The Word 'farang"

[tuky]

takes us back to previous posting on this thread...what if your friends and family call you falang when they know your name?

do they love you??? 

Does it happen?

If it really does, I pity the farang you're talking about,...

My family and my wifes family talk about me BEING farang, but they use my name when they are talking TO me. I have no problem being referred to as farang, but it sure isn't my name.

My wife is Thai, I am Farang.

Our baby is Luk Krung, put us together and we have a loving family.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

And stick to it Tuky....good upon you

[sabaijai]

mrmnp, I think you cut to the heart of the matter. With all naming, if there is a negative connotation to the status, then any term used to name that status is in danger of being perceived as negative. You can never escape that cycle, as even the terms 'wear out' their political correctness as fast as you can make them up.

Thus in the USA, 'darkie' changed to 'negro', often mispronounced with another word considered more foul in some way. 'Negro' came to be seen as negative, so then it was 'black' (and proud), but after awhile that didn't wash so well so it became Afro-American. Somewhere along the line that had to be amended to African-American. I'm sure there will be another term before too long. As long as being black in the USA is perceived as a negative - by blacks themselves or by whites - the naming will remain problematic.

Another example is the way English-speakers have cycled through crippled --> handicapped --> disabled -- mobility impaired. This physical status is negatively perceived, and thus any name recognising the condition risks being perceived negatively.

Now we come to farang. Is the status of being a white person in Thailand a negative thing? I figure if you yourself see being white in Thailand as a negative, you will always think that the term 'farang' is negative. I happen to agree with mrmnp, that it's generally a positive, and so the term doesn't bother me in the least.

Don't forget, sticks & stones ...

farang & proud

[meadish_sweetball]

I have a university education in Thai. My thai teacher holds a Masters of Linguistics, speaks more or less fluent English and Swedish, and has been teaching Thai to "khon sa-weden" = Swedes, for 12 years.

The first time I came to Thailand, I actually listened to the expats I met, thinking that they would be able to give me insights into Thai culture. The problem is, 90% of their preudices and theories proved to be BS on close inspection, no basis in facts, no interest in trying to find out the facts.

As was suggested earlier, ask your Thai friends, or, if you live here and don't have any Thai friends, start questioning why you are here in the first place.

You will all find out that 'farang' means

white caucasian

. Its etymology is totally beside the point for this context, the point is how THAI people use the word in everyday speech.

His Majesty's speech was made on our behalf, and must have been a bit confusing to Thai people who are not well-educated.

Using "chaaw taang chaat" is more formal and polite, but unlike 'farang', this word actually means 'foreigner (person different country', (although when used instead of 'farang' will mean caucasian - 'farang').

Instead "khon/chaaw tawan tok" which literally means "Westerner (person sun go down)" would be the correct word to use to end up with the same meaning as '´farang'. The Japanese, Chinese, Malay, Burmese, Cambodians, all people of African origin, Middle Eastern/Indian, and distinctly aboriginal peoples from anywhere else in the world are NOT farang to a Thai.

Most upcountry Thais use 'farang' as a simple way of describing you, for reference. There is no linguistic debate resembling the "negro/nigger/black" debate in the West regarding the word 'farang'.

Please don't confuse what you THINK the word means with what Thai people actually mean when they use it.

Look at the context, and if you are that sensitive about it, patiently explain why you don't like them to use it.

If you haven't asked Thai people properly how they use it, don't try to confront them with your own (or your mates') explanations of the word, because these are in 99% of cases downright wrong.

That said, in tourist places like Samui, Phuket, Pattaya, Hua Hin and nowadays Samet and Ko Chang as well, Thais will use words from Thai when speaking English to tourists, sometimes differently, because of the way that the farang in these places think Thai works.

It is called 'contact language' in linguistics. In Samui when I was there, many Thais would call the bathroom and to urinate "ching chong" - which was the way the drunk Johns, Joeys and Gerhards would refer to it. It has nothing to do with Thai.

Just as little as I let a 60-year old recently arrived Iraqi immigrant to Sweden make up his own definitions of words in the language I have been speaking since I was born, would I expect Thais to conform to your own neurosis about how they use Thai.

If you are so proud to be polite, well-educated Westerners or some vague feeling you might have. If it is a feeling, describe it as such.

As for throwing something on the floor, even if it gets the desired effect, in this culture, which you have chosen to live in, that is close to spitting in someone's face. You're lucky you were in Pattaya and not in some place where they are less used to tourists.

[meadish_sweetball]

Sorry for the posting such a long and negative message. Anyway, the next-to-last paragraph should have read

If you are so proud to be polite, well-educated Westerners, please try to base your postings on facts, not your own unverified interpretations or ideas, or some vague feeling you might have. If it is a feeling, describe it as such.

Cheers.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Sorry for the posting such a long and negative message. Anyway, the next-to-last paragraph should have read

If you are so proud to be polite, well-educated Westerners, please try to base your postings on facts, not your own unverified interpretations or ideas, or some vague feeling you might have. If it is a feeling, describe it as such.

Cheers.

More good upon you Mr Sweetball......

[markt]

Which one do you guys prefer?

to be called "Khun XXX" politely but deep inside them you're just the walking ATM, or to be called "farang" but with love & respect?

do they love you???

Yes, I say it with confidence!

Does this mean that if they're polite/call you by your name, they see you as a walking ATM, but if they can't even remember/prononce your name this is because they love you ?

[tutsiwarrior]

mr meatball...although I abhor anti-intellectualism as a Nobel Laureate...I base my observations on an certain empathy, ie. if I was a thai in the West on an extended stay with my falang wife and her family would I like it much if I knew that I was continually being referred to as 'the thai' or 'our asian friend' when my one syllable thai nickname was known by all. I think not.

Thais are not long on empathy as I found when this week in Song Phi Nong there was a plane crash (small military trainer aircraft...pilot killed and some people on the ground severly injured) and my wife came to report the news with laughter. Something to laugh about?

Got to see it as laughing at other persons' misfortunes on one hand and losing face on the other, I guess

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Tutsi I heard that the laughter was to cover up the sadness felt. You see similar reactions from Thai at the scene of a fatal accident.

[kwiz117]

You guys are only concerned about the word Farang..

Can anyone tell me what does the word 'Kirek" means? They use to call this for off-white people like me. ( I do not call myself Black..he he he)

Also the word "Jeg" or something like that. They use that for Chinese looking people.

One of my Thai friends said that the word "farang" has started to differentiate the foreigners from sexpats. I do not believe it. But who knows?

BTW, any word that we have to call Thai People? That would be fun..

[the gentleman]

Hi Kwiz, they call Indian (long termers/citizens), who own a business?, Naiharn )like the place in Phuket called Nai Harn - it is supposed to mean "owner of the shop" or something of that nature.............

Farangs are also called pungs as this is the southern way of saying it.

Is there any other name for farangs in the North?

[boNita aPPlebuM]

This turns out to be a very popular topic

It's cool to see so many comments ... interesting ones to ...

Remember ...

WORDS are like BARKS

They don't BITE, unless you let them

[Axel]

....Got to see it as laughing at other persons' misfortunes on one hand and losing face on the other, I guess...

Tutsi, get used to it, it is not negative, it is to cover an embarassment.

First time I heard it when a close friend looked absolutely horror stricken, I mean so much that even I realized something was wrong. Questioning him, he told me he drove hist car and hit somebody. Even the police confirmed it was none of his doing.

When I asked him what happened to the guy he hit, he said: "I think he died, ha ha ha". I was shocked, but now let's face it, it is psycholocally a way to cover your 'face'.

[tutsiwarrior]

yeah...I hear what you and dr PP are saying...the inscrutability of Asians that manifests itself is many ways.

Some years ago when I was working in Indonesia I got the word that my dad was on his deathbed and had to return to the US quickly. The company guy in charge of visas, travel arrangements and etc was a kindly old man who I admired and I was shocked when I related the story to him and he began to laugh. Just shook my head.

My wife describes me to others as a man of good heart presumably because I get emotional from time to time. The mysteries of the Orient...

[et33.com]

i have no problem with that

just like if in china

the western will be called ""ang moh""

in hongkong it's called ""kwai loh""

and a other thousand names

don't the americans call one of their own people ""black"" or ""blackie""

who cares...

as long as they don't get physical

else i become a crazy hulk

[meemiathai]

Actually the word "kwai lo" in HK was initially meant to be derogatory long time ago. But nowadays it has gradually become the word used to refer to westerners usually without being derogatory.

It can still hide antagonism but that depends on the person who is saying it.

So the word "farang" in thai is actually different.

ps: for boys the word is "kwai chai" and girls the word is "kwai mui"

"kwai" actually means "ghost" in chinese.

[meemiathai]

For a farang lady the word is "kwai por"

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Actually the word "kwai lo" in HK was initially meant to be derogatory long time ago. But nowadays it has gradually become the word used to refer to westerners usually without being derogatory.

It can still hide antagonism but that depends on the person who is saying it.

So the word "farang" in thai is actually different.

ps: for boys the word is "kwai chai" and girls the word is "kwai mui"

"kwai" actually means "ghost" in chinese.

And westerners called the Chinese chinks, then the Vietnamese became slopes, we are all capable of using derogatory terminology.

[drbones666]

For a farang lady the word is "kwai por"

Actually it's gui-pah. I had a couple of chinese punk kids following me once saying, "Gui-low gui-low gui-low" I turned around, grabbed their cokes, dumped them over their heads and bitch-slapped them.

It's an insult people. Don't take it.

[chonabot]

For a farang lady the word is "kwai por"

Actually it's gui-pah. I had a couple of chinese punk kids following me once saying, "Gui-low gui-low gui-low" I turned around, grabbed their cokes, dumped them over their heads and bitch-slapped them.

It's an insult people. Don't take it.

You must be a scary chap then.....

[meemiathai]

It's an insult people.  Don't take it.

Thanks for the tuition.

Well, after 30+ years of speaking the language (cantonese), I still need.....

Shame on me!

[megashox]

...I turned around, grabbed their cokes, dumped them over their heads and bitch-slapped them...

That's when they stripped you to your bones then!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Ole Bones sounds a bit like a football 'ooligan. A real toff

[mango head]

Call me anything you want,just don't call me late for dinner. actually,the only problem I have being a farang in the land of smiles is during songkran. I almost drown because everybody wants to splash water on the farang.

[megashox]

I heard that the word "farang" isn't even an original Thai word, but just a borrowed (& modified) from Persian or Arabic. When, separated into two parts "fa - rang" could actually have some meaning in Thai = "Butt Plug".

[Sandy]

I myself cant say that i understand and know how it feels to be called farang. But i think that if people mis-use the word and it starts sounding a little disrespectful, then it is wrong. But the person who is being called "farang" is the one to say, if u mind or not. Let that person know that u would rather be called something else. You are the one who is holding the cards, let it be known what u want to hear and not hear.

[meemiathai]

But the person who is being called "farang" is the one to say, if u mind or not.

I don't agree. It is their language. You can't change other people's language just because you don't like it, can you? And as I have said, the word farang is not of derogatory meaning.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Even an expert linguist has attested that the word is NOT offensive in any way.

[Bluecat]

Farang being a word you use to define a person, as we said before, depending on the context, it can be offensive or not,...

So, probably, we will never agree on whether it is offensive or not because it can be both,...

[tutsiwarrior]

I dunno...still something about 'fukc you falang' that's irritating...how about 'fukc you amelika'...or 'fukc you angliss'...instead? At least when I retort 'Thai, I fukc your mother' it is more PC than 'slant, slope, chink..etc, etc'

it is quite terrible...small children in the street and evil giggling teenagers on the phone...I find myself holed up like Robert Carlyle in the fantasy sequence in 'The Island' opening fire on anything that moves with heavy ordnance screaming 'I'll give you falang where it hurts cckscker!!!...'

tutsi is not mad...only wants to entertain...(heh heh heh...)