Concrete Spec For Outside Living Area

[Mike45]

I'm having a new home built. I have asked them to give me 1 meter of concrete around the house and a 6 X 13 meter area behind the house that will also have a roof. This area is for a covered outside living area and kitchen.

They are asking me how thick I want the concrete.

I know nothing about the correct thickness of concrete or spec for a project like this.

What should I request?

Thanks

[Mike45]

One more thing. They are asking me what kind of tiles I want placed on top of the concrete.

Slippery or non slippery.

Can't I make the decision about the tiles later when I visit Thailand for the 50% payment or do they install the tikes at the same time they pour the concrete.?

[pigeonjake]

you want at least 4" but with hardcore underit too, about 2",

the tiles i personaly have got none slip as you will get some rain drive in from the sides, and you dont want to be slipping about,

you will need sleel net in the concreat too, and dont let them pour it all at once at the size your talking i would think expantion joints would be needed, but again this is thailand,

we have just finnished our house, i did double block to exterier wall to cut down on the heat of the sun, 2 blocks with a 1" gap between them, just like you would in the uk, single block interior walls,and its worked very good, keeps the house cooler,

hope this helps jake

[Kalapana]

Does anyone see finished concrete in Thailand, or just tile? (Broom Finish or stained, etc)

[TexasRanger]

I have smoothed concrete on the floor in my gym, very easy to keep clean and seems cool to the touch. The more times you clean it the better it looks. Did try having mats down originally but it actually looks better without.

[keeniau96]

You will need the soil packed down then pour the concrete in sections with expansion joints about 1-1.5 meters spacing. 4" thick should be adequate for the sidewalk but 6" would be better for the patio area. Need steel mesh in the concrete, raised above the soil surface so can be properly embedded into the concrete. Tiles outside will be very dangerous in the wet season. Leave that project for when you arrive and can pick proper non-skid outdoor tiles.

[moench]

Ok ,you just finnish with building your house. First -the ground around your house will sinking at lest 5 cm in the next year, your concrete will crack,if you cutt or use exp,joint ,the floor is not more flat. I would use interlock .so you cane adjust every time and easy to clean and no slipping .

[Pib]

You better also asking them about sinking 2-3M in length concrete piles underneath that concrete pad to prevent/minimize sinking after a year or so. While pouring a concrete pad 4-6" thick with loose gravel/packed earth underneath works fine in most western nations and the pad won't sink because the earth is not that wet, this is the topics where the ground is wet/mushy year round in most Thailand locations...that's why a well built house has approx. 20M piles under its foundation. Yea, yea, the ground can appear bone dry on the top, but you dig down a few feet (or less) and it starts getting damp/mushy.

My house is in Bangkok and I just finished having some additional concrete pad laid around my parts of my house and the installer automatically included/installed 2M concrete piles spaced about a meter apart. Wire mess was used in the concrete on top of a few inches of sand...all of this on top of the concrete piles. And my neighbor durn near had his entire yard laid with concrete with tile and once again the installer used 2-3M concrete piles. Go with non-slip tiles or you will regret it once you almost or do slip and break a bone...the tiles can be installed just a day or so after the concrete is poured. I had tile laid a few days after laying a concrete pad approx. 5 years ago and no tiles or the grout cracked (this pad had concrete piles also). And with my most recent concrete pad and the neighbors pad, tile was laid a few days after the concrete was poured.

[noise]

All very good inputs. I would say go with the 6 inches of concrete. But I would also recommend a good layer of sand on top of the base. Get that down first as it will help dampen the effects of settling. And make sure the sand is compacted first. If nothing else, wet it down and let it sit (and set) for a couple of days.

I would insist on ready mixed concrete even if it may cost you a little more so that you will be assured the "pour" is of consistent quality. Do not allow hand mixed batches as each batch will create a weak point where it meets the other batches.

And with pre-mixed, you can get all your concrete poured in one day.

And have someone there to witness the laying of the reinforcing mesh. Even though I told my contractor before he started, he still just laid it on top of the sand like he does on every other job. I made him raise it up and continue to ease it up as the pour was done. If I had not, the concrete would have just pushed most of it back down on the sand.

As everyone said, NON-SLIP tiles after the concrete has set

[Baboy]

You better also asking them about sinking 2-3M in length concrete piles underneath that concrete pad to prevent/minimize sinking after a year or so. While pouring a concrete pad 4-6" thick with loose gravel/packed earth underneath works fine in most western nations and the pad won't sink because the earth is not that wet, this is the topics where the ground is wet/mushy year round in most Thailand locations...that's why a well built house has approx. 20M piles under its foundation. Yea, yea, the ground can appear bone dry on the top, but you dig down a few feet (or less) and it starts getting damp/mushy.

My house is in Bangkok and I just finished having some additional concrete pad laid around my parts of my house and the installer automatically included/installed 2M concrete piles spaced about a meter apart. Wire mess was used in the concrete on top of a few inches of sand...all of this on top of the concrete piles. And my neighbor durn near had his entire yard laid with concrete with tile and once again the installer used 2-3M concrete piles. Go with non-slip tiles or you will regret it once you almost or do slip and break a bone...the tiles can be installed just a day or so after the concrete is poured. I had tile laid a few days after laying a concrete pad approx. 5 years ago and no tiles or the grout cracked (this pad had concrete piles also). And with my most recent concrete pad and the neighbors pad, tile was laid a few days after the concrete was poured.

Non slip tiles outdoors a must IMO. If you are in an area where stamped concrete is available you may also want to look into this. Can be added after main pad is laid. Some nice designs available, not everyones taste but I put it around the back of my place.

[David48]

I'm a little bemused by some of the posts above.

The OP is asking about what thickness he should put a 1 metre wide concrete skirt around his house, plus a larger pad for an outside area.

Both jobs are requiring completely different building specs.

As for the concrete skirt, assuming that it's a pathway, 100mm with steel reinforcing and expansion joints would sufficient.

As for the much larger pad for the kitchen etc. It all depends on the quality and consistency of the soil and sub-soils.

If it's being built in the Bangkok area ... yes ... 15 - 20 metre piles or foundations are standard industry practise from what I've read.

If however, you are on solid undisturbed ground or rock ... maybe 2 metres for footings would be sufficient.

As for the thickness of the slab ... well, a lot does come down to the compression load.

Will you be parking cars on it? Now or in the future. What is the roof to be made of ... concrete tiles weight much more then sheeting.

What has the builder advise you to lay as a concrete thickness?

OH ... non-slip tiles really are a good idea as it's a wet area due to the fact that it's, in part, a kitchen ans that the structure will presumably not have walls, hence open to the elements.

.

[Mike45]

Many good responses. I appreciate the information.

[David48]

Many good responses. I appreciate the information.

Glad that you came back to the thread.

There are a hundred of these on the web.

This is one of the shorter ones which shoes the basics.

Not saying that you'll get this in Thailand ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqP1DDYt2Gk

[bifftastic]

If it's being built in the Bangkok area ... yes ... 15 - 20 metre piles or foundations are standard industry practise from what I've read.

Really? 20 metres? That's over 65 feet!

[Ackybang]

Hi Mike45 -

You need pilings if you're building on a swamp, or putting up a huge multi level building. On decent ground, your footings don't need to come up from any deeper than around a meter, with each footing being a square meter in area. Below that meter, you would want 10 cm of compacted sand, with a 10cm level concrete pour to take the footing's metal work, which should have at least a 20cm pour encasing it, before you start pouring the posts upto foundation beam pour.. On a non or minimal load bearing surface, on decent ground, you could come up from as little as 50cm, and pour foundation beams sitting on the ground, aslong as you're spreading the weight well.

I've built (still building) a 200 square bungalow - raised up off the ground using a cpac roof, with all full weight steel (roof around 25 tonnes total), cavity wall red brick, etc, etc - many many tonnes in total - hasn't subsided atall, or if it has, I certainly haven't noticed.. Mixed all the concrete myself also, with a mixer I bought, which will give you a higher steng rating than cpac, generally. An area 6x13 meters is easily dooable in a day by hand, with a couple of wheelbarrows, and some grunts hired in to schlep. Because I've built myself, I have had the luxury of being able to take my time with every step, so the build is very solid. Sourced and bought the best materials I could within my budget - never struck supports for beams before 14 days, and soaked all my pours everyday, to help with strength / curing. All my posts from below the ground up, I wrapped in clingfilm, and left for plenty of time...

My floors are 7 x 4mm steel strand 5cm concrete planks, (most Thai builders, and Army bunkers use 4) with a 7 cm pour over them (3mm steel mesh embedded half pour height), and then allow for 3-5cm more concrete for laying tiles (Thai standard). That is way more than enough, spec wise for a suspended, normal floor...

Is your house directly on the ground, or raised up ? Your house footings should all be dug at once, and the outside area's metal work / foundations all tied into the main body of the house, so it's all one piece. Your pathway at 10 cm is way more than sufficient, with steel mesh reinforcing, and an extra skim for tiling.. Here, they use 3mm steel mesh @ 15 x 15 cm for concrete pour road building, to give you an idea. A flat pour of 10 cm waterproofed concrete on such an area (6x13meters), before tiling, directly on solid ground with appropriate footings / metal work / foundation beams and a ring beam is highly unlikely to subside or crack. Having said that, take drainage and runoff into account for your build. I have seen a lot of cracking in builds here, but the builders tend to throw everything up very quickly, without waiting for natural settlement, or build on newly compacted soil, without digging down into the old for footings, or, if they're on a job including materials price, use the cheapest metal / materials they can find, and not tie stuff in together properly.

Really, surprised your builders are asking you what thickness of concrete you want. Are you paying just for labour, and sourcing materials yourself ? Surely you have some sort of structural / engineering plans for your build ? You might have to keep an eye on the builders, or pay a foreman to make sure they're doing a proper job, mate. In my experience here, I wouldn't turn my back for a minute if I was leaving builders to it on my money - they need some sort of trusted supervision.

Post your structural plans - would be helpful.

Good luck.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Ackybang

[David48]

Why do I think, when I read the above post that the member just wanted to tell us about HIS build?

Is the OP building a house - NO

A multi-Story house - Definately NO

Interested in what the Thai Army use in their bunkers - NO

Just a humble suggestion - Read the OP, and if you have something relevant to say then post.

Coffee time ...

.

[David48]

If it's being built in the Bangkok area ... yes ... 15 - 20 metre piles or foundations are standard industry practise from what I've read.

Really? 20 metres? That's over 65 feet!

The gf's Parents Farm is in the Bangkok area, below is a photo of one of their recently drained ponds ...

No rocks, no solid sub-soil strata ... pure clay ... meters deep.

The FarmHouse was built with wooden posts and they and the slab built around them, on one house corner, is slowly sinking. Windows don't close any more and the kitchen door won't open because it's sunk below the ground level.

Yes ... strange as it might sound 15 - 20 metre piles or foundations are regularly used. They drive in one pile and when that one disappears ... then drive the next one in on top.

Have a read of this ... BORED AND DRIVEN PILE TEST in Bangkok sub soils done by an Australian University. For commercial buildings they take the piles down to depths of 50 - 60 metres!

But this doesn't help the OP as he simply asked for the thickness of concrete he should pour ...

EDITED to add ... the Farmhouse was built by Thais maybe 20 years ago ... and the subsidence has only increased in recent years ...

.

Edited June 10, 2013 by David48

[Pib]

Hi Mike45 -

You need pilings if you're building on a swamp, or putting up a huge multi level building. On decent ground, your footings don't need to come up from any deeper than around a meter, with each footing being a square meter in area. Below that meter, you would want 10 cm of compacted sand, with a 10cm level concrete pour to take the footing's metal work, which should have at least a 20cm pour encasing it, before you start pouring the posts upto foundation beam pour.. On a non or minimal load bearing surface, on decent ground, you could come up from as little as 50cm, and pour foundation beams sitting on the ground, aslong as you're spreading the weight well.

I've built (still building) a 200 square bungalow - raised up off the ground using a cpac roof, with all full weight steel (roof around 25 tonnes total), cavity wall red brick, etc, etc - many many tonnes in total - hasn't subsided atall, or if it has, I certainly haven't noticed.. Mixed all the concrete myself also, with a mixer I bought, which will give you a higher steng rating than cpac, generally. An area 6x13 meters is easily dooable in a day by hand, with a couple of wheelbarrows, and some grunts hired in to schlep. Because I've built myself, I have had the luxury of being able to take my time with every step, so the build is very solid. Sourced and bought the best materials I could within my budget - never struck supports for beams before 14 days, and soaked all my pours everyday, to help with strength / curing. All my posts from below the ground up, I wrapped in clingfilm, and left for plenty of time...

My floors are 7 x 4mm steel strand 5cm concrete planks, (most Thai builders, and Army bunkers use 4) with a 7 cm pour over them (3mm steel mesh embedded half pour height), and then allow for 3-5cm more concrete for laying tiles (Thai standard). That is way more than enough, spec wise for a suspended, normal floor...

Is your house directly on the ground, or raised up ? Your house footings should all be dug at once, and the outside area's metal work / foundations all tied into the main body of the house, so it's all one piece. Your pathway at 10 cm is way more than sufficient, with steel mesh reinforcing, and an extra skim for tiling.. Here, they use 3mm steel mesh @ 15 x 15 cm for concrete pour road building, to give you an idea. A flat pour of 10 cm waterproofed concrete on such an area (6x13meters), before tiling, directly on solid ground with appropriate footings / metal work / foundation beams and a ring beam is highly unlikely to subside or crack. Having said that, take drainage and runoff into account for your build. I have seen a lot of cracking in builds here, but the builders tend to throw everything up very quickly, without waiting for natural settlement, or build on newly compacted soil, without digging down into the old for footings, or, if they're on a job including materials price, use the cheapest metal / materials they can find, and not tie stuff in together properly.

Really, surprised your builders are asking you what thickness of concrete you want. Are you paying just for labour, and sourcing materials yourself ? Surely you have some sort of structural / engineering plans for your build ? You might have to keep an eye on the builders, or pay a foreman to make sure they're doing a proper job, mate. In my experience here, I wouldn't turn my back for a minute if I was leaving builders to it on my money - they need some sort of trusted supervision.

Post your structural plans - would be helpful.

Good luck.

I sure hope your bungalow is not in the Bangkok or surrounding area as it will be tilted from uneven sinking within a year or so along with concrete slab/wall cracks. The land in this part of Thailand is pretty close to sea level and nothing more than wet clay. Standard practice for home foundations in Bangkok is to be laid on concrete pilings 15-20M deep. My home in western Bangkok is built on a thick concrete foundation supported by 17M piles...that what the developer in the moobaan uses for all the homes. And the concrete slabs/patios right around the house are built on concrete slabs around 4-6 inches thick supported by 2-3M piles. Now when walking around the moobaan you can see few houses that did follow-on work and laid pads around the house "without" supporting 2-3M piles and they now slant away from the house at a steep angle due to settling, are cracked, etc.....now the house foundation has not settled as it was built on 15-20M piles. Yea, the Bangkok and surrounding area looks like a bunch of oil rigs when home/building construction first starts at ...but they are not oil rigs but pile driving rigs.

[iancnx]

Is you house on posts raised up off the ground? If it is don't make the same mistake as me. I too asked for 1m of concrete around the footprint of the house. Ensure in your contract you stipulate that the floor should be level / slightly convex sloping outwards to ensure no pooling of water underneath. I realised all too late what the sub standard chaps did for me and I end up with pooling at 3 posts with possible subsistence issues in the future at the footings... More like a fish pond than a dry floor. My intention was always to finish with Sai Lang, so this has now been corrected ( 4cm error ) but at some considerable extra expense for the 200 sqm. If building is not raised on posts still stipulate the 1m slopes away from the footprint. Hope this help.... Good luck with the build.

[iancnx]

Is you house on posts raised up off the ground? If it is don't make the same mistake as me. I too asked for 1m of concrete around the footprint of the house. Ensure in your contract you stipulate that the floor should be level / slightly convex sloping outwards to ensure no pooling of water underneath. I realised all too late what the sub standard chaps did for me and I end up with pooling at 3 posts with possible subsistence issues in the future at the footings... More like a fish pond than a dry floor. My intention was always to finish with Sai Lang, so this has now been corrected ( 4cm error ) but at some considerable extra expense for the 200 sqm. If building is not raised on posts still stipulate the 1m slopes away from the footprint. Hope this help.... Good luck with the build.

I really recommend Sai Lang. This is brushed aggregate finished concrete and can be made in different colours yellows, browns, beige etc. it is the same non slip finish commonly used in swimming pool surrounds......also used a lot here in govt buildings and temples for finishing.

[Ackybang]

Why do I think, when I read the above post that the member just wanted to tell us about HIS build?

Is the OP building a house - NO

A multi-Story house - Definately NO

Interested in what the Thai Army use in their bunkers - NO

Just a humble suggestion - Read the OP, and if you have something relevant to say then post.

Coffee time ...

.

David48, in my humble opinion you're being rather obtuse. Who said you're in charge here, captain ? Narcissistic drivel without any weight, or weight bearing properties. God forbid they ever give you a badge and a whistle.

You may want to read what I wrote before you open your cake hole. Perhaps re-read what you yourself wrote also, seeing as you're obviously a master builder.

Is the OP having a house built,and therefore 'building a house' ? Yes.

Does he have much experience ? No.

Did he say where he's building ? No.

Did he describe the manner / design of his building ? No.

Did he say he wanted some advice / help ? Yes.

The list goes on and on, just for the perception - or am I reading it all wrong ?

Forums are about sharing and helping people, no ? So, rather than reading in a way that was quite clearly not intended, seeing as you are not the OP for starters - why not read and appreciate someones real experience and contribution that they've taken the time to post, instead of interjecting with dull witticism, and false presumption. Who's benefit is it for, exactly ?

Fair enough about the pilings if he's building in Bangers - like I said, used for a swamp generally..

My experiences and specs are to do with building on good, solid ground, which I already stated. Read what I wrote, and the information I shared - nothing about showboating my build - more to do with the load bearing characteristics of my build in relation to ground condition and depth / detail of my footings, and strength of my floors, relating to the thickness of them, aswell as other, potentially useful information - so get a grip would you.

My post comes from my own, personal ' hands on ' building experience, and not from watching someone else doing it whilst supping beer, and thinking I'm a trady.

As for thickness of the slab floor - what has the compression load, or load bearing characteristics of it got to do with the roof, or how would it have any bearing on it, in anything other than superficial terms ? The OP said it would be for an outside living / kitchen area. The compression load (which, depending on the build, the slab could be a part of) should be worked out, absorbed, and should be structurally accounted for primarily by the pillars, footings and foundation beams supporting brickwork, unless I'm mistaken. Bear in mind, I'm not a qualified structural engineer.. Coffee ? Sounds like you've been on the pop to me.

If you have any real knowledge from your own hands on experience and are therefore deliberately being disingenuous, then cast aside the facade and share in a good mannered way, by all means, instead of a 'maybe this' and 'maybe that' - I'm quite interested and willing to learn also from real professionals, with real hands on experience and knowledge, in an affable and open way, as I am to stand corrected - and not like an emoticon using, bull buggering degenerate.

Like I said, to the original OP - ie. not yourself - post up some drawings, and I would be happy to offer you any real advice from real experience where I can, if I can.

I wish you a good remainder of the day.

Time for a herbal tea......

[David48]

.

Really can't be bothered to reply to your post above.

If someone shows you up for being a light-weight, then so be it.

your opening post was ...

You need pilings if you're building on a swamp, or putting up a huge multi level building. On decent ground, your footings don't need to come up from any deeper than around a meter, with each footing being a square meter in area.

and ...

Is the OP having a house built,and therefore 'building a house' ? Yes.

Not exactly Einstein are you?

I'll leave it at that.

Enjoy.

[Ticketmaster]

You better also asking them about sinking 2-3M in length concrete piles underneath that concrete pad to prevent/minimize sinking after a year or so. While pouring a concrete pad 4-6" thick with loose gravel/packed earth underneath works fine in most western nations and the pad won't sink because the earth is not that wet, this is the topics where the ground is wet/mushy year round in most Thailand locations...that's why a well built house has approx. 20M piles under its foundation. Yea, yea, the ground can appear bone dry on the top, but you dig down a few feet (or less) and it starts getting damp/mushy.

My house is in Bangkok and I just finished having some additional concrete pad laid around my parts of my house and the installer automatically included/installed 2M concrete piles spaced about a meter apart. Wire mess was used in the concrete on top of a few inches of sand...all of this on top of the concrete piles. And my neighbor durn near had his entire yard laid with concrete with tile and once again the installer used 2-3M concrete piles. Go with non-slip tiles or you will regret it once you almost or do slip and break a bone...the tiles can be installed just a day or so after the concrete is poured. I had tile laid a few days after laying a concrete pad approx. 5 years ago and no tiles or the grout cracked (this pad had concrete piles also). And with my most recent concrete pad and the neighbors pad, tile was laid a few days after the concrete was poured.

Bangkok, of course, is a former swamp. You do not need piles everywhere. I live in a village in Phitsnalok that is on a "high" spot; probably an island in the former swamp of the Central Plain. It is impossible to drive piles where I live. They tried it for the water tank for the village water and they just broke. So whether you need piles depends entirely on where you are.

One thing about concrete. When concrete is poured, it should have a thick almost viscous, lava like consistency. If you put too much water in it, the finished product is weakened. EVERY Thai I have seen pouring concrete either does not know this or they simply do not give a shit. The thick viscous stuff is harder to work, so they add water to it until it has the consistency of a thin watery gray stone soup. They like to pour it and have it flow like water so they don't have to "work it." If you want the strongest possible slab, you MUST be present when they pour it and must not allow the addition of too much water. No matter what you say, if you are not there, they will water the <deleted> out of it.

[Ticketmaster]

Why do I think, when I read the above post that the member just wanted to tell us about HIS build?

Is the OP building a house - NO

A multi-Story house - Definately NO

Interested in what the Thai Army use in their bunkers - NO

Just a humble suggestion - Read the OP, and if you have something relevant to say then post.

Coffee time ...

.

David48, in my humble opinion you're being rather obtuse. Who said you're in charge here, captain ? Narcissistic drivel without any weight, or weight bearing properties. God forbid they ever give you a badge and a whistle.

You may want to read what I wrote before you open your cake hole. Perhaps re-read what you yourself wrote also, seeing as you're obviously a master builder.

Is the OP having a house built,and therefore 'building a house' ? Yes.

Does he have much experience ? No.

Did he say where he's building ? No.

Did he describe the manner / design of his building ? No.

Did he say he wanted some advice / help ? Yes.

The list goes on and on, just for the perception - or am I reading it all wrong ?

Forums are about sharing and helping people, no ? So, rather than reading in a way that was quite clearly not intended, seeing as you are not the OP for starters - why not read and appreciate someones real experience and contribution that they've taken the time to post, instead of interjecting with dull witticism, and false presumption. Who's benefit is it for, exactly ?

Fair enough about the pilings if he's building in Bangers - like I said, used for a swamp generally..

My experiences and specs are to do with building on good, solid ground, which I already stated. Read what I wrote, and the information I shared - nothing about showboating my build - more to do with the load bearing characteristics of my build in relation to ground condition and depth / detail of my footings, and strength of my floors, relating to the thickness of them, aswell as other, potentially useful information - so get a grip would you.

My post comes from my own, personal ' hands on ' building experience, and not from watching someone else doing it whilst supping beer, and thinking I'm a trady.

As for thickness of the slab floor - what has the compression load, or load bearing characteristics of it got to do with the roof, or how would it have any bearing on it, in anything other than superficial terms ? The OP said it would be for an outside living / kitchen area. The compression load (which, depending on the build, the slab could be a part of) should be worked out, absorbed, and should be structurally accounted for primarily by the pillars, footings and foundation beams supporting brickwork, unless I'm mistaken. Bear in mind, I'm not a qualified structural engineer.. Coffee ? Sounds like you've been on the pop to me.

If you have any real knowledge from your own hands on experience and are therefore deliberately being disingenuous, then cast aside the facade and share in a good mannered way, by all means, instead of a 'maybe this' and 'maybe that' - I'm quite interested and willing to learn also from real professionals, with real hands on experience and knowledge, in an affable and open way, as I am to stand corrected - and not like an emoticon using, bull buggering degenerate.

Like I said, to the original OP - ie. not yourself - post up some drawings, and I would be happy to offer you any real advice from real experience where I can, if I can.

I wish you a good remainder of the day.

Time for a herbal tea......

Why do I think, when I read the above post that the member just wanted to tell us about HIS build?

Is the OP building a house - NO

A multi-Story house - Definately NO

Interested in what the Thai Army use in their bunkers - NO

Just a humble suggestion - Read the OP, and if you have something relevant to say then post.

Coffee time ...

.

David48, in my humble opinion you're being rather obtuse. Who said you're in charge here, captain ? Narcissistic drivel without any weight, or weight bearing properties. God forbid they ever give you a badge and a whistle.

You may want to read what I wrote before you open your cake hole. Perhaps re-read what you yourself wrote also, seeing as you're obviously a master builder.

Is the OP having a house built,and therefore 'building a house' ? Yes.

Does he have much experience ? No.

Did he say where he's building ? No.

Did he describe the manner / design of his building ? No.

Did he say he wanted some advice / help ? Yes.

The list goes on and on, just for the perception - or am I reading it all wrong ?

Forums are about sharing and helping people, no ? So, rather than reading in a way that was quite clearly not intended, seeing as you are not the OP for starters - why not read and appreciate someones real experience and contribution that they've taken the time to post, instead of interjecting with dull witticism, and false presumption. Who's benefit is it for, exactly ?

Fair enough about the pilings if he's building in Bangers - like I said, used for a swamp generally..

My experiences and specs are to do with building on good, solid ground, which I already stated. Read what I wrote, and the information I shared - nothing about showboating my build - more to do with the load bearing characteristics of my build in relation to ground condition and depth / detail of my footings, and strength of my floors, relating to the thickness of them, aswell as other, potentially useful information - so get a grip would you.

My post comes from my own, personal ' hands on ' building experience, and not from watching someone else doing it whilst supping beer, and thinking I'm a trady.

As for thickness of the slab floor - what has the compression load, or load bearing characteristics of it got to do with the roof, or how would it have any bearing on it, in anything other than superficial terms ? The OP said it would be for an outside living / kitchen area. The compression load (which, depending on the build, the slab could be a part of) should be worked out, absorbed, and should be structurally accounted for primarily by the pillars, footings and foundation beams supporting brickwork, unless I'm mistaken. Bear in mind, I'm not a qualified structural engineer.. Coffee ? Sounds like you've been on the pop to me.

If you have any real knowledge from your own hands on experience and are therefore deliberately being disingenuous, then cast aside the facade and share in a good mannered way, by all means, instead of a 'maybe this' and 'maybe that' - I'm quite interested and willing to learn also from real professionals, with real hands on experience and knowledge, in an affable and open way, as I am to stand corrected - and not like an emoticon using, bull buggering degenerate.

Like I said, to the original OP - ie. not yourself - post up some drawings, and I would be happy to offer you any real advice from real experience where I can, if I can.

I wish you a good remainder of the day.

Time for a herbal tea......

Ackybang, you make one mistake in this post, you seem to have forgotten that: "You cannot argue with an idiot." People like David 48 should be ignored. It is obvious from his multiple posts that he has nothing to offer, but nothing better to do than criticize others.

Thank you for your very good and enlightening post about your house building project. I, too, am currently building a house. I have a contractor, but I am right there 24/7 monitoring everything and doing a lot of the work myself. I did all the plumbing simply because I felt that was the ONLY way I would get it right. I plan to do most of the electrical, though I am not there yet.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Ticketmaster

[Mike45]

Hi Mike45 -

You need pilings if you're building on a swamp, or putting up a huge multi level building. On decent ground, your footings don't need to come up from any deeper than around a meter, with each footing being a square meter in area. Below that meter, you would want 10 cm of compacted sand, with a 10cm level concrete pour to take the footing's metal work, which should have at least a 20cm pour encasing it, before you start pouring the posts upto foundation beam pour.. On a non or minimal load bearing surface, on decent ground, you could come up from as little as 50cm, and pour foundation beams sitting on the ground, aslong as you're spreading the weight well.

I've built (still building) a 200 square bungalow - raised up off the ground using a cpac roof, with all full weight steel (roof around 25 tonnes total), cavity wall red brick, etc, etc - many many tonnes in total - hasn't subsided atall, or if it has, I certainly haven't noticed.. Mixed all the concrete myself also, with a mixer I bought, which will give you a higher steng rating than cpac, generally. An area 6x13 meters is easily dooable in a day by hand, with a couple of wheelbarrows, and some grunts hired in to schlep. Because I've built myself, I have had the luxury of being able to take my time with every step, so the build is very solid. Sourced and bought the best materials I could within my budget - never struck supports for beams before 14 days, and soaked all my pours everyday, to help with strength / curing. All my posts from below the ground up, I wrapped in clingfilm, and left for plenty of time...

My floors are 7 x 4mm steel strand 5cm concrete planks, (most Thai builders, and Army bunkers use 4) with a 7 cm pour over them (3mm steel mesh embedded half pour height), and then allow for 3-5cm more concrete for laying tiles (Thai standard). That is way more than enough, spec wise for a suspended, normal floor...

Is your house directly on the ground, or raised up ? Your house footings should all be dug at once, and the outside area's metal work / foundations all tied into the main body of the house, so it's all one piece. Your pathway at 10 cm is way more than sufficient, with steel mesh reinforcing, and an extra skim for tiling.. Here, they use 3mm steel mesh @ 15 x 15 cm for concrete pour road building, to give you an idea. A flat pour of 10 cm waterproofed concrete on such an area (6x13meters), before tiling, directly on solid ground with appropriate footings / metal work / foundation beams and a ring beam is highly unlikely to subside or crack. Having said that, take drainage and runoff into account for your build. I have seen a lot of cracking in builds here, but the builders tend to throw everything up very quickly, without waiting for natural settlement, or build on newly compacted soil, without digging down into the old for footings, or, if they're on a job including materials price, use the cheapest metal / materials they can find, and not tie stuff in together properly.

Really, surprised your builders are asking you what thickness of concrete you want. Are you paying just for labour, and sourcing materials yourself ? Surely you have some sort of structural / engineering plans for your build ? You might have to keep an eye on the builders, or pay a foreman to make sure they're doing a proper job, mate. In my experience here, I wouldn't turn my back for a minute if I was leaving builders to it on my money - they need some sort of trusted supervision.

Post your structural plans - would be helpful.

Good luck.

The house is being built in Ubon. The builder is building the entire development of two story houses. I know they have an engineer but I think their request for information from me was an attempt on their part to get my input and keep me satisfied.

[Mike45]

I'm a little bemused by some of the posts above.

The OP is asking about what thickness he should put a 1 metre wide concrete skirt around his house, plus a larger pad for an outside area.

Both jobs are requiring completely different building specs.

As for the concrete skirt, assuming that it's a pathway, 100mm with steel reinforcing and expansion joints would sufficient.

As for the much larger pad for the kitchen etc. It all depends on the quality and consistency of the soil and sub-soils.

If it's being built in the Bangkok area ... yes ... 15 - 20 metre piles or foundations are standard industry practise from what I've read.

If however, you are on solid undisturbed ground or rock ... maybe 2 metres for footings would be sufficient.

As for the thickness of the slab ... well, a lot does come down to the compression load.

Will you be parking cars on it? Now or in the future. What is the roof to be made of ... concrete tiles weight much more then sheeting.

What has the builder advise you to lay as a concrete thickness?

OH ... non-slip tiles really are a good idea as it's a wet area due to the fact that it's, in part, a kitchen ans that the structure will presumably not have walls, hence open to the elements.

.

The large pad will be covered by a rood of CPAC roof tiles just like the house. No parked cars.

The soil was a rice patty. The entire development was filled and raised. They have put in the concrete roads. I believe the soil had settled for a least a couple of years.

The builder didn't advise yet they only asked me.

[Mike45]

Hi Mike45 -

You need pilings if you're building on a swamp, or putting up a huge multi level building. On decent ground, your footings don't need to come up from any deeper than around a meter, with each footing being a square meter in area. Below that meter, you would want 10 cm of compacted sand, with a 10cm level concrete pour to take the footing's metal work, which should have at least a 20cm pour encasing it, before you start pouring the posts upto foundation beam pour.. On a non or minimal load bearing surface, on decent ground, you could come up from as little as 50cm, and pour foundation beams sitting on the ground, aslong as you're spreading the weight well.

I've built (still building) a 200 square bungalow - raised up off the ground using a cpac roof, with all full weight steel (roof around 25 tonnes total), cavity wall red brick, etc, etc - many many tonnes in total - hasn't subsided atall, or if it has, I certainly haven't noticed.. Mixed all the concrete myself also, with a mixer I bought, which will give you a higher steng rating than cpac, generally. An area 6x13 meters is easily dooable in a day by hand, with a couple of wheelbarrows, and some grunts hired in to schlep. Because I've built myself, I have had the luxury of being able to take my time with every step, so the build is very solid. Sourced and bought the best materials I could within my budget - never struck supports for beams before 14 days, and soaked all my pours everyday, to help with strength / curing. All my posts from below the ground up, I wrapped in clingfilm, and left for plenty of time...

My floors are 7 x 4mm steel strand 5cm concrete planks, (most Thai builders, and Army bunkers use 4) with a 7 cm pour over them (3mm steel mesh embedded half pour height), and then allow for 3-5cm more concrete for laying tiles (Thai standard). That is way more than enough, spec wise for a suspended, normal floor...

Is your house directly on the ground, or raised up ? Your house footings should all be dug at once, and the outside area's metal work / foundations all tied into the main body of the house, so it's all one piece. Your pathway at 10 cm is way more than sufficient, with steel mesh reinforcing, and an extra skim for tiling.. Here, they use 3mm steel mesh @ 15 x 15 cm for concrete pour road building, to give you an idea. A flat pour of 10 cm waterproofed concrete on such an area (6x13meters), before tiling, directly on solid ground with appropriate footings / metal work / foundation beams and a ring beam is highly unlikely to subside or crack. Having said that, take drainage and runoff into account for your build. I have seen a lot of cracking in builds here, but the builders tend to throw everything up very quickly, without waiting for natural settlement, or build on newly compacted soil, without digging down into the old for footings, or, if they're on a job including materials price, use the cheapest metal / materials they can find, and not tie stuff in together properly.

Really, surprised your builders are asking you what thickness of concrete you want. Are you paying just for labour, and sourcing materials yourself ? Surely you have some sort of structural / engineering plans for your build ? You might have to keep an eye on the builders, or pay a foreman to make sure they're doing a proper job, mate. In my experience here, I wouldn't turn my back for a minute if I was leaving builders to it on my money - they need some sort of trusted supervision.

Post your structural plans - would be helpful.

Good luck.

Unfortunately I have no drawings to post. I simply asked the builder to add the 1 meter around the house and to add the roofed extension onto the back of the house

[Tywais]

All posts with PM which is private information have been removed.

Forum rule - 20) Not to post personal messages from other members, whether in full or in part.

//edit - Flame/profanity post removed

[David48]

Mike ... have you decided on the concrete thickness yet?

What sort of footings?

What sort of soil are you building on?

.

[Mike45]

David

I realized that I couldn't possibly tell them anything. So instead I asked what their engineer thought was needed and requested the specs and a quote.

Haven't heard back yet.