Thailand's English Skills Lowest In S E A

[Soutpeel]

The problem in Thailand is poor or non English speakers working as English teachers.

Then of course we have expats with no qualifications trying to teach.

I speak from experience having paid years of English lessons for a son who claims the teachers either don't turn up or arrive for 20 minutes to let the class get on with it.

Like traffic laws and everything else it money in the hand and Mai Pen Rai.

Another thing to consider IMHO is.....English is not being taught.....grammar is being taught....being taught grammar doesnt really help you converse or communicate in a language fluently...think of it this way...did your mummy and daddy teach you grammer when you were learning to read and write ?...no....

the vast majority of 1st languge English speakers wouldnt know the difference between an adjective and an adverb...therefore if one is being force fed grammatical rules in their English lessons, one can well understand why people lose interest...

Hands up who hated grammar lessons in English class ?..I know I did and was thrown out of the class on more than one occassion, but my hatred of grammar has not prevented me communicating in the English language...therefore the question would be...is it really nessecary to teach someone grammar for that person to communicate functionally English ?....I think not

[Thai at Heart]

Our son who was educated and lived in the west speaks perfect english also reads and writes it ,he has been in uni for a year and has already had two job offers from large companys when he leaves ,both say that its his mastery of the English language that they are after,as he would have to deal with people from all around the world ,who use it . so you obviously need english to get on .

I have placed two Thai's with good English in Bangkok into international companies within seconds of picking up the phone to friends. They are all desperate for fluent English speakers with degrees and Thai passports.

Congratulations on your success

You state the exact point - the ability to speak and otherwise communicate in English, rather than just a piece of paper. If ability was the criterion, rather than the 'degree', perhaps things might slowly begin to change. You can't buy competence, although I'm sure that wont be a barrier!

Well they've done OK so far.

I did it as a family friend to help them out. Good kids.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts deleted.

[wilcopops]

My case is stated, you8 are simply spouting your own prejudices

The problem in Thailand is poor or non English speakers working as English teachers.

Then of course we have expats with no qualifications trying to teach.

I speak from experience having paid years of English lessons for a son who claims the teachers either don't turn up or arrive for 20 minutes to let the class get on with it.

Like traffic laws and everything else it money in the hand and Mai Pen Rai.

Another thing to consider IMHO is.....English is not being taught.....grammar is being taught....being taught grammar doesnt really help you converse or communicate in a language fluently...think of it this way...did your mummy and daddy teach you grammer when you were learning to read and write ?...no....

the vast majority of 1st languge English speakers wouldnt know the difference between an adjective and an adverb...therefore if one is being force fed grammatical rules in their English lessons, one can well understand why people lose interest...

Hands up who hated grammar lessons in English class ?..I know I did and was thrown out of the class on more than one occassion, but my hatred of grammar has not prevented me communicating in the English language...therefore the question would be...is it really nessecary to teach someone grammar for that person to communicate functionally English ?....I think not

If you learn a language from birth or by immersion, grammar isn't really that important as in theory as you will pick it up as you go along - a lot of people here for instance don't actually use very good English grammar (because they don't understand it) and they certainly couldn't explain any of it.....however if you are trying to get someone to learn a second language it sometimes pays to teach the grammar of that language .... (I wouldn't trust a teacher who wasn't aware of the grammar - whether they taught it or not)

It is important to know that there are many different types of learner and explaining grammar can save a huge amount of time with some students - this is by no means a blanket solution.

i studied grammar in English, French and Latin and it paid off huge dividends firstly in leaning other European Languages and later in setting me up for other non-Eropean languages that have totally different grammar systems. It basically gives me the building blocks to construct whatever I need to say....rather than slinging out a stream of Malapropisms that I've learned aurally.

Edited July 9, 2013 by wilcopops

[Issangeorge]

More and more so recently, I have noticed FARANG teachers are adopting THAI ways in the disipline department. Yes, I know, it is horrific. This is what I have seen, God help them all. Poor little students, I feel f

or them. This aint getting better anytime soon, seems to be getting worse.

That is because the students evaluate the teachers so if he/she wants to keep their job they don't discipline the stuldents. Remember sanuk, sanuk.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited July 9, 2013 by Issangeorge

[wilcopops]

More and more so recently, I have noticed FARANG teachers are adopting THAI ways in the disipline department. Yes, I know, it is horrific. This is what I have seen, God help them all. Poor little students, I feel f

or them. This aint getting better anytime soon, seems to be getting worse.

That is because the students evaluate the teachers so if he/she wants to keep their job they don't discipline the stuldents. Remember sanuk, sanuk.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

More and more so recently, I have noticed FARANG teachers are adopting THAI ways in the disipline department. Yes, I know, it is horrific. This is what I have seen, God help them all. Poor little students, I feel f

or them. This aint getting better anytime soon, seems to be getting worse.

That is because the students evaluate the teachers so if he/she wants to keep their job they don't discipline the stuldents. Remember sanuk, sanuk.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Sorry I don't get the second comment - and I'd like to hear some more about the first.......

[Krabi King]

A headline that sadly enough keeps turning up.Unacceptable if you ask me, having the biggest tourist industry in the region.

[wilcopops]

A headline that sadly enough keeps turning up.Unacceptable if you ask me, having the biggest tourist industry in the region.

True - tourism is about 7% of the Thai economy - which is huge for tourism, EL is far more important in other areas; commerce, IT, industry, science, medicine aviation all require a GOOD knowledge of English - however in many cases THEY have to pay for it and train their own employees - so many come out of education and training with insufficient language skills and training in EL at work is hardly ever as good as a course at a college. It is in the country's interest to train these people.

[trainman34014]

Been here a good while and seen a lot of funny things; and some not so funny. Had to have a laugh out loud last week when we decided to take some friends out to lunch at a Resort/ Restaurant on the way to Samoeng, an eating place we had not been to before but looked very nice on its website.

Beautiful positioned place, lovely ambiance, friendly staff but not a single word of English understood by anyone including boss lady. Strange; when the website proclaims this abode as 'An International Venue'. The menu arrives, loose leaf, untidy thing with items listed in Thai and supposedly English. Well; i'm used to the regular spelling mistakes but this lot was riddled including the heading of one page 'Intlernatonal Menu'. Such items as 'Delciius Flish and Chlips' and 'Burgar in Buns' made me laugh out loud and my Indian Guest could not believe what he was trying to read. He has only been in Thailand a few months and is quite appalled at how little English is spoken here. The session ended with us trying to make the Thai's understand how to put a few words right but boss lady couldn't understand anything other than what our Thai women were telling her, but of course they didn't want her to 'lose face', so they didn't contribute much of use.

Just to add that the food was not very good....Flucking Lubbish actually ! Oh; and a bottle of Chang was 100 Baht, so that kills it entirely.

Edited July 15, 2013 by trainman34014

[wilcopops]

Been here a good while and seen a lot of funny things; and some not so funny. Had to have a laugh out loud last week when we decided to take some friends out to lunch at a Resort/ Restaurant on the way to Samoeng, an eating place we had not been to before but looked very nice on its website.

Beautiful positioned place, lovely ambiance, friendly staff but not a single word of English understood by anyone including boss lady. Strange; when the website proclaims this abode as 'An International Venue'. The menu arrives, loose leaf, untidy thing with items listed in Thai and supposedly English. Well; i'm used to the regular spelling mistakes but this lot was riddled including the heading of one page 'Intlernatonal Menu'. Such items as 'Delciius Flish and Chlips' and 'Burgar in Buns' made me laugh out loud and my Indian Guest could not believe what he was trying to read. He has only been in Thailand a few months and is quite appalled at how little English is spoken here. The session ended with us trying to make the Thai's understand how to put a few words right but boss lady couldn't understand anything other than what our Thai women were telling her, but of course they didn't want her to 'lose face', so they didn't contribute much of use.

Just to add that the food was not very good....Flucking Lubbish actually ! Oh; and a bottle of Chang was 100 Baht, so that kills it entirely.

I'm not sure that howlers on menus is a particularly good way of judging a nation's EL standards.

We've all seen howlers on menus everywhere in the world - in fact I'd say they are part of the fun.........and now that Google translate is about it gets even funnier - Thailand is certainly not alone in this.....in fact the country whose menus made me laugh the most was Spain......all this really tells us is that working people in kitchens don't know how to use a dictionary......a problem I suspect that many farangs suffer from too.

[radiochaser]

I think expats in Thailand relish this kind of survey result, but of course they aren't interested in looking into it further, much better to sit back and say "I told you so" as if they have some in depth knowledge of the cutlural ins-andouts of language leaning and a detailed knowledge of language teaching - suddenly everyone's an expert?

Singapore - ex- British colony

Malaysia - ex-British colony

Philippines - ex - US colony

Indonesia and Thailand not a lot of difference apart from the fat Idonesia had Dutch and English influences

How about Cambodia , Laos and Vietnam? French influence there.

I do not know about now, but during the time frame of 1966-1973, they all communicated in French. But, then, the French had only been gone for less than 20 years.

[wilcopops]

I think expats in Thailand relish this kind of survey result, but of course they aren't interested in looking into it further, much better to sit back and say "I told you so" as if they have some in depth knowledge of the cutlural ins-andouts of language leaning and a detailed knowledge of language teaching - suddenly everyone's an expert?

Singapore - ex- British colony

Malaysia - ex-British colony

Philippines - ex - US colony

Indonesia and Thailand not a lot of difference apart from the fat Idonesia had Dutch and English influences

How about Cambodia , Laos and Vietnam? French influence there.

I do not know about now, but during the time frame of 1966-1973, they all communicated in French. But, then, the French had only been gone for less than 20 years.

If you go to Laos now, many people still speak really good French. In the hotel I stay in in Luang Prabang, I normally converse with the manager (age about 35) in French as it is his best foreign Language. You will also find coffee and bread far superior to anything available in Thailand - a French legacy. In Cambodia in Siam Reap I noticed that not only are the street names are in French (same as Laos) but also the layout of the town is in classic French style.

yet these countries seem to manage a higher standard of English - at least in the tourist industry in face to face usage.

French used to be (and in some cases still is) the INternational Language - all treaties were written in French. It was also the official language of the Treaty of Rome - (EU) - but much to their "chagrin" - it has been displaced by English. This was not the result of legislation but a natural and organic change that arose out of popular usage.

This seems to me to show how IMPORTANT english is as a lingua franca in almost any international situation.......as you can see I've used several words and phrases from other languages which you will now find in any English dictionary. THis is of course one of the reason wht English is such a useful language - it is infinitely flexible and adaptable to almost any circumstances.

[Pinair]

just a idea

When tourist enter the country, you have to wait at immigration, it usually takes 45-60 min.

Give them a tablet with Rosetta Stone crash curse in Thai ! Problem solved.

I believe the Thai way is, if Thai ppl. don't want to speak English, the hole world need to learn Thai.

[edgarfriendly]

let them wallow in their blissful ignorance!

we only lose our minds and waste our time trying to help them while they make zero effort to help themselves.

(other than by lying/stealing/extorting)

[Noistar]

just a idea

When tourist enter the country, you have to wait at immigration, it usually takes 45-60 min.

Give them a tablet with Rosetta Stone crash curse in Thai ! Problem solved.

I believe the Thai way is, if Thai ppl. don't want to speak English, the hole world need to learn Thai.

Would fit in with the country's obsession of not looking up.

I often get the impression they want to drag Farang down to their level, rather than use us as a means of improving their lives.

Apart from new cars, big houses etc, Thais want everything to stay the same.

"Why did you come to Thailand if you don't want to be like the Thais?". "Oh, I need 10,000 baht"

Humblest etc

[wilcopops]

I think expats in Thailand relish this kind of survey result, but of course they aren't interested in looking into it further, much better to sit back and say "I told you so" as if they have some in depth knowledge of the cutlural ins-andouts of language leaning and a detailed knowledge of language teaching - suddenly everyone's an expert?

Singapore - ex- British colony

Malaysia - ex-British colony

Philippines - ex - US colony

Indonesia and Thailand not a lot of difference apart from the fat Idonesia had Dutch and English influences

How about Cambodia , Laos and Vietnam? French influence there.

What is your point?

[Noistar]

I was interested when I met a Chinese lady on a songtaow, to find out she was a teacher at a government school. We held a good conversation in English. She teaches Chinese, speaks no Thai, and communicates in English with her classes.and the other teachers.

The Government's obsession with teaching a language which is probably of little benefit, is probably part of the reason why emphasis isn't placed on an international language.

[jpinx]

I think expats in Thailand relish this kind of survey result, but of course they aren't interested in looking into it further, much better to sit back and say "I told you so" as if they have some in depth knowledge of the cutlural ins-andouts of language leaning and a detailed knowledge of language teaching - suddenly everyone's an expert?

Singapore - ex- British colony

Malaysia - ex-British colony

Philippines - ex - US colony

Indonesia and Thailand not a lot of difference apart from the fat Idonesia had Dutch and English influences

How about Cambodia , Laos and Vietnam? French influence there.

I do not know about now, but during the time frame of 1966-1973, they all communicated in French. But, then, the French had only been gone for less than 20 years.

I was impressed in Laos and especially in Cambodia with how many older people out in the sticks could hold a decent conversation in French. Younger folks there are struggling with English, in the same way as Thailand is.

[wilcopops]

I was interested when I met a Chinese lady on a songtaow, to find out she was a teacher at a government school. We held a good conversation in English. She teaches Chinese, speaks no Thai, and communicates in English with her classes.and the other teachers.

The Government's obsession with teaching a language which is probably of little benefit, is probably part of the reason why emphasis isn't placed on an international language.

Sorry cann you explain that - your English doesn't make sense - WHICH language is of little benefit and WHICH language is an "international" one?

[wilcopops]

I think expats in Thailand relish this kind of survey result, but of course they aren't interested in looking into it further, much better to sit back and say "I told you so" as if they have some in depth knowledge of the cutlural ins-andouts of language leaning and a detailed knowledge of language teaching - suddenly everyone's an expert?

Singapore - ex- British colony

Malaysia - ex-British colony

Philippines - ex - US colony

Indonesia and Thailand not a lot of difference apart from the fat Idonesia had Dutch and English influences

How about Cambodia , Laos and Vietnam? French influence there.

I do not know about now, but during the time frame of 1966-1973, they all communicated in French. But, then, the French had only been gone for less than 20 years.

I was impressed in Laos and especially in Cambodia with how many older people out in the sticks could hold a decent conversation in French. Younger folks there are struggling with English, in the same way as Thailand is.

OK - now how have you come to this conclusion - are you well-versed in the amounts of people and teaching in both countries have you some kind of yardstick? I take i Or like so many otherst you are also fluent in French and able to assess the elderly across Laos too? Or are you just putting 2 and 2 together and making any number that comes into your head?

[jpinx]

--------------

Would fit in with the country's obsession of not looking up.

I often get the impression they want to drag Farang down to their level, rather than use us as a means of improving their lives.

-----------------------

I think you are correct here. Thai's seem to be more obsessed with how good thailand is and they like to think they need nothing from outside Thailand - apart from cars, computers, and wads of cash

Many people I have attempted to teach English have 2 basic problems - one is their subconcious unwillingness to learn a language when they can already speak Thai and it is the "best" language in their eyes, and the other problem is that they hate to put themselves in a "lower" position than me - no matter how friendly and polite I am. There is a perception that they demean themselves in some way and this makes group teaching a painful experience. Teaching individually has produced some good results by using conversations about cultures, languages, world geography, etc as topics.

As an aside -- I have yet to find a Thai who can put their finger on the major countries on a world map.

[Scott]

I have taught for quite a number of years. Thais don't have any more trouble learning English than does any other nationality. Many of the problems with young learners are structural problems in the education system and have nothing really to do with the fundamental ability of Thai children to learn.

Adults are about the same the world over. The most important variable is motivation. The motivation can because they need to learn English to advance their career or for other reasons. There are some cultural variations, but these are normal for any group.

There is also the differences between English and Thai, which is known as linguistic distance. The two languages are very different from one another with different sounds, different writing systems, and other significant differences. This makes English a little more challenging for Thais (and some other languages which are very distant).

The final factor is that most Thais just do not get much of an opportunity to use English and this means it's difficult to reinforce and retain the language. In spite of what we may think, the majority of Thai people simply do not come into contact with farangs on a regular basis nor do they run into English being used.

Thailand now is moving toward universal education for children which generally means that the scores will trend downward. Some years back, education was for the elite and the very bright. The average child from a poor family would simply not be accorded a full high school education unless he showed exceptional ability. With universal schooling, poorer students will stay in school longer, thus bringing down test scores somewhat.

[jpinx]

I have taught for quite a number of years. Thais don't have any more trouble learning English than does any other nationality. Many of the problems with young learners are structural problems in the education system and have nothing really to do with the fundamental ability of Thai children to learn.

Adults are about the same the world over. The most important variable is motivation. The motivation can because they need to learn English to advance their career or for other reasons. There are some cultural variations, but these are normal for any group.

There is also the differences between English and Thai, which is known as linguistic distance. The two languages are very different from one another with different sounds, different writing systems, and other significant differences. This makes English a little more challenging for Thais (and some other languages which are very distant).

The final factor is that most Thais just do not get much of an opportunity to use English and this means it's difficult to reinforce and retain the language. In spite of what we may think, the majority of Thai people simply do not come into contact with farangs on a regular basis nor do they run into English being used.

Thailand now is moving toward universal education for children which generally means that the scores will trend downward. Some years back, education was for the elite and the very bright. The average child from a poor family would simply not be accorded a full high school education unless he showed exceptional ability. With universal schooling, poorer students will stay in school longer, thus bringing down test scores somewhat.

I'd agree and I have seen the same happen in other countries like Peru where I lived and casually taught English for a few years.

The real nub of the problem - form the educational point of view - is the number of English teachers in Thailand who can not speak English at all. Students are taught by rote and there is no example to copy.

There are many other problems associated with the administration and politics of education, but enough already

[jpinx]

I was impressed in Laos and especially in Cambodia with how many older people out in the sticks could hold a decent conversation in French. Younger folks there are struggling with English, in the same way as Thailand is.

OK - now how have you come to this conclusion - are you well-versed in the amounts of people and teaching in both countries have you some kind of yardstick? I take i Or like so many otherst you are also fluent in French and able to assess the elderly across Laos too? Or are you just putting 2 and 2 together and making any number that comes into your head?

Methinks your response is somewhat arrogant, but for the sake of the discussion at hand I can only say that my admittedly subjective comments were made based on my experiences travelling around both countries alone in buses and other public transport. The vast majority of older people who offered me their help would slip into French very easily. My own French is a bit rusty now, but was fluent enough when I was working in Egypt 25 years ago and had to work in Arabic, French, German and English as part of my job.

2 + 2 = 4

even on ThaiVisa

[radiochaser]

I was impressed in Laos and especially in Cambodia with how many older people out in the sticks could hold a decent conversation in French. Younger folks there are struggling with English, in the same way as Thailand is.

OK - now how have you come to this conclusion - are you well-versed in the amounts of people and teaching in both countries have you some kind of yardstick? I take i Or like so many otherst you are also fluent in French and able to assess the elderly across Laos too? Or are you just putting 2 and 2 together and making any number that comes into your head?

wilcopops, if jpinx is addressing the fluency of some of the older generation of Lao and Cambodian people, then it just may be that they are fluent in the French language, both written and spoken. Some of the Lao, Cambodian, and Vietnamese were educated in France at higher institutions of knowledge. I do not know about Lao or Cambodian people, but I do know that some Vietnamese people are qualified to teach the French language to those that wish to learn it.

The Lao, Vietnamese and Cambodians that did go to France to University, would have become fluent in French before leaving "French Indo China". French was taught in many schools in French Indo China and was widely spoken here. The French were here after all, from some time in the mid to late 1800's (I believe, too lazy to google it) until they were chased out by the Vietnamese about 10 years after the French returned to French Indo China at the end of World War Two.

The United States had French linguists in Vietnam, Thailand, and the Philippines to translate the communications between Laos, Cambodia and (at the time) the North Vietnamese government. I witnessed some of the French linguist speaking with Vietnamese in French, when neither could speak a word of the others native language (English/Vietnamese).

I used to know refugees from Laos who lived in the United States that could speak French better than they could speak English. I took a class in History of Vietnam in a junior college from a professor that was from Vietnam. (I was his first student that was not of Vietnamese decent) He also taught classes in French language for those wishing to learn how to speak French.

To summarize, a lot of these people could speak French very well because Laos, Cambodia, and Vietnam were occupied by the French for many years before they left!

And no, I do not speak French.

[wilcopops]

I was impressed in Laos and especially in Cambodia with how many older people out in the sticks could hold a decent conversation in French. Younger folks there are struggling with English, in the same way as Thailand is.

OK - now how have you come to this conclusion - are you well-versed in the amounts of people and teaching in both countries have you some kind of yardstick? I take i Or like so many otherst you are also fluent in French and able to assess the elderly across Laos too? Or are you just putting 2 and 2 together and making any number that comes into your head?

Methinks your response is somewhat arrogant, but for the sake of the discussion at hand I can only say that my admittedly subjective comments were made based on my experiences travelling around both countries alone in buses and other public transport. The vast majority of older people who offered me their help would slip into French very easily. My own French is a bit rusty now, but was fluent enough when I was working in Egypt 25 years ago and had to work in Arabic, French, German and English as part of my job.

2 + 2 = 4

even on ThaiVisa

unfortunately there are far too many people who draw conclusions (pseudo-linguists and educationalists) from purely siubject perspective and then think they are conrtributing to the discussion by posting this kind of nonsense.

Edited July 22, 2013 by wilcopops

[harrry]

I think expats in Thailand relish this kind of survey result, but of course they aren't interested in looking into it further, much better to sit back and say "I told you so" as if they have some in depth knowledge of the cutlural ins-andouts of language leaning and a detailed knowledge of language teaching - suddenly everyone's an expert?

Singapore - ex- British colony

Malaysia - ex-British colony

Philippines - ex - US colony

Indonesia and Thailand not a lot of difference apart from the fat Idonesia had Dutch and English influences

And finally, Aung San Suu Kyi 'whilst not your 'normal Burmese' has a command of English that would put many Oxford grads to shame.

The problem in Thailand is that parents don't see the need for their children to learn/speak English consequently not many do/or are proficient in the language.

Aung San Suu Kyi is an Oxford Graduate and spent most of her life in England until her father died.

[balo]

I have just been to Seoul, S-Korea and everyone understand and speak English there. I think they learn it at school from early age.

Edited July 22, 2013 by balo

[jpinx]

I was impressed in Laos and especially in Cambodia with how many older people out in the sticks could hold a decent conversation in French. Younger folks there are struggling with English, in the same way as Thailand is.

OK - now how have you come to this conclusion - are you well-versed in the amounts of people and teaching in both countries have you some kind of yardstick? I take i Or like so many otherst you are also fluent in French and able to assess the elderly across Laos too? Or are you just putting 2 and 2 together and making any number that comes into your head?

Methinks your response is somewhat arrogant, but for the sake of the discussion at hand I can only say that my admittedly subjective comments were made based on my experiences travelling around both countries alone in buses and other public transport. The vast majority of older people who offered me their help would slip into French very easily. My own French is a bit rusty now, but was fluent enough when I was working in Egypt 25 years ago and had to work in Arabic, French, German and English as part of my job.

2 + 2 = 4

even on ThaiVisa

unfortunately there are far too many people who draw conclusions (pseudo-linguists and educationalists) from purely siubject perspective and then think they are conrtributing to the discussion by posting this kind of nonsense.

ok - bored with your arrogance now -- time to apply your logic to your post.

Why is it "unfortunate" - surely that is only in your judgement ? What authority do you have to judge that?

How many is "far too many" ? Quote numbers and be precise.

What is a "pseudo-linguist"? Speaking a second language has nothing to do with being a linguist.

Please quote the posts supporting your view.

[Thai at Heart]

I have just been to Seoul, S-Korea and everyone understand and speak English there. I think they learn it at school from early age.

Now that is a biiiig stretch.