' Square-faced Man' A New Hit Song

[sriracha john]

kun Siripon, kob kun maak krap! I've been searching for the translation of this song for quite a long time and this is the first time that I can have a glimpse of the whole meaning. Thanks for your effort!

Sorry, but if you can't understand the Thai version, you will not catch the full meaning of this song. You only got a very watered down translation without the juicy parts, without any of the extremely drogatory forms of adress and epressions. With this translation it is impossible to understand why this song is infuriating Thaksin supporters.

yet when put into the context of the murdered lawyer's widow or the parents of murdered Tak Bai victims or the the siblings of drug war massacred suspects, being called "man" or "ai" doesn't seem so severe...

but still... reading your full version will be interesting.

*edit*... as for re-emerged flaming and questioning credibility, I agree it should stop... 2 warnings is more than enough.

Edited March 31, 2006 by sriracha john

[lukamar]

LOL ... Coly ... yes I can speak and read Thai. Not my fault that you do not understand Isaan/Lao dialect ... nor if you misunderstand the usage of Ai and Ee.

i can assure you - this sort of language will not make you friends there.

And regarding the use of "Ai" and "Ee", what do you try to tell me, that these forms of adress are proper forms of adress in polite conversation? LOL!

Well guys so we don't start a fight again, I ask my wife, who speaks Central, Northern and Isaan.

The term is very derogatory in Northern and Isaan. For example, Khun JS is polite, Ai JS is very much the opposite. The use of Ai or Ee is very insulting and would NEVER be used outside your immediate circle of friends. If you used it in say a bar for instance in the north in reference to someone that you do not know WELL it would be the same as asking them "Are you from Lao?" and you would probably get the same answer.

[jdinasia]

[dan10400]

interesting thread.

i can see colpyats point regarding the language. the use of rude language is probably unnecessary, and can detract from the main points in the message. if the song is to be used as a tool to educate those who are not tuned in to what has been going on, then this type of lanuage will be a detraction as most will either outright ignore the message or sympathize with Thaksin, et al. some topics regarding the daughter and son, true or not, would have best been avoided.

conversely, if this song is meant for fun among current PAD activists - probably OK. i can't imagine the songwriter using honorific language in that case either way.

it does seem like a bit of lost opportunity to educate those sitting on the fence due to lack of prior involvement into what has been going on around them.

[lukamar]

conversely, if this song is meant for fun among current PAD activists - probably OK. i can't imagine the songwriter using honorific language in that case either way.

There is a Thai saying "Walls have ears, doors have eyes". When they find out who the songwriter is he will be poorer than an Isaan rice farmer in a drought, because one way or another eventually the secret will be spilled.

[ColPyat]

but still... reading your full version will be interesting.

*edit*... as for re-emerged flaming and questioning credibility, I agree it should stop... 2 warnings is more than enough.

Sorry, not from me. That would take me forever as it is almost impossible to properly do justice to the nuances in the forms of adress etc that are almost impossible to translate into English. Apart from the difficulties of translating from a non-native language into another non-native language.

I only pointed out that this song was using extremely rude language, and therefore defamatory and inflaming, and not aimed at educating villagers. Nothing else.

I have no problem with the facts the song presented, because, as i have many times pointed out - i am no friend of Thaksin.

But thanks for stopping to question my credibility.

[ColPyat]

wow ... off again with the flaming ... better re-read my post Coly.

You admit you don't know Isaan/Lao dialect ... but .....

Reread the original post re:ai Ee ... and the follow-up too ....

is it late where you are?

Yes, it was late in Bangkok when i made the post. If you don't believe me that i am in Bangkok you can ask the moderators to do an IP check from where i am posting. As i am not using a proxy it should be rather easy for them to reconfirm my location.

And regarding the usage of "Ai" and "Ee", i believe it has been suffently proven already that this is not part of polite Thai language. Or do you still want to tell us that "Ai" and "Ee" are accetable forms of adress in central Thai, the language of this song?

Edited April 1, 2006 by ColPyat

[Plus]

Ai and Ee are perfectly acceptable when making rude jokes about others. Yes, the people on the end of the joke will be offended, and yes, if you address anyone you don't know directly, they will be offended. But in a satirical song? Give us a break. How do you tolerate all those f-words in Hollywood movies?

Thaksin used "ai" to describe his critic in front of reporters about a year ago.

As for his supporters searching for songwriters to avenge for calling him "ai na liam" - it's unbelievable to consider it seriously. No one cares about him that much.

[Plus]

Oh yes, and the song didn't address his daughter, or Sudarat as "ee".

And it was Thaksin who brought his kids out in the open and made them a fair game.

[ColPyat]

Ai and Ee are perfectly acceptable when making rude jokes about others. Yes, the people on the end of the joke will be offended, and yes, if you address anyone you don't know directly, they will be offended. But in a satirical song? Give us a break. How do you tolerate all those f-words in Hollywood movies?

Thaksin used "ai" to describe his critic in front of reporters about a year ago.

As for his supporters searching for songwriters to avenge for calling him "ai na liam" - it's unbelievable to consider it seriously. No one cares about him that much.

I don't think you understand what i am saying.

The question is NOT what i tolerate, i personally could not care less how anyone titles Thaksin, neither do i care about the f-word in Hollywood movies.

Do you get it - I DON'T <deleted> CARE! IT'S NOT ABOUT ME!

What i pointed out how the language of the song is received by the audience that many posters here claim to be "educated" about Thaksin by this song. And they will be offended. And yes, these people do care that much about him. They will be offended by the rude insults against his family, they will be offended by the countless expletitives.

Thai language sensibilities in their own cultural context are very different from the use of the f-word in modern western society. It is not comparable. Nevertheless, using the f-word in a formal western setting would exclude you rather quick from the guest list.

It is besides the point what Thaksin used to describe his opponents, the point being is that this song will infuriate his supporters, has breached defamatory laws, and is going to further escalation of the present situation. Point.

But to repeat it again to make it absolutely clear: I am not offended. I don't care. I am not a Thaksin supporter.

[Plus]

Sorry, Copyat, I used "you" as a general reader, not you personally.

There are very few people in Thailand who will be genuinely offended by simply hearing Thaksin called "ai na liam" in this song.

And Thaksin supporters won't do anything for him unless fed and paid and given a free ride.

I don't expect riots because he was called "ai", does anyone?

[lukamar]

There are very few people in Thailand who will be genuinely offended by simply hearing Thaksin called "ai na liam" in this song.

My wife was offended by it and she's on your side of the fence. Now if she's offended by the remarks about his family, you can bet a lot of upcountry people are as well, you just don't talk badly about someones family. It's like smutting out some guys mama in Los Angeles, it's just not done.

Edited April 1, 2006 by lukamar

[ColPyat]

Sorry, Copyat, I used "you" as a general reader, not you personally.

There are very few people in Thailand who will be genuinely offended by simply hearing Thaksin called "ai na liam" in this song.

And Thaksin supporters won't do anything for him unless fed and paid and given a free ride.

I don't expect riots because he was called "ai", does anyone?

Sorry, i misunderstood you.

It's not just the "Ai Na Liam" that is going to offend Thaksin supporters, but the barrage of gutter Thai used in connection with their idol, and especially the personal harsh insults against his family. In Thai culture insulting your opponent's family is considered as low as you can go, and in direct confrontations will inevitably lead to often extreme violence. This will not directly lead to rioting, but it is another step towards escalation in an anyhow loaded situation.

And i am afraid that you underestimate the level of support and admiration Thaksin enjoys under his supporters. They do not idolise him just because they are "fed and paid and given a free ride". You may get that impression if The Nation, the PAD and certain partisan boardmembers here are your only source of information. But i would advise you to stay for some time in a village in one of Thaksin's strongholds, or visit the Caravan of the Poor in order to get a more realistic picture.

[Siripon]

Sorry, Copyat, I used "you" as a general reader, not you personally.

There are very few people in Thailand who will be genuinely offended by simply hearing Thaksin called "ai na liam" in this song.

And Thaksin supporters won't do anything for him unless fed and paid and given a free ride.

I don't expect riots because he was called "ai", does anyone?

Sorry, i misunderstood you.

It's not just the "Ai Na Liam" that is going to offend Thaksin supporters, but the barrage of gutter Thai used in connection with their idol, and especially the personal harsh insults against his family. In Thai culture insulting your opponent's family is considered as low as you can go, and in direct confrontations will inevitably lead to often extreme violence. This will not directly lead to rioting, but it is another step towards escalation in an anyhow loaded situation.

And i am afraid that you underestimate the level of support and admiration Thaksin enjoys under his supporters. They do not idolise him just because they are "fed and paid and given a free ride". You may get that impression if The Nation, the PAD and certain partisan boardmembers here are your only source of information. But i would advise you to stay for some time in a village in one of Thaksin's strongholds, or visit the Caravan of the Poor in order to get a more realistic picture.

Colonel, the barrage of gutter Thai consists of- ai- not serious, man[him]- very common usage, dtai ha, chip hai, hia- stronger, but still very common. Ka-ree is strong meaning slut but in the context it's obviously a figure of speech.

Don't forget upcountry people are far more earthy than middle class Bangkokians, if you stand around Issan farmers discussing their livestock you will routinely hear the 'h' word used openly by both men and women to describe the vaginas of their cattle, pigs and even fellow villagers!

The language will not horrify them.

Your point about attacking his children- the background.

Pantongtae had to leave Thammasart University, he couldn't pass the exams, so he went to Ramkhamhaeng, the open university. In his last exam, a multiple choice I believe, he was found to be in possession of a piece of paper in his top pocket. His father called it 'a misunderstanding' and he passed. Any other student would have been suspended for a year with a loss of credits.

One reason Thaksin was so hard line in the drugs war is supposed to be because of his son's dabblings. Pantongtae has also won contracts with his company,'How Come', ie the advertising for the underground lines and stations. He's not just an innocent child.

Regarding the youngest daughter,Oong Ing, I genuinely feel sorry for her, she's probably been pushed by others. The scandal last year involved a man called Woratep, who under the guise of claiming he needed to open the entrance exam papers to check they were OK, removed them from the office for some time, this was unprecented. Maybe enough time to photocopy them and pass them on?

There was an enquiry but nothing happened and just recently he was promoted by Thaksin.

But still unable to enter an English programme at Chulalongkon, ie she couldn't pass the exam,Oong Ing was accepted on a Thai one but apparently her grades were poor, usually the grades are displayed on a board, but apparently her mother demanded they were removed quickly. I'm not even sure she sat the end of term exams.

That's why the kids are referred to in the song.

[hammered]

Sorry, Copyat, I used "you" as a general reader, not you personally.

There are very few people in Thailand who will be genuinely offended by simply hearing Thaksin called "ai na liam" in this song.

And Thaksin supporters won't do anything for him unless fed and paid and given a free ride.

I don't expect riots because he was called "ai", does anyone?

Sorry, i misunderstood you.

It's not just the "Ai Na Liam" that is going to offend Thaksin supporters, but the barrage of gutter Thai used in connection with their idol, and especially the personal harsh insults against his family. In Thai culture insulting your opponent's family is considered as low as you can go, and in direct confrontations will inevitably lead to often extreme violence. This will not directly lead to rioting, but it is another step towards escalation in an anyhow loaded situation.

And i am afraid that you underestimate the level of support and admiration Thaksin enjoys under his supporters. They do not idolise him just because they are "fed and paid and given a free ride". You may get that impression if The Nation, the PAD and certain partisan boardmembers here are your only source of information. But i would advise you to stay for some time in a village in one of Thaksin's strongholds, or visit the Caravan of the Poor in order to get a more realistic picture.

I've spent a lot of time in a village in one of his super heartlands. Nobody seemed that worried what anyone said about Thaksin, and my wife is always insulting if this name is mentioned. They had farming to do and enjoyed their spare time eating, joking, discussing farming issues and local gossip. When criticism of Thaksin came up they were more interested in knowing why he wasnt liked than defending him.

By the way I have heard my fair share of low Thai in the villages I have been to. To use some of the terms on the families of those living there would be tantamount to suicide, but to use it on national politicians.... very different.

The suggestion of spending time in a village is a good one for any foreigner who wants to understand more about Thailand, but to spend time with an organized group like the caravan of the poor is probably a lot less worthwhile.

[Thaible]

Sheesh, it's just a song. George Bush gets it 10x worse, and he's the leader of the free world.

Thailand is simply learning what it's like to live in a democracy.

You will always have opposition, and they will always demonstrate. France, the US, and the Philipines still have bigger, more violent demonstrations. They will disappear after the real will of the people is expressed through an election.

After an election, the opposition will always complain the election was fixed. Even in the US, which has the strictest election system in the world, the last 2 losers complained about rigged elections. But again, these people will disappear over time since people will tire of them.

[ColPyat]

Colonel, the barrage of gutter Thai consists of- ai- not serious, man[him]- very common usage, dtai ha, chip hai, hia- stronger, but still very common. Ka-ree is strong meaning slut but in the context it's obviously a figure of speech.

Don't forget upcountry people are far more earthy than middle class Bangkokians, if you stand around Issan farmers discussing their livestock you will routinely hear the 'h' word used openly by both men and women to describe the vaginas of their cattle, pigs and even fellow villagers!

The language will not horrify them.

Your point about attacking his children- the background.

I know that most of the points brought up in the song are most possibly true, including Panthongthae's alleged use of drugs. If you ever have the chance to see him in person, you will get the impression that he is a complete dork.

I do know as well that the words such as "Karee", "Hia", etc, the usage of "Gu", "Mueng", "Man", "Ai", "Ee" and whatever are part of colloquial Thai, especially in the viallges. I have decribed Thaksin in conversations with my wife with a few even more colorful labels.

Nevertheless, especially in village Thailand people do not attach those labels and forms of adress to people of far higher status, especially when they idolise that person. This form of language is used for conversations under themselves. On the rare occasions when these folks speak with people of far higher social rank they try their best to use the politest form of Thai they can come up with. Which often is not much, but it's the effort that counts. Manners are also in the village a serious matter.

They may often not be able to speak the more educated form of Thai, but they do understand when gutter Thai is used on purpose. Village folks may not be very educated, but they are as much or little stupid as anybody else.

Some practical examples:

A bit more than a year ago i got nearly into a fistfight during a heated debate about Thaksin with one of his more enthusiastic supporters here in Bangkok. To describe Thaksin i have used "Man", and the "Hia" slipped in as well. That was not appreciated by my opponent.

Two years ago, in the village, a couple of TRT members got into a debate with me on our land. Things heated up, certain language borders started to crumble. When one of the brothers started "cleaning" his gun, those TRT folks went straight back to politely discussing the merits of Thaksin.

These two incidents were long before things got so heated. In the present situation, i do take special care that i use during political discussions with supporters of both sides only 'pasa suphab'.

Edited April 1, 2006 by ColPyat

[ColPyat]

The suggestion of spending time in a village is a good one for any foreigner who wants to understand more about Thailand, but to spend time with an organized group like the caravan of the poor is probably a lot less worthwhile.

What you can learn in the Caravan of the Poor is how deep emotions here run. It is worthwhile to learn with what a potential social time bomb we are dealing here with.

[GoodHeart]

And is the song supposed to be offensive? Of course!

Then again ... are the scandals mentioned real? Of Course!

No one forced Thaksin into using his family to avoid the laws involving control and investment in Business .... that was his choice.

Scandals yet to be proven - all matter of opinion I might add.

Song is in poor taste and thats obvious, one thing to attack Thaskin but pretty low class attacking one's family.

ROTFLMAO Yet to be proven? A matter of opinion?

Your three postings here just confirmed my suspicions, BritMaveric: you're beyond daft.

How can you be so naive? Or is that a byproduct of your reading the Pattaya Mail regularly?

So that New Years trip Thaksin took to Singarpore really was a holiday, then! <guffaw> But, if Thaksin didn't negotiate the sale of Shin who did? Why it must have been the son. Such a clever well educated lad.

This idiocy on your part is the scarriest factor here. Compounded by your penchant for posting on forums such as these and the very relevance of expat forums looms on my horizon.

If we don't have an 'ignore this poster' feature, well, the time is upon us....

[sriracha john]

conversely, if this song is meant for fun among current PAD activists - probably OK. i can't imagine the songwriter using honorific language in that case either way.

There is a Thai saying "Walls have ears, doors have eyes". When they find out who the songwriter is he will be poorer than an Isaan rice farmer in a drought, because one way or another eventually the secret will be spilled.

Nevermind poor, he'll turn up like others that have spoken out against the government like lawyer Somchai.... he'll turn up dead....

.... over a song....

[britmaveric]

Goodheart - ahhh we are making progress it seems, no worries your lack of understanding is obvious to everyone. Relax - you seem rather stressed out. As for proven - its all pretty much allegations and suppositions it may be true and maybe not. Thaskin yet to be found guilty of anything - that is undebateable - why is another question.

[sriracha john]

Sorry, Copyat, I used "you" as a general reader, not you personally.

There are very few people in Thailand who will be genuinely offended by simply hearing Thaksin called "ai na liam" in this song.

And Thaksin supporters won't do anything for him unless fed and paid and given a free ride.

I don't expect riots because he was called "ai", does anyone?

Sorry, i misunderstood you.

It's not just the "Ai Na Liam" that is going to offend Thaksin supporters, but the barrage of gutter Thai used in connection with their idol, and especially the personal harsh insults against his family. In Thai culture insulting your opponent's family is considered as low as you can go, and in direct confrontations will inevitably lead to often extreme violence. This will not directly lead to rioting, but it is another step towards escalation in an anyhow loaded situation.

And i am afraid that you underestimate the level of support and admiration Thaksin enjoys under his supporters. They do not idolise him just because they are "fed and paid and given a free ride". You may get that impression if The Nation, the PAD and certain partisan boardmembers here are your only source of information. But i would advise you to stay for some time in a village in one of Thaksin's strongholds, or visit the Caravan of the Poor in order to get a more realistic picture.

Colonel, the barrage of gutter Thai consists of- ai- not serious, man[him]- very common usage, dtai ha, chip hai, hia- stronger, but still very common. Ka-ree is strong meaning slut but in the context it's obviously a figure of speech.

Don't forget upcountry people are far more earthy than middle class Bangkokians, if you stand around Issan farmers discussing their livestock you will routinely hear the 'h' word used openly by both men and women to describe the vaginas of their cattle, pigs and even fellow villagers!

The language will not horrify them.

Your point about attacking his children- the background.

Pantongtae had to leave Thammasart University, he couldn't pass the exams, so he went to Ramkhamhaeng, the open university. In his last exam, a multiple choice I believe, he was found to be in possession of a piece of paper in his top pocket. His father called it 'a misunderstanding' and he passed. Any other student would have been suspended for a year with a loss of credits.

One reason Thaksin was so hard line in the drugs war is supposed to be because of his son's dabblings. Pantongtae has also won contracts with his company,'How Come', ie the advertising for the underground lines and stations. He's not just an innocent child.

Regarding the youngest daughter,Oong Ing, I genuinely feel sorry for her, she's probably been pushed by others. The scandal last year involved a man called Woratep, who under the guise of claiming he needed to open the entrance exam papers to check they were OK, removed them from the office for some time, this was unprecented. Maybe enough time to photocopy them and pass them on?

There was an enquiry but nothing happened and just recently he was promoted by Thaksin.

But still unable to enter an English programme at Chulalongkon, ie she couldn't pass the exam,Oong Ing was accepted on a Thai one but apparently her grades were poor, usually the grades are displayed on a board, but apparently her mother demanded they were removed quickly. I'm not even sure she sat the end of term exams.

That's why the kids are referred to in the song.

Good history, Plus... and just to clarify, these children are not babies... nor even teens... Oak is 27, although I'll give anyone the credit for saying they certainly don't have the maturity level of someone much more than 12.

[massein]

Sorry, Copyat, I used "you" as a general reader, not you personally.

There are very few people in Thailand who will be genuinely offended by simply hearing Thaksin called "ai na liam" in this song.

And Thaksin supporters won't do anything for him unless fed and paid and given a free ride.

I don't expect riots because he was called "ai", does anyone?

Sorry, i misunderstood you.

It's not just the "Ai Na Liam" that is going to offend Thaksin supporters, but the barrage of gutter Thai used in connection with their idol, and especially the personal harsh insults against his family. In Thai culture insulting your opponent's family is considered as low as you can go, and in direct confrontations will inevitably lead to often extreme violence. This will not directly lead to rioting, but it is another step towards escalation in an anyhow loaded situation.

And i am afraid that you underestimate the level of support and admiration Thaksin enjoys under his supporters. They do not idolise him just because they are "fed and paid and given a free ride". You may get that impression if The Nation, the PAD and certain partisan boardmembers here are your only source of information. But i would advise you to stay for some time in a village in one of Thaksin's strongholds, or visit the Caravan of the Poor in order to get a more realistic picture.

Colonel, the barrage of gutter Thai consists of- ai- not serious, man[him]- very common usage, dtai ha, chip hai, hia- stronger, but still very common. Ka-ree is strong meaning slut but in the context it's obviously a figure of speech.

Don't forget upcountry people are far more earthy than middle class Bangkokians, if you stand around Issan farmers discussing their livestock you will routinely hear the 'h' word used openly by both men and women to describe the vaginas of their cattle, pigs and even fellow villagers!

The language will not horrify them.

Your point about attacking his children- the background.

Pantongtae had to leave Thammasart University, he couldn't pass the exams, so he went to Ramkhamhaeng, the open university. In his last exam, a multiple choice I believe, he was found to be in possession of a piece of paper in his top pocket. His father called it 'a misunderstanding' and he passed. Any other student would have been suspended for a year with a loss of credits.

One reason Thaksin was so hard line in the drugs war is supposed to be because of his son's dabblings. Pantongtae has also won contracts with his company,'How Come', ie the advertising for the underground lines and stations. He's not just an innocent child.

Regarding the youngest daughter,Oong Ing, I genuinely feel sorry for her, she's probably been pushed by others. The scandal last year involved a man called Woratep, who under the guise of claiming he needed to open the entrance exam papers to check they were OK, removed them from the office for some time, this was unprecented. Maybe enough time to photocopy them and pass them on?

There was an enquiry but nothing happened and just recently he was promoted by Thaksin.

But still unable to enter an English programme at Chulalongkon, ie she couldn't pass the exam,Oong Ing was accepted on a Thai one but apparently her grades were poor, usually the grades are displayed on a board, but apparently her mother demanded they were removed quickly. I'm not even sure she sat the end of term exams.

That's why the kids are referred to in the song.

Good history, Plus... and just to clarify, these children are not babies... nor even teens... Oak is 27, although I'll give anyone the credit for saying they certainly don't have the maturity level of someone much more than 12.

Is this the same daughter fliping burger at mickey D's a years or 2 back, and how long did that last

[sriracha john]

Goodheart - ahhh we are making progress it seems, no worries your lack of understanding is obvious to everyone. Relax - you seem rather stressed out. As for proven - its all pretty much allegations and suppositions it may be true and maybe not. Thaskin yet to be found guilty of anything - that is undebateable - why is another question.

True, only his son Oak has been found guilty as the controller of a multi-billion baht international corporate empire... all without the knowledge, assistance, or cooperation of his totally uninvolved, clean-as-a-whistle father.

[sriracha john]

Sorry, Copyat, I used "you" as a general reader, not you personally.

There are very few people in Thailand who will be genuinely offended by simply hearing Thaksin called "ai na liam" in this song.

And Thaksin supporters won't do anything for him unless fed and paid and given a free ride.

I don't expect riots because he was called "ai", does anyone?

Sorry, i misunderstood you.

It's not just the "Ai Na Liam" that is going to offend Thaksin supporters, but the barrage of gutter Thai used in connection with their idol, and especially the personal harsh insults against his family. In Thai culture insulting your opponent's family is considered as low as you can go, and in direct confrontations will inevitably lead to often extreme violence. This will not directly lead to rioting, but it is another step towards escalation in an anyhow loaded situation.

And i am afraid that you underestimate the level of support and admiration Thaksin enjoys under his supporters. They do not idolise him just because they are "fed and paid and given a free ride". You may get that impression if The Nation, the PAD and certain partisan boardmembers here are your only source of information. But i would advise you to stay for some time in a village in one of Thaksin's strongholds, or visit the Caravan of the Poor in order to get a more realistic picture.

Colonel, the barrage of gutter Thai consists of- ai- not serious, man[him]- very common usage, dtai ha, chip hai, hia- stronger, but still very common. Ka-ree is strong meaning slut but in the context it's obviously a figure of speech.

Don't forget upcountry people are far more earthy than middle class Bangkokians, if you stand around Issan farmers discussing their livestock you will routinely hear the 'h' word used openly by both men and women to describe the vaginas of their cattle, pigs and even fellow villagers!

The language will not horrify them.

Your point about attacking his children- the background.

Pantongtae had to leave Thammasart University, he couldn't pass the exams, so he went to Ramkhamhaeng, the open university. In his last exam, a multiple choice I believe, he was found to be in possession of a piece of paper in his top pocket. His father called it 'a misunderstanding' and he passed. Any other student would have been suspended for a year with a loss of credits.

One reason Thaksin was so hard line in the drugs war is supposed to be because of his son's dabblings. Pantongtae has also won contracts with his company,'How Come', ie the advertising for the underground lines and stations. He's not just an innocent child.

Regarding the youngest daughter,Oong Ing, I genuinely feel sorry for her, she's probably been pushed by others. The scandal last year involved a man called Woratep, who under the guise of claiming he needed to open the entrance exam papers to check they were OK, removed them from the office for some time, this was unprecented. Maybe enough time to photocopy them and pass them on?

There was an enquiry but nothing happened and just recently he was promoted by Thaksin.

But still unable to enter an English programme at Chulalongkon, ie she couldn't pass the exam,Oong Ing was accepted on a Thai one but apparently her grades were poor, usually the grades are displayed on a board, but apparently her mother demanded they were removed quickly. I'm not even sure she sat the end of term exams.

That's why the kids are referred to in the song.

Good history, Plus... and just to clarify, these children are not babies... nor even teens... Oak is 27, although I'll give anyone the credit for saying they certainly don't have the maturity level of someone much more than 12.

Is this the same daughter fliping burger at mickey D's a years or 2 back, and how long did that last

No, Oak is his son. The daughter worked her publicity-seeking, propaganda-generating, photo-op-creating job at McDonald's for under 30 days.

[jdinasia]

There are very few people in Thailand who will be genuinely offended by simply hearing Thaksin called "ai na liam" in this song.

My wife was offended by it and she's on your side of the fence. Now if she's offended by the remarks about his family, you can bet a lot of upcountry people are as well, you just don't talk badly about someones family. It's like smutting out some guys mama in Los Angeles, it's just not done.

[jdinasia]

I know that most of the points brought up in the song are most possibly true, including Panthongthae's alleged use of drugs. If you ever have the chance to see him in person, you will get the impression that he is a complete dork.

wow! The Secret Service .... Then the Leaders of PAD ..... Now one of Thaksin's children ..... is there ANYONE you don't hang out with Coly?

I do know as well that the words such as "Karee", "Hia", etc, the usage of "Gu", "Mueng", "Man", "Ai", "Ee" and whatever are part of colloquial Thai, especially in the viallges. I have decribed Thaksin in conversations with my wife with a few even more colorful labels.

hmmmmmm If the person writing the song ... with the viewpoint of a person from Ai Naa Liam's power base ... didn't consider the person being parodied as Phu Yai ......

[ColPyat]

wow! The Secret Service .... Then the Leaders of PAD ..... Now one of Thaksin's children ..... is there ANYONE you don't hang out with Coly?

You stretch my patience, son, but again - i said "seen in person" - not "hung out with". In English that means what it means: seen, as in having been closed enough to be in clear visible range, but not conversed with, or in any other way interacted with.

If i would have done that, i might have said: "Conversed with...", or "Had a chat with...", or "Spoke to..". Which did not, therefore i have not used any term that could indicate any more than that i have seen Panthongtae in person close enough for a long enough period in order to think that he is a complete dork.

And before we get into any other pissing contest, i have been in close physical vicinity with many people, and have even had the chance to interact with many of them. Some of them are indeed well known persons.

Even if it is difficult for you to imagine that this sort of thing exists - but some people have professions that bring them into contact with well known people, or people otherwise difficult to approach.

Is that clear enough for you, or do we need to get into a deep and meaningful discussion on English syntax and the definition of particular terms, or whatever else itches you? Which i would prefer not to as i am not your &lt;deleted&gt; Ann Landers.

Edited April 1, 2006 by ColPyat

[jdinasia]

hmmmmm I am IMPRESSED! ;-)

[ColPyat]

hmmmmm I am IMPRESSED! ;-)

No, you aren't.

You are just are just another cynic desperately trying to be facetious. Which here in Thailand are a dime a dozen.

But don't worry, i forgive you.