Abhisit Takes On Govt Over Rice Losses

[473geo]

No you have to be out in the coutryside to view the changes to understand how the additional funding is makig a difference to Thai agriculture and the Thai economy in General

You obviously didn't see yesterday's quote from the President of the Rice Farmer's Association. OTOH what would he know, in comparison to your vast knowledge and experience.

"Meanwhile, the Thai Rice Farmers Association acknowledged the huge

losses incurred by the government under the rice-pledging scheme, and

expressed worries about the future and the lower rice quality."

Association president Prasith Boonchuey said......."Despite the high

pledging price, farmers have never got high returns and still faced a

high debt burden after the higher cost of production. Farmers do not

want this unstable pledging at a high price as the government will

finally need to review the policy because of huge losses and financial

liquidity problems. Farmers have ignored development of rice quality

because the government has focused only on price, while they have no

plan to promote sustainable growth of rice plantations."

Prasith said the pledging policy had not helped farmers to improve their living standards.

I think I answered your comment already Mick.....in a previous post.

"..by the way did you ever meet a farmer who stated he was making enough.....I worked in agriculture for years and ever met one

yet!!....some nice new vehicles on the farms though.....funny that eh?"

[khunken]

Arrogant...no doubt.... compliments my knowledge and considered opinions..... ....a confidence that sets me apart from the average humble man... .....but enough about the more interesting 473geo

Oh dear .......more hot air is attempting to hijack this open, frank and informative thread!

I guess somebody had to bring the military balloon into the equation.....go on then how much did that fiasco cost the tax payer....

This thread is not about Chairman 473geo, nor is it about the military.

It's about rice subsidy losses from which the self-appointed chairman has tried to hijack the thread into his own wild unproven assertions as well as his own ego.

Methinks there is some off topic stuff that needs mod-ifying.

[OzMick]

No you have to be out in the coutryside to view the changes to understand how the additional funding is makig a difference to Thai agriculture and the Thai economy in General

You obviously didn't see yesterday's quote from the President of the Rice Farmer's Association. OTOH what would he know, in comparison to your vast knowledge and experience.

"Meanwhile, the Thai Rice Farmers Association acknowledged the huge

losses incurred by the government under the rice-pledging scheme, and

expressed worries about the future and the lower rice quality."

Association president Prasith Boonchuey said......."Despite the high

pledging price, farmers have never got high returns and still faced a

high debt burden after the higher cost of production. Farmers do not

want this unstable pledging at a high price as the government will

finally need to review the policy because of huge losses and financial

liquidity problems. Farmers have ignored development of rice quality

because the government has focused only on price, while they have no

plan to promote sustainable growth of rice plantations."

Prasith said the pledging policy had not helped farmers to improve their living standards.

I think I answered your comment already Mick.....in a previous post.

"..by the way did you ever meet a farmer who stated he was making enough.....I worked in agriculture for years and ever met one

yet!!....some nice new vehicles on the farms though.....funny that eh?"

Thank you for the obfuscation. Yes I have met quite a few farmers happy with their incomes, and new vehicles appear on farms even in the worst of times because they are needed for production. Which has nothing at all to do with the statements made by Prasith deploring huge losses, financial instability, quality loss, and indicating that in spite of billions in cost, the policy is not meeting its aim, to increase the income of farmers.

Will you dodge left, right or duck ?

[apetley]

I for one would love to see the rice mountain used to benefit the starving in the world, I'm sure you would too Ken.......so you see not all doom and gloom there is always a good side in any situation.....you just have to look hard enough Thai farmers benefit, the starving millions benefit, Thailand gains a reputation for being a caring country.......and the expats continue to moan about their taxes being wasted...oh well can't have it all I suppose

Back in the real world, we don't have any of it, except for huge losses to the people of Thailand - oh, and a nice little payout to farang's whose wife grows rice, eh?

Sure Mick...it seems that increased revenue is getting through.....to some.....by the way did you ever meet a farmer who stated he was making enough.....I worked in agriculture for years and ever met one yet!!....some nice new vehicles on the farms though.....funny that eh?

The Bank of Thailand doesn't seem to think farmers are doing that well either. Last weekend they released figures that year on year farming incomes had gone down 7.7%.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[smutcakes]

I for one would love to see the rice mountain used to benefit the starving in the world, I'm sure you would too Ken.......so you see not all doom and gloom there is always a good side in any situation.....you just have to look hard enough Thai farmers benefit, the starving millions benefit, Thailand gains a reputation for being a caring country.......and the expats continue to moan about their taxes being wasted...oh well can't have it all I suppose

Back in the real world, we don't have any of it, except for huge losses to the people of Thailand - oh, and a nice little payout to farang's whose wife grows rice, eh?

Sure Mick...it seems that increased revenue is getting through.....to some.....by the way did you ever meet a farmer who stated he was making enough.....I worked in agriculture for years and ever met one yet!!....some nice new vehicles on the farms though.....funny that eh?

The Bank of Thailand doesn't seem to think farmers are doing that well either. Last weekend they released figures that year on year farming incomes had gone down 7.7%.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

So contrary to the majority of posts about departments in the govt and the BOT, it is politicized or not?

[473geo]

No you have to be out in the coutryside to view the changes to understand how the additional funding is makig a difference to Thai agriculture and the Thai economy in General

You obviously didn't see yesterday's quote from the President of the Rice Farmer's Association. OTOH what would he know, in comparison to your vast knowledge and experience.

"Meanwhile, the Thai Rice Farmers Association acknowledged the huge

losses incurred by the government under the rice-pledging scheme, and

expressed worries about the future and the lower rice quality."

Association president Prasith Boonchuey said......."Despite the high

pledging price, farmers have never got high returns and still faced a

high debt burden after the higher cost of production. Farmers do not

want this unstable pledging at a high price as the government will

finally need to review the policy because of huge losses and financial

liquidity problems. Farmers have ignored development of rice quality

because the government has focused only on price, while they have no

plan to promote sustainable growth of rice plantations."

Prasith said the pledging policy had not helped farmers to improve their living standards.

I think I answered your comment already Mick.....in a previous post.

"..by the way did you ever meet a farmer who stated he was making enough.....I worked in agriculture for years and ever met one

yet!!....some nice new vehicles on the farms though.....funny that eh?"

Thank you for the obfuscation. Yes I have met quite a few farmers happy with their incomes, and new vehicles appear on farms even in the worst of times because they are needed for production. Which has nothing at all to do with the statements made by Prasith deploring huge losses, financial instability, quality loss, and indicating that in spite of billions in cost, the policy is not meeting its aim, to increase the income of farmers.

Will you dodge left, right or duck ?

Well nobody I know in Thai farming is complaining Mick....well if you discount the cost of fertiliser of course.....always too high but purchased never the less.

Oh and the new vehicles are more often than not a neccessity for tax puposes where profits are taxed.....so there is minimal profit showing...and written off mostly over a period of years against profits to ensure minimum tax deductions.......of course that is only my personal experience of farming, yours may differ.

Edited June 9, 2013 by 473geo

[Curt1591]

"Abhisit Takes On Govt Over Rice Losses"

I'm glad he finally decided to challenge Pheu Thai for a change ....

[473geo]

I for one would love to see the rice mountain used to benefit the starving in the world, I'm sure you would too Ken.......so you see not all doom and gloom there is always a good side in any situation.....you just have to look hard enough Thai farmers benefit, the starving millions benefit, Thailand gains a reputation for being a caring country.......and the expats continue to moan about their taxes being wasted...oh well can't have it all I suppose

Back in the real world, we don't have any of it, except for huge losses to the people of Thailand - oh, and a nice little payout to farang's whose wife grows rice, eh?

Sure Mick...it seems that increased revenue is getting through.....to some.....by the way did you ever meet a farmer who stated he was making enough.....I worked in agriculture for years and ever met one yet!!....some nice new vehicles on the farms though.....funny that eh?

The Bank of Thailand doesn't seem to think farmers are doing that well either. Last weekend they released figures that year on year farming incomes had gone down 7.7%.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

So are the bank talking about disposable income, direct sales revenue, and over what period year on year?

Edited June 9, 2013 by 473geo

[khunken]

So contrary to the majority of posts about departments in the govt and the BOT, it is politicized or not?

Somewhat off topic but not too far. The BOT has not (yet) been taken over by the government despite all efforts by Kittirat. It may, however, be under notice (Prasarn at least).

Their figures rather put the propaganda on this thread to the sword.

[apetley]

 

 

I for one would love to see the rice mountain used to benefit the starving in the world, I'm sure you would too Ken.......so you see not all doom and gloom there is always a good side in any situation.....you just have to look hard enough Thai farmers benefit, the starving millions benefit, Thailand gains a reputation for being a caring country.......and the expats continue to moan about their taxes being wasted...oh well can't have it all I suppose

Back in the real world, we don't have any of it, except for huge losses to the people of Thailand - oh, and a nice little payout to farang's whose wife grows rice, eh?

 

Sure Mick...it seems that increased revenue is getting through.....to some.....by the way did you ever meet a farmer who stated he was making enough.....I worked in agriculture for years and ever met one yet!!....some nice new vehicles on the farms though.....funny that eh?

 

The Bank of Thailand doesn't seem to think farmers are doing that well either. Last weekend they released figures that year on year farming incomes had gone down 7.7%.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

So contrary to the majority of posts about departments in the govt and the BOT, it is politicized or not?

Judging by the number of complaints from the governing party about the value of the Baht I would say BoT were as non politicized as possible here.

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[rubl]

Latest News!

K. Abhisit charged for rice pledge scheme debacle and defaming government by suggesting the well thought out scheme promoted by the Great Thinker in Dubai is not perfect.

Tongue-in-cheeky

[bigbamboo]

Arrogant...no doubt.... compliments my knowledge and considered opinions..... ....a confidence that sets me apart from the average humble man... .....but enough about the more interesting 473geo

Doesn't Geo sound as if he may be 'close to' the dear lamented CMK who so recently departed this forum bum's rush style.

[kimamey]

Abhisit's main problem is the confusion over the figures as we have government ministries disagreeing publicly, the PM admitting she hasn't been given a final figure and another comment that nothing will be known until the scheme ends in September but everybody is wrong about the losses anyway.

It really doesn't matter what Abhisit produces as the government will hide behind the wait to September excuse and all he can do is expose how inefficient the government and scheme is since no one has a clue what's going on.

I would suspect that when the final figures are produced, if ever, they will be suitably doctored to minimise losses and Abhisit's argument.

Actually they could drag it out beyond September. They've said they can't calculate the losses because they haven't sold the rice yet. So if they keep some in storage possibly waiting for the world price to increase then they wion't have to give any figures until it doesn't matter to them anymore.

[kimamey]

Arrogant...no doubt.... compliments my knowledge and considered opinions..... ....a confidence that sets me apart from the average humble man... .....but enough about the more interesting 473geo

Doesn't Geo sound as if he may be 'close to' the dear lamented CMK who so recently departed this forum bum's rush style.

I didn't know CMK had gone. I've been away for just over a day and he was here before I left.

[jbrain]

No you have to be out in the coutryside to view the changes to understand how the additional funding is makig a difference to Thai agriculture and the Thai economy in General

You obviously didn't see yesterday's quote from the President of the Rice Farmer's Association. OTOH what would he know, in comparison to your vast knowledge and experience.

"Meanwhile, the Thai Rice Farmers Association acknowledged the huge

losses incurred by the government under the rice-pledging scheme, and

expressed worries about the future and the lower rice quality."

Association president Prasith Boonchuey said......."Despite the high

pledging price, farmers have never got high returns and still faced a

high debt burden after the higher cost of production. Farmers do not

want this unstable pledging at a high price as the government will

finally need to review the policy because of huge losses and financial

liquidity problems. Farmers have ignored development of rice quality

because the government has focused only on price, while they have no

plan to promote sustainable growth of rice plantations."

Prasith said the pledging policy had not helped farmers to improve their living standards.

I think I answered your comment already Mick.....in a previous post.

"..by the way did you ever meet a farmer who stated he was making enough.....I worked in agriculture for years and ever met one

yet!!....some nice new vehicles on the farms though.....funny that eh?"

I have recently seen a lot of nice new vehicles on the driveways of people I know that don't have a nail to scratch there own arse, funny that eh?

[Joe Mamma]

ACCOUNTBILITY, it takes the sting outta corruption!

[Thai at Heart]

Facsinating article on the front page of the other paper.

Boonsong proposes to drop the pledge price to 10k per tonne because the farmers would be happy with it, since they don't receive 15k due to corruption. Adding, that the commerce ministry will have thein the final say about releasing any reported losses, but, in the sub heading, there is mention of 300bn baht being the losses which isn't mentioned at all in the article, but linked to an article in the business pages, where a ministry source claims 300bn when accounting for storage.

No one knows who the hell is saying what.

[Arkady]

It is somewhat disingenuous for Kittirat to argue that losses can't be known until the rice stocks are all sold. He was a securities analyst and, although he was only an indifferent one, he knows full well the principle of marking to market and asset impairment as applied to securities portfolios and other market priced assets as well the principle of writing off or down impaired inventories. In this case the we have limited life, perishable inventories which should be valued at the market price less any likely impairment that is likely to take place before the goods can be sold. This is investment research 101 and even Kittirat got that far.

[Thai at Heart]

It is somewhat disingenuous for Kittirat to argue that losses can't be known until the rice stocks are all sold. He was a securities analyst and, although he was only an indifferent one, he knows full well the principle of marking to market and asset impairment as applied to securities portfolios and other market priced assets as well the principle of writing off or down impaired inventories. In this case the we have limited life, perishable inventories which should be valued at the market price less any likely impairment that is likely to take place before the goods can be sold. This is investment research 101 and even Kittirat got that far.

Indeed. How many financial crises bigger than any that the rice system in Thailand have been sparked by accounting rules that have allowed assets to not be marked to market? Trading this type of stuff is all about valuing what you have in the warehouse, it is absolutely fundamental.

[indyuk]

Politics aside can anyone find fault with much of what Abhisit is saying because I can't.

Especially sensible seems to be the Dems policy of paying direct to the farmer.

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None of you seem to know what you are talking about. What is Abhist's policy. I've not heard of it. How can he have a policy when he is not in office. If Abhisit's government was so inovative and sucessful why were there so many problems when he was PM. Why were foreign governments so reluctent to recieve him. Why did the Japanese refuse his request for a loan when he was desparate when he'd run out of cash to complete a committment?

The PTP have many active projects. They are all potentially in the interests of Thailand and its people. Admittedly PTP may fall short on objectives and may be hopelessly underestimating true cost. However untill the costs are known the best oposition is to ask carefully prepared questions in the house when parliament is in session.

That the Democrats seem fishing for another coups before judicial process on the previous coups is complete is insane. Why? Because Thailand's coups benefit only the coups masters, never the Thai people.

[Thai at Heart]

Politics aside can anyone find fault with much of what Abhisit is saying because I can't.

Especially sensible seems to be the Dems policy of paying direct to the farmer.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

None of you seem to know what you are talking about. What is Abhist's policy. I've not heard of it. How can he have a policy when he is not in office. If Abhisit's government was so inovative and sucessful why were there so many problems when he was PM. Why were foreign governments so reluctent to recieve him. Why did the Japanese refuse his request for a loan when he was desparate when he'd run out of cash to complete a committment?

The PTP have many active projects. They are all potentially in the interests of Thailand and its people. Admittedly PTP may fall short on objectives and may be hopelessly underestimating true cost. However untill the costs are known the best oposition is to ask carefully prepared questions in the house when parliament is in session.

That the Democrats seem fishing for another coups before judicial process on the previous coups is complete is insane. Why? Because Thailand's coups benefit only the coups masters, never the Thai people.

The dems system was set up to pay directly to the farmer, but that was riven with possible corruption too. Until they create an accurate survey and reporting system about who has put what in the ground across which volumes and on how many rai, the whole system is up in the air in terms of making sure that the farmer gets paid into his hand. People renting, people leasing, people sharing product versus income on the product is so open to abuse it is impossible to close the loopholes.

Do they in reality know how many actual rice farmers i.e. individual heads of household who claim to be engaged in rice production for commercial purpose versus land owners leasing or employing farmers to produce?

[Thait Spot]

Politics aside can anyone find fault with much of what Abhisit is saying because I can't.

Especially sensible seems to be the Dems policy of paying direct to the farmer.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

None of you seem to know what you are talking about. What is Abhist's policy. I've not heard of it. How can he have a policy when he is not in office. If Abhisit's government was so inovative and sucessful why were there so many problems when he was PM. Why were foreign governments so reluctent to recieve him. Why did the Japanese refuse his request for a loan when he was desparate when he'd run out of cash to complete a committment?

The PTP have many active projects. They are all potentially in the interests of Thailand and its people. Admittedly PTP may fall short on objectives and may be hopelessly underestimating true cost. However untill the costs are known the best oposition is to ask carefully prepared questions in the house when parliament is in session.

That the Democrats seem fishing for another coups before judicial process on the previous coups is complete is insane. Why? Because Thailand's coups benefit only the coups masters, never the Thai people.

So, according to you, the only party that can have policies is the one in power? Hahahahahahahah!!!!

[Ricardo]

Politics aside can anyone find fault with much of what Abhisit is saying because I can't.

Especially sensible seems to be the Dems policy of paying direct to the farmer.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

None of you seem to know what you are talking about. What is Abhist's policy. I've not heard of it. How can he have a policy when he is not in office. If Abhisit's government was so inovative and sucessful why were there so many problems when he was PM. Why were foreign governments so reluctent to recieve him. Why did the Japanese refuse his request for a loan when he was desparate when he'd run out of cash to complete a committment?

The PTP have many active projects. They are all potentially in the interests of Thailand and its people. Admittedly PTP may fall short on objectives and may be hopelessly underestimating true cost. However untill the costs are known the best oposition is to ask carefully prepared questions in the house when parliament is in session.

That the Democrats seem fishing for another coups before judicial process on the previous coups is complete is insane. Why? Because Thailand's coups benefit only the coups masters, never the Thai people.

Since you were living here during the previous administration, you will naturally remember former-PM Abhisit's price-insurance policy, which guaranteed a minimum-price to many of the growers & passed the full subsidy direct to the farmers, rather than giving it to the millers as with Thaksin's brainwave.

I agree with you when you say "PTP may fall short on objectives, and may be hopelessly underestimating true cost" of their schemes, however politely asking the absent-PM or ministers questions in parliament appears to generate a number of conflicting or even evasive answers, which suggests that they simply don't know what's happening, or that they do know but don't want to admit how badly they've failed.

Thank heavens Moody's is willing/able to call them to account over this ! They are a useful check/balance on the current government's actions. And so is former-PM Abhisit's raising the lack of clarity about the true costs of the PTP rice-pledging system.

Lastly what is the "judicial process on the previous coups", I'm not sure what you mean, are you referring to the various PTP attempts at an amnesty covering everyone over the past several years, or court-cases arising from the events of 2010 ?

[billd766]

Quote Smutcakes Posted Yesterday,16:53

Okay you are probably correct if you mean long term is next year- I was meaning long term, as in long term- 5- 10 years down the line.
Obviously it is all conjecture at this point and I would be surprised if they keep doing this without in some way rethinking the way the scheme works.

Please accept my apologies for going this way but I cannot work out how to fix the

“You have quoted too many quotes” thing. It drives me crazy at times.

Thank you for the clarification.

However IMPO unless this rice pledging is stopped very soon there may not BE a 5 or 10 year down the line market.

It is very hard to gain the number 1 slot in most businesses worldwide. Keeping it is harder still.

To throw it away is verging on criminal as one thing you throw away is your word and credibility.

If you have a worldwide reputation for quality as Thailand did and then you compromise it but buying any and all rice in the country it is bad news but then to say to all your customers, this is the new highly inflated price you as a customer will HAVE to pay for Thai rice you will swiftly lack customers. That is exactly what has happened with this government and Thailand.

Nobody will trust your word when you drop your prices as you will have to do to get old and new customers to buy the rice.

Of course if you drop your price to the market level you will make a huge loss (no problem as it is only taxpayers money and not yours anyway) and there is STILL no guarantee that you will find a buyer.

If you go below the market prices you will make an even bigger loss at home AND have the WTO chasing you through the World courts as well.

That is what Thaksin and the PTP government have done to Thailand and ALL its people.

[Nickymaster]

Politics aside can anyone find fault with much of what Abhisit is saying because I can't.

Especially sensible seems to be the Dems policy of paying direct to the farmer.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

None of you seem to know what you are talking about. What is Abhist's policy. I've not heard of it. How can he have a policy when he is not in office. If Abhisit's government was so inovative and sucessful why were there so many problems when he was PM. Why were foreign governments so reluctent to recieve him. Why did the Japanese refuse his request for a loan when he was desparate when he'd run out of cash to complete a committment?

The PTP have many active projects. They are all potentially in the interests of Thailand and its people. Admittedly PTP may fall short on objectives and may be hopelessly underestimating true cost. However untill the costs are known the best oposition is to ask carefully prepared questions in the house when parliament is in session.

That the Democrats seem fishing for another coups before judicial process on the previous coups is complete is insane. Why? Because Thailand's coups benefit only the coups masters, never the Thai people.

The PTP have many active projects. They are all potentially in the interests of Thailand and its people

A few people you mean. That must be the reason 1/3 of the rice pledging money goes do the farmers, the rest goes to handling/storage/trading + financing etc. ALL for the big guys.

(You haven't heard of Khun Abhisit's rice policy BUT you know that foreign governments were reluctant to receive him, which has nothing to do with the topic and isn't even true. What a desperate statement.)

Edited June 10, 2013 by Nickymaster

[Robby nz]

Read on here how the rice farmers were buying new farm machinery, cars and utes so I though I would take some photos when I went out for a ride on my bike this morning to show some of the things the local farmers are using.

This of course is not by any means representative of rice farmers everywhere only what I saw along one soi and for all I know the owners of these things could well have new 4 wheel drive utes or Mercs at home, although I somehow doubt it.

The first picture is of a fairly typical tractor for round here.

The next was being used to pump water from the klong to the paddy.

This farmer had a very much bigger pump to do the job.

Although his ute had seen better days, tractor 1 in background.

And the efficient fertilizer spreading machines, note the vehicle on the left used to bring the fertiliser to the paddy.

If you didn't get a good look at it try this.

So there you have it a small example of what the farmers are using around here.

I hope instead of buying new gear they have managed to pay down some of their debt.

[473geo]

I would suggest that is his rice seed to broadcast, in last years fertiliser bags, as they are all string tied at the top........

But who am I to dispute an 'expert'

[Robby nz]

473geo

I would suggest that is his rice seed to broadcast, in last years fertiliser bags, as they are all string tied at the top........

But who am I to dispute an 'expert'

Well Geo I have never claimed to be an expert in rice farming but I am a good observer and I note from your posts that you have a certain expertise in spreading manure.

Should you be right that it was seed they were spreading then from what I have read this is a cost cutting and time saving thing.

Meaning that the farmer can get quicker crop rotation with less labor

Previously seed was sown in small plantations then the seedlings were transplanted in rows (I have seen this).

Again, if what I read is correct, the transplanting method gives better quality rice.

If that is true then the farmers I photographed are sacrificing quality for quantity to take advantage of the pledging.

[473geo]

How do you think they place the seed in the plantations Rob, one at a time!

[473geo]

And another thing Rob the quality of the rice is not influenced by the planting, if there is more concentration the rice maybe may not grow such a large seed, the strain of rice will dictate the quality, and the faster growing varieties may not produce the same 'quality'. Many farmers use the same strain they have used for years, they dry the rice in rice barns, it is often stored for a almost a year before it is collected, the seed rice for the following year is taken from last years crop, especially on the smaller farms. I would suggest your guy is using this method as the rice for next year is bagged in this manner so as not to be taken into account when the buyer appraises.

Should you require any further information regarding small farmer rice growing and techniques please do not hesitate to ask.......