Nsa Contractor Identifies Himself As Source

[JDGRUEN]

Eric Markowitz | Inc.com staff

Jun 17, 2013

Edward Snowden: 'Truth Is Coming and It Cannot Be Stopped'

In a live online chat, NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden is answering questions about the PRISM scandal.

"All I can say right now is the U.S. government is not going to be able to cover this up by jailing or murdering me," Snowden writes. "Truth is coming and it cannot be stopped."

http://www.inc.com/eric-markowitz/edward-snowden-truth-is-coming-and-it-cannot-be-stopped.html

[lannarebirth]

Eric Markowitz | Inc.com staff

Jun 17, 2013

Edward Snowden: 'Truth Is Coming and It Cannot Be Stopped'

In a live online chat, NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden is answering questions about the PRISM scandal.

"All I can say right now is the U.S. government is not going to be able to cover this up by jailing or murdering me," Snowden writes. "Truth is coming and it cannot be stopped."

http://www.inc.com/eric-markowitz/edward-snowden-truth-is-coming-and-it-cannot-be-stopped.html

Only an extremist would not be grateful for the revelations brought about by this young man. I wouldn't call him a hero, nor would I call him a narcissist or traitor. He certainly is brave though and I consider him a patriot. Would that there were more like him.

[lannarebirth]

I suppose the people who find their morality (relative) in polling data may still cling to their partisanship on these issues, but in my mind that makes them extremists.

You don't need to be a weatherman to know which way the wind blows:

Edited June 17, 2013 by lannarebirth

[Publicus]

Eric Markowitz | Inc.com staff

Jun 17, 2013

Edward Snowden: 'Truth Is Coming and It Cannot Be Stopped'

In a live online chat, NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden is answering questions about the PRISM scandal.

"All I can say right now is the U.S. government is not going to be able to cover this up by jailing or murdering me," Snowden writes. "Truth is coming and it cannot be stopped."

http://www.inc.com/eric-markowitz/edward-snowden-truth-is-coming-and-it-cannot-be-stopped.html

Only an extremist would not be grateful for the revelations brought about by this young man. I wouldn't call him a hero, nor would I call him a narcissist or traitor. He certainly is brave though and I consider him a patriot. Would that there were more like him.

56% of Americans support NSA doing phone surveillance as long it's for the purposes of national security against terrorism and terrorists.

If a president won election with 56% of the vote we'd call it a whopping landslide victory. So 56% of Americans agreeing on anything is a red letter day on the calendar. The U.S. political center-middle has expanded to an even larger majority on this particular issue.

Americans support phone surveillance programs

http://blog.beaumontenterprise.com/bayou/2013/06/11/majority-of-americans-support-phone-surveillence-programs/

[F430murci]

Eric Markowitz | Inc.com staff

Jun 17, 2013

Edward Snowden: 'Truth Is Coming and It Cannot Be Stopped'

In a live online chat, NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden is answering questions about the PRISM scandal.

"All I can say right now is the U.S. government is not going to be able to cover this up by jailing or murdering me," Snowden writes. "Truth is coming and it cannot be stopped."

http://www.inc.com/eric-markowitz/edward-snowden-truth-is-coming-and-it-cannot-be-stopped.html

Only an extremist would not be grateful for the revelations brought about by this young man. I wouldn't call him a hero, nor would I call him a narcissist or traitor. He certainly is brave though and I consider him a patriot. Would that there were more like him.

56% of Americans support NSA doing phone surveillance as long it's for the purposes of national security against terrorism and terrorists.

If a president won election with 56% of the vote we'd call it a whopping landslide victory. So 56% of Americans agreeing on anything is a red letter day on the calendar. The U.S. political center-middle has expanded to an even larger majority on this particular issue.

Americans support phone surveillance programs

http://blog.beaumontenterprise.com/bayou/2013/06/11/majority-of-americans-support-phone-surveillence-programs/

I have to say this is where we part paths. 60% of that 56% does not their butt from a hole in the ground when it comes to the 4th amendment implications and the slippery slope we are on. That 60% of the 56 % are like yeah, terrorist, we need to stop those comi bastards . . . Other than that, they haven't got a clue.

Candidly, this is a bipartisan issue and we have a bunch of under achieving wusses in congress that pays lip service to what ever is getting the media attention da jour. This 4th Amendment erosion issue has been ongoing since 2002 ish and in full speed ahead since 2005. Nothing has really changed and no one really whines or cares until the media spot light hits it and then, like a bunch of rodents, everyone runs for cover.

[lannarebirth]

Eric Markowitz | Inc.com staff

Jun 17, 2013

Edward Snowden: 'Truth Is Coming and It Cannot Be Stopped'

In a live online chat, NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden is answering questions about the PRISM scandal.

"All I can say right now is the U.S. government is not going to be able to cover this up by jailing or murdering me," Snowden writes. "Truth is coming and it cannot be stopped."

http://www.inc.com/eric-markowitz/edward-snowden-truth-is-coming-and-it-cannot-be-stopped.html

Only an extremist would not be grateful for the revelations brought about by this young man. I wouldn't call him a hero, nor would I call him a narcissist or traitor. He certainly is brave though and I consider him a patriot. Would that there were more like him.

56% of Americans support NSA doing phone surveillance as long it's for the purposes of national security against terrorism and terrorists.

If a president won election with 56% of the vote we'd call it a whopping landslide victory. So 56% of Americans agreeing on anything is a red letter day on the calendar. The U.S. political center-middle has expanded to an even larger majority on this particular issue.

Americans support phone surveillance programs

http://blog.beaumontenterprise.com/bayou/2013/06/11/majority-of-americans-support-phone-surveillence-programs/

I have to say this is where we part paths. 60% of that 56% does not their butt from a hole in the ground when it comes to the 4th amendment implications and the slippery slope we are on. That 60% of the 56 % are like yeah, terrorist, we need to stop those comi bastards . . . Other than that, they haven't got a clue.

Candidly, this is a bipartisan issue and we have a bunch of under achieving wusses in congress that pays lip service to what ever is getting the media attention da jour. This 4th Amendment erosion issue has been ongoing since 2002 ish and in full speed ahead since 2005. Nothing has really changed and no one really whines or cares until the media spot light hits it and then, like a bunch of rodents, everyone runs for cover.

Would any of this have come into the public's conscienciousness but for Edward Snowden? I doubt it very much. He is a whistleblower in the great tradition IMO. Had he stayed in the US HE'D have become the story with all the character assasination that goes along with it. I absolutely do not see him moving offshore to be cowardly in any fashion.

[F430murci]

Only an extremist would not be grateful for the revelations brought about by this young man. I wouldn't call him a hero, nor would I call him a narcissist or traitor. He certainly is brave though and I consider him a patriot. Would that there were more like him.

56% of Americans support NSA doing phone surveillance as long it's for the purposes of national security against terrorism and terrorists.

If a president won election with 56% of the vote we'd call it a whopping landslide victory. So 56% of Americans agreeing on anything is a red letter day on the calendar. The U.S. political center-middle has expanded to an even larger majority on this particular issue.

Americans support phone surveillance programs

http://blog.beaumontenterprise.com/bayou/2013/06/11/majority-of-americans-support-phone-surveillence-programs/

I have to say this is where we part paths. 60% of that 56% does not their butt from a hole in the ground when it comes to the 4th amendment implications and the slippery slope we are on. That 60% of the 56 % are like yeah, terrorist, we need to stop those comi bastards . . . Other than that, they haven't got a clue.

Candidly, this is a bipartisan issue and we have a bunch of under achieving wusses in congress that pays lip service to what ever is getting the media attention da jour. This 4th Amendment erosion issue has been ongoing since 2002 ish and in full speed ahead since 2005. Nothing has really changed and no one really whines or cares until the media spot light hits it and then, like a bunch of rodents, everyone runs for cover.

Would any of this have come into the public's conscienciousness but for Edward Snowden? I doubt it very much. He is a whistleblower in the great tradition IMO. Had he stayed in the US HE'D have become the story with all the character assasination that goes along with it. I absolutely do not see him moving offshore to be cowardly in any fashion.

I don't know. I don't think any of this is a huge revelation. I tend to think a lot of people knew this, but may or may not have known the extent, complexity or had proof.

I guarantee a lot of people, the vast majority, on Capital Hill knew and knew the extent. As I said, they are a bunch of under achieving wusses that run for cover and act all innocent whenever anything hits the fan or becomes a media circus.

As far as Snowden, the jury is out on him. Perhaps he had nothing but honorable motivations. Perhaps he didn't. Do I think it is a good thing he made this noise? Yes. Could it have been politically motivated? Interesting timing with AP stuff and etc. I, however, don't know or really care about motivations or politics of it.

The sad part is I doubt anything can or will be done and it will continue. The Patriot Act opened the door and many court decisions have followed suit.

[lannarebirth]

Only an extremist would not be grateful for the revelations brought about by this young man. I wouldn't call him a hero, nor would I call him a narcissist or traitor. He certainly is brave though and I consider him a patriot. Would that there were more like him.

I have to say this is where we part paths. 60% of that 56% does not their butt from a hole in the ground when it comes to the 4th amendment implications and the slippery slope we are on. That 60% of the 56 % are like yeah, terrorist, we need to stop those comi bastards . . . Other than that, they haven't got a clue.

Candidly, this is a bipartisan issue and we have a bunch of under achieving wusses in congress that pays lip service to what ever is getting the media attention da jour. This 4th Amendment erosion issue has been ongoing since 2002 ish and in full speed ahead since 2005. Nothing has really changed and no one really whines or cares until the media spot light hits it and then, like a bunch of rodents, everyone runs for cover.

Would any of this have come into the public's conscienciousness but for Edward Snowden? I doubt it very much. He is a whistleblower in the great tradition IMO. Had he stayed in the US HE'D have become the story with all the character assasination that goes along with it. I absolutely do not see him moving offshore to be cowardly in any fashion.

I don't know. I don't think any of this is a huge revelation. I tend to think a lot of people knew this, but may or may not have known the extent, complexity or had proof.

I guarantee a lot of people, the vast majority, on Capital Hill knew and knew the extent. As I said, they are a bunch of under achieving wusses that run for cover and act all innocent whenever anything hits the fan or becomes a media circus.

As far as Snowden, the jury is out on him. Perhaps he had nothing but honorable motivations. Perhaps he didn't. Do I think it is a good thing he made this noise? Yes. Could it have been politically motivated? Interesting timing with AP stuff and etc. I, however, don't know or really care about motivations or politics of it.

The sad part is I doubt anything can or will be done and it will continue. The Patriot Act opened the door and many court decisions have followed suit.

Snowden of course is just a bit player in all this, sure. The real thing is the secret court. What records that have surfaced indicate it is merely a rubber stamp for overreaching agencies who can characterize threats in any manner they choose to increase chances of a favorable decision. There IS some evidence of pushback:

http://www.businessinsider.com/nsa-spying-4th-amendment-2012-8

but of course it's all secret. You say your a lawyer so maybe you can answer me this. As far as i know courts in the US work on an adversarial basis with lawyers advocating the interests of their client before an inpartial court. How'd this FISA court end up with no advocate for the citizenry?

[F430murci]

I have to say this is where we part paths. 60% of that 56% does not their butt from a hole in the ground when it comes to the 4th amendment implications and the slippery slope we are on. That 60% of the 56 % are like yeah, terrorist, we need to stop those comi bastards . . . Other than that, they haven't got a clue.

Candidly, this is a bipartisan issue and we have a bunch of under achieving wusses in congress that pays lip service to what ever is getting the media attention da jour. This 4th Amendment erosion issue has been ongoing since 2002 ish and in full speed ahead since 2005. Nothing has really changed and no one really whines or cares until the media spot light hits it and then, like a bunch of rodents, everyone runs for cover.

Would any of this have come into the public's conscienciousness but for Edward Snowden? I doubt it very much. He is a whistleblower in the great tradition IMO. Had he stayed in the US HE'D have become the story with all the character assasination that goes along with it. I absolutely do not see him moving offshore to be cowardly in any fashion.

I don't know. I don't think any of this is a huge revelation. I tend to think a lot of people knew this, but may or may not have known the extent, complexity or had proof.

I guarantee a lot of people, the vast majority, on Capital Hill knew and knew the extent. As I said, they are a bunch of under achieving wusses that run for cover and act all innocent whenever anything hits the fan or becomes a media circus.

As far as Snowden, the jury is out on him. Perhaps he had nothing but honorable motivations. Perhaps he didn't. Do I think it is a good thing he made this noise? Yes. Could it have been politically motivated? Interesting timing with AP stuff and etc. I, however, don't know or really care about motivations or politics of it.

The sad part is I doubt anything can or will be done and it will continue. The Patriot Act opened the door and many court decisions have followed suit.

Snowden of course is just a bit player in all this, sure. The real thing is the secret court. What records that have surfaced indicate it is merely a rubber stamp for overreaching agencies who can characterize threats in any manner they choose to increase chances of a favorable decision. There IS some evidence of pushback:

http://www.businessinsider.com/nsa-spying-4th-amendment-2012-8

but of course it's all secret. You say your a lawyer so maybe you can answer me this. As far as i know courts in the US work on an adversarial basis with lawyers advocating the interests of their client before an inpartial court. How'd this FISA court end up with no advocate for the citizenry?

I am civil and never dealt with criminal issues. My guess is there is a warrant process and federal courts are all courts of record meaning court reporter takes down everything said in open court even if just a status or scheduling conference. Perhaps if a matter of security that could cause public or private harm, they could have special judges set up to review info and issue authorization or warrants off public record. I dunno. Seems like could be done under seal in Federal Court. It also wouldn't be so secret if someone like me knew about it. Issuance of warrants is not adversarial per se n that the person impacted gets to show up and dispute. You might get a better answer about warrant stuff from Google than from someone like me that has never handled a criminal case in their life. Edited June 17, 2013 by F430murci

[lannarebirth]

, Edward Snowden, who currently is in a Hong Kong safehouse under the care and feeding of the Chinese Communist Party. (Have you donated to his legal expenses fund yet?)

I haven't read that about his defecting to the Chinese Communist Party and that they are caring for and feeding him. Could you post some credible evidence of that? Thanks

If he does set up a legal defense fund I would donate to it but if the commies have him as you say, I doubt he would be extraditable, so it's a moot point. I have also donated to the ACLU which is suing the Obama administration over the constitutionality of the US government's surveillance program.

[F430murci]

I dislike this stuff very much, but I question whether anything can ever be done. This stuff is set in motion and it seems to me to be an issue for Federal Courts and the Supremes, both if which have already endorsed or rubber stamped too much erosion io the 4th. You guys bash me for whining about the Bush appointments, but our current Court will be 5-4 now on these issues assuming Scalia hold ground and refuses to erode the 4th (6-3 if not). Breyer may be viewed as a liberal, but not so much on criminal issues.

The problem is judges and courts somewhere have deemed this acceptable. Secret or not. Perhaps the secret is just courts set up that are not public record. Not sure, but this is great stuff arouse the consipacy dudes.

Anyway, the point is you can blame the president all you want, but thus is a judiciary issue just as much if not more.

[chrisinth]

"The War On Terror™"

Love it!

Dee Mak!!.............................

(Post #302 - lannarebirth)

[Publicus]

I dislike this stuff very much, but I question whether anything can ever be done. This stuff is set in motion and it seems to me to be an issue for Federal Courts and the Supremes, both if which have already endorsed or rubber stamped too much erosion io the 4th. You guys bash me for whining about the Bush appointments, but our current Court will be 5-4 now on these issues assuming Scalia hold ground and refuses to erode the 4th (6-3 if not). Breyer may be viewed as a liberal, but not so much on criminal issues.

The problem is judges and courts somewhere have deemed this acceptable. Secret or not. Perhaps the secret is just courts set up that are not public record. Not sure, but this is great stuff arouse the consipacy dudes.

Anyway, the point is you can blame the president all you want, but thus is a judiciary issue just as much if not more.

Someone finally said it and it's true.

With only some small exception, the vast number of people everywhere, to include most TVF posters, dislike these developments and have a strong distaste for everything about them.

People, i.e., the general public, and others who pay attention to the news and the issues, are getting information about his fiasco but don't much discuss it, if they discuss it at all. Why not? Because it's ugly.

It's ugly because it raises the specter of Big Brother in the United States. It possibly says Barack Obama may not be the person, the president, we thought he was. It says the Congress, that mean spirited gang of numbskulls, passed the laws that created the spy monstrosity that has now come to haunt and to agonize us. It says there's a secret judiciary acting on laws we didn't even know of. It says a striving young man with a nice girlfriend rats out something he doesn't like then flees to a foreign country that is a serious rival, if not an enemy, of the United States.

It's especially ugly because we know we must have this security apparatus to protect us as best as it can from the evil world out there that is full of terrorists who live each day to die so they might destroy us.

It's an ugly time, in a world that has become more ugly than it had ever been, even during its worst times before our time.

It's downright ugly.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Publicus

[lannarebirth]

It's especially ugly because we know we must have this security apparatus to protect us as best as it can from the evil world out there that is full of terrorists who live each day to die so they might destroy us.

It's an ugly time, in a world that has become more ugly than it had ever been, even during its worst times before our time.

It's downright ugly.

I don't buy your specious assertion, but if I did, my reply would be, "at what cost?"

http://thinkbynumbers.org/government-spending/anti-terrorism-spending-disproportionate-to-threat/

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies have been deleted. Posts about moderation have also been deleted.

[Publicus]

CNN Poll: Majority give Snowden thumbs down

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/17/cnn-poll-majority-give-snowden-thumbs-down/

A look at the complete data of the new CNN poll reveals that 52% of Americans disapprove of Edward Snowden leaking highly classified national security documents and information to two newspapers. Only 44% approve. (The two newspapers are the leftist Guardian in the UK and the liberal Washington Post.)

Further, the CNN/ORC poll released Monday shows that 54% of Americans want the U.S. government to initiate extradition proceedings against Snowden in Hong Kong to return him to the United States to be prosecuted for leaking the information to the newspapers, which now include three newspapers, the South China Morning Post in Hong Kong being the third. Only 42% oppose this course of action.

The survey shows the political center-middle of the U.S. significantly approve of the job Prez Obama is doing to combat global terrorism against the United States. Fifty-two percent approve of Prez Obama's programs and efforts in this respect, while 45% disapprove.

On the question of using internet companies such as Google and Facebook, just to name two, to identify terrorists or terrorism in foreign countries, 66% said it is right for Prez Obama to pursue this approach. Only 33% said they are opposed.

The U.S. political center-middle has been consistent in its view of these issues. I believe the CNN poll is the first to ask about an extradition of Edward Snowden. The CNN survey would thus supersede other polls on the question of whether Snowden is a traitor or a patriot. (CNN did not pose this question - I'd say the initial thoughts on this question have become passe', irrelevant, meaningless. If anything, present responses would likely be more heavily toward traitor.)

The CNN poll has much more information in it, but this pretty much is the key data

[snarky66]

The sad part is I doubt anything can or will be done and it will continue. The Patriot Act opened the door and many court decisions have followed suit.

There is another statute which comes into play here. Collecting & warehousing meta data is one thing but if the justice dept wants to examine someone they have to get a warrant from a FISA court.

4th amendment doesn't cover metadata.

But the safeguards are in place.

Snowden may be highlighting some potential for wrongdoing & good for him to do that.

[Publicus]

Public thinking and sentiment have taken a decisive turn as measured from the middle of last week.

The CNN/ORC scientific survey, which began on last Thursday and continued through Saturday, announced its results Monday morning (6 am), finding that 54% of Americans want Snowden brought back from Hong Kong for prosecution, and that 54% disapprove of his leaking national security documents to three newspapers.

Whistleblowing by employees of national security agencies is expressly prohibited by law. Many people, to include myself, believe he should have gone to the bozos in Congress instead, as bad as they are, they would have authority to mount a response. .

Edward Snowden, the leaker, didn't help his cause when he said the U.S. Government kills more people than the police. Americans in the vast political center-middle find his statement about the government and the police to be extreme, imprudent; wild.

Edward Snowden Is In The Process Of Destroying Any Support And Sympathy He Has Built Up

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/edward-snowden-backlash-nsa-spying-china-2013-6#ixzz2WX37zgKD

[chuckd]

CNN Poll: Majority give Snowden thumbs down

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/17/cnn-poll-majority-give-snowden-thumbs-down/

A look at the complete data of the new CNN poll reveals that 52% of Americans disapprove of Edward Snowden leaking highly classified national security documents and information to two newspapers. Only 44% approve. (The two newspapers are the leftist Guardian in the UK and the liberal Washington Post.)

Further, the CNN/ORC poll released Monday shows that 54% of Americans want the U.S. government to initiate extradition proceedings against Snowden in Hong Kong to return him to the United States to be prosecuted for leaking the information to the newspapers, which now include three newspapers, the South China Morning Post in Hong Kong being the third. Only 42% oppose this course of action.

The survey shows the political center-middle of the U.S. significantly approve of the job Prez Obama is doing to combat global terrorism against the United States. Fifty-two percent approve of Prez Obama's programs and efforts in this respect, while 45% disapprove.

On the question of using internet companies such as Google and Facebook, just to name two, to identify terrorists or terrorism in foreign countries, 66% said it is right for Prez Obama to pursue this approach. Only 33% said they are opposed.

The U.S. political center-middle has been consistent in its view of these issues. I believe the CNN poll is the first to ask about an extradition of Edward Snowden. The CNN survey would thus supersede other polls on the question of whether Snowden is a traitor or a patriot. (CNN did not pose this question - I'd say the initial thoughts on this question have become passe', irrelevant, meaningless. If anything, present responses would likely be more heavily toward traitor.)

The CNN poll has much more information in it, but this pretty much is the key data

Some information you omitted from the CNN poll follows:

"Six in 10 disapprove of how Obama is handling government surveillance of U.S. citizens, which is higher than the 52% who disapproved of George W. Bush on the same issue in 2006, when government surveillance was also in the headlines."

There is much more in the actual poll which can be read here:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/17/cnn-poll-obama-approval-falls-amid-controversies/?hpt=hp_c2

[lannarebirth]

The sad part is I doubt anything can or will be done and it will continue. The Patriot Act opened the door and many court decisions have followed suit.

There is another statute which comes into play here. Collecting & warehousing meta data is one thing but if the justice dept wants to examine someone they have to get a warrant from a FISA court.

4th amendment doesn't cover metadata.

But the safeguards are in place.

Snowden may be highlighting some potential for wrongdoing & good for him to do that.

It is not constitutional to seize and store a persons papers, which has been taken to mean correspondences, both verbal and written, without probable cause for doing so. Period!

[Publicus]

CNN Poll: Majority give Snowden thumbs down

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/17/cnn-poll-majority-give-snowden-thumbs-down/

A look at the complete data of the new CNN poll reveals that 52% of Americans disapprove of Edward Snowden leaking highly classified national security documents and information to two newspapers. Only 44% approve. (The two newspapers are the leftist Guardian in the UK and the liberal Washington Post.)

Further, the CNN/ORC poll released Monday shows that 54% of Americans want the U.S. government to initiate extradition proceedings against Snowden in Hong Kong to return him to the United States to be prosecuted for leaking the information to the newspapers, which now include three newspapers, the South China Morning Post in Hong Kong being the third. Only 42% oppose this course of action.

The survey shows the political center-middle of the U.S. significantly approve of the job Prez Obama is doing to combat global terrorism against the United States. Fifty-two percent approve of Prez Obama's programs and efforts in this respect, while 45% disapprove.

On the question of using internet companies such as Google and Facebook, just to name two, to identify terrorists or terrorism in foreign countries, 66% said it is right for Prez Obama to pursue this approach. Only 33% said they are opposed.

The U.S. political center-middle has been consistent in its view of these issues. I believe the CNN poll is the first to ask about an extradition of Edward Snowden. The CNN survey would thus supersede other polls on the question of whether Snowden is a traitor or a patriot. (CNN did not pose this question - I'd say the initial thoughts on this question have become passe', irrelevant, meaningless. If anything, present responses would likely be more heavily toward traitor.)

The CNN poll has much more information in it, but this pretty much is the key data

Some information you omitted from the CNN poll follows:

"Six in 10 disapprove of how Obama is handling government surveillance of U.S. citizens, which is higher than the 52% who disapproved of George W. Bush on the same issue in 2006, when government surveillance was also in the headlines."

There is much more in the actual poll which can be read here:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/17/cnn-poll-obama-approval-falls-amid-controversies/?hpt=hp_c2

It still is not clear in the minds of the body politic concerning the distinction between the NSA phone surveillance and the PRISM program which focuses on the internet corporates.

Sudden publicity concerning the two occurring virtually simultaneously has obfuscated distinctions between the nature of each program, to include means, methods, purposes and goals.

As I'd said last week, matters are being sorted out in the public mind and are gradually becoming more clear. The matter of Mr Snowden is decided and settled, to his detriment. It seems natural that public knowledge and understanding of the two national security programs will also become more clear over time and resolved in a similar fashion.

[FDog]

Why is it the secret court has not been taken to task for ordering that all phone records etc, both foreign and domestic be provided to the NSA.

The NSA has no authority re domestic issues.

[chuckd]

CNN Poll: Majority give Snowden thumbs down

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/17/cnn-poll-majority-give-snowden-thumbs-down/

A look at the complete data of the new CNN poll reveals that 52% of Americans disapprove of Edward Snowden leaking highly classified national security documents and information to two newspapers. Only 44% approve. (The two newspapers are the leftist Guardian in the UK and the liberal Washington Post.)

Further, the CNN/ORC poll released Monday shows that 54% of Americans want the U.S. government to initiate extradition proceedings against Snowden in Hong Kong to return him to the United States to be prosecuted for leaking the information to the newspapers, which now include three newspapers, the South China Morning Post in Hong Kong being the third. Only 42% oppose this course of action.

The survey shows the political center-middle of the U.S. significantly approve of the job Prez Obama is doing to combat global terrorism against the United States. Fifty-two percent approve of Prez Obama's programs and efforts in this respect, while 45% disapprove.

On the question of using internet companies such as Google and Facebook, just to name two, to identify terrorists or terrorism in foreign countries, 66% said it is right for Prez Obama to pursue this approach. Only 33% said they are opposed.

The U.S. political center-middle has been consistent in its view of these issues. I believe the CNN poll is the first to ask about an extradition of Edward Snowden. The CNN survey would thus supersede other polls on the question of whether Snowden is a traitor or a patriot. (CNN did not pose this question - I'd say the initial thoughts on this question have become passe', irrelevant, meaningless. If anything, present responses would likely be more heavily toward traitor.)

The CNN poll has much more information in it, but this pretty much is the key data

Some information you omitted from the CNN poll follows:

"Six in 10 disapprove of how Obama is handling government surveillance of U.S. citizens, which is higher than the 52% who disapproved of George W. Bush on the same issue in 2006, when government surveillance was also in the headlines."

There is much more in the actual poll which can be read here:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/17/cnn-poll-obama-approval-falls-amid-controversies/?hpt=hp_c2

It still is not clear in the minds of the body politic concerning the distinction between the NSA phone surveillance and the PRISM program which focuses on the internet corporates.

Sudden publicity concerning the two occurring virtually simultaneously has obfuscated distinctions between the nature of each program, to include means, methods, purposes and goals.

As I'd said last week, matters are being sorted out in the public mind and are gradually becoming more clear. The matter of Mr Snowden is decided and settled, to his detriment. It seems natural that public knowledge and understanding of the two national security programs will also become more clear over time and resolved in a similar fashion.

In my world we call that "cherry picking" in order to suit a particular political agenda.

[wealth]

I dislike this stuff very much, but I question whether anything can ever be done. This stuff is set in motion and it seems to me to be an issue for Federal Courts and the Supremes, both if which have already endorsed or rubber stamped too much erosion io the 4th. You guys bash me for whining about the Bush appointments, but our current Court will be 5-4 now on these issues assuming Scalia hold ground and refuses to erode the 4th (6-3 if not). Breyer may be viewed as a liberal, but not so much on criminal issues.

The problem is judges and courts somewhere have deemed this acceptable. Secret or not. Perhaps the secret is just courts set up that are not public record. Not sure, but this is great stuff arouse the consipacy dudes.

Anyway, the point is you can blame the president all you want, but thus is a judiciary issue just as much if not more.

Same as in North Korea, I see

[Asiantravel]

I dislike this stuff very much, but I question whether anything can ever be done. This stuff is set in motion and it seems to me to be an issue for Federal Courts and the Supremes, both if which have already endorsed or rubber stamped too much erosion io the 4th. You guys bash me for whining about the Bush appointments, but our current Court will be 5-4 now on these issues assuming Scalia hold ground and refuses to erode the 4th (6-3 if not). Breyer may be viewed as a liberal, but not so much on criminal issues.

The problem is judges and courts somewhere have deemed this acceptable. Secret or not. Perhaps the secret is just courts set up that are not public record. Not sure, but this is great stuff arouse the consipacy dudes.

Anyway, the point is you can blame the president all you want, but thus is a judiciary issue just as much if not more.

Same as in North Korea, I see

NSA spying whistleblower Edward Snowden’s statements have been verified. Reporter Glenn Greenwald has promised numerous additional disclosures from Snowden.

What other revelations are coming?

http://www.christopherketcham.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/The%20Last%20Roundup,%20Radar%20Magazine.pdf

Edited June 18, 2013 by Asiantravel

[snarky66]

FISA & the Patriot Act are 2 different statues. Snow den said he could listen to obama phone calls & read obama emails. That is illegal. That is abuse.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Publicus]

Why is it the secret court has not been taken to task for ordering that all phone records etc, both foreign and domestic be provided to the NSA.

The NSA has no authority re domestic issues.

The clowns in Congress are already addressing this issue, as is the White House.

Congress has introduced legislation to make the Fisa court more transparent, along with several other concerns about the court and its procedures. The White House has expressed a keen interest in opening the court more to public scrutiny. These matters will take months, if not a year or so, but the cavalry is on the way.

Gen Michael Hayden ret said on Meet the Press the past Sunday that when he moved from director of NSA to director of the CIA, he found that he had to "shave a couple of points off" the activities of the CIA in order to get more political and public support for CIA activities in general. Gen Hayden says that now NSA and the Fisa court needs to do the same, i.e., become less efficient (secret) in the interests of democratic accountability which, in turn, provides political sustainability, support.

The problem has been identified. The solutions are in process. The end result, after a time, is something everyone can evaluate, based on our own input. I'm certain that, if necessary, and the 4th Amendment issues get to the Supreme Court, the 4th Amendment will be applied to the issue of the data - how could it not be applied?

[Publicus]

Officials: Surveillance programs foiled more than 50 terrorist plots

Plot Foiled To Bomb New York Stock Exchange

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/officials-surveillance-programs-foiled-more-than-50-terrorist-plots/2013/06/18/d657cb56-d83e-11e2-9df4-895344c13c30_story.html

In testimony before the House Intelligence Committee, NSA Commander General Keith B. Alexander (4 stars) said the surveillance programs had helped prevent an attack on the subway system in New York City and the bombing of a Danish newspaper. Sean Joyce, deputy director of the FBI, described two additional plots Tuesday that he said were stopped through the surveillance — a plan by a Kansas City, Mo., man to bomb the New York Stock Exchange and efforts by a San Diego man to send money to terrorists in Somalia

Gen Alexander said that more than 90 percent of the information on the foiled plots came from a program targeting the communications of foreigners, known as PRISM. The program was authorized under Section 702 of a 2008 law that amended the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). The law authorizes the NSA to collect e-mails and other Internet communications to and from foreign targets overseas who are thought to be involved in terrorism or nuclear proliferation or who might provide critical foreign intelligence. No American in the country or abroad can be targeted without a warrant, and no person inside the United States can be targeted without a warrant.

Gen Alexander also emphasized that, “As Americans, we value our privacy and our civil liberties. As Americans, we also value our security and our safety. In the 12 years since the attacks on September 11, we have lived in relative safety and security as a nation. That security is a direct result of the intelligence community’s quiet efforts to better connect the dots and learn from the mistakes that permitted those attacks to occur on 9/11.”

Referring to the leaks to newspapers by computer program analyst Edward Snowden, Robert S. Litt, general counsel of the Office of the Director of National Intelligence said, “We are now faced with a situation that, because this information has been made public, we run the risk of losing these collection capabilities.”

Well said, but I think though that even the national security officials who testified today have some reservations concerning the effectiveness of the phone data collection capabilities they were given by the Patriot Act. Gen Alexander, who is also commanding general of U.S. Cyber Command, stated his willingness to have the phone companies keep possession of the collected data. I don't know anyway of any necessary usefulness of the data, given that the data do not include the content of calls, location data or a subscriber’s name and address. I feel a little safer about the vagueness of the data, but also wonder why, because of its vagueness, the data is collected at all. Maybe having the phone number itself may serve its useful purpose, but I haven't heard anything of that.

[lannarebirth]

Officials: Surveillance programs foiled more than 50 terrorist plots

Plot Foiled To Bomb New York Stock Exchange

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/officials-surveillance-programs-foiled-more-than-50-terrorist-plots/2013/06/18/d657cb56-d83e-11e2-9df4-895344c13c30_story.html

In testimony before the House Intelligence Committee, NSA Commander General Keith B. Alexander (4 stars) said the surveillance programs had helped prevent an attack on the subway system in New York City and the bombing of a Danish newspaper. Sean Joyce, deputy director of the FBI, described two additional plots Tuesday that he said were stopped through the surveillance — a plan by a Kansas City, Mo., man to bomb the New York Stock Exchange and efforts by a San Diego man to send money to terrorists in Somalia

Gen Alexander said that more than 90 percent of the information on the foiled plots came from a program targeting the communications of foreigners, known as PRISM. The program was authorized under Section 702 of a 2008 law that amended the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). The law authorizes the NSA to collect e-mails and other Internet communications to and from foreign targets overseas who are thought to be involved in terrorism or nuclear proliferation or who might provide critical foreign intelligence. No American in the country or abroad can be targeted without a warrant, and no person inside the United States can be targeted without a warrant.

Gen Alexander also emphasized that, “As Americans, we value our privacy and our civil liberties. As Americans, we also value our security and our safety. In the 12 years since the attacks on September 11, we have lived in relative safety and security as a nation. That security is a direct result of the intelligence community’s quiet efforts to better connect the dots and learn from the mistakes that permitted those attacks to occur on 9/11.”

Referring to the leaks to newspapers by computer program analyst Edward Snowden, Robert S. Litt, general counsel of the Office of the Director of National Intelligence said, “We are now faced with a situation that, because this information has been made public, we run the risk of losing these collection capabilities.”

Well said, but I think though that even the national security officials who testified today have some reservations concerning the effectiveness of the phone data collection capabilities they were given by the Patriot Act. Gen Alexander, who is also commanding general of U.S. Cyber Command, stated his willingness to have the phone companies keep possession of the collected data. I don't know anyway of any necessary usefulness of the data, given that the data do not include the content of calls, location data or a subscriber’s name and address. I feel a little safer about the vagueness of the data, but also wonder why, because of its vagueness, the data is collected at all. Maybe having the phone number itself may serve its useful purpose, but I haven't heard anything of that.

This guy lied to Congress 14 times last year in just one hearing. why should anyone believe anything he says? BTW, 2 days ago they claimed their domestic spying stopped 20 terrorist attacks globally. I guess that bullshit story didn't get enough traction so now it's 50. Of the 20 they claimed 2 days ago 14 were cases of entrapping innocent people. Alexander is a liar as was the CIA guy who was lying to Congress a few weeks ago about the existence of domestic surveillance networks.

[Ulysses G.]

Of the 20 they claimed 2 days ago 14 were cases of entrapping innocent people.

While I agree that many of the terrorism suspects are entrapped, I would not call anyone who agrees to plant a bomb that will kill civilians "innocent".