12 Am And 12 Pm

[phuketjock]

Incidentally, the ThaiVisa forum software uses 00:00 for midnight:

ThaiVisa midnight.gif

Interesting, not 12pm or 12am then, there you go.

[utalkin2me]

I changed my post to make the question more clear. So, which would you go with? Simple question

I am not sure what you are looking for but I would not use 12am or 12pm rather i would use noon or midnight. Simple answer

Oh man. If you were forced to either put "12am" or "12pm" due to the advertising companies policies (which you may not agree with, but that is beside the case), which one would you put? Anyway, I don't expect you to answer, but this was interesting nonetheless.

I would change my advertising company to one that did not force me to do anything I didn't want to especially when I am the

one paying.

I will take your refusal to answer that simple question as you would in fact put 12am in there for the midnight slot. How can I take it otherwise? If you would have put 12pm in the slot, you assuredly would have answered that.

In reference to your not responding to my question, your thread was about the "incorrect" use of 12am and 12pm, and you are not even willing to use one yourself!!

[sbk]

Try meeting a Thai or getting met by a Thai at an airport when the 12 O'clock is mentioned. I use 1 or 11 when arranging a meeting.

Or simply learn to speak Thai, where noon and midnight are very clearly delineated.

Back to the topic, can I just say that I should not be surprised that its turned into a heated debate that is mostly civil, Lets keep it that way

[phuketjock]

I am not sure what you are looking for but I would not use 12am or 12pm rather i would use noon or midnight. Simple answer

Oh man. If you were forced to either put "12am" or "12pm" due to the advertising companies policies (which you may not agree with, but that is beside the case), which one would you put? Anyway, I don't expect you to answer, but this was interesting nonetheless.

I would change my advertising company to one that did not force me to do anything I didn't want to especially when I am the

one paying.

I will take your refusal to answer that simple question as you would in fact put 12am in there for the midnight slot. How can I take it otherwise? If you would have put 12pm in the slot, you assuredly would have answered that.

In reference to your not responding to my question, your thread was about the "incorrect" use of 12am and 12pm, and you are not even willing to use one yourself!!

utalking2me I believe I have responded to your question at least twice, and as I said in my OP 12am and 12pm actually have no real meaning so

as such I would not use either of them, now I have responded to your question three times. I cannot be held responsible for your refusal to accept

my answer sorry.

[phuketjock]

Last time Spoonman.

The thread is not about when AM and PM is.

[overherebc]

Here's one that always confuses me. Is midnight on a 24 hour clock 24:00 or 00:00? Seen quite a few 00:00's in Thailand but never seen it anywhere else.

It is often shown as 24:00 but to my mind that's not possible because there is no such time as 24:01

I agree. So if 1 minute before midnight is 23:59 and 1 minute past midnight is 00:01 - can midnight be both 24:00 and 00:00?

Theorically it can be 24:00:00 but that would be for one second. The next measureable time (in seconds) would be 00:00:01.

The British forces and most (if not all) other armed forces count midnight as 23:59. So the 24 hour clock is from 00:00:01 until 23:59:59.

One second short of a day..................

And if your RSM was anything like mine when he said 'Be here at 2400 you #^^&*&*R#$##&() you just knew if you were one second after 2355 you would be as the yanks call it 'in a world of sh-t'

[Maestro]

Incidentally, the ThaiVisa forum software uses 00:00 for midnight:

ThaiVisa midnight.gif

Interesting, not 12pm or 12am then, there you go.

The 24-hour clock is used.

[Maestro]

Last time Spoonman.

The thread is not about when AM and PM is.

It is about when 12am and 12pm are.

[Spoonman]

Last time Spoonman.

The thread is not about when AM and PM is.

It is about when 12am and 12pm are.

Correct and according to the OP the current time 1.40am in the afternoon.

[Maestro]

From the OP:

...12 PM is 12 O'clock midnight...

On my computer, 12 PM is at noon.

[utalkin2me]

You answered the question "what would you put for your time midnight time slot, 12am or 12pm"? You answered that, really?

I will take your refusal to answer that simple question as you would in fact put 12am in there for the midnight slot. How can I take it otherwise? If you would have put 12pm in the slot, you assuredly would have answered that.

Oh man. If you were forced to either put "12am" or "12pm" due to the advertising companies policies (which you may not agree with, but that is beside the case), which one would you put? Anyway, I don't expect you to answer, but this was interesting nonetheless.

I am not sure what you are looking for but I would not use 12am or 12pm rather i would use noon or midnight. Simple answer

I would change my advertising company to one that did not force me to do anything I didn't want to especially when I am the

one paying.

In reference to your not responding to my question, your thread was about the "incorrect" use of 12am and 12pm, and you are not even willing to use one yourself!!

utalking2me I believe I have responded to your question at least twice, and as I said in my OP 12am and 12pm actually have no real meaning so

as such I would not use either of them, now I have responded to your question three times. I cannot be held responsible for your refusal to accept

my answer sorry.

You did not answer, you dodged, which speaks volumes. The question stipulates you must pick one. You started the thread, why would you not just put "12pm" for a show with a midnight time slot? Wasn't that your entire point? But, you wont even say your answer is 12pm to that question. Why not?

I take it you weren't to good at tests in school, but take a stab at this one: you have an advertisement to put on a billboard for your TV show, the show starts at midnight. Circle the correct answer out of the two options for advertised air time that would get you the most possible viewers: 12am 12pm

If you don't think at all, you have a 50/50 chance. If you want my advice, try that option, cus when you try to think, it aint working.

Edited June 11, 2013 by utalkin2me

[phuketjock]

You answered the question "what would you put for your time midnight time slot, 12am or 12pm"? You answered that, really?

I will take your refusal to answer that simple question as you would in fact put 12am in there for the midnight slot. How can I take it otherwise? If you would have put 12pm in the slot, you assuredly would have answered that.

Oh man. If you were forced to either put "12am" or "12pm" due to the advertising companies policies (which you may not agree with, but that is beside the case), which one would you put? Anyway, I don't expect you to answer, but this was interesting nonetheless.

I am not sure what you are looking for but I would not use 12am or 12pm rather i would use noon or midnight. Simple answer

I would change my advertising company to one that did not force me to do anything I didn't want to especially when I am the

one paying.

In reference to your not responding to my question, your thread was about the "incorrect" use of 12am and 12pm, and you are not even willing to use one yourself!!

utalking2me I believe I have responded to your question at least twice, and as I said in my OP 12am and 12pm actually have no real meaning so

as such I would not use either of them, now I have responded to your question three times. I cannot be held responsible for your refusal to accept

my answer sorry.

You did not answer, you dodged, which speaks volumes. The question stipulates you must pick one. You started the thread, why would you not just put "12pm" for a show with a midnight time slot? Wasn't that your entire point? But, you wont even say your answer is 12pm to that question. Why not?

I take it you weren't to good at tests in school, but take a stab at this one: you have an advertisement to put on a billboard for your TV show, the show starts at midnight. Circle the correct answer out of the two options for advertised air time that would get you the most possible viewers: 12am 12pm

If you don't think at all, you have a 50/50 chance. If you want my advice, try that option, cus when you try to think, it aint working.

utalking2me you are now actually boring me, but you are not alone. Perhaps you and spoonman should get together because you

both seem to have same incapacity to comprehend the simple written word.

Good luck to both of you.

[phuketjock]

On my computer, 12 PM is at noon.

And on my computer it doesn't, and it would appear you seem to have lifted your video of " your computer " from

youtube.com. Hmmmm

[Maestro]

phuketjock, that video is a recording of my computer screen and I uploaded it to YouTube so that I could link to it in my post. I have now changed it to a modified version with zoom-in for easier viewing.

Let's see a recording from your computer tomorrow noon.

[Maestro]

The moderating team continues to remove off-topic posts and flames. If any more posts disappear, that will be the reason why. Post your facts and opinions without baiting or attacking other members.

[Cluey]

I will add my vote to those that have stated "12am and 12pm should not be used because they are ambiguous", there is not universal standard accepted meaning for this LANGUAGE issue.

From a philosophical point of view, time never stands still, so if noon "on the dot" was still AM, and 1 second after noon is PM, so is .01 and .00000001 for that matter, which is much longer than it takes to say (or even think) "NOW", so the OP's convention would be very confusing.

From a practical point of view I was certainly always taught that 12AM is midnight and 12PM is noon, and was amazed at the Thais getting it wrong, so after exploring all this see it as yet another UK vs US language difference.

But both the previous points are by the by, bottom line is 12 noon and 12 midnight are clear, I would only use AM or PM after one o'clock, or for anything critical use the 24-hour scheme.

Finally, if your computer UI "has no room" to display anything more than two characters after the two-digit time, it's the UI that's broken and needs to be fixed, not the world's understanding of this critical issue.

See also:

http://www.npl.co.uk/science-technology/time-frequency/time/faqs/is-midnight-12-a.m.-or-12-p.m.-(faq-time)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-hour_clock#Confusion_at_noon_and_midnight

[phuketjock]

phuketjock, that video is a recording of my computer screen and I uploaded it to YouTube so that I could link to it in my post. I have now changed it to a modified version with zoom-in for easier viewing.

Let's see a recording from your computer tomorrow noon.

Dear Maestro,

Even if I had the faintest idea how to do what you ask it would be a pointless exercise as my computer clock uses the 24hr system

and does not show AM or PM for 12 O'clock noon or for 12 O'clock midnight, just numbers so no joy there for either of us sadly eh?

And before you ask it doesn't have a choice of 12 or 24 hr clock, I checked. You are obviously much more adept than me when it

comes to computers and, I am in no way suggesting you have, but how would I or anyone know if you had or had not tampered with

your post of your computer clock??

Maestro it is becoming quite obvious that, although you have read and, I am sure, understood exactly what the Greenwich meantime

website says on the subject, you are going to go your way on this whether you are right or wrong, that is your perogative and as you

are admin and I am but a pleb it is fairly obvious who has the bigger guns. So fill your boots mate.

Goodbye

[phuketjock]

I will add my vote to those that have stated "12am and 12pm should not be used because they are ambiguous", there is not universal standard accepted meaning for this LANGUAGE issue.

From a philosophical point of view, time never stands still, so if noon "on the dot" was still AM, and 1 second after noon is PM, so is .01 and .00000001 for that matter, which is much longer than it takes to say (or even think) "NOW", so the OP's convention would be very confusing.

From a practical point of view I was certainly always taught that 12AM is midnight and 12PM is noon, and was amazed at the Thais getting it wrong, so after exploring all this see it as yet another UK vs US language difference.

But both the previous points are by the by, bottom line is 12 noon and 12 midnight are clear, I would only use AM or PM after one o'clock, or for anything critical use the 24-hour scheme.

Finally, if your computer UI "has no room" to display anything more than two characters after the two-digit time, it's the UI that's broken and needs to be fixed, not the world's understanding of this critical issue.

See also:

http://www.npl.co.uk/science-technology/time-frequency/time/faqs/is-midnight-12-a.m.-or-12-p.m.-(faq-time)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-hour_clock#Confusion_at_noon_and_midnight

Cluey,

The most important part/s of your post IMO is " another UK vs US language difference " and " amazed at the Thais getting it wrong "

Whether it is done right or wrong if it is not done the American way then it must be wrong. Pretty much sums up the contents of this

entire thread.

[rixalex]

First you suggest he might have lied...

And on my computer it doesn't, and it would appear you seem to have lifted your video of " your computer " from

youtube.com. Hmmmm

Thought that might have warranted an apology..

Instead, you raise the possibility, whilst at the same time in no way suggesting it?!, of him having tampered with his post of his computer clock...

You are obviously much more adept than me when it

comes to computers and, I am in no way suggesting you have, but how would I or anyone know if you had or had not tampered with

your post of your computer clock??

[Maestro]

I will add my vote to those that have stated "12am and 12pm should not be used because they are ambiguous", there is not universal standard accepted meaning for this LANGUAGE issue.

...

From a practical point of view I was certainly always taught that 12AM is midnight and 12PM is noon, and was amazed at the Thais getting it wrong, so after exploring all this see it as yet another UK vs US language difference.

But both the previous points are by the by, bottom line is 12 noon and 12 midnight are clear, I would only use AM or PM after one o'clock, or for anything critical use the 24-hour scheme.

...

I do not think that it is ambiguous nor a UK versus US language difference. Of the various web pages on the subject cited in this topic the consensus I see is that

1. 12am and 12pm should not be used
2. when they are used, 12am means midnight and 12pm means noon

With reference to the web page wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/info/noon.htm one member wrote:

I have posted a link to the Greenwich meantime website and I said in my initial post that the terms 12am and 12pm were in fact

meaningless but that if people insisted on using them please use them correctly.

Any hotel that I have stayed in has always posted their checkout time as 12 noon so no problem there.

There is nothing technical about it the above website which has been dealing with time for a very very long time

clearly states that pm starts after 12 noon at 12.00.01pm so if you insist on giving 12 noon a label it has to be 12am,

and as am clearly does not start until 00.00.01am then the label for 12 midnight has to be 12pm.

Try as I might I can find no text to that effect on the cited web page and I should be grateful if somebody with a better understanding of English than I have would kindly copy the corresponding text from that page and post it here.

[Maestro]

With refernce to the web page wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/info/noon.htm a member wrote:

I have posted a link to the Greenwich meantime website...

There is nothing technical about it the above website which has been dealing with time for a very very long time before
America or wikipedia was discovered or existed...

I find no fault with the information on the cited web page and for the information of our readers would like to give this background information:

The website greenwichmeantime.com was created on 1999-01-02 and is owned by Greenwich 2000 Limited.

Source: http://www.who.is/whois/greenwichmeantime.com/

​Greenwich 2000 Limited was incorporated in the United Kingdom on 1996-03-15

Source: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//compdetails

Greenwich 2000 Limited is "an Internet Publisher of high-profile and high trafficked web-sites known as the Greenwich 2000 Network"

Source: http://wwp.greenwich2000.ltd.uk/

[chrisinth]

phuketjock, that video is a recording of my computer screen and I uploaded it to YouTube so that I could link to it in my post. I have now changed it to a modified version with zoom-in for easier viewing.

Let's see a recording from your computer tomorrow noon.

Dear Maestro,

Even if I had the faintest idea how to do what you ask it would be a pointless exercise as my computer clock uses the 24hr system

and does not show AM or PM for 12 O'clock noon or for 12 O'clock midnight, just numbers so no joy there for either of us sadly eh?

And before you ask it doesn't have a choice of 12 or 24 hr clock, I checked. You are obviously much more adept than me when it

comes to computers and, I am in no way suggesting you have, but how would I or anyone know if you had or had not tampered with

your post of your computer clock??

Maestro it is becoming quite obvious that, although you have read and, I am sure, understood exactly what the Greenwich meantime

website says on the subject, you are going to go your way on this whether you are right or wrong, that is your perogative and as you

are admin and I am but a pleb it is fairly obvious who has the bigger guns. So fill your boots mate.

Goodbye

Phuketjock, FYI:

To change Time format on a Windows Operating System:

1. Click the Start button

2. Click Control Panel, click Region and Language (If you cannot see the Region and Language icon, change the View by: (top right) to Small Icons)

3. On the Formats tab, click on Additional settings (bottom right)

4. Click on the Time tab

For 24 hour clock: Short time select HH:mm, Long time select HH:mm:ss

For 12 hour clock (AM/PM): Short time select h:mm tt, Long time select hh:mm:ss tt

5. Click Apply, OK and close all open windows.

Your computer time will now read what you have set.

This is the routine for Windows 7, but the other Windows operating systems are similar.

Don't do Mac..............

[Cluey]

I do not think that it is ambiguous nor a UK versus US language difference. Of the various web pages on the subject cited in this topic the consensus I see is that

• 12am and 12pm should not be used
• when they are used, 12am means midnight and 12pm means noon

-

I agree.

If it turns out there is actually a near-consensus on this issue (excluding the OP unless he's been convinced) then that would be a first for TV.com I think and deserves a celebration.

[phuketjock]

I will add my vote to those that have stated "12am and 12pm should not be used because they are ambiguous", there is not universal standard accepted meaning for this LANGUAGE issue.

...

From a practical point of view I was certainly always taught that 12AM is midnight and 12PM is noon, and was amazed at the Thais getting it wrong, so after exploring all this see it as yet another UK vs US language difference.

But both the previous points are by the by, bottom line is 12 noon and 12 midnight are clear, I would only use AM or PM after one o'clock, or for anything critical use the 24-hour scheme.

...

I do not think that it is ambiguous nor a UK versus US language difference. Of the various web pages on the subject cited in this topic the consensus I see is that

1. 12am and 12pm should not be used
2. when they are used, 12am means midnight and 12pm means noon

With reference to the web page wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/info/noon.htm one member wrote:

I have posted a link to the Greenwich meantime website and I said in my initial post that the terms 12am and 12pm were in fact

meaningless but that if people insisted on using them please use them correctly.

Any hotel that I have stayed in has always posted their checkout time as 12 noon so no problem there.

There is nothing technical about it the above website which has been dealing with time for a very very long time

clearly states that pm starts after 12 noon at 12.00.01pm so if you insist on giving 12 noon a label it has to be 12am,

and as am clearly does not start until 00.00.01am then the label for 12 midnight has to be 12pm.

Try as I might I can find no text to that effect on the cited web page and I should be grateful if somebody with a better understanding of English than I have would kindly copy the corresponding text from that page and post it here.

Maestro once again from http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/info/noon.htm

A.M. and P.M. What is Noon and Midnight?

A.M. and P.M. start immediately after Midnight and Noon (Midday) respectively.

This means that 00:00 A.M. or 00:00 P.M. (or 12:00 A.M. and 12:00 P.M.) have no meaning.

Every day starts precisely at midnight and A.M. starts immediately after that point in time e.g. 00:00:01 A.M. (see also leap seconds)

To avoid confusion timetables, when scheduling around midnight, prefer to use either 23:59 or 00:01 to avoid confusion as to which day is being referred to.

It is after Noon that P.M. starts e.g. 00:00:01 PM (12:00:01)

The pertenant points being,

Every day starts precisely at midnight and AM starts immediately after that point in time e.g. 00:00:01 AM

Therefore any time before 00:00:01 AM must be PM i.e. 12 midnight must be 12 PM.

It is after noon that PM starts e.g. 00:00:01 PM ( 12:00:01 )

Therefore any time prior to 12:00:01 PM must be AM i.e. 12 noon must be 12 AM.

It is also difficult to comprehend how 11 hours of AM can suddenly end in PM 1AM to 11 Am then 12 PM

just doesn't make sense.

Same with PM 1PM to 11PM then 12 AM not logical at all.

[Maestro]

Of course it does not make sense that after 11:59am there is 12pm and that after 11:59pm there is 12am, for the simple reason that 12pm and 12am do not exist; it must be noon and midnight. However, because some publications and online TV guides and digital clocks displaying time in the 12-hour system use the non-existing, ie wrong, 12pm and 12am it is no use denying the fact that 12pm is used to mean noon and 12am to mean midnight, apparently with the exception of the Japanese legal convention (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-hour_clock#Confusion_at_noon_and_midnight) which has

00:00 a.m. = midnight start of the day

12:00 a.m. = noon

12:00 p.m. = midnight end of the day

The International Standards Organisation (ISO) seems to be silent on the subject of 12am and 12pm

[phuketjock]

Of course it does not make sense that after 11:59am there is 12pm and that after 11:59pm there is 12am, for the simple reason that 12pm and 12am do not exist; it must be noon and midnight. However, because some publications and online TV guides and digital clocks displaying time in the 12-hour system use the non-existing, ie wrong, 12pm and 12am it is no use denying the fact that 12pm is used to mean noon and 12am to mean midnight, apparently with the exception of the Japanese legal convention (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-hour_clock#Confusion_at_noon_and_midnight) which has

00:00 a.m. = midnight start of the day

12:00 a.m. = noon

12:00 p.m. = midnight end of the day

The International Standards Organisation (ISO) seems to be silent on the subject of 12am and 12pm

Now we are getting there UK, Thailand, ( according to Cluey ) and now Japan use 12 AM for noon and 12PM for midnight

but America uses 12 PM for noon and 12 AM for midnight so that automatically means UK, Thailandand Japan are wrong,

God Bless America.

So now your arguement is yes the terms don't really exist but because some publications and other entities use them albeit

wrongly we should all just go along with it, that sounds a bit pathetic imo.

[Maestro]

UK? Thailand? Never seen them use 12am for noon and 12pm for midnight.

[chrisinth]

Of course it does not make sense that after 11:59am there is 12pm and that after 11:59pm there is 12am, for the simple reason that 12pm and 12am do not exist; it must be noon and midnight. However, because some publications and online TV guides and digital clocks displaying time in the 12-hour system use the non-existing, ie wrong, 12pm and 12am it is no use denying the fact that 12pm is used to mean noon and 12am to mean midnight, apparently with the exception of the Japanese legal convention (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-hour_clock#Confusion_at_noon_and_midnight) which has

00:00 a.m. = midnight start of the day

12:00 a.m. = noon

12:00 p.m. = midnight end of the day

The International Standards Organisation (ISO) seems to be silent on the subject of 12am and 12pm

In the above examples however, you have two different descriptions, using two different designators showing the one point of time:

00:00:00 a.m. = midnight start of the day

12:00:00 p.m. = midnight end of the day

I've added seconds for clarity, as this is important.

The term 12:00:00 p.m. is absolute, in that any time after this would not be pm, ie, 12:00:01 would become 12:00:01 am.

The term 00:00:00 a.m. is in fact neither AM or PM, this is the median. AM does not become applicable until time passes this point by any fraction of a second.

But I think everybody would accept the above times as correct. To avoid debates (such as this thread) the terms Midnight & Midday have been accepted as descriptors for these two one second intervals during the 24 hour period.

[phuketjock]

Of course it does not make sense that after 11:59am there is 12pm and that after 11:59pm there is 12am, for the simple reason that 12pm and 12am do not exist; it must be noon and midnight. However, because some publications and online TV guides and digital clocks displaying time in the 12-hour system use the non-existing, ie wrong, 12pm and 12am it is no use denying the fact that 12pm is used to mean noon and 12am to mean midnight, apparently with the exception of the Japanese legal convention (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-hour_clock#Confusion_at_noon_and_midnight) which has

00:00 a.m. = midnight start of the day

12:00 a.m. = noon

12:00 p.m. = midnight end of the day

The International Standards Organisation (ISO) seems to be silent on the subject of 12am and 12pm

In the above examples however, you have two different descriptions, using two different designators showing the one point of time:

00:00:00 a.m. = midnight start of the day

12:00:00 p.m. = midnight end of the day

I've added seconds for clarity, as this is important.

The term 12:00:00 p.m. is absolute, in that any time after this would not be pm, ie, 12:00:01 would become 12:00:01 am.

The term 00:00:00 a.m. is in fact neither AM or PM, this is the median. AM does not become applicable until time passes this point by any fraction of a second.

But I think everybody would accept the above times as correct. To avoid debates (such as this thread) the terms Midnight & Midday have been accepted as descriptors for these two one second intervals during the 24 hour period.

Chris you are absolutely correct in your post and there would be no problem, or need for my OP, if people would indeed use

Midnight and Midday or noon, but unfortunately many insist on using 12AM and 12 PM and the purpose of my thread was to

inform those who do insist on using the terms to use them correctly i.e. 12AM should represent 12 Midday or noon and 12PM

should represent 12 midnight, not the other way round.

[Maestro]

...Now we are getting there UK, Thailand, ( according to Cluey ) and now Japan use 12 AM for noon and 12PM for midnight

but America uses 12 PM for noon and 12 AM for midnight so that automatically means UK, Thailandand Japan are wrong,

God Bless America.

So now your arguement is yes the terms don't really exist but because some publications and other entities use them albeit

wrongly we should all just go along with it, that sounds a bit pathetic imo.

I have seen no information on the web saying that the UK and Thailand use 12am for noon 12pm for midnight.

It was getting boring to see all web links stating that 12am is being used for midnight and 12pm for noon and therefore I was glad to find the web page about the "Japanese legal convention" showing the opposite, but how excited should we get about this? To what extent, if any, is it currently used in Japan?