Selling gold - taxes

[roban]

I recently moved from Kao Noi, where my house had a separate water tank with pump, to Soi NPW (no tank).

The tap-water at Soi Neurn Plub Wan, smells and tastes extremely like chlorine, compared to my former house.

I am aware about the water "Quality" in TH, especially Pattaya.

But this is too much for my taste.

Anything I could do? (Except moving again).

Would an additional filter help?

Or a separate water tank?

[simple1]

I live off Soi Nernplubwan and have a weekly delivery of two ten litre containers of drinking water - costs 80 baht. Have to say I would never drink the tap water, but each to their own. Some locals have a well that they use to pump water to their house and it tastes fine & I've never got sick. - don't know about heavy chemicals in the well water, but could have it tested

[Spoonman]

I live off Soi Nernplubwan and have a weekly delivery of two ten litre containers of drinking water - costs 80 baht. Have to say I would never drink the tap water, but each to their own. Some locals have a well that they use to pump water to their house and it tastes fine & I've never got sick. - don't know about heavy chemicals in the well water, but could have it tested

Struth that's a bit exxy, Iam getting 3 x 18lt bottles delivered for Bt.120 from Pattaya Water Tech.

As for the tap water Iam up top of Khao Noi and there is zero chlorine smell in my water and I would be highly surprised if we are on a different mains feed to NernPlubWan.

[roban]

There is no "drinking-water" problem, because I would never ever drink tap-water anywhere in TH.

But if one takes a shower and after that, the skin smells like chlorine, or cleaning teeth....not nice.

Even the clothes, I've washed in my washing machine, smell.

Only a big amount of softener "helps" against it.

As for the tap water Iam up top of Khao Noi and there is zero chlorine smell in my water and I would be highly surprised if we are on a different mains feed to NernPlubWan.

But seems to be the case...I had no chlorine smell at KaoNoi too. (But could be related to the separate Tank?)

Edited June 15, 2013 by roban

[simple1]

I live off Soi Nernplubwan and have a weekly delivery of two ten litre containers of drinking water - costs 80 baht. Have to say I would never drink the tap water, but each to their own. Some locals have a well that they use to pump water to their house and it tastes fine & I've never got sick. - don't know about heavy chemicals in the well water, but could have it tested

Struth that's a bit exxy, Iam getting 3 x 18lt bottles delivered for Bt.120 from Pattaya Water Tech.

As for the tap water Iam up top of Khao Noi and there is zero chlorine smell in my water and I would be highly surprised if we are on a different mains feed to NernPlubWan.

My error, just looked at the bottles, to be exact 18.9 litres for 40 baht

[Gone]

They need a lot of chlorine in the water in many places in Thailand. Especially Bkk where it is saturated but better to have that then bacteria crawling up your pee spout.

Sure you don't want to drink it although i have several times but like people are saying you just order water for that purpose. Yeah it sucks brushing your teeth with the smelly water but again, better then having micro-organisms growing inside you.

Certain times of year the water treatment plant here on the dark side adds a lot more so for a few days it will be bad but normally after that it gets better. Yet another reason why Thais like to keep a couple of garbage cans full of water for showering in.

[roban]

Certain times of year the water treatment plant here on the dark side adds a lot more so for a few days it will be bad but normally after that it gets better....

Well, I hope so.

Though I will check the chlorine level/smell at Soi Kao Noi in a few minutes...

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Chlorine dissipates fairly rapidly from water.

Put the water into a container and let it sit for 15+ minutes and the chlorine will be gone.

It may be something else you are tasting.

It might be Chloramine which persists for many days. Chloramine is concoction of Chlorine and Ammonia.

There are products that people with aquariums use to neutralize Chloramine

[TommyDee]

we have a well here, and drink and cook with the ater from it, other side of the lake marprachan. but for a long time there was a metallic flavour which came from the tower we have. we fitted a sand style of filter and that cleared it nicely, just have to backwash it monthly like a pool. and in the kitchen a 5 point reverse Oms. filter that runs with a pump gives us great water for drinking and cooking. Tap water from the "mains" here is pretty up and down in quality, but if u added a tank and filter u would probably be quite happy

[oneday]

Too much chlorine in the tap water in my California home so I bought a tap filter and that clear it up. However, in Thailand I buy my water for cooking and drinking, like most people I believe.

[oyster]

They need a lot of chlorine in the water in many places in Thailand. Especially Bkk where it is saturated but better to have that then bacteria crawling up your pee spout.

Sure you don't want to drink it although i have several times but like people are saying you just order water for that purpose. Yeah it sucks brushing your teeth with the smelly water but again, better then having micro-organisms growing inside you.

Certain times of year the water treatment plant here on the dark side adds a lot more so for a few days it will be bad but normally after that it gets better. Yet another reason why Thais like to keep a couple of garbage cans full of water for showering in.

Same same Manila - reason being the chlorine will vent off in a couple of days, also the sediment will settle.

[roban]

I will check the chlorine level/smell at Soi Kao Noi in a few minutes

well, I checked the water in my wife's shop at Soi Kao Noi.

But directly at the outdoor water-tap, which isn't connected to the tank.

I couldn't smell anything.

No chlorine, just nothing.

It might be Chloramine which persists for many days. Chloramine is concoction of Chlorine and Ammonia.

maybe, I really don't know.

I mean, I would buy a tank and a filter, if it's 100% sure, that it will eliminate the smell.

But there seems to be no guarantee (?)

For a quick test I could fill one of our bigger plastic drums with the tap-water and check how it smells the next day.

EDIT:

After googling around Chloramine, I found this interesting picture/article at wikipedia:

I made the water test, like described in the red marked text.

And yes, its greenish. Not that much as on the picture, but it is!

Now, how to get rid of it?

It seems an "Activated carbon" filter is the only affordable option, at least to reduce the amount of Chloramine.

New swimming pool initially filled with tap water treated by the utility with chloramine, demonstrating how chloramine in water exhibits a greenish cast, while pure water is bluish (see Color of water).

This greenish color may also be demonstrated by filling a white polyethylene bucket with chloraminated tap water and comparing it to chloramine-free water such as distilled water, rainwater or a sample from a swimming pool free of chloramine.

Edited June 16, 2013 by roban

[TheSwede99]

I live between Soi Nearn Plub Wan and Soi Siam Country Club Road and it's the same water from the waterworks. Look at the clip below how the water looks like. Would not even shower in it without purifying it first.

Taking water from a well is dangerous given that all toilet tanks passes water into the ground and just keeps the feces.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYLtlRW3zjU

[TommyDee]

I live between Soi Nearn Plub Wan and Soi Siam Country Club Road and it's the same water from the waterworks. Look at the clip below how the water looks like. Would not even shower in it without purifying it first.

Taking water from a well is dangerous given that all toilet tanks passes water into the ground and just keeps the feces.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYLtlRW3zjU

you are in a very populated area, but in general a well is actually a bore hole, so deep that is way beyond the reach of most septic systems. Ours is adjacent to a field. it has also been tested and the water quality is very good. it never runs out and we are not reliant on the city or village supply. give it a hot summer here and the city will be on rationing for water. already it is regularly zoned off to cut areas off at time. and the water u buy in the bowser truck.. well they pump it out of the local river anyway. ( fact). Edited June 17, 2013 by Rimmer
Quote fixed

[Somtamme]

I recently moved from Kao Noi, where my house had a separate water tank with pump, to Soi NPW (no tank).

The tap-water at Soi Neurn Plub Wan, smells and tastes extremely like chlorine, compared to my former house.

I am aware about the water "Quality" in TH, especially Pattaya.

But this is too much for my taste.

Anything I could do? (Except moving again).

Would an additional filter help?

Or a separate water tank?

I work for local authority in UK and have inspected probably over 1000 small private water supplies. We are planning to move to Thailand one day, hence the reason for reading your post and offer of advice.

In UK, regulations prescribe max. concentrations not for chlorine, but for the potentially harmful by-products. So chlorine concentration is carefully managed to ensure effective disinfection, prevent these by-products (halogenated hydrocarbons) and also to prevent complaints like yours from occurring.

If the source water contains ammonia, this will combine with the chlorine to produce chloramines. Chloramines by their nature will tend to last longer than the free residual chlorine, but are also more volatile and so can be responsible for taste and odour complaints. On some occasions ammonia can be dosed into the supply, especially for longer distribution networks to ensure the disinfection remains effective. Ammonia also should not be over the concentration prescribed in the regulations, but also as it can affect disinfection should also not be raised.

Both the normal free residual chlorine and the chloramines will however, reduce naturally with time, so the easy solution is to store the water before use. If I was you, in terms of cost, I'd also purchase a chlorine test kit after installing the tank. The DPD no.1 tablet gives you the concentration of free chlorine, and the no.3 tablet in conjunction with the former, will give you the total chlorine. The total minus the the free will give you the combined chlorine (chloramines). If after installing the tank, the chlorine concentrations remained high you could seek additional treatment like activated carbon. The temperature of the water in the tank must also be less 20 degrees C.

But, the over-riding factor must be to ensure effective disinfection. If you find the free chlorine to fluctuate, to provide reassurance, you could also install UV filter after storage.

[roban]

^^^^

Thanks for your detailed answer

The temperature of the water in the tank must also be less 20 degrees C.

impossible, remember we are talking from Thailand

An underground tank is no option.

I live between Soi Nearn Plub Wan and Soi Siam Country Club Road and it's the same water from the waterworks. Look at the clip below how the water looks like. Would not even shower in it without purifying it first.

Taking water from a well is dangerous given that all toilet tanks passes water into the ground and just keeps the feces.

As mentioned above, I filled water in a white bucket and it's far away from clear and a little bit greenish!

If the water from my preferred swimming-pool would look like this, I would refuse to swim in it.

Ok, now we know it's a Chloramine problem.

But it might not necessarily be crappy bad water from the waterworks, because the water at Soi Kao Noi (parallel road to Neurnplubwan) is much, much better.

I don't know, if the water comes from the same source, but I would assume this.

I know the waterworks at Soi Chaiaporn Vithi (Rd. 3240), but is there not a second one, near Lake Mabprachan?

So I suspect, it could be caused by older rotten or perforated water pipes, especially in our areas.

Combined with older rotten sewage pipes, it will result in a nice mixture => Chloramine!

I noticed this smell from the first day, we moved in.

So I have little to no hope, that it will improve.

[Gone]

Just buy the tank etc. and have the water trucks come to fill them. You could run it through a filtration system for sure. Doesn't hurt

[roban]

^^

Yepp, seems a tank with a filter-system is sufficient.

No need for the water trucks.

The water, that I filled in the bucket yesterday, has now, 24h later, lost 80-90% of it's smell

Water colour is not really clear, but after filtering, it *should* be ok.

Any ideas how much for a tank (1000-1500l?) with pump? (only materials)

Don't want spend too much money, because this house is only rented.

[Somtamme]

^^

Yepp, seems a tank with a filter-system is sufficient.

No need for the water trucks.

The water, that I filled in the bucket yesterday, has now, 24h later, lost 80-90% of it's smell

Water colour is not really clear, but after filtering, it *should* be ok.

Any ideas how much for a tank (1000-1500l?) with pump? (only materials)

Don't want spend too much money, because this house is only rented.

Like I said you must ensure stored water is below 20 degrees C, else there is a risk of legionella. So you must have an insulated tank. In UK they must have relevant BS:EN or equivalent stamp.

[Spoonman]

^^

Yepp, seems a tank with a filter-system is sufficient.

No need for the water trucks.

The water, that I filled in the bucket yesterday, has now, 24h later, lost 80-90% of it's smell

Water colour is not really clear, but after filtering, it *should* be ok.

Any ideas how much for a tank (1000-1500l?) with pump? (only materials)

Don't want spend too much money, because this house is only rented.

Like I said you must ensure stored water is below 20 degrees C, else there is a risk of legionella. So you must have an insulated tank. In UK they must have relevant BS:EN or equivalent stamp.

Don't see many insulated tanks in Thailand and rarely here of any legionella outbreaks.

[roban]

Like I said you must ensure stored water is below 20 degrees C, else there is a risk of legionella. So you must have an insulated tank

No offense, but have you ever been in Thailand?

Even if you have an insulated tank, you would need a massive cooling system to reach < 20 degree.

At least the water-quality seems to be so bad, that even legionellas don't survive..

[Somtamme]

Like I said you must ensure stored water is below 20 degrees C, else there is a risk of legionella. So you must have an insulated tank

No offense, but have you ever been in Thailand?

Even if you have an insulated tank, you would need a massive cooling system to reach < 20 degree.

At least the water-quality seems to be so bad, that even legionellas don't survive..

The main control to reduce risk of Legionella in hot and cold water systems is temperature control with BS 8580 : 2010 the most recent standard. The biggest risk is from other devices (like cooling towers) than hot and cold water systems. But whilst the numbers with this infection appear relatively low (when compared to other illnesses in Thailand e.g. dengue fever), in the vulnerable and more elderly members of society it can be fatal. Its up to you whether you ignore published guidance and live with this risk, as it primarily affects more elderly men than others; http://www.hpa.org.uk/hpr/archives/Infections/2012/respiratory12.htm

[roban]

^^

You didn't answer my question.

Have you ever been in Thailand? Seems no.

Its up to you whether you ignore published guidance and live with this risk, as it primarily affects more elderly men than others

It's not up to me or you, but it's just impossible!

Please tell us your suggestion, to keep the water below 20° ....?

Edited June 19, 2013 by roban

[TommyDee]

the answer is, of course, that you cant. in fact you can exepct a water tank, out of the sun, to be upward of 30 degrees on average. the water is used quickly, as you shower and do laundry and most tanks are not used to avoid Cl. but avoid the numerous water supply cuts and running out. so essentially they are in line tanks not main tanks.

install a filter and pump after the tank, install a drinking water filter in your kitchen and you will be happy. our water is stored underground in a reservoir that then supplied a water tower that is in the blazing sun. that water is then sand filtered and great for washing etc. and i have survived drinking our tap water in the kitchen for 6 years without ....wait a min aaaaaaaaaaaargh even mixes well with scotch

[Somtamme]

Agree with TommyDee in part, but Legionella controls include those in the hot water system as well, making sure temperature is high enough to kill off the opportunistic pathogens. You do not tend to catch the infection from ingestion, but rather from breathing and yes have been Thailand as well as other warm and hot countries. You need an overall water safety plan, including a combination of controls.