Thailand's English Skills Lowest In S E A

[boomerangutang]

It can be good if the teacher of a foreign language also speaks at least a bit of the native tongue of the youngsters being taught. However, particularly in Thailand, that gets overwrought - to the the degree where the teacher expends nearly all her words in the native tongue. The result; very little learning on the part of students. Add to that, the ridiculous emphasis on grammar - much of it using obscure terminology, and nearly all of it unnecessary. How many US or British PhD's (any specialty) can tell you what 'pluperfect' or 'infinitive' or 'past perfect' or 'participle' means? Yet, Thai children are hit with ridiculous words like that, early on, by their (usually Thai) English teachers. No wonder they can't learn to speak sentences other than "Hello, how are you?" and "I'm fine, thank you" - after studying English for 11 years.

[Noistar]

It can be good if the teacher of a foreign language also speaks at least a bit of the native tongue of the youngsters being taught. However, particularly in Thailand, that gets overwrought - to the the degree where the teacher expends nearly all her words in the native tongue. The result; very little learning on the part of students. Add to that, the ridiculous emphasis on grammar - much of it using obscure terminology, and nearly all of it unnecessary. How many US or British PhD's (any specialty) can tell you what 'pluperfect' or 'infinitive' or 'past perfect' or 'participle' means? Yet, Thai children are hit with ridiculous words like that, early on, by their (usually Thai) English teachers. No wonder they can't learn to speak sentences other than "Hello, how are you?" and "I'm fine, thank you" - after studying English for 11 years.

Having reviewed some homework my step-daughter had brought home, I wasn't surprised at the usual 'missing word' questions (more than 1 correct answer, no correct answer), but I failed miserably on a grammar question! As you say, their priorities seem to be wrong, which doesn't help matters.

It's almost as if the conversational lessons, with some relatively competent teacher of English, is being undone by the Thai English teacher.

[jpeg]

Really appreciate some of the insights in this thread. I'd like to steer the discussion to class size for a moment, if I may. Because despite any future progress on the bureaucratic front allowing Thailand to both attract and retain talented, experienced English teachers, ultimately how can one ever hope to conduct a conversation class with fifty students in the room?

In a class of forty or fifty, even if the teacher is talented enough to get everyone on task, the volume would be deafening: it'd be near impossible to make any meaningful corrections. I can't be certain of a magic number, but imagine anything less than twenty would be great. Perhaps twenty is an impossibility given the sheer number of students attending many government schools. But even in such cases, schools should be separating out the most gifted students, putting them into small groups, and giving them daily classes.

I often see small groups of students given daily dance lessons, so it stands to reason the same could be done for those showing a proclivity for the English language.

Years ago Thailand offered free schooling to children (under 12 wasn't it?) - but since then they have sat on their laurels. The quality of teaching in schools is poor in general and of course as you say the class sizes are ridiculous.......

they have tried to put native English teachers in schools, but if the environment isn't there then it can't make a huge difference.

however I think that schools are only part of the problem - most countries use private companied to teach adults English after they leave school or to give extra tuition to school children and this system in Thailand is simply not good enough - so Thai students are losing out at school and AFTER school too (not to mention university.

As for native speakers - i think their importance can be over estimated - if the country had a higher standard of teacher and text book, the need would be less. The reason for Native speakers in most instances is that it is intended for students to be taught on TEFL principles.

An aspect of the problem in Thai schools is the quality of the non-native speakers as teachers and the abysmal text books which are just littered with howlers e.g "go TO shopping" whoever put that in a school textbook should be taken out and shot. (that's a figure of speech probably hyperbole -- not understood very well on this site)

How many of us farang had NATIVE language teachers ? I never had a native French teacher yet my standard is (or was) high enough to conduct business in France - I'd have loved to have had a native Latin speaker!

Although I agree with most of your post, a cursory glance at a tv program geared towards teaching English, by a Thai teacher, shows how important it is to be taught languages by native speakers. Even the Thais themselves say this.

Also, I had a native French teacher at school and a native Italian teacher for post grad. Another student told me a friend had been taught Italian by an Irishman and ended up speaking Italian with an Irish accent, and much as I love the Irish accent the mind boggles.

I've even seen English natives advertising here to teach Thai to farang I learned Thai from a Thai. As it should be.

BTW, I met a Thai doctor who learned his English in India, complete with head waggle

[Issangeorge]

In Thailand the majority of English teaching is done by Thais, economics dictate that. However if the Thai schools are employing a foreign teacher so the students can learn the proper pronunciation and way of speaking then it only makes sense to employ a native speaker, otherwise employ a Thai.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[jpeg]

In Thailand the majority of English teaching is done by Thais, economics dictate that.

Then it's a false economy as the students are presumably being taught the International language, English, in order to engage with the international community/business world, and they aren't/won't be able to do that with the appalling 'English' some bother to speak now.

[wilcopops]

One way to learn a language is to deconstruct that language and understand the grammar etc. on the other hand, with a native speaker, (TEFL) the basic idea is that you learn the same way you learned your native tongue - form your parents, peers and through immersion and experience of the language. THis is wonderful when it works - and if you look at those who use the language a lot (English in this case) even without formal training they actually pick it up quite well (NB - bar girls, people in the tourist) race.

However some students either don't learn new languages well this way or don't have the opportunity to use it a lot. These students are often better off learning by deconstructing the language to be learned. I.E. studying the grammar parts of speech etc. You wouldn't normally expect a native speaker to be aware of this aspect of their own language but it can help tremendously when learning a new language. Many Thai students don't know what a noun adjective or verb is as word form doesn't change in thai. To lean this a detailed explanation is often required and this is BETTER from a Thai speaker......

SO - another problem here is that the Thai speaker teaching needs to KNOW THE GRAMMAR themselves, which evidently is not the case in many institutions in Thailand.

I doubt if many native English speakers on this thread (outside educationalists) could clearly explain the various uses of the various tenses if asked - it's not an easy job and if a Thai native speaker is going to do this they need a good understanding of English grammar.

BTW - InTEFL whereas the grammar is not necessarily explained - it is learned by the student through experience - so any TEFL teacher really needs to understand the grammar too.

[wilcopops]

In Thailand the majority of English teaching is done by Thais, economics dictate that.

Then it's a false economy as the students are presumably being taught the International language, English, in order to engage with the international community/business world, and they aren't/won't be able to do that with the appalling 'English' some bother to speak now.

I.G. - Not sure that is true - especially in adult and tertiary education - however it IS true that the teaching is MANAGED by Thais - now that is a major problem. (as I've mentioned above)

Edited July 30, 2013 by wilcopops

[wilcopops]

Really appreciate some of the insights in this thread. I'd like to steer the discussion to class size for a moment, if I may. Because despite any future progress on the bureaucratic front allowing Thailand to both attract and retain talented, experienced English teachers, ultimately how can one ever hope to conduct a conversation class with fifty students in the room?

In a class of forty or fifty, even if the teacher is talented enough to get everyone on task, the volume would be deafening: it'd be near impossible to make any meaningful corrections. I can't be certain of a magic number, but imagine anything less than twenty would be great. Perhaps twenty is an impossibility given the sheer number of students attending many government schools. But even in such cases, schools should be separating out the most gifted students, putting them into small groups, and giving them daily classes.

I often see small groups of students given daily dance lessons, so it stands to reason the same could be done for those showing a proclivity for the English language.

Years ago Thailand offered free schooling to children (under 12 wasn't it?) - but since then they have sat on their laurels. The quality of teaching in schools is poor in general and of course as you say the class sizes are ridiculous.......

they have tried to put native English teachers in schools, but if the environment isn't there then it can't make a huge difference.

however I think that schools are only part of the problem - most countries use private companied to teach adults English after they leave school or to give extra tuition to school children and this system in Thailand is simply not good enough - so Thai students are losing out at school and AFTER school too (not to mention university.

As for native speakers - i think their importance can be over estimated - if the country had a higher standard of teacher and text book, the need would be less. The reason for Native speakers in most instances is that it is intended for students to be taught on TEFL principles.

An aspect of the problem in Thai schools is the quality of the non-native speakers as teachers and the abysmal text books which are just littered with howlers e.g "go TO shopping" whoever put that in a school textbook should be taken out and shot. (that's a figure of speech probably hyperbole -- not understood very well on this site)

How many of us farang had NATIVE language teachers ? I never had a native French teacher yet my standard is (or was) high enough to conduct business in France - I'd have loved to have had a native Latin speaker!

Although I agree with most of your post, a cursory glance at a tv program geared towards teaching English, by a Thai teacher, shows how important it is to be taught languages by native speakers. Even the Thais themselves say this.

Also, I had a native French teacher at school and a native Italian teacher for post grad. Another student told me a friend had been taught Italian by an Irishman and ended up speaking Italian with an Irish accent, and much as I love the Irish accent the mind boggles.

I've even seen English natives advertising here to teach Thai to farang I learned Thai from a Thai. As it should be.

BTW, I met a Thai doctor who learned his English in India, complete with head waggle

Up to uni I no native speaking teachers - i got good grades and read a lot of French literature. Even as a kid I used to travel to France and my parents encouraged me to use my French whenever - of course as a kid I was shy....but later I found myself increasingly doping business in Europe - especially in France and in no time my French was conversational....on a couple of occasions, i even got mistaken for being French!.

point is I was taught through deconstruction of the language - but when it came to put it into practice it took a very short time for the language to kick in.

As a footnote I also studied Latin - people often ask me in Spain or Italy how i know how to say this or that when I never officially studied the language......but of course I know the route language. This is a major problem for Thai students as there are no reference points for them to start from - in places like Burma, india Malaysia and Singapore there has been an English influence in the background for centuries - so a lot of the stuff they are confronted with is familiar.

[wilcopops]

So i think what I'm geting at here is that there is no single reason for thailand's poor performance and looking for one is a waste of time; the reasons are manifold......and on the other side of the coin the reasons for other countries doing better are even more varied - each country has its own individual set of pros and cons with regards to leaning English.

in fact we should even question the premise that this thread is based on.......

Edited July 30, 2013 by wilcopops

[cardholder]

In Thailand the majority of English teaching is done by Thais, economics dictate that.

Then it's a false economy as the students are presumably being taught the International language, English, in order to engage with the international community/business world, and they aren't/won't be able to do that with the appalling 'English' some bother to speak now.

I agree 100%.

I don't give a flying fart whether they want to protect Thai English teachers or not. The fact remains that if they continue with what they have they will keep getting the same poor results. The only people who suffer are the Thai students who will remain disadvantaged against their ASEAN peers.

[Noistar]

So i think what I'm geting at here is that there is no single reason for thailand's poor performance and looking for one is a waste of time; the reasons are manifold......and on the other side of the coin the reasons for other countries doing better are even more varied - each country has its own individual set of pros and cons with regards to leaning English.

in fact we should even question the premise that this thread is based on.......

If you build a car and it collapses on a test run, it would be reasonable to blame poor manufacturing.

If you have an education system which teaches students for 14 years + university and the results are an inability to communicate in the English they have been taught, it is reasonable to blame poor teaching.

Those same people then become teachers to maintain the same poor teaching standards.

So I think the causes are not as manifold as you suggest.

[wilcopops]

So i think what I'm geting at here is that there is no single reason for thailand's poor performance and looking for one is a waste of time; the reasons are manifold......and on the other side of the coin the reasons for other countries doing better are even more varied - each country has its own individual set of pros and cons with regards to leaning English.

in fact we should even question the premise that this thread is based on.......

If you build a car and it collapses on a test run, it would be reasonable to blame poor manufacturing.

If you have an education system which teaches students for 14 years + university and the results are an inability to communicate in the English they have been taught, it is reasonable to blame poor teaching.

Those same people then become teachers to maintain the same poor teaching standards.

So I think the causes are not as manifold as you suggest.

I think this deserves the "worst analogy of thread" award.

do you know the one about "my cat has 4 legs"?

Edited August 1, 2013 by wilcopops

[SteeleJoe]

So i think what I'm geting at here is that there is no single reason for thailand's poor performance and looking for one is a waste of time; the reasons are manifold......and on the other side of the coin the reasons for other countries doing better are even more varied - each country has its own individual set of pros and cons with regards to leaning English.

in fact we should even question the premise that this thread is based on.......

If you build a car and it collapses on a test run, it would be reasonable to blame poor manufacturing.

If you have an education system which teaches students for 14 years + university and the results are an inability to communicate in the English they have been taught, it is reasonable to blame poor teaching.

Those same people then become teachers to maintain the same poor teaching standards.

So I think the causes are not as manifold as you suggest.

I think this deserves the "worst analogy of thread" award.

do you know the one about "my cat has 4 legs"?

Your cat must be a dog!

[wilcopops]

So i think what I'm geting at here is that there is no single reason for thailand's poor performance and looking for one is a waste of time; the reasons are manifold......and on the other side of the coin the reasons for other countries doing better are even more varied - each country has its own individual set of pros and cons with regards to leaning English.

in fact we should even question the premise that this thread is based on.......

If you build a car and it collapses on a test run, it would be reasonable to blame poor manufacturing.

If you have an education system which teaches students for 14 years + university and the results are an inability to communicate in the English they have been taught, it is reasonable to blame poor teaching.

Those same people then become teachers to maintain the same poor teaching standards.

So I think the causes are not as manifold as you suggest.

I think this deserves the "worst analogy of thread" award.

do you know the one about "my cat has 4 legs"?

Your cat must be a dog!

Exactly...that's the logic you've just employed in that analogy.

[Scott]

A series of off-topic posts and replies have been deleted. Some of the posts had messed up quotes, which was a factor in the deletion.

Please stay on topic.

[Noistar]

So i think what I'm geting at here is that there is no single reason for thailand's poor performance and looking for one is a waste of time; the reasons are manifold......and on the other side of the coin the reasons for other countries doing better are even more varied - each country has its own individual set of pros and cons with regards to leaning English.

in fact we should even question the premise that this thread is based on.......

If you build a car and it collapses on a test run, it would be reasonable to blame poor manufacturing.

If you have an education system which teaches students for 14 years + university and the results are an inability to communicate in the English they have been taught, it is reasonable to blame poor teaching.

Those same people then become teachers to maintain the same poor teaching standards.

So I think the causes are not as manifold as you suggest.

I think this deserves the "worst analogy of thread" award.

do you know the one about "my cat has 4 legs"?

Opinion noted

[SteeleJoe]

Wasn't me that used an analogy.

[MilesofSmiles]

+1 on large classes not helping.

Ideal class size is ~18, 30 maximum.

I doubt the crap wages and long hours would attract good overseas talent.

$2-3k/month? That's a low wage for teacher by any standard.

Private schools in Aus pay 60-80 for top level teachers, I'd imagine 40? for someone fairly fresh.

That's based on what I read, I don't really know <deleted> I'm talking about re: local salaries.

The inability to affect the teaching environment, course materials etc, would be very frustrating too.

Teaching types generally give a shit, and really do want to help their students.

Years ago, I tutored my Japanese housemate, so he could pass TOEFL and get Aussie visa. Took us about 5 months.

Being Japanese, He would listen to lessons on his ipod all day in the kitchen, then come home and we'd talk for a while.

Actually wanting to learn the language is the most important thing. A lot of time is probably wasted on students who could be learning something

they'll put to use, than borked pigeon anglish.

Thais aren't inherently stupid or unable to learn the language. I think it's just a limited world view, and no incentive.

It's hard to blame people for having a limited world view when that's all they've been taught or exposed to.

Look at television.. Westen movies are completely dubbed, complete with stupid comedy noises.

Why not subtitles?????????? (and why the same 2 guys for everything 55555)

(many) Thais aren't very good at communication, period. I've traveled the world and been able to communicate with people I didn't share a language with, so I'm not sure what the malfunction is here.

That being said... there is a conspiracy among taxi drivers here to get me where I want to go... it's awesome.

If hordes of eloquent migrants start taking Thai jobs, I think the standard of English will improve quite quickly.

That, or they'll execute them for spreading rumors about colonialism and causing the yaba problem

Edited August 2, 2013 by MilesofSmiles

[Noistar]

+1 on large classes not helping.

Ideal class size is ~18, 30 maximum.

I doubt the crap wages and long hours would attract good overseas talent.

$2-3k/month? That's a low wage for teacher by any standard.

Private schools in Aus pay 60-80 for top level teachers, I'd imagine 40? for someone fairly fresh.

That's based on what I read, I don't really know <deleted> I'm talking about re: local salaries.

The inability to affect the teaching environment, course materials etc, would be very frustrating too.

Teaching types generally give a shit, and really do want to help their students.

Years ago, I tutored my Japanese housemate, so he could pass TOEFL and get Aussie visa. Took us about 5 months.

Being Japanese, He would listen to lessons on his ipod all day in the kitchen, then come home and we'd talk for a while.

Actually wanting to learn the language is the most important thing. A lot of time is probably wasted on students who could be learning something

they'll put to use, than borked pigeon anglish.

Thais aren't inherently stupid or unable to learn the language. I think it's just a limited world view, and no incentive.

It's hard to blame people for having a limited world view when that's all they've been taught or exposed to.

Look at television.. Westen movies are completely dubbed, complete with stupid comedy noises.

Why not subtitles?????????? (and why the same 2 guys for everything 55555)

(many) Thais aren't very good at communication, period. I've traveled the world and been able to communicate with people I didn't share a language with, so I'm not sure what the malfunction is here.

That being said... there is a conspiracy among taxi drivers here to get me where I want to go... it's awesome.

If hordes of eloquent migrants start taking Thai jobs, I think the standard of English will improve quite quickly.

That, or they'll execute them for spreading rumors about colonialism and causing the yaba problem

The whole teaching environment seems to be at fault. I don't say that flippantly.

As you say, class sizes of 48 don't help. Have you ever tried managing a small class of young Thai students? Crowd control was how a stick-wielding Thai teacher expressed it.

Assuming Thai teachers genuinely want to do what's best for their students, their apparent inability to motivate their students would appear to be counter-productive.

Enthusiastic teachers, engaged students interacting with the teacher and we're looking at the potential for students learning something.

Unfortunately, that scenario doesn't instantly leap to mind when you witness (yes, I've seen it) Thai classes in action.

Poor teaching methods will always be the downfall of the Thai education system IMHO. Presumably non-foreign language subjects don't have the same problems as they are taught in Thai.

Thais getting teaching qualifications/teaching jobs without ability will be the reason why the poor English standards will not improve. If a Thai is fluent in English, the necessity for native English speakers will become less important.

Win-win for Thailand - Thais holding Thai jobs. Not in my, my children's or my grand-children's lifetimes' I fear.

[wilcopops]

+1 on large classes not helping.

Ideal class size is ~18, 30 maximum.

I doubt the crap wages and long hours would attract good overseas talent.

$2-3k/month? That's a low wage for teacher by any standard.

Private schools in Aus pay 60-80 for top level teachers, I'd imagine 40? for someone fairly fresh.

That's based on what I read, I don't really know <deleted> I'm talking about re: local salaries.

The inability to affect the teaching environment, course materials etc, would be very frustrating too.

Teaching types generally give a shit, and really do want to help their students.

Years ago, I tutored my Japanese housemate, so he could pass TOEFL and get Aussie visa. Took us about 5 months.

Being Japanese, He would listen to lessons on his ipod all day in the kitchen, then come home and we'd talk for a while.

Actually wanting to learn the language is the most important thing. A lot of time is probably wasted on students who could be learning something

they'll put to use, than borked pigeon anglish.

Thais aren't inherently stupid or unable to learn the language. I think it's just a limited world view, and no incentive.

It's hard to blame people for having a limited world view when that's all they've been taught or exposed to.

Look at television.. Westen movies are completely dubbed, complete with stupid comedy noises.

Why not subtitles?????????? (and why the same 2 guys for everything 55555)

(many) Thais aren't very good at communication, period. I've traveled the world and been able to communicate with people I didn't share a language with, so I'm not sure what the malfunction is here.

That being said... there is a conspiracy among taxi drivers here to get me where I want to go... it's awesome.

If hordes of eloquent migrants start taking Thai jobs, I think the standard of English will improve quite quickly.

That, or they'll execute them for spreading rumors about colonialism and causing the yaba problem

Here is somone voicing opinions without knowing the facts - TEFL teachers are employed all over the world and Thailand's wages actually compare quite favourably. They are not to be confused with general curriculum teachers in other countries.

I would also have to disagree with your self assessment of your communication abilities if the image of Thailand that you describe above is the one you intended.

[MilesofSmiles]

getting teaching qualifications/teaching jobs without ability

Changing that seems a fundamental step in the right direction.

Can't blame students for being turned off by a huge class where you get taught confusing shit by someone who has a tenuous grip on the subject themselves.

Some interesting comments here

http://asiancorrespondent.com/78647/thai-education-failures-part-4-dismal-english-language-education/

This

http://asiancorrespondent.com/78647/thai-education-failures-part-4-dismal-english-language-education/#comment-615743704

High school girl gets 1st place in regional TOEFL. Teachers tell her 'it's not our language'.

The notion that a teacher loses face if a student exceeds their skills is toxic, and probably contributes to the lack of drive and desire to exceed that's so common.

I can't fathom that successful students is something teachers try to avoid.

Because society teaches Thais are a superior race they are unable to see outside the box.

The belief in being a superior race removes desire/motivation to introspect and improve.

I am not judging but it is tragically dysfunctional and the vast majority of people are not even aware.

That's seriously part of the curriculum ?

[MilesofSmiles]

Relax , I included disclaimer early on. ~Line 6.

That's based on what I read, I don't really know <deleted> I'm talking about re: local salaries.

I know private school and university wages in .au from family, but it's like comparing a hose to a donut.

I work in a completely different industry, so I just know what I people tell me, or I read about.

RE: Comparing favourably

http://www.seek.com.au/

so ~$40-50 - 70-100 AUD / hour for English tuition/training.
1000 - 3000 baht / hour.

A basic teaching job, at 30kaud/year = 70k baht/month.

What are the rates here like ?

My understanding was that 30 - 60k/month was average for full time teacher.

I would also have to disagree with your self assessment of your communication abilities if the image of Thailand that you describe above is the one you intended.

Noted.

Interested to hear what image I've described that you take issue with, as , criticism aside, it's fundamentally positive.

That's why I live here

[wilcopops]

Relax alt=thumbsup.gif width=25 height=19> , I included disclaimer early on. ~Line 6.

That's based on what I read, I don't really know <deleted> I'm talking about re: local salaries.

I know private school and university wages in .au from family, but it's like comparing a hose to a donut.

I work in a completely different industry, so I just know what I people tell me, or I read about.

RE: Comparing favourably

http://www.seek.com.au/

so ~$40-50 - 70-100 AUD / hour for English tuition/training.

1000 - 3000 baht / hour.

A basic teaching job, at 30kaud/year = 70k baht/month.

What are the rates here like ?

My understanding was that 30 - 60k/month was average for full time teacher.

I would also have to disagree with your self assessment of your communication abilities if the image of Thailand that you describe above is the one you intended.

Noted.

Interested to hear what image I've described that you take issue with, as , criticism aside, it's fundamentally positive.

That's why I live here

I'm afraid your perceptions are wrong - You don't seem to understand the difference between a curriculum trained teacher and TEFL - you're comparing apples and oranges.

I have business with schools in Europe , Oz and Asia and at the rates offered TEFL teachers are remarkably the same. In Oz a state licenced/trained teacher may command a higher wage - there is in fact little or no market for non-australian teachers in Oz except gap-year candidates. Many countries such as US, India etc have enough native English speaking teachers. I UK - private schools employ TEFL teachers at about the same rates as Thailand. Spain and Italy, Eastern Europe are the same - they rely largely on young graduates who want a job for a year or two. If people turn the job into a career then the wages increase.

Comparing and hourly wage and monthly wage is of course just daft. Some teachers in TEFL are paid by the hour others receive a salary and benefits. (Thailand is very poor for offering foreign teachers benefits outside the govt school system). Hourly rates vary on where and who they teach. However if you just look at the number of lessons a teacher takes at a school the hours a full-time teacher is actually teaching are very low.

in sme countries in mainstream teaching the unions over the years have carved out some vey good deals - whereby a teacher eve if paid by the hour receives a monthly salary that reflects the real time spent at the school in preparing lessons and admin etc. TEFL teachers outside government systems are rarely covered by these sort of agreements.

THere is also the cost of living to take into account. many countries that employ TEFL teachers have a relatively low cost of living and teachers can actually save money once they have established themselves.

I'd also question whether salaries offered are the deciding factor in those seeking employment -many teachers give up much higher paid jobs for the opportunity to live in a different country, climate or culture.

English in any country is not just taught at government schools - in fact I know of no country that doesn't also have a TEFL industry that is outside the regular school system - in country those wishing to learn English will go to a private Language School - as a product it has to be one of the US and UK's biggest invisible exports.

thailand's BIG problem is that it's laws governing those wishing either to teach or set up a school here are FAR TOO RESTRICTIVE or just absurd. Having more rational regulations in place will not open the floodgates to "bad teachers" but will allow those expert in TEFL to set up profitable schools that employ high quality teachers - and to judge by the level of TEFL salaries worldwide without any significant change in cost to the customer.

Edited August 2, 2013 by wilcopops

[MilesofSmiles]

I'm afraid your perceptions are wrong - You don't seem to understand the difference between a curriculum trained teacher and TEFL - you're comparing apples and oranges.

<snip>

thailand's BIG problem is that it's laws governing those wishing either to teach or set up a school here are FAR TOO RESTRICTIVE or just absurd. Having more rational regulations in place will not open the floodgates to "bad teachers" but will allow those expert in TEFL to set up profitable schools that employ high quality teachers - and to judge by the level of TEFL salaries worldwide without any significant change in cost to the customer.

I stand corrected.

Thanks.

I agree with regulations restricting foreigners opening a school (or any other business) here doing more harm than good.

Competition would improve the situation and ultimately benefit Thais.

Compared to Singapore, doing business is a nightmare here. I lost interest in doing so pretty fast.

[rct99q]

"thailand's BIG problem is that it's laws governing those wishing either to teach or set up a school here are FAR TOO RESTRICTIVE or just absurd. Having more rational regulations in place will not open the floodgates to "bad teachers" but will allow those expert in TEFL to set up profitable schools that employ high quality teachers - and to judge by the level of TEFL salaries worldwide without any significant change in cost to the customer."

Not trying to promote TEFL are you? How about experts in CELTA?

I do agree that the Thai system is not making it easy on itself in obtaining the quality of teachers it needs. However as having a university degree does not make a great teacher neither does having a teflon certificate.

So why do you keep promoting them? Me thinks you have a school somewhere.

[nong38]

Thailand's version of English is only available , understood (maybe) and taught in Thailand, outside of the Kingdom the disciples of this form of English will be found wanting. Thai English teachers dont understand it or how to teach it effectively, like many of the foreign teachers, they try try to teach a version to Thai standards.

What they dont understand is that to teach English you first have to teach English English and you have to think like an English person to understand it, applying the Thai culture to English does not work which is why there will be a big surprise in the new year when Asean kicks off.

Edited August 2, 2013 by nong38

[Noistar]

Relax , I included disclaimer early on. ~Line 6.

That's based on what I read, I don't really know &lt;deleted&gt; I'm talking about re: local salaries.

I know private school and university wages in .au from family, but it's like comparing a hose to a donut.

I work in a completely different industry, so I just know what I people tell me, or I read about.

RE: Comparing favourably

http://www.seek.com.au/

so ~$40-50 - 70-100 AUD / hour for English tuition/training.

1000 - 3000 baht / hour.

A basic teaching job, at 30kaud/year = 70k baht/month.

What are the rates here like ?

My understanding was that 30 - 60k/month was average for full time teacher.

I would also have to disagree with your self assessment of your communication abilities if the image of Thailand that you describe above is the one you intended.

Noted.

Interested to hear what image I've described that you take issue with, as , criticism aside, it's fundamentally positive.

That's why I live here

I was interested in the links to find that the defence voiced by some people, for Thais not communicating in English, is because we don't communicate in Thai!

Perhaps the first world has better things to do with its time than learn a complex, one-nation language. Thailand needs the English-speaking world, more than the English-speaking world needs Thailand.

If posters haven't read the links, I'd recommend them to peruse them. I had to laugh at the 'good morning teacher...... ' rote!

[wilcopops]

Thailand's version of English is only available , understood (maybe) and taught in Thailand, outside of the Kingdom the disciples of this form of English will be found wanting. Thai English teachers dont understand it or how to teach it effectively, like many of the foreign teachers, they try try to teach a version to Thai standards.

What they dont understand is that to teach English you first have to teach English English and you have to think like an English person to understand it, applying the Thai culture to English does not work which is why there will be a big surprise in the new year when Asean kicks off.

What do you mean by "English English"????? there are many sub-strains of the English language

Edited August 15, 2013 by wilcopops

[MaxLee]

Thailand's version of English is only available , understood (maybe) and taught in Thailand, outside of the Kingdom the disciples of this form of English will be found wanting. Thai English teachers dont understand it or how to teach it effectively, like many of the foreign teachers, they try try to teach a version to Thai standards.

What they dont understand is that to teach English you first have to teach English English and you have to think like an English person to understand it, applying the Thai culture to English does not work which is why there will be a big surprise in the new year when Asean kicks off.

BEFORE even thinking about teaching Anything about so called academic high advanced stuff, teaching behavior should come first in line, which unfortunately is sadly overlooked, ignored and frowned upon.

Unfortunately, kids in Thailand are pushed so hard to remember any sort of useless information, that the morals and ethics about caring for one another goes down their mental hill. And then if you were a kid, would you still wanna study English, when in real life you are fighting social status issues, bullying, arrogant parents, uncles and aunts and tons of useless homework all day long??? I mean really???

[isawasnake]

Monkeys from the last Planet of the apes had better English. I think if we taught them to sign we'd have better luck. They just don't care about English or learning, I am sure due in great part to the fact that they can't fail in school. Monkeys deciding the fate of their offspring, and this is the result.