D S I To File Murder Charges Against Abhisit, Suthep; Fabio Polenghi

[webfact]

DSI to file murder charges against Abhisit, Suthep
By Digital Media



BANGKOK, May 30 – Thailand's Department of Special Investigation (DSI) is mulling additional charges against former prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and his deputy Suthep Thaugsuban in connection with the death of Italian photographer Fabio Polenghi in the 2010 political violence in Bangkok.

Wannapong Kotcharag, DSI deputy director general, said investigation officials will take into consideration the Criminal Court’s verdict yesterday that Mr Polenghi was killed by a bullet fired from the direction of the government authorities.

Mr Abhisit and former deputy prime minister Suthep have been charged with ordering the crackdown on Red Shirt protesters during the April-May 2010 anti-government political demonstrations in Bangkok during which 91 people were killed.

Mr Suthep was concurrently director of the now-dissolved Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation during the political upheaval.

The two politicians earlier appeared before the DSI to acknowledge the charges but maintained they were innocent.

Pol Lt Col Wannapong said Mr Abhisit and Mr Suthep were instructed to produce their written clarifications on the case within a deadline of 10 days.

After receiving their written statements, DSI investigative committee will decide if it will file lawsuits against the two former leaders for premeditated murder.

The Criminal Court, in its verdict yesterday, did not say who opened fire at Mr Polenghi in the fatal shooting on May 19, 2010. (MCOT online news)


-- TNA 2013-05-30

[GentlemanJim]

It's pathetic. How can a prosecution lawyer prove beyond doubt that the bullet was fired by a soldier. For Murder to stick as a charge they would also have to prove that the bullet was fired at the journalist by a soldier. ABout time the DSI started tackling real crime in this country instead of dreaming up more charges designed to ensure Abhisit does nothing but attend court cases during parliamentary down time.

[A Member]

It's pathetic. How can a prosecution lawyer prove beyond doubt that the bullet was fired by a soldier. For Murder to stick as a charge they would also have to prove that the bullet was fired at the journalist by a soldier. ABout time the DSI started tackling real crime in this country instead of dreaming up more charges designed to ensure Abhisit does nothing but attend court cases during parliamentary down time.

You are quite right but I'm sure the government isn't too concerned about evidence or even getting all these cases into court as they are quite happy with character assassination. Not bad from a party that promotes an arsonist.

[jes]

You right regarding the issue. " bullet was fired by a soldier" But they can make tets and examinations, if they got the bullet, to see if it match the weapon soldiers used.

[geriatrickid]

It's pathetic. How can a prosecution lawyer prove beyond doubt that the bullet was fired by a soldier. For Murder to stick as a charge they would also have to prove that the bullet was fired at the journalist by a soldier. ABout time the DSI started tackling real crime in this country instead of dreaming up more charges designed to ensure Abhisit does nothing but attend court cases during parliamentary down time.

The DSI does have an obligation to investigate as it is the civil authority that has that authority in Thailand to investigate allegations of this scope and nature. The filing of charges is part of the process peculiar to how investigations are carried out in Thailand.

The bigger issue is that the procedures and laws used to investigate allegations of this sort are not appropriate. It is a flawed structure combined with a flawed process. There is no way any reasonable person would accuse the former PM of "murdering" the Italian journalist. Unfortunately, the screwed Thai system gives us this result. The end result tarnishes the judicial process. What this event speaks to is that Thailand needs an overhaul of its applicable laws and investigative bodies.

[chainarong]

You right regarding the issue. " bullet was fired by a soldier" But they can make test and examinations, if they got the bullet, to see if it match the weapon soldiers used.

Yeah the bullet was or should I say supposed to be army ordnance, in Thailand you could never be sure Jes.

[Thai at Heart]

It's pathetic. How can a prosecution lawyer prove beyond doubt that the bullet was fired by a soldier. For Murder to stick as a charge they would also have to prove that the bullet was fired at the journalist by a soldier. ABout time the DSI started tackling real crime in this country instead of dreaming up more charges designed to ensure Abhisit does nothing but attend court cases during parliamentary down time.

They have to prove that the shots were fired in line with the "rules of engagement" set by Abhisit and Suthep. Now, does anyone really believe that Abhisit signed a piece of paper saying to shoot at unarmed protestors?

It surely would have been to shoot if in danger, self defence etc. It is the army who should be on the hook for these issues, but of course they never will be. If the army broke the terms of engagement, they are culpable.

[AleG]

The whole point of this is to get the international headlines "Ex Thai PM Abhisit accused of murder of Italian journalist". Thaksin will cream his shorts when he sees it.

[Trembly]

You right regarding the issue. " bullet was fired by a soldier" But they can make test and examinations, if they got the bullet, to see if it match the weapon soldiers used.

Yeah the bullet was or should I say supposed to be army ordnance, in Thailand you could never be sure Jes.

Regardless of mass-production, no two usage patterns for any gun - and therefore the condition of the rifling inside the barrel - are going to be absolutely identical. With the right gear and expertise bullets can be matched to individual guns by examining the rifling marks.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Trembly

[JetsetBkk]

DSI to file murder charges against Abhisit, Suthep

OMG! They will, will they?

DSI investigative committee will decide if it will file lawsuits against the two former leaders for premeditated murder.

Oh. No, they won't.

Typical BS headline from MCOT.

[HarryMilton]

You right regarding the issue. " bullet was fired by a soldier" But they can make test and examinations, if they got the bullet, to see if it match the weapon soldiers used.

Yeah the bullet was or should I say supposed to be army ordnance, in Thailand you could never be sure Jes.

Regardless of mass-production, no two usage patterns for any gun - and therefore the condition of the rifling inside the barrel - are going to be absolutely identical. With the right gear and expertise bullets can be matched to individual guns by examining the rifling marks.

Don't they need the gun for that?

[Bellweather]

The whole point of this is to get the international headlines "Ex Thai PM Abhisit accused of murder of Italian journalist". Thaksin will cream his shorts when he sees it.

Yes they get the headlines and that's why they won't worry about actually taking the cases to trial as they don't want the next headlines to read " Democrats' leaders acquitted " or " Charges against Democrats dropped ".

[saltandpepper]

Ridiculousness at its best!

[seajae]

ballistics will never happen because the DSI already know that it will clear abhisit from being accused of this. All this is for is to make him look bad and thaksin is paying the DSI to do it. There will never be any solid evidence provided, only innuendo, the guns used have been destroyed by the red/black shirts and their cohorts.

[seajae]

You right regarding the issue. " bullet was fired by a soldier" But they can make test and examinations, if they got the bullet, to see if it match the weapon soldiers used.

Yeah the bullet was or should I say supposed to be army ordnance, in Thailand you could never be sure Jes.

Regardless of mass-production, no two usage patterns for any gun - and therefore the condition of the rifling inside the barrel - are going to be absolutely identical. With the right gear and expertise bullets can be matched to individual guns by examining the rifling marks.

Don't they need the gun for that?

They could check every rifle issued to the army personal concerned to be tested, if any matched they would then be able to identify the person that did the shooting but it will not match any army issue rifles.

[kurnell]

Is there anything in the universe more ridiculous than Thai politics?

[amore]

It's pathetic. How can a prosecution lawyer prove beyond doubt that the bullet was fired by a soldier. For Murder to stick as a charge they would also have to prove that the bullet was fired at the journalist by a soldier. ABout time the DSI started tackling real crime in this country instead of dreaming up more charges designed to ensure Abhisit does nothing but attend court cases during parliamentary down time.

They have to prove that the shots were fired in line with the "rules of engagement" set by Abhisit and Suthep. Now, does anyone really believe that Abhisit signed a piece of paper saying to shoot at unarmed protestors?

It surely would have been to shoot if in danger, self defence etc. It is the army who should be on the hook for these issues, but of course they never will be. If the army broke the terms of engagement, they are culpable.

"They have to prove that the shots were fired in line with the "rules of engagement" set by Abhisit and Suthep. Now, does anyone really believe that Abhisit signed a piece of paper saying to shoot at unarmed protestors?"

Well, Amsterdam and Peroff LLP certainly do and apparently have the evidence (see Appendix 2 of link)

After the first failed crackdown, modified rules of engagement were approved by CRES on 18 April 2010, which expanded the powers of officials to use lethal force in order to protect “other people, official property, and private citizens under their guard.” The modified rules of engagement authorized security forces to use live ammunition against:

1) Anyone seen carrying weapons who disregarded a no trespassing order, posed any danger to others, or prepared to use the weapons against officials or the general public;

2) Unarmed civilians moving in a large crowd who contravened a no trespassing order and were perceived to pose an unspecified“danger;”

3) Anyone who resisted arrest or refused to submit to a search.

The modified rules of engagement also approved the deployment of snipers who could target armed persons mixed with crowds of “innocent people” and allowed the provision of medical assistance to those injured, “according to human rights principles,” only “after officials have managed to bring the situation under control.”

Because the modified rules of engagement were approved almost one month in advance of the crackdown of 13-19 May 2010, former Prime Minister Abhisit was aware of the plan he was authorizing when he ordered the commencement of military operations on 12 May 2010. http://www.scribd.com/doc/116679170/Addendum-on-former-Prime-Minister-Abhisit-Vejjajiva%E2%80%99s-criminal-responsibility-under-the-Rome-Statute-of-the-ICC

For those of you who haven't immediately dismissed this because of its source, it appears that Amsterdam is either very stupid and lying through his teeth or he really does have this proof. If that is the case, the ROE above does not appear to apply to international norms as was assured by the former PM.

[jbrain]

ballistics will never happen because the DSI already know that it will clear abhisit from being accused of this. All this is for is to make him look bad and thaksin is paying the DSI to do it. There will never be any solid evidence provided, only innuendo, the guns used have been destroyed by the red/black shirts and their cohorts.

It's not to make him look bad. They are " creating " a reason for him to support the dubious amnesty law, also called Thaksins white wash law.

[ggold]

After receiving their written statements, DSI investigative committee will decide if it will file lawsuits against the two former leaders for premeditated murder.

So Abhisit actually planned to kill the journalist! Yet they cannot prove 100% who fired the bullet! So will Thaksin be indicted for the extra judicial killings during his drugs war? Which, one could argue was premeditated murder without trial?

It is sad to see Thai politics reduced to what it is now.

[amore]

ballistics will never happen because the DSI already know that it will clear abhisit from being accused of this. All this is for is to make him look bad and thaksin is paying the DSI to do it. There will never be any solid evidence provided, only innuendo, the guns used have been destroyed by the red/black shirts and their cohorts.

Do you really believe that the eye witnesses are wrong and you, who were presumably not there or have heard the evidence, are right and that Polenghi was shot by the red/black shirts and the guns that were used have been destroyed ?

Honestly, do you really believe that is what happened?

[bigbamboo]

Is there anything in the universe more ridiculous than Thai politics?

Oh, there must be. Surely?

Let me have a think about it and get back to you.

[DiamondKing]

Getting what they Deserve

How many is that now ? but still lots more murder charges to be filed since they were responsible for 90 odd deaths

[TackyToo]

You right regarding the issue. " bullet was fired by a soldier" But they can make tets and examinations, if they got the bullet, to see if it match the weapon soldiers used.

And you believe all the army weapons in this country are only held and used by soldiers???

[steveromagnino]

To be fair MCOT is the mouthpiece of Thaksin, given that it is indirectly controlled by Khunying Sudarat and another nominee of the former PM.

This is part of the ongoing squeeze to first of all show there is the extreme amnesty bill (which gets rejected) by Chalerm (who is paid well to take the fall and blow to his pride) so a more 'moderate' version gets passed which then gets pushed out to extend scope slowly to include more and more reasons why amnesty is a good idea (no debate actually as to whether anyone should actually take responsibility for their own personal actions) and this is the squeeze on the opposition to play ball as well.

This then delivers the promise to the red shirts, and in the meantime further manouveres stop the other ongoing court cases against the boss.

[Emdog]

"(DSI) is mulling additional charges against former prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva" In other words, waiting to see what sort of financial gain can be had from which parties. Love to be a fly on the wall of those mulling sessions!

[Thai at Heart]

Existing rules of engagement, which the CRES outlined in April, mandated seven steps of

increasingly “heavy” measures before live ammunition could be fired, and then only in the

air.153 On May 14, the CRES set out new, expanded rules of engagement that liberalized the

use of live fire against the protesters. Under the new rules, soldiers were allowed to use live

ammunition in three circumstances: as warning shots to deter demonstrators from moving

closer; for self-defense; and when forces have “a clear visual of terrorists.”

http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/reports/thailand0511webwcover_0.pdf

So there you are, did the army shooter have a "clear visual of terrorists"? If not, who broke the rules of engagements. As general as this statement is, if you can't prove it was "clearly" a terrorist, you can't shoot.

[whybother]

Getting what they Deserve

How many is that now ? but still lots more murder charges to be filed since they were responsible for 90 odd deaths

Are they responsible for people being blown up by grenades too?

[GentlemanJim]

Is there anything in the universe more ridiculous than Thai politics?

A good question. Even by comparison the 'Monster Raving Looney Party' in the UK are a serious political adversary. To my knowledge only the Zaringian Tharung party for the equality of single cell life forms on Planet Zaring in the Delta Quadrant are anywhere near as ridiculous as PTP.

Edited May 30, 2013 by GentlemanJim

[Thai at Heart]

Is there anything in the universe more ridiculous than Thai politics?

A good question. Even by comparison the 'Monster Raving Looney Party' in the UK are a serious political adversary. To my knowledge only the Zaringian Tharung party for the equality of single cell life forms on Planet Zaring in the Delta Quadrant are anywhere near as ridiculous as PTP.

I can't believe they bother to put up charges that they have virtually zero chance of proving. Of course, they are part of the prosecution service, but it shows how ridiculous the whole system is that you are able to pursue charges that you have a snowballs chance in hell of prevaling with. This goes with the charges of terrorism against the other side.

Charge them with all sorts of things, but murder? All it does is cause massive inconvenience and eventually the dismissal of charges. I would suggest that the prosecutor would, in other parts of the world, be charged with wasting the courts time.

[amore]

Existing rules of engagement, which the CRES outlined in April, mandated seven steps of

increasingly “heavy” measures before live ammunition could be fired, and then only in the

air.153 On May 14, the CRES set out new, expanded rules of engagement that liberalized the

use of live fire against the protesters. Under the new rules, soldiers were allowed to use live

ammunition in three circumstances: as warning shots to deter demonstrators from moving

closer; for self-defense; and when forces have “a clear visual of terrorists.”

http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/reports/thailand0511webwcover_0.pdf

So there you are, did the army shooter have a "clear visual of terrorists"? If not, who broke the rules of engagements. As general as this statement is, if you can't prove it was "clearly" a terrorist, you can't shoot.

The ROE quoted by the HRW (wrong date quoted by HRW) were those that the Army Spokesman said they were following.

The Army said a lot of things, they hadn't shot anyone, they didn't use live ammunition, they didn't have snipers (they were the more cuddly sounding "marksmen" it turned out), they didn't have any troops on the line above the Wat, they didn't shoot into the Wat, they were fired on from inside the Wat, need I go on.

Just how truthful do you think the Army Spokesman (promoted after the event, presumably for services to the entertainment industry) was?