Gas Leak Kills New Zealand Engineer At Trang Power Plant

[Raybo]

RIP to both of them and condolences to their families.

It looks as they may have been in an enclosed area. Good procedures would require a gas sniffer

Alarm and compressed airpacks if toxic gases are expected. Of course hindsight is 20/20

[FarangTalk]

Obviously proper permit to work management systems are not in place or ignored nor were gas testings being performed by an authorised gas tester.

This is a serious allegation. You have evidence of this?

 

Perhaps if you provide a reference to an internationally accepted standard procedure, I can pass this on to the inspectorate team at the Energy Regulatory Commission and request that they investigate whether this particular licensee was in compliance?

The evidence is that two people are now dead.

Had the proper procedures been in place and adhered to this would not have happened and these two lives would not have needlessly been lost.

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Halion]

Very lucky that the number of fatalities was not higher because the hardest thing for people to understand is that rescue attempts without BA are often suicidal.

In a plant of this nature and bearing in mind that he had allready called for a full evacuation then why was he and his colleuage not wearing BA. There was no mention of rescue only that their re entry was to try to fix the problem. SCBA should have been a mandatory protocol.

I have worked in the chemical process industry for 30 years and any re entry in a gaseous environment, for any reason would have only been allowable with the provision of SCBA and a portable gas analyzer.

Sadly this loss of life seems due to a combination of the lack of protocol/procedure, ignorance and non compliance.

[RigPig]

Obviously proper permit to work management systems are not in place or ignored nor were gas testings being performed by an authorised gas tester.

This is a serious allegation. You have evidence of this?

Perhaps if you provide a reference to an internationally accepted standard procedure, I can pass this on to the inspectorate team at the Energy Regulatory Commission and request that they investigate whether this particular licensee was in compliance?

I work on oil rigs, if there had been a PTW system implemented (correctly, and someone would have signed it off) there would have been the necessary steps taken "in case" something went wrong.

You want documentation.....Attached

Haven't read it personally I go through enough of this in my work, but I'll bet it sets out some pretty basic safety procedures that would have / could have / should have prevented this poor guy(s) from dying whilst trying to save other people, the guys that died are heroes in my book, but it should never have happened!!!

Show me the Thai standards and or qualifications for electrical work, they don't even understand grounding (yes I am a sparky), so don't try to defend it, as I stated earlier it is a double edged sword. In this country (and others) human life is cheaper than implementing safety. Put up a show and cover it up.

It's ALL ABOUT MONEY !!

This would have been preventable and if an ex-pat hadn't been killed we would not be having this discussion.

189.pdf

[Soutpeel]

Obviously proper permit to work management systems are not in place or ignored nor were gas testings being performed by an authorised gas tester.

This is a serious allegation. You have evidence of this?

Perhaps if you provide a reference to an internationally accepted standard procedure, I can pass this on to the inspectorate team at the Energy Regulatory Commission and request that they investigate whether this particular licensee was in compliance?

The evidence is that two people are now dead.

Had the proper procedures been in place and adhered to this would not have happened and these two lives would not have needlessly been lost.

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

What job were they actually doing then ?...this would determine any procedural requirements, not all jobs have written procedures, not all jobs are controlled under permit to work systems etc...you are making some very big assumptions based on just about zero facts...

Using the rational you have outlined, you are suggesting that one needs a written procedure to operate a motor vehicle, and if some one is killed in an accident, had there been a procedure in place they wouldnt have been killed....seems to me many people are using terms like procedure and permit to work, not really understanding those systems...

Edited June 10, 2013 by Soutpeel

[Soutpeel]

I work on oil rigs, if there had been a PTW system implemented (correctly, and someone would have signed it off) there would have been the necessary steps taken "in case" something went wrong.

A bit like Piper Alpha you mean...that had a PTW system implemented and look how that turned out and shall we not forget the people that did survive that diaster didnt follow the rules...

Show me the Thai standards and or qualifications for electrical work, they don't even understand grounding (yes I am a sparky), so don't try to defend it, as I stated earlier it is a double edged sword. In this country (and others) human life is cheaper than implementing safety. Put up a show and cover it up.

I think your getting confused between domestic and industrial electrical standards (which there are in Thailand), granted the domestic side of things is a mess, but the industrial side is governed by internatonal standards and yes there are real Thai electricans working in Thai industry some very good ones who do understand grounding, the "electrians" you are referring wirinfg up houses are not real electricans...Thailand has some very good and highly skilled tradesmen, which the average farang will not ever come across who are working in Thai industry....I accept your making sweeping generalised statements...

Edited June 10, 2013 by Soutpeel

[OzMick]

Its not that the gas is toxic, its that there is no oxygen and persons become asphyxiated by the gases, knocked unconscious, and silently suffocate to death before anyone else knows what has happened.

Not necessarily. CO (carbon monoxide) will kill you even if sufficient oxygen present - it bonds to the red blood cells and prevents oxygen uptake (?? AFAIRemember). Bad stuff, and quite possible the problem here.

[overherebc]

In all honesty lads stop quessing and assuming.

It's tragic that two people died.

[GentlemanJim]

Very lucky that the number of fatalities was not higher because the hardest thing for people to understand is that rescue attempts without BA are often suicidal.

In a plant of this nature and bearing in mind that he had allready called for a full evacuation then why was he and his colleuage not wearing BA. There was no mention of rescue only that their re entry was to try to fix the problem. SCBA should have been a mandatory protocol.

I have worked in the chemical process industry for 30 years and any re entry in a gaseous environment, for any reason would have only been allowable with the provision of SCBA and a portable gas analyzer.

Sadly this loss of life seems due to a combination of the lack of protocol/procedure, ignorance and non compliance.

A plant of what nature? Guys, this was a wood factory that mainly exported wood/planks etc abroad. The OP is completely incorrect in its description of the place and time this incident took place.

[Crazy chef 1]

Obviously proper permit to work management systems are not in place or ignored nor were gas testings being performed by an authorised gas tester.

You have to be extremely careful when working in these kinds of environments in Thailand, often the most basic safety procedures are either not in place or ignored.

RIP to the two victims.

...or as usually " loom( forgot) but Mai bpen rai! Edited June 10, 2013 by Crazy chef 1

[OzMick]

Very lucky that the number of fatalities was not higher because the hardest thing for people to understand is that rescue attempts without BA are often suicidal.

In a plant of this nature and bearing in mind that he had allready called for a full evacuation then why was he and his colleuage not wearing BA. There was no mention of rescue only that their re entry was to try to fix the problem. SCBA should have been a mandatory protocol.

I have worked in the chemical process industry for 30 years and any re entry in a gaseous environment, for any reason would have only been allowable with the provision of SCBA and a portable gas analyzer.

Sadly this loss of life seems due to a combination of the lack of protocol/procedure, ignorance and non compliance.

A plant of what nature? Guys, this was a wood factory that mainly exported wood/planks etc abroad. The OP is completely incorrect in its description of the place and time this incident took plac

Jim, it doesn't matter what the process is, the basic OHS rules remain the same. If somebody (or more than one) collapses from a suspected gas leak, the natural urge to rush in and help has to be overcome until BA is available. People think they can hold their breath, but it is total BS. All you do is increase the number of casualties, as happened here.

I was on a site where 3 industrial chemists died one after the other in a dam base tunnel. People who should know better entered a gas-filled confined space trying to help the 1st victim. The 4th guy radioed for help, but was psychologically traumatised watching his friends die and knowing to attempt to help would end his own life.

[Tep]

The evidence is that two people are now dead.

Had the proper procedures been in place and adhered to this would not have happened and these two lives would not have needlessly been lost.

The Energy industry in Thailand is a serious industry, with serious people working in it and this is a serious incident. Unfounded allegations and gross misrepresentations are not appropriate. Better for the facts to be revealed through proper processes and then if there are lessons to be learned, then better that the two people who unfortunately perished are honoured by changes to prevent this happening to others in the future.

[Tep]

Show me the Thai standards and or qualifications for electrical work, they don't even understand grounding (yes I am a sparky), so don't try to defend it, as I stated earlier it is a double edged sword. In this country (and others) human life is cheaper than implementing safety. Put up a show and cover it up.

I note that the Permit to Work regulations that you provided are industry based and not regulations imposed by a government authority. You will probably know that there are various levels of regulations from primary laws, through secondary regulations and then industry codes. I do not work on the technical/safety regulatory side so I am not familiar with the regulations and codes in place. I do know that under the Energy Industry Act 2007, responsibility for technical and safety regulation is with the Energy Regulatory Commission. The ERC will have utilised existing codes developed by the state utilities (EGAT, MEA and PEA) and it is likely that specific codes would remain the responsibility of industry associations and this governed by the ERC.

The standards may or may not be published for public view but they will be included in the documentation set up between the power producer and the power purchaser (generally EGAT but also MEA and PEA for very small, renewable projects under 10 MW capacity). This documentation includes the power purchase agreements and standards for connection to and use of the network.

I would tend to think that the function of the regulator is to ensure that safety procedures are in place and adhere to the principles in the primary law (EIA 2007) but that the details of these codes should be developed and managed by the industry. The ERC alerted this incident in Trang on its Facebook and Twitter sites and ERC will have an interest in ensuring it is investigated. I will pass the PTW document to the Power Generation Inspector team for their information. I also think that the Private Power Producers Association of Thailand may have some role in developing or, if already developed, monitoring the implementation of any industry codes relating to safety procedures.

If this incident was caused by an absence of effective codes or the improper implementation of such Codes, then I believe that a proper investigation can help strengthen the safety procedures in the industry in the future. The people I know in the industry are conscious of the importance that energy plays in the development of the country and the benefit to the citizens. They do not hold life cheaply and would be very concerned to make sure that industry practices are improved as a result of this tragic incident.

[GentlemanJim]

Tep

. The ERC alerted this incident in Trang on its Facebook and Twitter sites

Where did they do that? Nothing mentioned on either of their Facebook sites, one is dormant the other only started 7 hours ago.

Edited June 10, 2013 by GentlemanJim

[Soutpeel]

Show me the Thai standards and or qualifications for electrical work, they don't even understand grounding (yes I am a sparky), so don't try to defend it, as I stated earlier it is a double edged sword. In this country (and others) human life is cheaper than implementing safety. Put up a show and cover it up.

I note that the Permit to Work regulations that you provided are industry based and not regulations imposed by a government authority. You will probably know that there are various levels of regulations from primary laws, through secondary regulations and then industry codes. I do not work on the technical/safety regulatory side so I am not familiar with the regulations and codes in place. I do know that under the Energy Industry Act 2007, responsibility for technical and safety regulation is with the Energy Regulatory Commission. The ERC will have utilised existing codes developed by the state utilities (EGAT, MEA and PEA) and it is likely that specific codes would remain the responsibility of industry associations and this governed by the ERC.

The standards may or may not be published for public view but they will be included in the documentation set up between the power producer and the power purchaser (generally EGAT but also MEA and PEA for very small, renewable projects under 10 MW capacity). This documentation includes the power purchase agreements and standards for connection to and use of the network.

I would tend to think that the function of the regulator is to ensure that safety procedures are in place and adhere to the principles in the primary law (EIA 2007) but that the details of these codes should be developed and managed by the industry. The ERC alerted this incident in Trang on its Facebook and Twitter sites and ERC will have an interest in ensuring it is investigated. I will pass the PTW document to the Power Generation Inspector team for their information. I also think that the Private Power Producers Association of Thailand may have some role in developing or, if already developed, monitoring the implementation of any industry codes relating to safety procedures.

If this incident was caused by an absence of effective codes or the improper implementation of such Codes, then I believe that a proper investigation can help strengthen the safety procedures in the industry in the future. The people I know in the industry are conscious of the importance that energy plays in the development of the country and the benefit to the citizens. They do not hold life cheaply and would be very concerned to make sure that industry practices are improved as a result of this tragic incident.

the PTW "regulations" document you refer to are not regulations, but guidelines for the use of PTW systems and a method of assessment of the effectiveness of a specfic PTW system implementation.

Also note this document is from 1993 and therefore will not be the most upto date document anyway

EGAT will already have similar systems in place, but as you have already correctly stated this incident requires a full investigation and the specific root causes established.

The fact is no one on TV knows exactly what the guys concerned were doing or the events which led up to this incident or even if a PTW was even required...as stated in the guide line " A PTW system is formal written system used to control certain types of work"...not all job tasks fall under a PTW ie Routine operator tasks typically do not fall under a PTW system, and there numerous other examples in the specific industry the document refers to ie Oil and Gas.

Al that has happened on this thread is that certain indivduals who dont fully understand permiting systems or procedural requirements relevant to a specific industry have jumped up on soap box spouting on about PTW and procedures in industry in Thailand and one assumes these indivduals have no experience in Thailand, as to what exactly in place or what the legal requirements are in an attempt to perpetuate a myth that all Thai industry is dangerous and the mangement of these industries dont care about their employees and are in fact imcompentant idiots who know nothing...

For those who actually work in industry in Thailand, myself included, can tell you the reality is different, from the "bar stool" talk put forward on TV.

Certainly in the industry I am in, the safety standards in Thailand are as good as, if not better in some respects than some of the places I have worked in, in so called 1st world countries..

[HarryMilton]

Its not that the gas is toxic, its that there is no oxygen and persons become asphyxiated by the gases, knocked unconscious, and silently suffocate to death before anyone else knows what has happened.

So what is a toxic gas then?

[RigPig]

Show me the Thai standards and or qualifications for electrical work, they don't even understand grounding (yes I am a sparky), so don't try to defend it, as I stated earlier it is a double edged sword. In this country (and others) human life is cheaper than implementing safety. Put up a show and cover it up.

I note that the Permit to Work regulations that you provided are industry based and not regulations imposed by a government authority. You will probably know that there are various levels of regulations from primary laws, through secondary regulations and then industry codes. I do not work on the technical/safety regulatory side so I am not familiar with the regulations and codes in place. I do know that under the Energy Industry Act 2007, responsibility for technical and safety regulation is with the Energy Regulatory Commission. The ERC will have utilised existing codes developed by the state utilities (EGAT, MEA and PEA) and it is likely that specific codes would remain the responsibility of industry associations and this governed by the ERC.

The standards may or may not be published for public view but they will be included in the documentation set up between the power producer and the power purchaser (generally EGAT but also MEA and PEA for very small, renewable projects under 10 MW capacity). This documentation includes the power purchase agreements and standards for connection to and use of the network.

I would tend to think that the function of the regulator is to ensure that safety procedures are in place and adhere to the principles in the primary law (EIA 2007) but that the details of these codes should be developed and managed by the industry. The ERC alerted this incident in Trang on its Facebook and Twitter sites and ERC will have an interest in ensuring it is investigated. I will pass the PTW document to the Power Generation Inspector team for their information. I also think that the Private Power Producers Association of Thailand may have some role in developing or, if already developed, monitoring the implementation of any industry codes relating to safety procedures.

If this incident was caused by an absence of effective codes or the improper implementation of such Codes, then I believe that a proper investigation can help strengthen the safety procedures in the industry in the future. The people I know in the industry are conscious of the importance that energy plays in the development of the country and the benefit to the citizens. They do not hold life cheaply and would be very concerned to make sure that industry practices are improved as a result of this tragic incident.

the PTW "regulations" document you refer to are not regulations, but guidelines for the use of PTW systems and a method of assessment of the effectiveness of a specfic PTW system implementation.

Also note this document is from 1993 and therefore will not be the most upto date document anyway

EGAT will already have similar systems in place, but as you have already correctly stated this incident requires a full investigation and the specific root causes established.

The fact is no one on TV knows exactly what the guys concerned were doing or the events which led up to this incident or even if a PTW was even required...as stated in the guide line " A PTW system is formal written system used to control certain types of work"...not all job tasks fall under a PTW ie Routine operator tasks typically do not fall under a PTW system, and there numerous other examples in the specific industry the document refers to ie Oil and Gas.

Al that has happened on this thread is that certain indivduals who dont fully understand permiting systems or procedural requirements relevant to a specific industry have jumped up on soap box spouting on about PTW and procedures in industry in Thailand and one assumes these indivduals have no experience in Thailand, as to what exactly in place or what the legal requirements are in an attempt to perpetuate a myth that all Thai industry is dangerous and the mangement of these industries dont care about their employees and are in fact imcompentant idiots who know nothing...

For those who actually work in industry in Thailand, myself included, can tell you the reality is different, from the "bar stool" talk put forward on TV.

Certainly in the industry I am in, the safety standards in Thailand are as good as, if not better in some respects than some of the places I have worked in, in so called 1st world countries..

Good stuff Soutpeel and Tep

However my company has these things in place for even office workers (I don't know maybe they could pull a filing cabinet on top of them). The whole purpose of this is safety, and the reason we hold tool box meetings and such (and they are documented) are probably more to do with relieving the company of liability. However if it saves one life.......

Stupid common sense things count, don't touch someone who is being electrocuted, don't jump in to the river your friend is drowning in (I am sure you get the idea). Proper pre task assessments are designed to prevent these things.

Off subject a bit, so you are saying Thailand has standards regarding electricity as far as industry here is concerned but not for the common population (households and small businesses)? What is up with that? Life is cheap I guess, it's the only thing that doesn't cost money to make.

Please feel free to PM me, this is not an attempt to rubbish what happens here, just an attempt to understand. I (as you probably are too) just wonder why more people aren't killed here because of lack of training and some sort of governance.

You are probably the only people I have had contact with that has some understanding of it.

Cheers

RigPig

[Tep]

Where did they do that? Nothing mentioned on either of their Facebook sites, one is dormant the other only started 7 hours ago.

ERC is listed as 'Energy Regulator' on Facebook. The link is below. The alert is posted in their newsfeed and was timed around 2 or 3 pm on Monday 10th. The link leads to a short article in Thai. The newsfeed headline translates to something like 'Biomass Power Plant ammonia leak kills foreign engineer and worker in Trang'.

https://www.facebook.com/energy.regulator?hc_location=timeline

[Tep]

I (as you probably are too) just wonder why more people aren't killed here because of lack of training and some sort of governance.

I plan to ask around about how this incident will be investigated. It would be best to wait until more information is available but I agree that you identify important issues. Even if Codes exist, training, monitoring, reporting, accountability are all important issues. They also need to be actively managed. People familiar with industry practices can probably relate all sorts of anecdotes but in my experience, industry professionals in Thailand strive to achieve international standards. Most of the decision makers and people of influence in the state owned elements of the industry are engineers from the same school and have a very strong tradition of excellence. But it is a complex system that needs constant attention, even in developed countries with sophisticated and long standing procedures.

[webfact]

UPDATE:
Biomass plant gas leak kills 2, injures 2
Methee Muangkaew
The Nation

TRANG: -- A gas leak at a biomass power plant in Trang's Yan Ta Khao district killed a New Zealand engineer and a Thai staff member yesterday and critically injured two workers.

After the gas leak at around 12.10am, the system control engineer identified as Michael Kogsin, 36, and Thai worker Rod Singkham, 31, died after inhaling the toxic gas.

Two of three workers who rushed to rescue the duo were seriously injured by the gas.

The two men died of respiratory problems from inhaling toxic gas believed to be ammonia. Their bodies were found on the three-storey-high ventilation chimney's second floor. The two men reportedly were trying to reach and rescue a Thai couple who passed out from gas inhalation in the chimney, said Pol Lieutenant Chalongchai Chapan.

The unconscious couple, later identified as Chalit Somnok, 38, and wife Pornsin Somnok, 31, were later pulled to safety by other employees of the biomass plant.

The biomass plant, which was in the process of having a control system installed, was Paraveneer 2002 Co's project to use rubber-tree chips and sawdust, as well as agricultural waste from the local area, to produce electricity.

The 5 megawatts of electricity it plans to generate are to be sold to the Electricity Generating Authority of Thailand.


-- The Nation 2013-06-11

[Scott]

Posts with messed up quotes have been deleted. Please take care to make sure that your post is not made inside the quote of another poster.

[juggernaut]

<deleted>. Nation = fail! Nation identifies the Kiwi accident victim as Michael Kogsin, 36......... twice. Their updated release identifies the Thai victim as Thai worker Rod Singkham, 31 while the first release identifies the Thai victim as Chavalit Somnok, 37, a system control officer from Buri Ram province.

I am more inclined to believe One News from NZ who identify the Kiwi accident victim as Michael Paul Coppins, 51 Links to their news releases below.

http://tvnz.co.nz/world-news/nz-engineer-killed-in-thai-rescue-attempt-5460686

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/family-proud-yet-heartbroken-after-man-dies-saving-couple-5461105

I mean really? Is the Nation ever going to be interested in actually releasing news that is accurate.

[Time Traveller]

I work on oil rigs, if there had been a PTW system implemented (correctly, and someone would have signed it off) there would have been the necessary steps taken "in case" something went wrong.

A bit like Piper Alpha you mean...that had a PTW system implemented and look how that turned out and shall we not forget the people that did survive that diaster didnt follow the rules...

Show me the Thai standards and or qualifications for electrical work, they don't even understand grounding (yes I am a sparky), so don't try to defend it, as I stated earlier it is a double edged sword. In this country (and others) human life is cheaper than implementing safety. Put up a show and cover it up.

I think your getting confused between domestic and industrial electrical standards (which there are in Thailand), granted the domestic side of things is a mess, but the industrial side is governed by internatonal standards and yes there are real Thai electricans working in Thai industry some very good ones who do understand grounding, the "electrians" you are referring wirinfg up houses are not real electricans...Thailand has some very good and highly skilled tradesmen, which the average farang will not ever come across who are working in Thai industry....I accept your making sweeping generalised statements...

Well I worked for a few years in a Bangkok office tower - built in 2008 - where the building electricity shorted out every time there was a downpour of rain. So if there is any "very good and highly skilled tradesmen" in thailand, they are certainly in short supply.

BTW, does anyone know the plant name or the company where this happened?

[juggernaut]

It appears to have been at Plan Creations factory in Thung Krabue, Trang

[harrry]

Obviously proper permit to work management systems are not in place or ignored nor were gas testings being performed by an authorised gas tester.

This is a serious allegation. You have evidence of this?

Perhaps if you provide a reference to an internationally accepted standard procedure, I can pass this on to the inspectorate team at the Energy Regulatory Commission and request that they investigate whether this particular licensee was in compliance?

The evidence is that two people are now dead.

Had the proper procedures been in place and adhered to this would not have happened and these two lives would not have needlessly been lost.

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

What job were they actually doing then ?...this would determine any procedural requirements, not all jobs have written procedures, not all jobs are controlled under permit to work systems etc...you are making some very big assumptions based on just about zero facts...

Using the rational you have outlined, you are suggesting that one needs a written procedure to operate a motor vehicle, and if some one is killed in an accident, had there been a procedure in place they wouldnt have been killed....seems to me many people are using terms like procedure and permit to work, not really understanding those systems...

There is a written procedure to operate a Motor Vehicle....a combination of the Road Code and the Vehicle Standards including the Vehicle Owner's handbook which is supposed to be provided with it. There is also a permit to work. A driver's licence.

Edited June 11, 2013 by harrry

[webfact]

Gas leak at Trang biomass plant under probe
By English News



TRANG, June 11 – Thai police continued their investigation into a gas leak at a biomass power plant which killed a New Zealand engineer and a Thai employee in this southern province early yesterday morning.

Trang governor Tirayuth Eiamtrakul led industrial engineers and related officials to inspect Para Veneer 2002 Co in Yan Ta Khao district where a gas production facility with a production capacity of five megawatts was under construction.

The ammonia gas leaked during an engine test on Sunday night.

New Zealand chief engineer Michael Paul Coppins and a Thai employee, Rod Singkham, died as they tried to help six employees injured in the incident.

An initial report said the toxic gas originated from an engine and passed through a 15-metre-high ventilation tower.

Para Veneer management said it would take full responsibility for the casualties. (MCOT online news)


-- TNA 2013-06-11

[OzMick]

I certainly know what PTW is, having worked on all facets of them for nearly 30 years, and that includes risk assessment, safety isolations, preparing and issuing, and working under them in confined spaces and hazardous environments.

So I have to ask why are there 7 people (now 8) inside the vent system of what was initially reported as an operating plant, where are the BA sets, safety men, retrieval harnesses and SOP to NOT rush into a gas leak?

Edited June 11, 2013 by OzMick

[johnlandy]

Too sad !! OHSA would require a Respirator in USA. Guess Thailand does not have an OHSA.

Well you guessed wrong..

Thailand may have a regulatory body BUT they do not have OSHA as known & recognised by HSES professionals worldwide.

[Soutpeel]

as you probably are too) just wonder why more people aren't killed here because of lack of training and some sort of governance.

Let me answer that question by turning the question around, why is it people are still killed in those countries where there is rigid goverence, robust "paperwork" and people have been trained ?

The UK has some of the strictest safety nazi's in the world ie in the form of the Health & Safety Executive but yet every year people are killed/maimed in industry in the UK (mainly the construction industry)

The perception a lot of people have including many "safety professionals" is that paperwork safety systems only make things safer...no they dont, paper work safety processes are only one of the tools used to make things safer.

The typical thing that happens when an incident occurs is to create "another bit of paper" and the root cause of the incident is not properly addressed, or as you know in Oil & gas they attempt to ban some inamimate object which "caused" the incident...ie things like trying to ban tooth picks offshore cos there dangerous..

In Oil and Gas we hear the term "no blame polcies" when it comes to safety and incidents, and a lot of companies say we dont want to blame anybody, but understand what happened...my response is BS...the primary purpose of these investigations IS to put the blame on somebody, preferably someone who is a sub-contractor...

Although it sounds very cliched, the term "you are responsible for your own safety" is very true, I have stood by this concept for years and I have walked away from jobs which in my opinion were too dangerous to get involved with, I would rather loose a job than loose my life becasue of what some idiot is doing.

[Soutpeel]

I certainly know what PTW is, having worked on all facets of them for nearly 30 years, and that includes risk assessment, safety isolations, preparing and issuing, and working under them in confined spaces and hazardous environments.

So I have to ask why are there 7 people (now 8) inside the vent system of what was initially reported as an operating plant, where are the BA sets, safety men, retrieval harnesses and SOP to NOT rush into a gas leak?

According the the report above "where a gas production facility with a production capacity of five megawatts was under construction"

It wasnt an operating plant but under construction, although what you have stated for operating plant is correct, the same rules may not be required during construction, based on this latest report sounds like construction/commissioning was on-going

suppose one question is what is Ammonia being used for ?...not a very pleasant substance to be around