12 Am And 12 Pm

[phuketjock]

So please let me inform everyone that 12 AM is 12 O'clock midday and 12 PM is 12 O'clock midnight.

OP post a link that says 12 am and 12 pm are meaningless and yet the OP says that 12 am is midday and 12 pm is midnight...tell that to your hotel when they tell you that checkout time is 12 PM....NOON TIME...

TECHINCALLY 12 am is exactly neither am or pm....it is 00:00 Techincally 12 PM is neither am or pm it is 12:00....but around the world exactly one minute past midnight is 00:01 or 12:01 AM...one minute before midnight is 23;59 which is PM.........one minute past noon is 12:01 PM....one minute before noon is 11;59 which is AM.

bottom line is 12 AM is considered MIDNIGHT and 12 PM is considered NOON....this is the system used by airline, hotels, broadcast programs and every other function worldwide...I believe that they may be pretty sure of it.....

but for the OP please feel free to show up at MIDDAY for a flight departing at 12 AM or at midnight for a flight scheduled for 12 PM and see how that works out for you.

I have posted a link to the Greenwich meantime website and I said in my initial post that the terms 12am and 12pm were in fact

meaningless but that if people insisted on using them please use them correctly.

Any hotel that I have stayed in has always posted their checkout time as 12 noon so no problem there.

There is nothing technical about it the above website which has been dealing with time for a very very long time before

America or wikipedia was discovered or existed and it clearly states that pm starts after 12 noon at 12.00.01pm so if

you insist on giving 12 noon a label it has to be 12am,and as am clearly does not start until 00.00.01am then the label

for 12 midnight has to be 12pm.

Bottom line if you consider 12am to be midnight and 12pm to be noon then you consider incorrectly, this system is

not used by hotels as I have pointed out and airlines use the 24 hr system to avoid such people as yourself getting

it wrong and of course to avoid the possibility of confusion. Of course Television programming is never wrong!!!

I have travelled around the world in pursuit of my employment for around 30 or more years using 12am for noon and

12pm for midnight and I have never missed a flight yet, nor have I missed a hotel checkout because I got the time

wrong.

I have missed hotel checkout for reasons that would be considered off topic so I can't go there

Edited June 9, 2013 by phuketjock

[chrisinth]

Here's one that always confuses me. Is midnight on a 24 hour clock 24:00 or 00:00? Seen quite a few 00:00's in Thailand but never seen it anywhere else.

It is often shown as 24:00 but to my mind that's not possible because there is no such time as 24:01

I agree. So if 1 minute before midnight is 23:59 and 1 minute past midnight is 00:01 - can midnight be both 24:00 and 00:00?

Theorically it can be 24:00:00 but that would be for one second. The next measureable time (in seconds) would be 00:00:01.

The British forces and most (if not all) other armed forces count midnight as 23:59. So the 24 hour clock is from 00:00:01 until 23:59:59.

One second short of a day..................

Edited June 9, 2013 by chrisinth

[phuketjock]

Use 12 noon or 12 midnight - no ambiguity.

Unfortunately that's the problem people insist on using 12 AM and 12 PM.

WRONGLY.

[bina]

12 noon and 00:00 midnite; in hebrew its easier, we call midnite : hatzot i.e. half. and lunch is just 12 lunch. howver, we do have arguements when afternoon ends, evening starts and then night begins. our hotel closes at midnite (00:00) and opens at 7:00. no am or pm for us.

and hubby's thai times are round times only... nothing in between. and night is when its dark, day is whne its light, with no connection to actual times.

[utalkin2me]

Don't ask them to start counting to 24 without some extra fingers and toes or a calulator. They do struggle with their own time frame already

I think it is we who struggle with their time frame. My wife and I use the 24 hour or AM PM time frame I haven't a clue when she starts in with the Thai system. I think it is dividing the day up into three different time slots.

Actually 00:00 is neither AM or PM it is midnight. 00:001 is AM

12:00 is neither AM or PM it is noon. 12:001 is PM

Sorry but the OP is incorrect. Unless some specific condition applies in Phuket.

Everywhere else though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-hour_clock#Confusion_at_noon_and_midnight

Sorry to burst your wikipedia bubble but, this is from http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/info/noon.htm

I think they may have more knowledge than you or me or wikipedia when it comes to when AM and PM starts No???

Every day starts precisely at midnight and A.M. starts immediately after that point in time e.g. 00:00:01 A.M. (see also leap seconds)

To avoid confusion timetables, when scheduling around midnight, prefer to use either 23:59 or 00:01 to avoid confusion as to which day is being referred to.

It is after Noon that P.M. starts e.g. 00:00:01 PM (12:00:01)

Let's ask another question. Let's say you had a TV show and wanted viewers. Your advertisement could read ONLY 12am or 12pm because of space restrictions. Your show in fact starts at midnight. Which one are you going to put? If you put 12pm in there you need to have your head examined (at least based on the country I am from, which could be wrong I will admit ).

I think this is an issue of usage determining correctness myself. Correctness here being the way the majority or people understand a word, which isn't necessarily technically correct. Confused yet? In short, I think op is wrong in that more people will be confused by the arbitrary, man-made system he prefers.

Edited June 9, 2013 by utalkin2me

[phuketjock]

I think it is we who struggle with their time frame. My wife and I use the 24 hour or AM PM time frame I haven't a clue when she starts in with the Thai system. I think it is dividing the day up into three different time slots.

Actually 00:00 is neither AM or PM it is midnight. 00:001 is AM

12:00 is neither AM or PM it is noon. 12:001 is PM

Sorry but the OP is incorrect. Unless some specific condition applies in Phuket.

Everywhere else though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-hour_clock#Confusion_at_noon_and_midnight

Sorry to burst your wikipedia bubble but, this is from http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/info/noon.htm

I think they may have more knowledge than you or me or wikipedia when it comes to when AM and PM starts No???

Every day starts precisely at midnight and A.M. starts immediately after that point in time e.g. 00:00:01 A.M. (see also leap seconds)

To avoid confusion timetables, when scheduling around midnight, prefer to use either 23:59 or 00:01 to avoid confusion as to which day is being referred to.

It is after Noon that P.M. starts e.g. 00:00:01 PM (12:00:01)

Let's ask another question. Let's say you had a TV show and wanted viewers. Your advertisement could read 12am or 12pm. Your show in fact starts at midnight. Which one are you going to put? If you put 12pm in there you need to have your head examined (at least based on the country I am from, which could be wrong I will admit ).

utalking2me that is an easy one, if you wish to avoid any possibility of ambiguity you would put 12 midnight in your ad no??

[utalkin2me]

I changed my post to make the question more clear. So, which would you go with? Simple question

[utalkin2me]

My computer clock rolled over and said "12:00 am". Did the am only appear one second after 12:00. I don't know.

Edited June 9, 2013 by utalkin2me

[sustento]

Don't ask them to start counting to 24 without some extra fingers and toes or a calulator. They do struggle with their own time frame already

I think it is we who struggle with their time frame. My wife and I use the 24 hour or AM PM time frame I haven't a clue when she starts in with the Thai system. I think it is dividing the day up into three different time slots.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/645370-12-am-and-12-pm/#entry6490178

[sbk]

Moving to pub

[Maestro]

I have posted a link to the Greenwich meantime website and I said in my initial post that the terms 12am and 12pm were in fact

meaningless but that if people insisted on using them please use them correctly.

Any hotel that I have stayed in has always posted their checkout time as 12 noon so no problem there.

There is nothing technical about it the above website which has been dealing with time for a very very long time

clearly states that pm starts after 12 noon at 12.00.01pm so if you insist on giving 12 noon a label it has to be 12am,

and as am clearly does not start until 00.00.01am then the label for 12 midnight has to be 12pm.

Bottom line if you consider 12am to be midnight and 12pm to be noon then you consider incorrectly, this system is

not used by hotels as I have pointed out and airlines use the 24 hr system to avoid such people as yourself getting

it wrong and of course to avoid the possibility of confusion. Of course Television programming is never wrong!!!

I have travelled around the world in pursuit of my employment for around 30 or more years using 12am for noon and

12pm for midnight and I have never missed a flight yet, nor have I missed a hotel checkout because I got the time

wrong.

I have missed hotel checkout for reasons that would be considered off topic so I can't go there

Sorry to say, but you are wrong. You gave the link http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/info/noon.htm and nowhere on that page does it say 12 noon is 12am and midnight is 12 pm, nor does it give any indication that such can be assumed, derived, deduced or concluded from the information on that page.

Applying logic to all this you would have to say that meridiem = noon, ante meridiem = before noon, therefore one hour ante meridiem would have to be 1am = one hour before noon, but this is not how the anglosaxon world uses it. In the 24-hour system converted to the am/pm system the sequence is am --> noon --> pm --> midnight (http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/time-zone/usa/eastern-time/convert/). As you correctly quoted from the cited webpage, 12am and 12pm do not exist and make no sense. However, since some people and some publications do use 12am and 12pm, some sense had to be contrived for these terms and the Wikipedia page quoted by a member correctly reflects this as 12am = midnight and 12pm = noon.

P.S. Actually, the Wikipedia page to which I linked above does not use 12am, only 12 pm = noon. Another Wikipedia page, Confusion at noon and midnight, makes reference to 12am = midnight.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Maestro
added postscript

[stoneyboy]

Slow on here then talking about the time of day,back to welding on the Derrick for me.

[Maestro]

...I have travelled around the world in pursuit of my employment for around 30 or more years using 12am for noon and

12pm for midnight and I have never missed a flight yet, nor have I missed a hotel checkout because I got the time

wrong. ...

If you have an airline time-table listing a flight departing at 12am or 12pm you have a rarity and should treasure it.

[phuketjock]

I changed my post to make the question more clear. So, which would you go with? Simple question

I am not sure what you are looking for but I would not use 12am or 12pm rather i would use noon or midnight. Simple answer

[utalkin2me]

I changed my post to make the question more clear. So, which would you go with? Simple question

I am not sure what you are looking for but I would not use 12am or 12pm rather i would use noon or midnight. Simple answer

Oh man. If you were forced to either put "12am" or "12pm" due to the advertising companies policies (which you may not agree with, but that is beside the case), which one would you put? Anyway, I don't expect you to answer, but this was interesting nonetheless.

[ongchart]

12 am is MIDNIGHT

12 pm is NOON

PM means post meridiem... after the middle

AM means ante meridiem... before the middle

+1

Phuketjock is indeed confused

[utalkin2me]

I got another one for all you disbelievers. Go to the nearest digital device with an alarm, NO 24 hour devices allowed . Let's say you have to wake up at midnight tomorrow. Ok, now set the alarm. Did you set "12am" or "12pm"? If you set it for 12 pm, your alarm will go off 12 hours early. So, despite your misgivings, you will HAVE to set it to read "12am". Right?

I guess, unless you want to reverse the entire am's and pm's on your clock, that is.

Edited June 9, 2013 by utalkin2me

[phuketjock]

I changed my post to make the question more clear. So, which would you go with? Simple question

I am not sure what you are looking for but I would not use 12am or 12pm rather i would use noon or midnight. Simple answer

Oh man. If you were forced to either put "12am" or "12pm" due to the advertising companies policies (which you may not agree with, but that is beside the case), which one would you put? Anyway, I don't expect you to answer, but this was interesting nonetheless.

I would change my advertising company to one that did not force me to do anything I didn't want to especially when I am the

one paying.

[Maestro]

phuketjock, I suggest you make this easy on yourself. We agree that both the use of 12am and 12pm is incorrect. Take the first 100 websites or publications you can find that use 12pm in a manner that allows you to deduce whether they mean midday or midnight with that, then count how many times 12pm is used to mean midday an how many times to mean midnight. The repeat the same exercise with 12am. Finally, post the result here in this topic.

I start you off with this web page: http://www.worldtimebuddy.com/pst-to-cst-converter

[pomchop]

phuketjock, I suggest you make this easy on yourself. We agree that both the use of 12am and 12pm is incorrect. Take the first 100 websites or publications you can find that use 12pm in a manner that allows you to deduce whether they mean midday or midnight with that, then count how many times 12pm is used to mean midday an how many times to mean midnight. The repeat the same exercise with 12am. Finally, post the result here in this topic.

I start you off with this web page: http://www.worldtimebuddy.com/pst-to-cst-converter

I suspect that we are all wasting our time trying to convince the OP that he is completely and totally wrong when he says: " So please let me inform everyone that 12 AM is 12 O'clock midday and 12 PM is 12 O'clock midnight."

I also will be curious to see the results of his further investigation into how he seems to have it "right" and the rest of the world including the 100 websites you mention are all wrong.

OK it's close to midnight here....or 12 PM as the OP says so I am not sure whether I should go to sleep or go to lunch.

[smokie36]

So....is the pub open or not?

I'm confused.

[chrisinth]

Actually, the OP is technically correct. His quote was:

"So please let me inform everyone that 12 AM is 12 O'clock midday and 12 PM is 12 O'clock midnight.

If you insist on using the terms, which incidently don't actually mean anything, please use them correctly"

Midday. (Noon). This is the end of the 12 hour period which begins at 12:00:01AM (00:00:01 24 hour clock) To complete the full 12 hour cycle, it has to end at 12:00:00 which would equal 11:59:59AM + 1 second. So, this would be called 12:00:00AM, exactly 12 hours after midnight and would be valid for 1 second.

The same principle would also be valid for midnight if the 12 hour period started at 12:00:01PM (1 second after Midday) then the full 12 hour period would be 11:59:59PM + 1 second, which would be 12:00:00PM. This again would be valid for 1 second.

Hence the reason we know these times as Midday & Midnight to avoid this confusion, and why 24:00:00 is generally ignored in the 24 hour clock......................

You may have to read this a couple of times before it makes sense...................

[canman]

Yep. So 12:01, 1 minute after midnight is 12;01am and 12:01 in the day is 12:01pm. Correct.

I dont think telly shows get it wrong. I cant say Ive ever seen that happen.

Krisb To be pedantic 1 second after 12 Am ie. 12.00.01 PM is PM and 1 second after 12 PM ie. 12.00.01 AM is AM.

Asian Food Channel (AFC) gets it wrong everytime without exception.

If using the 24 hour clock, is midnight 0000 hrs or 2400 hrs?

Edited June 10, 2013 by canman

[rene123]

Try meeting a Thai or getting met by a Thai at an airport when the 12 O'clock is mentioned. I use 1 or 11 when arranging a meeting.

[overherebc]

Yep. So 12:01, 1 minute after midnight is 12;01am and 12:01 in the day is 12:01pm. Correct.

I dont think telly shows get it wrong. I cant say Ive ever seen that happen.

Krisb To be pedantic 1 second after 12 Am ie. 12.00.01 PM is PM and 1 second after 12 PM ie. 12.00.01 AM is AM.

Asian Food Channel (AFC) gets it wrong everytime without exception.

If using the 24 hour clock, is midnight 0000 hrs or 2400 hrs?

Yes ?

[puck2]

@Maestro

- #41........

Sorry to say, but you are wrong. You gave the link http://wwp.greenwich...m/info/noon.htm and nowhere on that page does it say

12 noon is 12am and midnight is 12 pm, nor does it give any indication that such can be assumed, derived, deduced or concluded

from the information on that page.

Applying logic to all this you would have to say that meridiem noon, ante meridiem = before noon, therefore one hour ante meridiem would have to be 1am = one hour before noon, but this is not how the anglosaxon world uses it. In the 24-hour system converted to the am/pm system the sequence is am --> noon --> pm --> midnight (http://wwp.greenwich...n-time/convert/).
As
you correctly quoted from the cited webpage, 12am and 12pm do not exist
and make no sense. However, since some people and some
publications do use 12am and 12pm, some sense had to be contrived for these terms and the Wikipedia page quoted by a member correctly reflects this as 12am = midnight and 12pm = noon.

.......

exactly my idea concerning the logic.

If a.m. means ante (=before) meridiem then 10 o'clock in the morning is 2 hours before meridiem (noon). But as we know

language isn't ever completely logical.

Therefore, to avoid any misunderstanding, I like

Tywais

- #29

Use 12 noon or 12 midnight - no ambiguity.

[phuketjock]

phuketjock, I suggest you make this easy on yourself. We agree that both the use of 12am and 12pm is incorrect. Take the first 100 websites or publications you can find that use 12pm in a manner that allows you to deduce whether they mean midday or midnight with that, then count how many times 12pm is used to mean midday an how many times to mean midnight. The repeat the same exercise with 12am. Finally, post the result here in this topic.

I start you off with this web page: http://www.worldtimebuddy.com/pst-to-cst-converter

I suspect that we are all wasting our time trying to convince the OP that he is completely and totally wrong when he says: " So please let me inform everyone that 12 AM is 12 O'clock midday and 12 PM is 12 O'clock midnight."

I also will be curious to see the results of his further investigation into how he seems to have it "right" and the rest of the world including the 100 websites you mention are all wrong.

OK it's close to midnight here....or 12 PM as the OP says so I am not sure whether I should go to sleep or go to lunch.

So by both you and Maestros logic even if the sky IS blue if 100 people say it is green and only 10 say it is blue then the sky must be green.

Yeah right ,even if several million people use 12am and 12pm wrongly, and it appears that they do, across the pond, that

does not mean that they are correct, hell they and the antipodians are mere infant nations.

[Maestro]

If using the 24 hour clock, is midnight 0000 hrs or 2400 hrs?

Yes ?

From Wikipedia with reference to ISO 8601:

Midnight is a special case and can be referred to as both "00:00" and "24:00". The notation "00:00" is used at the beginning of a calendar day and is the more frequently used. At the end of a day use "24:00". Note that "2007-04-05T24:00" is the same instant as "2007-04-06T00:00" (see Combined date and time representations below).

The 24-hour digital clocks I have use 00:00 for midnight and Wikpedia also mentions this use by digital clocks.

[Spoonman]

This is gunna wreak havoc on my bowel movements if AM is really PM and vice versa, hope I don't accidentally crap the bed trying to adjust.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Spoonman

[Maestro]

Incidentally, the ThaiVisa forum software uses 00:00 for midnight: