[aaaaaa]

Thailand is not even a Republic ! - what to speak a Democracy !

one of previous Kings has graciously granted constitution which has absolute power to Consitutional. and ever since this group or that, mostly military or police, were fighting for power.

democratically elected PM and then functional - is already quite an achivement ! since elections are considered main pillar of democracy.

[Maigo6]

Maybe ... or maybe they vote because of populist unsustainable policies and promises combined with a lack of information and pressure from the party machines?

Yea.........and you would be so much better.................I wanna vote for u......you must be better cos u r farang, the fact that Thaksin is a Billionaire businessman who has made it, pales into insignifigance compared with you. why oh why are so many farangs jealous of Thai people that have money ?

[Maigo6]

At the end of the day, you guyz will be guyz posting on an internet forum ( wow ), and people like Thaksin Shinawatra lead countries.

[jdinasia]

Thailand is not even a Republic ! - what to speak a Democracy !

one of previous Kings has graciously granted constitution which has absolute power to Consitutional. and ever since this group or that, mostly military or police, were fighting for power.

democratically elected PM and then functional - is already quite an achivement ! since elections are considered main pillar of democracy.

Care to translate that into English?

Maybe ... or maybe they vote because of populist unsustainable policies and promises combined with a lack of information and pressure from the party machines?

Yea.........and you would be so much better.................I wanna vote for u......you must be better cos u r farang, the fact that Thaksin is a Billionaire businessman who has made it, pales into insignifigance compared with you. why oh why are so many farangs jealous of Thai people that have money ?

5555 I don't quite see what that has to do with what you quoted me as saying .... but I am one of the smart farang in Thailand ... my friend has Money ... so what?

At the end of the day, you guyz will be guyz posting on an internet forum ( wow ), and people like Thaksin Shinawatra lead countries.

Yes .. it is nice seeing you here at the end of the day!

If being a billionaire was a goal of mine I'd surely fail ..... however having enough to be comfortable is nice :-)

Maigo ... I don't know anyone that is jealous of Thaksin ... along with that kind of money comes a whole new set of problems. I certainly don't want to be PM of ANY country!

[cclub75]

They don't know the first french constitution : 24 june 1793.

And especially, the article # 35.

"Article 35. - Quand le gouvernement viole les droits du peuple, l'insurrection est, pour le peuple et pour chaque portion du peuple, le plus sacré des droits et le plus indispensable des devoirs."

When the government infringes the people's rights, insurrection is, for the people, the most holly right and the most indispensable duty.

Voilà ! At that time, they knew how to write a constitution...

[richard10365]

They don't know the first french constitution : 24 june 1793.

And especially, the article # 35.

"Article 35. - Quand le gouvernement viole les droits du peuple, l'insurrection est, pour le peuple et pour chaque portion du peuple, le plus sacré des droits et le plus indispensable des devoirs."

When the government infringes the people's rights, insurrection is, for the people, the most holly right and the most indispensable duty.

Voilà ! At that time, they knew how to write a constitution...

hahahaha...the French. The country that believed when that constitution was written it was ok to trample the rights of foreigners if they were not French. So they invaded countries all over the world, planted their flag, and forced their will on other peoples while they raped their land of it's treasures.

Their sence of values is, like the USA, based on taking advantage of weaker people in order to feed their greed and expand their property the whole time making excuses for what they are doing so they can continue to justify their murdering, plundering, and insane conquest of the innocent.

Their constitution looks good on paper...thats about it.

[Thaible]

I like the following quote from an American who said most of the sensible things to be said on democracy.

"I know no safe depositary of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power." --Thomas Jefferson

Good quote. Maybe the opposition should focus on how they can improve the country versus mud-slinging.

[Thaible]

I like the following quote from an American who said most of the sensible things to be said on democracy.

"I know no safe depositary of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power." --Thomas Jefferson

Nice quote ...

Sadly until the last few weeks the press towed the Gov't line through both censorship and self-censorship. So may as well give up on that.

If you really believe there is no freedom of the press, you should read the Nation sometime.

They should rename themselves the PAD Post. About 10 anti-Thaksin articles for every pro.

[LoveDaBlues]

At the end of the day, you guyz will be guyz posting on an internet forum ( wow ), and people like Thaksin Shinawatra lead countries.

Toxin a leader...... ........hardly. He's divided a country......real leaders unite. Bush has divided a country because of his stupidity and poor decisions.

BTW.......you're right here with us 'guyz'........posting away ( wow ) ......

[jdinasia]

I like the following quote from an American who said most of the sensible things to be said on democracy.

"I know no safe depositary of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power." --Thomas Jefferson

Nice quote ...

Sadly until the last few weeks the press towed the Gov't line through both censorship and self-censorship. So may as well give up on that.

Try reading that line again

If you really believe there is no freedom of the press, you should read the Nation sometime.

They should rename themselves the PAD Post. About 10 anti-Thaksin articles for every pro.

And then compare the English language papers to the Thai language papers over the last years

Edited March 26, 2006 by jdinasia

[Misplaced]

Maybe the reason they don't like Thaskin in Bangkok is because the Bangkok people are greedy and don't care about the rest of Thailand.

Up country people are greatful for the things Thaskin has done to help them. Most are simple people with uncomplicated lives. They appreciate the simple things, such as health care, that he has done.

Maybe thats why they vote for him.

I was in Thailand for the last 4 weeks and took the oppoturties to discussed political issues with my friends, family and many of the people i met who cares to dicussed. These people are taxi drivers, nurses, servers and an owner of a resort on Samui which she happens to be a retired Economic professor. The majority seems to appreciate Thaksin. They have the same opinion which translate to "opportunities". They like Thaksin because he gave them opportunity to own a home, slowly increased their wages to a livable standards, and revised their helath care programs.

I went north to chiangrai and down south to samui and stayed many places in between (bkk included). The concensus seems to be very positive toward Thaksin. To be honest, I rarely find middle to lower income people who hated Thaksin and a few of the upper income level as well.

After listening to what they have to say and how he has helped elevated their lives, I can't find myself to hate him either.