' Square-faced Man' A New Hit Song

[sriracha john]

Sorry, not from me. That would take me forever as it is almost impossible to properly do justice to the nuances in the forms of adress etc that are almost impossible to translate into English. Apart from the difficulties of translating from a non-native language into another non-native language.

Is that clear enough for you, or do we need to get into a deep and meaningful discussion on English syntax and the definition of particular terms

Even if it is difficult for you to imagine that this sort of thing exists - but some people have professions that bring them into contact with well known people, or people otherwise difficult to approach.

There's a whole new thread with a poll in there...

[Siripon]

I like the lines in the song referring to longkon fruit, in Thai it's called lamyai- this scandal involves 50,000 tonnes of longkon, the fruit of the north,Thaksin's heartland, which was subsidised by the government.

The only trouble was the above mentioned amount was found to be missing when the warehouses were checked, so who got all those lovely subsidies for nothing?

The next part of the song talks about seedlings, they mean rubber,because before the election last year some TRT MPs, against the law, promised rubber seedlings to their constituents prior to the election;even though these seedlings had not been checked by the relevant officials for quality.

This is serious because it takes a rubber tree 7 years before it starts producing rubber, so if the farmers have been given poor quality seedlings they're going to waste a lot of time and energy for nothing.

[ColPyat]

Sorry, not from me. That would take me forever as it is almost impossible to properly do justice to the nuances in the forms of adress etc that are almost impossible to translate into English. Apart from the difficulties of translating from a non-native language into another non-native language.

Is that clear enough for you, or do we need to get into a deep and meaningful discussion on English syntax and the definition of particular terms

Even if it is difficult for you to imagine that this sort of thing exists - but some people have professions that bring them into contact with well known people, or people otherwise difficult to approach.

There's a whole new thread with a poll in there...

I thought we have agreed to stop the constant bickering. What use is your post other than getting into another infantile pissing contest?

If you can't respond to me in a reasonable way suitable for adults, simply shut up, back off, and stop stalking me!

[Plus]

Colpyat, please relax. Some of your claims (if not all ) are difficult to believe.

Jdinasia and SJ, he might really have met all those people. I don't know, imagine if he's a photojournalist - it would be his job to hang around famous people and mix with the crowd that passes around a large amount of rumors and "insider" information, and first hand see the "secret service" in action, and perhaps even have tea with them behind the stage (they don't drink anything stronger on the job, I suppose).

He might be that guy with a videocamera Bulmercke described in another thread. There's a picture there as well.

Is that you, Colonel Pyat? If so you don't look like a colonel. Perhaps you are not a photojournalist, perhaps you are someone's bodyguard.

Anyway, let's keep personal insults out of this.

Everyone here argues pro or anti Thaksin's positions while Colpyat argues anti PAD which sometimes confuses people.

[jdinasia]

self-edited ....

It really does belong in a general supposition thread in Bedlam .... not on topic here!

Edited April 1, 2006 by jdinasia

[sriracha john]

Colpyat, please relax. Some of your claims (if not all ) are difficult to believe.

Jdinasia and SJ, he might really have met all those people. I don't know, imagine if he's a photojournalist - it would be his job to hang around famous people and mix with the crowd that passes around a large amount of rumors and "insider" information, and first hand see the "secret service" in action, and perhaps even have tea with them behind the stage (they don't drink anything stronger on the job, I suppose).

He might be that guy with a videocamera Bulmercke described in another thread. There's a picture there as well.

Is that you, Colonel Pyat? If so you don't look like a colonel. Perhaps you are not a photojournalist, perhaps you are someone's bodyguard.

Anyway, let's keep personal insults out of this.

Everyone here argues pro or anti Thaksin's positions while Colpyat argues anti PAD which sometimes confuses people.

I agree, Plus.. I'm not sure why he felt so put off. My post wasn't a flame, but sure was met by a flaming response from him... Oh well, so be it... some people have a short fuse...

Can't recall anyone so new generating so much turmoil in thaivisa.

I also thank you for proffering suggestions of possible responses to the poll.

[britmaveric]

Just remember everyone has a view point here and there is no right/wrong answer. In the end this is an interesting and lively discussion with no room for personal attacks.

[Plus]

There's no right/wrong answer only if you don't understand the question.

[ColPyat]

Is that you, Colonel Pyat? If so you don't look like a colonel.

Thanks for the reasonable post.

I am not a Colonel, the handle is just a hommage to a one of the great writers of our time, and the tragi-comical anti-hero of his greatest work in 4 novels, of which the last installment for which the world has been waiting more than a decade i just read when i registered.

I am not a bodyguard either.

[ColPyat]

flaming response from him... Oh well, so be it... some people have a short fuse...

Some people have a short fuse after they were called dishonest, which so far has not been retracted.

[britmaveric]

There's no right/wrong answer only if you don't understand the question.

Words you should heed!!!

[Pink Mist]

I don't understand the issues here exactly so won't be drawn into that debate, but what I see here is a thread that would be more suited to bedlam.

Lets keep to the subject and stop the bickering

[Pieman]

Just musing about the pseudo righteous who are complaining that the "square faced man" is insulting, claiming that people in Issarn are offended. Now, as I understand it, Thailand is a democracy and Thaksin is a politician, so I thought so I thought I'd have a look for a few quotations about politicians originating in other democracies (with one exception) and compare. Most of these quotes are about politicians in general but with a little imagination............

Under every stone lurks a politician.

Aristophanes (450 BC - 388 BC), Thesmophoriazusae, 410 B.C.

You have all the characteristics of a popular politician: a horrible voice, bad breeding, and a vulgar manner.

Aristophanes (450 BC - 388 BC), Knights, 424 B.C.

Now I know what a statesman is; he's a dead politician. We need more statesmen.

Bob Edwards

Get all the fools on your side and you can be elected to anything.

Frank Dane

The reason there are so few female politicians is that it is too much trouble to put makeup on two faces.

Maureen Murphy

Politicians are the same all over. They promise to build a bridge even where there is no river.

Nikita Khrushchev (1894 - 1971)

I once said cynically of a politician, 'He'll doublecross that bridge when he comes to it.'

Oscar Levant (1906 - 1972)

An honest politician is one who, when he is bought, will stay bought.

Simon Cameron (1799 - 1889)

[ColPyat]

Just musing about the pseudo righteous who are complaining that the "square faced man" is insulting, claiming that people in Issarn are offended.

And therefore we can deduct that politicians are tossers.

I wonder though what the quotes from notable people of the past have anything whatsoever to do with how people in rural Thailand perceive the rude language of the song "Ai Na Liam".

Hmmm,...maybe you should go and explain those folks that they should not be offended and that they should better heed the advise of Aristophanes & Co.

Bring a few copies of Cicero's writings around as well, that might help them to comprehend the true values of the Republic and moral conduct in politics in order to better understand the misdeeds of the man they swore their allegiance to.

[Pieman]

Hmmm,...maybe you should go and explain those folks that they should not be offended and that they should better heed the advise of Aristophanes & Co.

Bring a few copies of Cicero's writings around as well, that might help them to comprehend the true values of the Republic and moral conduct in politics in order to better understand the misdeeds of the man they swore their allegiance to.

Good idea...........I'm on it!

[hammered]

Just musing about the pseudo righteous who are complaining that the "square faced man" is insulting, claiming that people in Issarn are offended.

And therefore we can deduct that politicians are tossers.

I wonder though what the quotes from notable people of the past have anything whatsoever to do with how people in rural Thailand perceive the rude language of the song "Ai Na Liam".

Hmmm,...maybe you should go and explain those folks that they should not be offended and that they should better heed the advise of Aristophanes & Co.

Bring a few copies of Cicero's writings around as well, that might help them to comprehend the true values of the Republic and moral conduct in politics in order to better understand the misdeeds of the man they swore their allegiance to.

It will be intersting to see how many copies of the CD and how many ringtones of it make there way back to the isolated rural backwaters when the sons and daughters of the farmers head back to vote from the factories of Bangkok, Ayuthaya annd the Eastern Seaboard. This young group of up-country workers has been one of the main groups supporting the rallies.

[ColPyat]

Good idea...........I'm on it!

God - i might soon walk into the village and hear people quoting the classics!

Wouldn't that be the day!

A Thailand i can go into the opera and classical concerts amidst people from all social backgrounds, discussing literature with strangers, that truly would make life perfect here!

Edited April 2, 2006 by ColPyat

[hammered]

Good idea...........I'm on it!

God - i might soon walk into the village and hear people quoting the classics!

Wouldn't that be the day!

A Thailand i can go into the opera and classical concerts amidst people from all social backgrounds, discussing literature with strangers, that truly would make life perfect here!

Dont think anybody is going to disagree with the opera comment!

[ColPyat]

It will be intersting to see how many copies of the CD and how many ringtones of it make there way back to the isolated rural backwaters when the sons and daughters of the farmers head back to vote from the factories of Bangkok, Ayuthaya annd the Eastern Seaboard. This young group of up-country workers has been one of the main groups supporting the rallies.

I would seriously doubt that statement.

How on earth can those daughters and sons of the farmers find the time or energy to be "a main group supporting the rallies" when they regularly have to work 16 hour double shifts 6, often even 7 days a week in order to make it beyond their base salary of often less than 6000 baht a month for the 8 hour shift?

Their priorities are saving enough money so they can get out of the rat race within as few years possible in order to get back home with as little physical damage as they can manage. Their little free time is taken up with eating, sleeping the few hours they can. Their days off are reserved for side jobs, or going and having the little bit of fun they can afford in the karaoke closest to their overcrowded quarters.

I fear that demonstrating is rather low on their list of priorities in the present hel_l they find themselves.

[ColPyat]

Dont think anybody is going to disagree with the opera comment!

I wouldn't hope so!

Opera and classical concerts are the only things i truly miss in Thailand. The few shitty perfomances that are done here i don't go as the snobs attending destroy the experience for me.

[hammered]

It will be intersting to see how many copies of the CD and how many ringtones of it make there way back to the isolated rural backwaters when the sons and daughters of the farmers head back to vote from the factories of Bangkok, Ayuthaya annd the Eastern Seaboard. This young group of up-country workers has been one of the main groups supporting the rallies.

I would seriously doubt that statement.

How on earth can those daughters and sons of the farmers find the time or energy to be "a main group supporting the rallies" when they regularly have to work 16 hour double shifts 6, often even 7 days a week in order to make it beyond their base salary of often less than 6000 baht a month for the 8 hour shift?

Their priorities are saving enough money so they can get out of the rat race within as few years possible in order to get back home with as little physical damage as they can manage. Their little free time is taken up with eating, sleeping the few hours they can. Their days off are reserved for side jobs, or going and having the little bit of fun they can afford in the karaoke closest to their overcrowded quarters.

I fear that demonstrating is rather low on their list of priorities in the present hel_l they find themselves.

Many farmers certainly from the north of Thailand (and I think to some degree for the Isaan although I have less knowledge of this area) have tried to get their kids an education, so they can have a better life than their aprents. This has meant kids with college diplomas, vocational quals and in some cases even degrees. Lots of these have slightly or much better jobs than you suggest, certainly higher salaries and more than one day off a week. It is easy to attend a rally, and dont forget there is free food and free entertainment. It is a myth that all the kids of farmers are uneducated and unemployable. There are labor shortages right now for people with the requisite skills. The group I mentioned above is a group involved in the big day rallies. I am not claiming that those who failed to finish high school and who are effectively construction site slave labor have time to attend rallies.

[ColPyat]

Many farmers certainly from the north of Thailand (and I think to some degree for the Isaan although I have less knowledge of this area) have tried to get their kids an education, so they can have a better life than their aprents. This has meant kids with college diplomas, vocational quals and in some cases even degrees. Lots of these have slightly or much better jobs than you suggest, certainly higher salaries and more than one day off a week. It is easy to attend a rally, and dont forget there is free food and free entertainment. It is a myth that all the kids of farmers are uneducated and unemployable. There are labor shortages right now for people with the requisite skills. The group I mentioned above is a group involved in the big day rallies. I am not claiming that those who failed to finish high school and who are effectively construction site slave labor have time to attend rallies.

Having a bit more than a passing knowledge on the subject of industrial suburbs, factories and villagers working in them, and their living conditions, i can assure you that the ones from village backgrounds with degrees and diplomas in better positions are existing indeed, but are a tiny, almost neglegible, minority of people employed there in those factories.

[hammered]

Many farmers certainly from the north of Thailand (and I think to some degree for the Isaan although I have less knowledge of this area) have tried to get their kids an education, so they can have a better life than their aprents. This has meant kids with college diplomas, vocational quals and in some cases even degrees. Lots of these have slightly or much better jobs than you suggest, certainly higher salaries and more than one day off a week. It is easy to attend a rally, and dont forget there is free food and free entertainment. It is a myth that all the kids of farmers are uneducated and unemployable. There are labor shortages right now for people with the requisite skills. The group I mentioned above is a group involved in the big day rallies. I am not claiming that those who failed to finish high school and who are effectively construction site slave labor have time to attend rallies.

Having a bit more than a passing knowledge on the subject of industrial suburbs, factories and villagers working in them, and their living conditions, i can assure you that the ones from village backgrounds with degrees and diplomas in better positions are existing indeed, but are a tiny, almost neglegible, minority of people employed there in those factories.

Take a trip round the residential areas of the eastern seaboard, ayuthaya or eastern bangkok that cater for these people. Ask people where they come from and what they do. You will find there has been an up country influx. Certainly more than a negligible minority. Look at the ages of the people. ask if they want to go back to be farmers. It is an eye opener.

Now as to who attends rallies. I do not go but my wife has gone to all thbig days on her own. She gets to talk to many people. Some she has met are Bangkok middle class, but there ae more who are not and there are many from scattered provinces from small villages. These are obviously not an up country majority but they are vehemantly anti-Thaksin and are well into the song. When they go back home why wouldnt some CDs or ring tones go with them? Oh and by the way this group apparently is the rudest in its description of the PM not just sticking to "ai" and "ee" but dragging up far worse descriptors.

Personally I think that to use a stereotypical generalization of up country Thai folk is wrong. They are a lot more complicated than that.

[ColPyat]

Take a trip round the residential areas of the eastern seaboard, ayuthaya or eastern bangkok that cater for these people. Ask people where they come from and what they do. You will find there has been an up country influx. Certainly more than a negligible minority. Look at the ages of the people. ask if they want to go back to be farmers. It is an eye opener.

Now as to who attends rallies. I do not go but my wife has gone to all thbig days on her own. She gets to talk to many people. Some she has met are Bangkok middle class, but there ae more who are not and there are many from scattered provinces from small villages. These are obviously not an up country majority but they are vehemantly anti-Thaksin and are well into the song. When they go back home why wouldnt some CDs or ring tones go with them? Oh and by the way this group apparently is the rudest in its description of the PM not just sticking to "ai" and "ee" but dragging up far worse descriptors.

Personally I think that to use a stereotypical generalization of up country Thai folk is wrong. They are a lot more complicated than that.

Well, take a trip around the adjoining slums, dormitories, lowest cost overcrowded apartment buildings and similar estates, look how many people live in absolutely cramped conditions, and tell me again who is in the numerical majority - the guys with the diplomas, or the simple shift worker?

These villagers you talk about in the rallies are mostly oranised by allied NGOs, and yes, they are as vehemently anti Thaksin as the Caravan of the Poor are vehemently pro Thaksin.

The last thing i would want to see though is those two groups of opposing villagers meeting each other, as there would be many dead on both sides. I have seen people of those backgrounds kill each other here for far less insults.

Additionally, i dare say that compared to the majority of villagers from the north and north east the PAD supporters under the rural poor are a tiny minority. I may reconsider my statement if today's elections show a different result in those areas. This should be rather easy to judge according to voter turn out (compared to the last elections) and percentage of "No" votes.

[hammered]

Take a trip round the residential areas of the eastern seaboard, ayuthaya or eastern bangkok that cater for these people. Ask people where they come from and what they do. You will find there has been an up country influx. Certainly more than a negligible minority. Look at the ages of the people. ask if they want to go back to be farmers. It is an eye opener.

Now as to who attends rallies. I do not go but my wife has gone to all thbig days on her own. She gets to talk to many people. Some she has met are Bangkok middle class, but there ae more who are not and there are many from scattered provinces from small villages. These are obviously not an up country majority but they are vehemantly anti-Thaksin and are well into the song. When they go back home why wouldnt some CDs or ring tones go with them? Oh and by the way this group apparently is the rudest in its description of the PM not just sticking to "ai" and "ee" but dragging up far worse descriptors.

Personally I think that to use a stereotypical generalization of up country Thai folk is wrong. They are a lot more complicated than that.

Well, take a trip around the adjoining slums, dormitories, lowest cost overcrowded apartment buildings and similar estates, look how many people live in absolutely cramped conditions, and tell me again who is in the numerical majority - the guys with the diplomas, or the simple shift worker?

These villagers you talk about in the rallies are mostly oranised by allied NGOs, and yes, they are as vehemently anti Thaksin as the Caravan of the Poor are vehemently pro Thaksin.

The last thing i would want to see though is those two groups of opposing villagers meeting each other, as there would be many dead on both sides. I have seen people of those backgrounds kill each other here for far less insults.

Additionally, i dare say that compared to the majority of villagers from the north and north east the PAD supporters under the rural poor are a tiny minority. I may reconsider my statement if today's elections show a different result in those areas. This should be rather easy to judge according to voter turn out (compared to the last elections) and percentage of "No" votes.

Of course the people I talk of are a minority of up country, but that still doesnt mean they dont take their opinions and CDs etc back with them. In fact they are probably part of a young developing urban working or middle class even if their house papers currently remain up country.

Sure I know of the slums. Infact some of my wifes huge extended family are located in them. Funnily enough the ones in the slums and flats dont like Thaksin either, but maybe that is just her family.

Of course TRT are going to sweep the north and isaan. I will be more interested to see what happens in the south and just hope that it will not result in violence down there. It would be bizarre having MPs who dare not visit their constituency. This could conceivably happen in contested southern constituencies with TRT MPs elected on tiny votes. A bit of a tinderbox.

[ColPyat]

Of course the people I talk of are a minority of up country, but that still doesnt mean they dont take their opinions and CDs etc back with them. In fact they are probably part of a young developing urban working or middle class even if their house papers currently remain up country.

Sure I know of the slums. Infact some of my wifes huge extended family are located in them. Funnily enough the ones in the slums and flats dont like Thaksin either, but maybe that is just her family.

Of course TRT are going to sweep the north and isaan. I will be more interested to see what happens in the south and just hope that it will not result in violence down there. It would be bizarre having MPs who dare not visit their constituency. This could conceivably happen in contested southern constituencies with TRT MPs elected on tiny votes. A bit of a tinderbox.

Well, my wife and her immediate family don't like Thaksin either. I case of her immediate family it might have to do more though with the fact that they are shitscared of her temper than any real political conviction either way.

As to the situation in the South. Yes, i agree, that could easily happen, and that is one of the reasons i would have preferred the Democrats to run. I am terrified of a violent fall out of the mess, and more social fractions in this land of anyhow huge social tensions. More terrified than of a few more years of Thaksin.

[hammered]

Of course the people I talk of are a minority of up country, but that still doesnt mean they dont take their opinions and CDs etc back with them. In fact they are probably part of a young developing urban working or middle class even if their house papers currently remain up country.

Sure I know of the slums. Infact some of my wifes huge extended family are located in them. Funnily enough the ones in the slums and flats dont like Thaksin either, but maybe that is just her family.

Of course TRT are going to sweep the north and isaan. I will be more interested to see what happens in the south and just hope that it will not result in violence down there. It would be bizarre having MPs who dare not visit their constituency. This could conceivably happen in contested southern constituencies with TRT MPs elected on tiny votes. A bit of a tinderbox.

Well, my wife and her immediate family don't like Thaksin either. I case of her immediate family it might have to do more though with the fact that they are shitscared of her temper than any real political conviction either way.

As to the situation in the South. Yes, i agree, that could easily happen, and that is one of the reasons i would have preferred the Democrats to run. I am terrified of a violent fall out of the mess, and more social fractions in this land of anyhow huge social tensions. More terrified than of a few more years of Thaksin.

To be honest I feel that it has already all gone too far and that the divisions in the country will take a long time to heal. What happens in the coming week could be critical. What will happen I wouldnt even want to predict. It could be messy.

I enjoy the excahnge of views etc, by the way.

[ColPyat]

I enjoy the excahnge of views etc, by the way.

So do I.

[TAWP]

Ironic that ColPyat in one thread complains that not every up-north election-booth is run the same and telling epople to stop extrapolate this into the whole north and stop generalizing...and then goes on a rampage in 'defence' for the north and it's sensitive cultural heritage (ears?), wich btw is a broad generalization.

The definition of hipocrite.

[jdinasia]

Take a trip round the residential areas of the eastern seaboard, ayuthaya or eastern bangkok that cater for these people. Ask people where they come from and what they do. You will find there has been an up country influx. Certainly more than a negligible minority. Look at the ages of the people. ask if they want to go back to be farmers. It is an eye opener.

Now as to who attends rallies. I do not go but my wife has gone to all thbig days on her own. She gets to talk to many people. Some she has met are Bangkok middle class, but there ae more who are not and there are many from scattered provinces from small villages. These are obviously not an up country majority but they are vehemantly anti-Thaksin and are well into the song. When they go back home why wouldnt some CDs or ring tones go with them? Oh and by the way this group apparently is the rudest in its description of the PM not just sticking to "ai" and "ee" but dragging up far worse descriptors.

Personally I think that to use a stereotypical generalization of up country Thai folk is wrong. They are a lot more complicated than that.

Well, take a trip around the adjoining slums, dormitories, lowest cost overcrowded apartment buildings and similar estates, look how many people live in absolutely cramped conditions, and tell me again who is in the numerical majority - the guys with the diplomas, or the simple shift worker?

These villagers you talk about in the rallies are mostly oranised by allied NGOs, and yes, they are as vehemently anti Thaksin as the Caravan of the Poor are vehemently pro Thaksin.

The last thing i would want to see though is those two groups of opposing villagers meeting each other, as there would be many dead on both sides. I have seen people of those backgrounds kill each other here for far less insults.

Additionally, i dare say that compared to the majority of villagers from the north and north east the PAD supporters under the rural poor are a tiny minority. I may reconsider my statement if today's elections show a different result in those areas. This should be rather easy to judge according to voter turn out (compared to the last elections) and percentage of "No" votes.

oi