Want a new Thai PM? Then vote for someone else

[yoshiwara]

I find it amusing that the only people calling for Abhisit's removal are his opponents. If he was such a liability, would they bother.

I think Abhisit is smart and articulate. I think that if he were a more skilled leader and had the power to implement his policies Thailand would be better for it. But I also think he is a liability for the Democrats now. Fair or not, he gets so much crap thrown at him that some of it has to stick, at least in the minds of many Thais who don't exactly have access to a free, thorough, impartial media environment. I believe that the Democrats would be much more able to control the debate, and would do better at the ballot box, if they had a new leadership team in place.

The Thaksin team are obsessed with Abhisit. Does Abhisit support the removal of Yingluck outside the parliamentary system? No. But if they can tar him with that brush they will do so.

I don't see how you can be so sure.Anecdotally all the evidence points the other way.He seems incapable of winning a national election, so what other routes to power does he have? Now how exactly did he come to power last time round?

As sure as your little difficulty with the Arisman video.

How did he become PM? Parliament. Next question.

[rixalex]

"And that's not to say it is completely without a political slant."

The Amart owned Nation is completely and utterly anti-Thaksin/PTP, that is not to say it is pro Dem.

The Amart owned Nation...

As if all the other national dailies aren't "amart owned"... whatever "amart" means... for red shirt supporters it is just a label to attach to anything they consider as being bad and against them... as they continue supporting and voting for a government that includes one man who drives around in a pink Bentley and a maroon Rolls Royce, valued at 26m, and an assortment of other mega rich hi-so people. But no, nothing elitist or "amartist" about them. Of course not...

[GentlemanJim]

Am I dreaming?

The Nation writing something like this?

Vote? In an election? The PAD movement resulted in instability? Find a better choice for PM? Better policies? Wait for the next elections?

I am confused... I did not read an article of The Nation that makes sense since years.

Must be something wrong with these guys.

Maybe there has been a "Silent Coup" at the Nation, what next, Faarks Nooz praising Obama Oh My Gaard, That's Assum.

The Nation, contrary to red shirt supporters beliefs, has consistently published a variety of viewpoints from across the political spectrum. Red shirt supporters will continue calling The Nation yellow propaganda trash until it starts trotting out the sort of nonsense they are used to watching on Truth Today. That's not to say The Nation isn't trash. It is. And that's not to say it is completely without a political slant. What paper is?

Rubbish, it's a yellow paper (editorial policy) through and through like the Bangkok Post.A modest amount of homework would have helped prevented you making such an absurd post.Still judging by your recent embarrassing evisceration by Nick Nostitz it's clear that logic, truth and wisdom are not commodities you greatly prize.If I had been so exposed I think I would retire hurt - for a bit anyway.

Well so far you have never retired hurt when you have been embarrassingly exposed as a red apologist.

[OzMick]

Probably not too clever to accuse others of having" thick heads" when your own understanding is so rudimentary and prejudiced.PAD, the yellowshirts, Pitak Siam, Tui's multicoloureds may differ in detail but the driving force is the same and in many cases the same leaders are involved - the objective being to thwart representative democracy when it comes up with a government the feudal,reactionary and military interests are uncomfortable with.The Nation's argument is hardly controversial being that it makes more sense for those that are uncomfortable with the current government to follow the universally accepted remedy of voting another one in when the time is right.The Bangkok municipal election and the recent Democrat victory at Don Muang show the way it should be done.A general election has to be called in a couple of years, and the opposition have their chance.There is a small problem I agree since although some have convinced themselves the PM is a major liability and due for replacement, those not not blinded by partisan politics understand she remains the most popular Prime Minister in living memory - obviously not the most competent (but that's a different argument).

What the usual suspects hate about an article like this is the implicit recognition that the old guard has lost the argument.The Democrats may well win power again (though they will need to ditch Abhisit) but the old order has died a death - and some of the less perceptive defenders of reaction have somehow failed to notice it.

I find it amusing that the only people calling for Abhisit's removal are his opponents. If he was such a liability, would they bother.

OTOH, a PM who has instigated policies causing huge ("only accounting") losses should be above criticism. Well she might be, because there is no way her party can change leadership.

I don't care whether the Democrats replace him or not, except in the sense it would make the Democrats a stronger party and more likely to win a national election.For most middle class well educated people the Democrat Party is a natural home, and I would like to be able to support it.It may surprise some but my natural sympathies reside there.

However if you truly believe there are not powerful interests within the Democrat Party not seriously considering Abhisit's replacement you are profoundly mistaken.There will never be a public debate about it though in the Western sense.

As to the article which has little controversial content - simply that governments should be changed by elections, it's interesting that the fruitier type of reactionary apologist responds by labelling its author a "Thaksin lickspittle".

If the democrats are your"natural home", you appear to regularly carry out unnatural acts.

You are quite happy to discuss the possibility of Abhisit's replacement, however unnecessary that may seem to many. Yet, it seems that you don't wish to comment on the (im)possibility of changing Yingluk as leader of PTP, and how that fits in with democratic principles. Which is, after all, the current topic.

Edited June 19, 2013 by OzMick

[OzMick]

I don't see how you can be so sure.Anecdotally all the evidence points the other way.He seems incapable of winning a national election, so what other routes to power does he have? Now how exactly did he come to power last time round?

How do you judge that he is incapable of winning a national election; because he lost the last where expected supporters were urged to NO vote? Perhaps we allow him another without that scenario, without accusations of being a murderer, and where his opponent is an inarticulate incompetent trying to explain the loss of billions of baht and various other SNAFU.

Edited June 19, 2013 by OzMick

[yoshiwara]

Probably not too clever to accuse others of having" thick heads" when your own understanding is so rudimentary and prejudiced.PAD, the yellowshirts, Pitak Siam, Tui's multicoloureds may differ in detail but the driving force is the same and in many cases the same leaders are involved - the objective being to thwart representative democracy when it comes up with a government the feudal,reactionary and military interests are uncomfortable with.The Nation's argument is hardly controversial being that it makes more sense for those that are uncomfortable with the current government to follow the universally accepted remedy of voting another one in when the time is right.The Bangkok municipal election and the recent Democrat victory at Don Muang show the way it should be done.A general election has to be called in a couple of years, and the opposition have their chance.There is a small problem I agree since although some have convinced themselves the PM is a major liability and due for replacement, those not not blinded by partisan politics understand she remains the most popular Prime Minister in living memory - obviously not the most competent (but that's a different argument).

What the usual suspects hate about an article like this is the implicit recognition that the old guard has lost the argument.The Democrats may well win power again (though they will need to ditch Abhisit) but the old order has died a death - and some of the less perceptive defenders of reaction have somehow failed to notice it.

I find it amusing that the only people calling for Abhisit's removal are his opponents. If he was such a liability, would they bother.

OTOH, a PM who has instigated policies causing huge ("only accounting") losses should be above criticism. Well she might be, because there is no way her party can change leadership.

I don't care whether the Democrats replace him or not, except in the sense it would make the Democrats a stronger party and more likely to win a national election.For most middle class well educated people the Democrat Party is a natural home, and I would like to be able to support it.It may surprise some but my natural sympathies reside there.

However if you truly believe there are not powerful interests within the Democrat Party not seriously considering Abhisit's replacement you are profoundly mistaken.There will never be a public debate about it though in the Western sense.

As to the article which has little controversial content - simply that governments should be changed by elections, it's interesting that the fruitier type of reactionary apologist responds by labelling its author a "Thaksin lickspittle".

If the democrats are your"natural home", you appear to regularly carry out unnatural acts.

You are quite happy to discuss the possibility of Abhisit's replacement, however unnecessary that may seem to many. Yet, it seems that you don't wish to comment on the (im)possibility of changing Yingluk as leader of PTP, and how that fits in with democratic principles. Which is, after all, the current topic.

No One buys his little feints any more.

[jayboy]

I don't see how you can be so sure.Anecdotally all the evidence points the other way.He seems incapable of winning a national election, so what other routes to power does he have? Now how exactly did he come to power last time round?

How do you judge that he is incapable of winning a national election; because he lost the last where expected supporters were urged to NO vote? Perhaps we allow him another without that scenario, without accusations of being a murderer, and where his opponent is an inarticulate incompetent trying to explain the loss of billions of baht and various other SNAFU.

I'm not quite sure what point you are making.If Abhisit is the right man for the job in the view of his party he should lead it at the next general election, and if what you believe is true, he and the Democrats will win.As to Yingluck if what you obviously believe is also believed by the Thai people then she and the PTP will lose.

The real debate in Thai politics is in my view about something rather different - ie whether the less well off mainly rural majority should be able to take the major political role.Hence the various street movements which test the waters from time to time.

[gerry1011]

Rubbish, it's a yellow paper (editorial policy) through and through  like the Bangkok Post.A modest amount of homework would have helped prevented you making such an absurd post.Still judging by your recent embarrassing evisceration by Nick Nostitz it's clear that logic, truth and wisdom are not commodities you greatly prize.If I had been so exposed I think I would retire hurt - for a bit anyway.

1) If the Nation was a yellow paper through and through, what are they doing publishing the above in the OP? And there have been many other articles like this. Indeed they include on their team of contributors, a number of writers with well-known red sympathies. One, whose name escapes me, is based in Singapore and contributes quite regularly. For a media outlet to be of one political colour through and through, i would not expect them to produce anything that was seen to challenge the view of that colour.

2) If you wish to join in a debate that i was having with Nick, why not take your condescending, without any substance remarks to the thread in which that debate was taking place? Slipping your comments in here is trollish because i can not respond to them without taking the thread further off topic. If not trollish, it certainly is cowardly.

There is nothing more yellow than The Nation.

I don't like to read that newspaper since I find it really too much into the anti Thaksin, anti PT and anti red propaganda. It's like they are totally obsessed

No problem with me... and I have no problem with those who love to read it. Up to everyone to decide which truth they want to swallow.

Personally I have indigestion when I try to swallow the yellow propaganda, which The Nation diffuses quite efficiently, while at the same time inserting here and there an article to make us think they are "in the middle" (this does not do the trick with me though).

Still, it is as yellow as it could be... and it suprises me (a lot) that, at least in this particular artlicle, they publish something that follows basic commom sense; wait for the election and vote for someone else if you want to change the PM. Never read anything like that before from The Nation

It would be a dream if finally they understand that their propaganda is not working and go back to just reporting.

But the paper would sell less good maybe

Sent from my GT-I8190 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[overherebc]

I'm confused. What color shirt or mask should I be reaching for after reading this?

Need similar advice. Start new job on Monday and have no idea what colour shirt to wear.

[rixalex]

1.You are right.There are occasional fair minded and non partisan articles but the general editorial policy is clear.

2.Very briefly, you refer to an evisceration not a discussion.I couldn't possibly have joined in to compound your humiliation.And indeed I had to avert my eyes as one does after seeing a car crash.

Why not focus your attention on your own car crashes? Having minutes ago claimed that The Nation was "yellow through and through", and having thrown a number of insults my way for suggesting otherwise, you now, minutes later, concede they are not.

And to repeat, the discussion i had with Nick is as far as i can see, in no way related to this thread. If you have something to say on it, stop hiding behind forum rules, which prevent me from responding without the inevitable moderator intervention and deletion, and go post your thoughts on that thread.

[yoshiwara]

Rubbish, it's a yellow paper (editorial policy) through and through like the Bangkok Post.A modest amount of homework would have helped prevented you making such an absurd post.Still judging by your recent embarrassing evisceration by Nick Nostitz it's clear that logic, truth and wisdom are not commodities you greatly prize.If I had been so exposed I think I would retire hurt - for a bit anyway.

1) If the Nation was a yellow paper through and through, what are they doing publishing the above in the OP? And there have been many other articles like this. Indeed they include on their team of contributors, a number of writers with well-known red sympathies. One, whose name escapes me, is based in Singapore and contributes quite regularly. For a media outlet to be of one political colour through and through, i would not expect them to produce anything that was seen to challenge the view of that colour.

2) If you wish to join in a debate that i was having with Nick, why not take your condescending, without any substance remarks to the thread in which that debate was taking place? Slipping your comments in here is trollish because i can not respond to them without taking the thread further off topic. If not trollish, it certainly is cowardly.

There is nothing more yellow than The Nation.

I don't like to read that newspaper since I find it really too much into the anti Thaksin, anti PT and anti red propaganda. It's like they are totally obsessed

No problem with me... and I have no problem with those who love to read it. Up to everyone to decide which truth they want to swallow.

Personally I have indigestion when I try to swallow the yellow propaganda, which The Nation diffuses quite efficiently, while at the same time inserting here and there an article to make us think they are "in the middle" (this does not do the trick with me though).

Still, it is as yellow as it could be... and it suprises me (a lot) that, at least in this particular artlicle, they publish something that follows basic commom sense; wait for the election and vote for someone else if you want to change the PM. Never read anything like that before from The Nation

It would be a dream if finally they understand that their propaganda is not working and go back to just reporting.

But the paper would sell less good maybe

Sent from my GT-I8190 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

An embarrassing speech on behalf of the Thaksin Cheerleader Club.

[rixalex]

There is nothing more yellow than The Nation.

You obviously have never watched ASTV then.

I don't like to read that newspaper since I find it really too much into the anti Thaksin, anti PT and anti red propaganda.

Makes me laugh when people talk about anti-Thaksin, as if being anti-Thaksin inherently must mean they are in some way unfairly against him. He is a criminal who is on the run. Most law-abiding people would be anti such an individual, with no need to be prejudiced against them.

As for anti red propaganda. Just as ridiculous a comment.

No problem with me... and I have no problem with those who love to read it. Up to everyone to decide which truth they want to swallow.

Who loves to read it? It seems universally to be considered as trash, just that the reasons may differ on why it is trash.

[yoshiwara]

I don't see how you can be so sure.Anecdotally all the evidence points the other way.He seems incapable of winning a national election, so what other routes to power does he have? Now how exactly did he come to power last time round?

How do you judge that he is incapable of winning a national election; because he lost the last where expected supporters were urged to NO vote? Perhaps we allow him another without that scenario, without accusations of being a murderer, and where his opponent is an inarticulate incompetent trying to explain the loss of billions of baht and various other SNAFU.

I'm not quite sure what point you are making.If Abhisit is the right man for the job in the view of his party he should lead it at the next general election, and if what you believe is true, he and the Democrats will win.As to Yingluck if what you obviously believe is also believed by the Thai people then she and the PTP will lose.

The real debate in Thai politics is in my view about something rather different - ie whether the less well off mainly rural majority should be able to take the major political role.Hence the various street movements which test the waters from time to time.

What codswallop from our friend the new 'Natural Democrat'. You should ask the agricultural workers if Thaksin has dropped his alliance with the rural North-Eastern landowners and is now advocating land reform. A rather poor attempt to re-introduce for the umpteenth time a disguised class politics. Not that you support any aspect of organised working class politics or will ever do so.

[rixalex]

Still, it is as yellow as it could be... and it suprises me (a lot) that, at least in this particular artlicle, they publish something that follows basic commom sense; wait for the election and vote for someone else if you want to change the PM. Never read anything like that before from The Nation

wait for the election and vote for someone else if you want to change the PM

Yep, good advice. Shame you weren't around with those words of wisdom when the reds were trashing Bangkok.

[OzMick]

I don't see how you can be so sure.Anecdotally all the evidence points the other way.He seems incapable of winning a national election, so what other routes to power does he have? Now how exactly did he come to power last time round?

How do you judge that he is incapable of winning a national election; because he lost the last where expected supporters were urged to NO vote? Perhaps we allow him another without that scenario, without accusations of being a murderer, and where his opponent is an inarticulate incompetent trying to explain the loss of billions of baht and various other SNAFU.

I'm not quite sure what point you are making.If Abhisit is the right man for the job in the view of his party he should lead it at the next general election, and if what you believe is true, he and the Democrats will win.As to Yingluck if what you obviously believe is also believed by the Thai people then she and the PTP will lose.

The real debate in Thai politics is in my view about something rather different - ie whether the less well off mainly rural majority should be able to take the major political role.Hence the various street movements which test the waters from time to time.

The real debate in your opinion is NOT the topic. The topic is replacing Yingluk - and you are yet to comment on the authoritarian/dictatorial structure of PTP which makes that impossible without a general election.

[waza]

Good point, a change of leadership should be through democratic means not military might. The rule of law should prevail.

[rijb]

I'm confused. What color shirt or mask should I be reaching for after reading this?

Need similar advice. Start new job on Monday and have no idea what colour shirt to wear.

Shirts are out. Masks are in.

[nicknostitz]

There is nothing more yellow than The Nation.

I don't like to read that newspaper since I find it really too much into the anti Thaksin, anti PT and anti red propaganda. It's like they are totally obsessed

No problem with me... and I have no problem with those who love to read it. Up to everyone to decide which truth they want to swallow.

Personally I have indigestion when I try to swallow the yellow propaganda, which The Nation diffuses quite efficiently, while at the same time inserting here and there an article to make us think they are "in the middle" (this does not do the trick with me though).

Still, it is as yellow as it could be... and it suprises me (a lot) that, at least in this particular artlicle, they publish something that follows basic commom sense; wait for the election and vote for someone else if you want to change the PM. Never read anything like that before from The Nation

It would be a dream if finally they understand that their propaganda is not working and go back to just reporting.

But the paper would sell less good maybe

Sent from my GT-I8190 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Just a brief correction.

While it is true that the Nation is overwhelmingly "yellow", there are a minority of reporters who are not, such as this writer, or Pravit. They are in conflict with most of their editors, and try to balance with their articles the slant presented by people such as Thanong, Tulsathip, etc.

Pravit, for example, joined the Nation because of the Nation's stand against the military in 1992. But in 2006 things have changed in that paper.

You have a similar situation in many newspapers here. Some are more strongly yellow (such as Naeow Na, Daily News, Bangkok Post), others are slightly more yellow, and at times shifting (such as Thai Rath), and again others are a bit more red (such as Khao Sod, who especially after Rajaprasong made an editorial decision not to let government pressure dictate their editorial policy, especially when it came to reporting on dead and injured Red Shirts). Matichon, Thailand's most respected newspaper (which also owns Khao Sod) is mostly seen as having a middle ground in which both sides are presented in an equal measure.

Journalism in Thailand is a reflection of Thai society, in many ways, where in editorial offices the same conflicts are played out as in general Thai society.

[rubl]

"On Monday, the Thai Patriotic Front lodged a petition with the Bureau of the Royal Household to replace the current (real) PM"

Some never learn. Rather than involve the Royal Household in this the group should move their petition to a court. Mind you I doubt there will be a court willing to accept their petition. On the other hand the article doesn't seem to say what reasons the group gave for their petition and what proof to found their reasoning.

PS I'm truly amazed to see written down in the replies that disembowelment is practised by some members. Surely that's not only against forum rules, but 'hanged, drawn and-quartered' went out of fashion a long time ago, even amongst Amart.

[gerry1011]

Rubbish, it's a yellow paper (editorial policy) through and through  like the Bangkok Post.A modest amount of homework would have helped prevented you making such an absurd post.Still judging by your recent embarrassing evisceration by Nick Nostitz it's clear that logic, truth and wisdom are not commodities you greatly prize.If I had been so exposed I think I would retire hurt - for a bit anyway.

1) If the Nation was a yellow paper through and through, what are they doing publishing the above in the OP? And there have been many other articles like this. Indeed they include on their team of contributors, a number of writers with well-known red sympathies. One, whose name escapes me, is based in Singapore and contributes quite regularly. For a media outlet to be of one political colour through and through, i would not expect them to produce anything that was seen to challenge the view of that colour.

2) If you wish to join in a debate that i was having with Nick, why not take your condescending, without any substance remarks to the thread in which that debate was taking place? Slipping your comments in here is trollish because i can not respond to them without taking the thread further off topic. If not trollish, it certainly is cowardly.

There is nothing more yellow than The Nation.

I don't like to read that newspaper since I find it really too much into the anti Thaksin, anti PT and anti red propaganda. It's like they are totally obsessed

No problem with me... and I have no problem with those who love to read it. Up to everyone to decide which truth they want to swallow.

Personally I have indigestion when I try to swallow the yellow propaganda, which The Nation diffuses quite efficiently, while at the same time inserting here and there an article to make us think they are "in the middle" (this does not do the trick with me though).

Still, it is as yellow as it could be... and it suprises me (a lot) that, at least in this particular artlicle, they publish something that follows basic commom sense; wait for the election and vote for someone else if you want to change the PM. Never read anything like that before from The Nation

It would be a dream if finally they understand that their propaganda is not working and go back to just reporting.

But the paper would sell less good maybe

Sent from my GT-I8190 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

An embarrassing speech on behalf of the Thaksin Cheerleader Club.

Not sure I understand what you try to say

Sent from my GT-I8190 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[rubl]

From Thailand Live Wednesday 19 June #2:

Chaiwat denies demand for new PM
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Anti-government leaders yesterday denied reports that they filed a petition signed by 8 million supporters asking for a new royally endorsed PM.
Chaiwat Sinsuwong and Thongdee Namsaengkot said their group had taken recourse in Article 3 of the Constitution to seek help from His Majesty as they did not see any progress after filing the petition with the Supreme Court and military last Wednesday. Chaiwat refuted criticism that the petition might upset His Majesty, because he said under Article 3 the King is responsible for the country.
The group decided to stage a sit-in at Sanam Luang for as long as problems related to charter amendment are not resolved.
The petition cites problems stemming from the government's parliamentary dictatorship, harassing state officials, allowing large-scale graft, kow-towing to leaders of foreign countries, putting the country's sovereignty at risk by negotiating with separatists and failing to take action against those who debase the royal institution.
-- The Nation 2013-06-19

[jcb2001]

I am no supporter of this government and there ruinous policies, and they should be replaced at the next election, unless some of the smelly stuff flying around sticks and calls for an earlier ouster. Unfortunately the PM not showing up at parliament, not giving interviews, not chairing the rice committee when in meeting are not impeachable offenses.

Well, would you at least agree she is the worst PM Thailand has ever had?

[jcb2001]

I find it amusing that the only people calling for Abhisit's removal are his opponents. If he was such a liability, would they bother.

I think Abhisit is smart and articulate. I think that if he were a more skilled leader and had the power to implement his policies Thailand would be better for it. But I also think he is a liability for the Democrats now. Fair or not, he gets so much crap thrown at him that some of it has to stick, at least in the minds of many Thais who don't exactly have access to a free, thorough, impartial media environment. I believe that the Democrats would be much more able to control the debate, and would do better at the ballot box, if they had a new leadership team in place.

The Thaksin team are obsessed with Abhisit. Does Abhisit support the removal of Yingluck outside the parliamentary system? No. But if they can tar him with that brush they will do so.

I don't see how you can be so sure.Anecdotally all the evidence points the other way.He seems incapable of winning a national election, so what other routes to power does he have? Now how exactly did he come to power last time round?

It would be difficult for any party to win an election when corrupt politicians, with the most money given out at the polls, will get the most votes for cash.

Edited June 19, 2013 by jcb2001

[yoshiwara]

There is nothing more yellow than The Nation.

I don't like to read that newspaper since I find it really too much into the anti Thaksin, anti PT and anti red propaganda. It's like they are totally obsessed

No problem with me... and I have no problem with those who love to read it. Up to everyone to decide which truth they want to swallow.

Personally I have indigestion when I try to swallow the yellow propaganda, which The Nation diffuses quite efficiently, while at the same time inserting here and there an article to make us think they are "in the middle" (this does not do the trick with me though).

Still, it is as yellow as it could be... and it suprises me (a lot) that, at least in this particular artlicle, they publish something that follows basic commom sense; wait for the election and vote for someone else if you want to change the PM. Never read anything like that before from The Nation

It would be a dream if finally they understand that their propaganda is not working and go back to just reporting.

But the paper would sell less good maybe

Sent from my GT-I8190 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Just a brief correction.

While it is true that the Nation is overwhelmingly "yellow", there are a minority of reporters who are not, such as this writer, or Pravit. They are in conflict with most of their editors, and try to balance with their articles the slant presented by people such as Thanong, Tulsathip, etc.

Pravit, for example, joined the Nation because of the Nation's stand against the military in 1992. But in 2006 things have changed in that paper.

You have a similar situation in many newspapers here. Some are more strongly yellow (such as Naeow Na, Daily News, Bangkok Post), others are slightly more yellow, and at times shifting (such as Thai Rath), and again others are a bit more red (such as Khao Sod, who especially after Rajaprasong made an editorial decision not to let government pressure dictate their editorial policy, especially when it came to reporting on dead and injured Red Shirts). Matichon, Thailand's most respected newspaper (which also owns Khao Sod) is mostly seen as having a middle ground in which both sides are presented in an equal measure.

Journalism in Thailand is a reflection of Thai society, in many ways, where in editorial offices the same conflicts are played out as in general Thai society.

A thoroughly shallow commentary. One wonders where he spends his all his time. Marinating in self-observed subjectivism mostly it appears. Another one who wants to ignore the fact that the so-called yellow shirts called for a boycott of the DP at the last election. Keep peddling the old line lads and maybe one day someone will forget to point it out. Not that that will stop you.

[rose496900]

I want Aphisit back. This day, there is no one is better than him.

[yoshiwara]

I am no supporter of this government and there ruinous policies, and they should be replaced at the next election, unless some of the smelly stuff flying around sticks and calls for an earlier ouster. Unfortunately the PM not showing up at parliament, not giving interviews, not chairing the rice committee when in meeting are not impeachable offenses.

Well, would you at least agree she is the worst PM Thailand has ever had?

Actually I doubt it and anyway she is still preferable to having Thaksin back in Thailand and for that I am grateful (so far). Unless she completely screws up and forces through constitutional changes on behalf of Thaksin then Yingluck will represent in practice reconciliation between the establishment and Thaksin. The trouble sits with Thaksin who wants more. Actually he wants everything and the red incidents are signals of Thaksin champing at the bit. He has past form of making a mess of things. Edited June 19, 2013 by yoshiwara

[ramrod711]

Rather than sitting still in protest at Sanam Luang and waiting for special powers to grant the new prime minister, Chaiwat, the group and whoever disagrees or is disappointed with Yingluck and the Shinawatra clan, should campaign around the country for a good candidate and good policies for a premier to replace the PM.

They have tried that, it led to them being pelted with nuts, bolts, glass, stones and bits of metal. Red shirt minions of Thaksin

assault and threaten anyone (including judges) who oppose the government. Having said that, i still believe the best way to get rid of this government is to let them go on ruling. Abhisit has already said that he won't be part of any government that doesn't win an election, what else can he say?

[nicknostitz]

Just a brief correction.

While it is true that the Nation is overwhelmingly "yellow", there are a minority of reporters who are not, such as this writer, or Pravit. They are in conflict with most of their editors, and try to balance with their articles the slant presented by people such as Thanong, Tulsathip, etc.

Pravit, for example, joined the Nation because of the Nation's stand against the military in 1992. But in 2006 things have changed in that paper.

You have a similar situation in many newspapers here. Some are more strongly yellow (such as Naeow Na, Daily News, Bangkok Post), others are slightly more yellow, and at times shifting (such as Thai Rath), and again others are a bit more red (such as Khao Sod, who especially after Rajaprasong made an editorial decision not to let government pressure dictate their editorial policy, especially when it came to reporting on dead and injured Red Shirts). Matichon, Thailand's most respected newspaper (which also owns Khao Sod) is mostly seen as having a middle ground in which both sides are presented in an equal measure.

Journalism in Thailand is a reflection of Thai society, in many ways, where in editorial offices the same conflicts are played out as in general Thai society.

A thoroughly shallow commentary. One wonders where he spends his all his time. Marinating in self-observed subjectivism mostly it appears. Another one who wants to ignore the fact that the so-called yellow shirts called for a boycott of the DP at the last election. Keep peddling the old line lads and maybe one day someone will forget to point it out. Not that that will stop you.

It will hardly stop me when faced with such an uninformed (and ill-mannered) reply.

Another correction: before the 2011 elections the PAD itself was massively split between the "No-Vote" camp, and the ones that supported the PAD's own New Politics Party, which then led to Somsak Kosaisuk having left the PAD (and having been verbally attacked on the PAD's stage at Makkhawan).

But if you may have observed the PAD of 2006 and 2008, you might have noticed that on many levels the yellow shirts of the PAD and the DP party have closely collaborated, and i am not just talking about Kasit on the stage, but of entire local PAD chapters that were led by DP vote canvassers, and guard units that were sent in by local DP MP's.

Therefore, when people speak about "Yellow" in the context of this conflict, people do not just narrow it down to the PAD itself, but to all groups that have been in close alliance in 2006 and 2008 in their protest against Thaksin. While they may have severe conflicts over almost anything that does not concern Thaksin, their strong dislike of Thaksin does bring them together again. We have seen, for example, in late May/early June 2012, where the PAD and the Democrat Party led protest groups have *together* blockaded the parliament, and key DP politicians have even visited not just their own protesters, but also the PAD's area in front of parliament, such as Suthep, etc.

So, you, see, even though the PAD boycotted the DP (and on stage badly insulted their leading politicians), they still work together when they need to. Even though they may not wear yellow shirts anymore, we can still paraphrase their general philosophy (anti-Thaksin, ultra-royalist, ultra-nationalist) as "Yellow".

In Thai society itself when Thais talk about their own political views (or their neighbor's views) they call themselves either "daeng" or "lueang", and after go then into the different sub-categories ("daeng nor por chor", or "daeng issara", etc, and on the other side "lueang panthamit", or "lueang pak patchathipat").

And back to my original point - yes, in this context different Thai newspapers have differing tendencies along the color divide, but also individual journalists have that as well, but also reflecting the different sub-trends within each different color code.

[winstonc]

Rubbish, it's a yellow paper (editorial policy) through and through like the Bangkok Post.A modest amount of homework would have helped prevented you making such an absurd post.Still judging by your recent embarrassing evisceration by Nick Nostitz it's clear that logic, truth and wisdom are not commodities you greatly prize.If I had been so exposed I think I would retire hurt - for a bit anyway.

1) If the Nation was a yellow paper through and through, what are they doing publishing the above in the OP? And there have been many other articles like this. Indeed they include on their team of contributors, a number of writers with well-known red sympathies. One, whose name escapes me, is based in Singapore and contributes quite regularly. For a media outlet to be of one political colour through and through, i would not expect them to produce anything that was seen to challenge the view of that colour.

2) If you wish to join in a debate that i was having with Nick, why not take your condescending, without any substance remarks to the thread in which that debate was taking place? Slipping your comments in here is trollish because i can not respond to them without taking the thread further off topic. If not trollish, it certainly is cowardly.

There is nothing more yellow than The Nation.

I don't like to read that newspaper since I find it really too much into the anti Thaksin, anti PT and anti red propaganda. It's like they are totally obsessed

No problem with me... and I have no problem with those who love to read it. Up to everyone to decide which truth they want to swallow.

Personally I have indigestion when I try to swallow the yellow propaganda, which The Nation diffuses quite efficiently, while at the same time inserting here and there an article to make us think they are "in the middle" (this does not do the trick with me though).

Still, it is as yellow as it could be... and it suprises me (a lot) that, at least in this particular artlicle, they publish something that follows basic commom sense; wait for the election and vote for someone else if you want to change the PM. Never read anything like that before from The Nation

It would be a dream if finally they understand that their propaganda is not working and go back to just reporting.

But the paper would sell less good maybe

Sent from my GT-I8190 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

anyone with 2 braincells would be anti thaksin,i take it you agree with stealing the nations wealth,and jobs for the boys/girls,,have you got a bentley shirlock,,,,,

[Pi Sek]

Just a brief correction.

While it is true that the Nation is overwhelmingly "yellow", there are a minority of reporters who are not, such as this writer, or Pravit. They are in conflict with most of their editors, and try to balance with their articles the slant presented by people such as Thanong, Tulsathip, etc.

Pravit, for example, joined the Nation because of the Nation's stand against the military in 1992. But in 2006 things have changed in that paper.

You have a similar situation in many newspapers here. Some are more strongly yellow (such as Naeow Na, Daily News, Bangkok Post), others are slightly more yellow, and at times shifting (such as Thai Rath), and again others are a bit more red (such as Khao Sod, who especially after Rajaprasong made an editorial decision not to let government pressure dictate their editorial policy, especially when it came to reporting on dead and injured Red Shirts). Matichon, Thailand's most respected newspaper (which also owns Khao Sod) is mostly seen as having a middle ground in which both sides are presented in an equal measure.

Journalism in Thailand is a reflection of Thai society, in many ways, where in editorial offices the same conflicts are played out as in general Thai society.

A thoroughly shallow commentary. One wonders where he spends his all his time. Marinating in self-observed subjectivism mostly it appears. Another one who wants to ignore the fact that the so-called yellow shirts called for a boycott of the DP at the last election. Keep peddling the old line lads and maybe one day someone will forget to point it out. Not that that will stop you.

It will hardly stop me when faced with such an uninformed (and ill-mannered) reply.

Another correction: before the 2011 elections the PAD itself was massively split between the "No-Vote" camp, and the ones that supported the PAD's own New Politics Party, which then led to Somsak Kosaisuk having left the PAD (and having been verbally attacked on the PAD's stage at Makkhawan).

But if you may have observed the PAD of 2006 and 2008, you might have noticed that on many levels the yellow shirts of the PAD and the DP party have closely collaborated, and i am not just talking about Kasit on the stage, but of entire local PAD chapters that were led by DP vote canvassers, and guard units that were sent in by local DP MP's.

Therefore, when people speak about "Yellow" in the context of this conflict, people do not just narrow it down to the PAD itself, but to all groups that have been in close alliance in 2006 and 2008 in their protest against Thaksin. While they may have severe conflicts over almost anything that does not concern Thaksin, their strong dislike of Thaksin does bring them together again. We have seen, for example, in late May/early June 2012, where the PAD and the Democrat Party led protest groups have *together* blockaded the parliament, and key DP politicians have even visited not just their own protesters, but also the PAD's area in front of parliament, such as Suthep, etc.

So, you, see, even though the PAD boycotted the DP (and on stage badly insulted their leading politicians), they still work together when they need to. Even though they may not wear yellow shirts anymore, we can still paraphrase their general philosophy (anti-Thaksin, ultra-royalist, ultra-nationalist) as "Yellow".

In Thai society itself when Thais talk about their own political views (or their neighbor's views) they call themselves either "daeng" or "lueang", and after go then into the different sub-categories ("daeng nor por chor", or "daeng issara", etc, and on the other side "lueang panthamit", or "lueang pak patchathipat").

And back to my original point - yes, in this context different Thai newspapers have differing tendencies along the color divide, but also individual journalists have that as well, but also reflecting the different sub-trends within each different color code.

The Nation, I expect, is fully aware that they are chastised in some quarters for their bias (and there is a bias - the majority of articles in The Nation are not supportive of Peua Thai, they go further to highlight PTP irregularities than they do with Democrat irregularities). Any media wishing to be part of the mainstream would be foolish not to have some "dissenting" voices.

As I've said before many times, I strongly disagree with Nick on some aspects - most of it because, much as he may deny it, he is "Red" in that he is anti-coup, and I am a "Yellow" as I was pro-coup in 2006 (I thought having an undemocratic military dictatorship was better than an undemocratic privately-owned dicatatorship). I do acknowledge he holds some knowledge outside the sphere of some of ours, due to the circles in which he spends most of his time; but, as I've said before, I don't think his knowledge is all-encompassing in the political sphere because my experiences with the Yellow Shirt crowd since 2006 have shown much more variety of opinion than that which I've seen attributed by Nick to the PAD/Yellow/MC-shirt/Pitak Siam/etc umbrella.

"In Thai society itself when Thais talk about their own political views (or their neighbor's views) they call themselves either "daeng" or "lueang", and after go then into the different sub-categories ("daeng nor por chor", or "daeng issara", etc, and on the other side "lueang panthamit", or "lueang pak patchathipat")."

That is a rather simplistic synopsis, but it's quite close to the mark... and this "need to identify" would add to why the political divide here is so polarised, much like loyalty towards a particular football team (you don't start supporting Chonburi if your local Buriram side that you have been following all your life start diving or playing boring football or something), and also why so many Reds believe that that, if you're not Red, then you must be Yellow.

The different sub-categories, though, I don't agree with. I often get asked about my political affiliations... because of my Thai language and my right to vote here, they're keen to know what a "white guy" thinks. The first question - daeng or leuang. The second question: "you don't like Thaksin, luh?". My answer is always a little dismissive of chaps like Suthep, but I go on to say that the Democrat Party is pretty-much the only option on the table that will run the country like a country and I usually go on to highlight the blatant faults within PTP governance. I suppose that makes me a "lueang pak patchathipat" in Nick's book, but I've never heard that expression before. I have heard "Daeng Nor Por Chor" (UDD Red Shirt), but never "Daeng Issara" (free Red Shirt). Admittedly I don't have the political contacts that Nick has, but I do chat politics on occasion with 3 current Democrat MPs, one high profile leader within the "Yellow" camp (even though they don't wear yellow shirts any more and don't agree with NPP) and one of the Red Shirt faction leaders (I might well ask him about it), not to mention a LOT of the general public. Anyway, my point is that, in several hundred not-too-short conversations about Thai politics with Thais, I've not heard a divide any further than "daeng" or "leuang", on either side. Perhaps you get that because your a member of the press? At times people talk because they feel the need to sound intelligent.