Bargirls and Buddha

[ThailandTom1]

'Why do Thai woman who work in the sex industry put statues of Buddha and or spirit houses in their place of business.'

Why not ask THEM?

Me and every body else posting are just guessing.

Thai people have animistic beliefs and they believe that praying and making offerings to kuman tong, Nangkuak. นางกวัก or other similar dieties will bring good fortune. they are not praying to Buddha in a bar.

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[SinglePot]

OK OP?

Or are we still guessing and possibly criticising?

[muythai2013]

'Why do Thai woman who work in the sex industry put statues of Buddha and or spirit houses in their place of business.'

Why not ask THEM?

Me and every body else posting are just guessing.

I have, you can't get a straight answer from them, they simply say for luck, that is again against Buddha's teaching as well.

Before everyone who scours every post looking for ammo jumps on me, I don't go to bars or brothels, but I do talk to them if there around, i'm not above them.

My friend has 3 of those side walk bars near cowboy, they don't really know much more then good luck bad luck.

[muythai2013]

'Why do Thai woman who work in the sex industry put statues of Buddha and or spirit houses in their place of business.'

Why not ask THEM?

Me and every body else posting are just guessing.

Thai people have animistic beliefs and they believe that praying and making offerings to kuman tong, Nangkuak. นางกวัก or other similar dieties will bring good fortune. they are not praying to Buddha in a bar.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

so your sure about that yes, ok.

Those places that have the big one in the front, about 7 foot tall must be Buddhas twin, my mistake.

[steinghan]

In any case, there are no grounds to single out the profession of bargirls as being particularly against the Buddha's teaching. Not if we by "Buddha's teachings" mean his words as expressed in the Pali suttas, rather than somebody's personal opinions on the matter. In the Vanijja Sutta (AN 5.117) Buddha said:

"Monks, a lay follower should not engage in five types of business. Which five? Business in weapons, business in human beings, business in meat, business in intoxicants, and business in poison.

"These are the five types of business that a lay follower should not engage in."

That's about as close as Buddha got in explicitly naming the professions in breach of "right livelihood" in the sense of the 8-fold path. While it may be argued that a prostitute, having sex for money, is doing "business in human beings" it doesn't seem quite as clearcut a breach as human trafficking or a barowner employing / accomodating bargirls in order to increase his income - not to mention making his living on promoting and selling alcohol, which is directly in opposition to the 5.th precept about intoxication because it encourages others to foolishly breach it. Obviously anyone, making any kind of income on bargirls, are much more in breach of Buddha's teaching than the bargirls, because while the latter only "abuse" her own body, the former all make money on abusing other human beings. - And no, it's no excuse that the girls have "chosen" to be in the bar or related business themselves - the fact remains: the barowners etc. are making their income on doing "business in human beings" and thus certainly do not live by the Buddha' words.

Actually, the same kind of conciderations go for many, many other occupations in human society. E.g. owners and shareholders of supermarkets selling meat (just to mention one seemingly "innocent" example) because they make / increase their income by promoting / selling meat. (This opposed to the employes putting stuff on the shelves / handling the checkout and get the same salary regardless of what they are handling - at least as long as they don't accept an extra bonus for checking out meats).

I didn't want to preach Buddhist right livelihood - just wanted to point out that if someone where to make a list of professions in breach of Buddha's bare words about right livelihood - sorted by severity (descending) - prostitution wouldn't be anywhere near the top.

[ThailandTom1]

'Why do Thai woman who work in the sex industry put statues of Buddha and or spirit houses in their place of business.'

Why not ask THEM?

Me and every body else posting are just guessing.

Thai people have animistic beliefs and they believe that praying and making offerings to kuman tong, Nangkuak. นางกวัก or other similar dieties will bring good fortune. they are not praying to Buddha in a bar.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

so your sure about that yes, ok.

Those places that have the big one in the front, about 7 foot tall must be Buddhas twin, my mistake.

Those big shrines you mention are not Buddha but the image of the Hindu god Brahma depicted with 4 heads. This shrine is only ever used by businesses.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[rockyysdt]

In any case, there are no grounds to single out the profession of bargirls as being particularly against the Buddha's teaching. Not if we by "Buddha's teachings" mean his words as expressed in the Pali suttas, rather than somebody's personal opinions on the matter. In the Vanijja Sutta (AN 5.117) Buddha said:

"Monks, a lay follower should not engage in five types of business. Which five? Business in weapons, business in human beings, business in meat, business in intoxicants, and business in poison.

"These are the five types of business that a lay follower should not engage in."

That's about as close as Buddha got in explicitly naming the professions in breach of "right livelihood" in the sense of the 8-fold path. While it may be argued that a prostitute, having sex for money, is doing "business in human beings" it doesn't seem quite as clearcut a breach as human trafficking or a barowner employing / accomodating bargirls in order to increase his income - not to mention making his living on promoting and selling alcohol, which is directly in opposition to the 5.th precept about intoxication because it encourages others to foolishly breach it. Obviously anyone, making any kind of income on bargirls, are much more in breach of Buddha's teaching than the bargirls, because while the latter only "abuse" her own body, the former all make money on abusing other human beings. - And no, it's no excuse that the girls have "chosen" to be in the bar or related business themselves - the fact remains: the barowners etc. are making their income on doing "business in human beings" and thus certainly do not live by the Buddha' words.

Actually, the same kind of conciderations go for many, many other occupations in human society. E.g. owners and shareholders of supermarkets selling meat (just to mention one seemingly "innocent" example) because they make / increase their income by promoting / selling meat. (This opposed to the employes putting stuff on the shelves / handling the checkout and get the same salary regardless of what they are handling - at least as long as they don't accept an extra bonus for checking out meats).

I didn't want to preach Buddhist right livelihood - just wanted to point out that if someone where to make a list of professions in breach of Buddha's bare words about right livelihood - sorted by severity (descending) - prostitution wouldn't be anywhere near the top.

Well put.

Not to mention fast food chains which promote high fat, high sugar, low fibre junk food which is formulated to addict customers into a path of obesity which has become the malaise of western society and responsible for morbidity, health issues and shortened life expectancy.

[rubberduck]

I was in a decent massageshop in Luangprabang a while ago. Before the massage started, a little curtain was pulled around the spirithouse on the wall to cover it.

[SinglePot]

Anybody got a suitable punch line......or are you waiting for me?

[bankei]

I was a Monk 2 times.

I find this hard to believe.

[iancnx]

It seems the OP meant well but was not specific enough in his question. It seems he misunderstood that actually the Buddha image is not actually being disrespected. It seems he could have stopped posting but decided to go on and on.

I am grateful to others contributions though.... I have learnt a lot!

[manarak]

well, OP has been banned.

[Tchooptip]

Yes, no idea for the basis of the question, like asking why Catholic sex workers practice their religion?

If you think there's some sort of conflict between being religious and working in the sex industry, what about bankers, lawyers, politicians, soldiers and police, other mafia gangsters? Seems more conflicts there.

would a sex shop post a giant crucifix out front.

Worship yes, but there is a time and place, you don't put them in a sex shop, It does not even fit in to the teachings so it's counter productive anyway.

First not sure one can compare the sex perception of Buddhists an Christians, yes for Christians out of marriage it's a sin plus a shame, so OK I admit a crucifix in a sex shop would "probably" be out of place, a statue of lord Buddha in a bar with bar girl... I read some of your post and thought you knew better why many bar girls...are bar girls, some had little choice, so who told you some of them bar girls do not prey every day to get out of it?

[Tchooptip]

On another note, can everyone please stop acting like Bargirls don't have a choice, 90% of them don't have to be there.

we need to establish some honesty before we can talk sensibly, they do it because they don't wish to work long hard hours for less money, Greed/laziness/no morals.

My daughter in law has 2 jobs, works her day time for a plastic surgeon 9000 Bahts a month, every evening/night in a restaurant +or- 8000 a month, needless to tell you how tired she is most of the time, luckily she do not have to help her family...anyhow she could hardly with this money, and when you(dare) say "they do it because they don't wish to work long hard hours for less money, Greed/laziness/no morals". I wonder how old are you (psychologically at least, sorry) in north some still works for 250 Bahts a day, so should those girls have such a job they could hardly feed themselves and certainly not send money to anyone, so your words "Greed/laziness/no morals" are totally, totally inappropriate! I can hardly believe you know (understand) anything about this country, on the other hand you'r probably honest and I have no doubts sooner than later you'll change your mind, at least I hope so

[Tchooptip]

well, OP has been banned.

I guess not for this topic...

sorry not sure I had the right...too late I clicked

but a 1 satang's question, topic not close? I understand he can still come as a guest

[SinglePot]

I was a Monk 2 times.

I find this hard to believe.

Maybe he'll come back as a Monk.

[Nuna]

Almost all house and building in Thailand have a space for spirit house. We invite an angel ( who was a human before and had done ...I don't know how to say ****Thai language removed, this is the English language side of the forum, if you would like to post using Thai language, you can do so in the Thai language forum**** + most purified 5 precepts when he/she was alive. So in Buddhist's belief everyone can be angel ups to how much marit you have done in your life) to watch our houses. It's nothing to do with house owner's career.

Edited July 21, 2013 by metisdead
Removed Thai language.

[Nuna]

So prostitutes should be denied religion? They probably strongly depend on religion to give them hope.

Prostitution is the consequence for those who had sexual misconduct in previous life.

Buddha didn't deny bargirls. He said everyone can be enlightened no matter how much sin he is. As long as he realize that life is nothing but suffering, he has equal chance to achieve the enlightment.

[NanLaew]

Prostitution is the consequence for those who had sexual misconduct in previous life.

.....

Oh no!

You mean I am ALWAYS gonna be a rent boy?

Say is isn't so!

PLEASE!!!!

[ChrisB87]

This thread is completely ridiculous.

The Buddha said all forms of sensual pleasure are harmful to us (not just sexual)

Desire in general

Why don't we just bad mouth everyone who indulges in pleasure?

The Buddha would feel compassion for their and our suffering.

The Buddha wouldn't care if you pointed your foot at him (it's just a Thai social norm not to, whereas having intercourse in the next room, incidentally, is.

Edited August 21, 2013 by ChrisB87

[poanoi]

Someone enlighten me in the way of buddhism:

how is a pubic hair thrown in a half glass of whiskey and run three laps around the stage

going to promote more punters paying barfine and/or drinks ?

[rockyysdt]

So prostitutes should be denied religion? They probably strongly depend on religion to give them hope.

Prostitution is the consequence for those who had sexual misconduct in previous life.

Buddha didn't deny bargirls. He said everyone can be enlightened no matter how much sin he is. As long as he realize that life is nothing but suffering, he has equal chance to achieve the enlightment.

I have come across such beliefs before.

The alignment of misdeeds with specific future fruits of kharma (vipaka), in this case, specific forms of suffering.

• Kharmic fruit of Sexual Misconduct = To suffer in a future life as a Prostitute.
• Kharmic fruit of Abortion = To suffer in a future life with digestive problems such as IBS.
• Kharmic fruit of Killing = To suffer in a future life with missing limbs.

Two of these were explained by a Bangkok Monk who then received a plain envelope with money enclosed.

The Monk himself had genetic issues with his arms.

He declined to indicate his misdeeds.

This must be Animism/Superstition and nothing to do with what the Buddha taught.

Every sex worker will have a different experience in their life.

To say that all suffer due to their vocation is to lack awareness.

In terms of the Spirit House bringing good luck.

This is superstition and nothing to do with Buddhist practice.

In terms of prostitutes reaching out to the Buddha, his refuge (the Triple Gem) is open to travelers of all vocations.

Edited August 22, 2013 by rockyysdt