WHY PLAYERS REFUSE PUTTING LESSONS

[FDog]

The closer I get to the hole the worse I get. I play off 2. Hit most fairways/greens.

But if I miss a green I'm basically just trying to get the ball onto the green, not near the hole, I'm useless. Then as for the putting, well....I have a better chance of holing or 2 putting from 40 ft than I do from 4ft.

I can read greens, no problem, but can't get the ball on the line on close putts. Honestly, the first few holes and the last few holes are a nightmare. The holes in between are just bad.

Tried crosshanded with little improvement. Then pencil grip for the shorter putts with again, little improvement but still bad bad bad. Can't remember the last time I had 30 putts or better in a round. Usually around 33 to 35 per round.

I work at a golf course so spend about 2 hours a day on the putting green, all to no avail.

Think I will just line up and close my eyes to feel the putter head next time on the course. Can't be worse than it is already.

Playing off 2 and averaging 34 putts a round means that your average GIR per round is 14/18 = 79%

Currently the PGA tour GIR stats leader is 72%

Your tee to green is fantastic, lock in those lessons because if you get that sorted with your Tee to Green it would be a licence to print cash!

I have played in a few events not in the US, and I can assure you that playing off 2 at a course you play at every week is a lot easier than playing at a course made difficult for tournament conditions and a course you are not familiar with is quite difficult. My lowest handicap was +1 but I did have a short game back then.

2 weeks ago I hit 17 greens in reg and had 1 over. Sometimes drives me crazy but pretty much just live with it now. I play more just for social golf, get out with friends and have a few beers. More enjoyable when you don't stress about it.

[MrRealDeal]

Mostly because they also refuse to play a game where it's required to actually go in the hole anyhow.

[potters]

The closer I get to the hole the worse I get. I play off 2. Hit most fairways/greens.

But if I miss a green I'm basically just trying to get the ball onto the green, not near the hole, I'm useless. Then as for the putting, well....I have a better chance of holing or 2 putting from 40 ft than I do from 4ft.

I can read greens, no problem, but can't get the ball on the line on close putts. Honestly, the first few holes and the last few holes are a nightmare. The holes in between are just bad.

Tried crosshanded with little improvement. Then pencil grip for the shorter putts with again, little improvement but still bad bad bad. Can't remember the last time I had 30 putts or better in a round. Usually around 33 to 35 per round.

I work at a golf course so spend about 2 hours a day on the putting green, all to no avail.

Think I will just line up and close my eyes to feel the putter head next time on the course. Can't be worse than it is already.

Playing off 2 and averaging 34 putts a round means that your average GIR per round is 14/18 = 79%

Currently the PGA tour GIR stats leader is 72%

Your tee to green is fantastic, lock in those lessons because if you get that sorted with your Tee to Green it would be a licence to print cash!

I have played in a few events not in the US, and I can assure you that playing off 2 at a course you play at every week is a lot easier than playing at a course made difficult for tournament conditions and a course you are not familiar with is quite difficult. My lowest handicap was +1 but I did have a short game back then.

2 weeks ago I hit 17 greens in reg and had 1 over. Sometimes drives me crazy but pretty much just live with it now. I play more just for social golf, get out with friends and have a few beers. More enjoyable when you don't stress about it.

Good to see you are enjoying your golf maybe just close your eyes and hit it.

Where are you by the way?

Potters

[Forethat]

Putting is one of the most complicated simple things.

I guess however that most experienced players know how to put correctly - they simply don't get around to apply what they know.

Also, the putting gesture reflects the general swing. Someone that putts square is likely to swing square as well and the opposite is also true.

That's why I think improvement in putting depends on the player's discipline more than on taking lessons.

But putting being 50% of the strokes, any serious player should invest time in training putting. First step is to check the lines / swing plane. If not square, the first thing to do is to go back to the driving range and get that swing back in order and the divots straight.

I've been looking at this post for a couple of days now, and I have to admit I dont really understand what you mean by "Someone that putts square is likely to swing square as well and the opposite is also true."

Can you elaborate, please?

[manarak]

Putting is one of the most complicated simple things.

I guess however that most experienced players know how to put correctly - they simply don't get around to apply what they know.

Also, the putting gesture reflects the general swing. Someone that putts square is likely to swing square as well and the opposite is also true.

That's why I think improvement in putting depends on the player's discipline more than on taking lessons.

But putting being 50% of the strokes, any serious player should invest time in training putting. First step is to check the lines / swing plane. If not square, the first thing to do is to go back to the driving range and get that swing back in order and the divots straight.

I've been looking at this post for a couple of days now, and I have to admit I dont really understand what you mean by "Someone that putts square is likely to swing square as well and the opposite is also true."

Can you elaborate, please?

I mean a slicer is likely to also have a similar flaw in his putting.

Before looking for "tricks" to put better, it is more useful to check if the whole swing is properly aligned or not.

Maybe this might be a starting point:

http://blog.golfhelptips.com/golf-swing-instruction-and-tips-for-beginners/

[Forethat]

Putting is one of the most complicated simple things.

I guess however that most experienced players know how to put correctly - they simply don't get around to apply what they know.

Also, the putting gesture reflects the general swing. Someone that putts square is likely to swing square as well and the opposite is also true.

That's why I think improvement in putting depends on the player's discipline more than on taking lessons.

But putting being 50% of the strokes, any serious player should invest time in training putting. First step is to check the lines / swing plane. If not square, the first thing to do is to go back to the driving range and get that swing back in order and the divots straight.

I've been looking at this post for a couple of days now, and I have to admit I dont really understand what you mean by "Someone that putts square is likely to swing square as well and the opposite is also true."

Can you elaborate, please?

I mean a slicer is likely to also have a similar flaw in his putting.

What makes you think so?

[manarak]

Putting is one of the most complicated simple things.

I guess however that most experienced players know how to put correctly - they simply don't get around to apply what they know.

Also, the putting gesture reflects the general swing. Someone that putts square is likely to swing square as well and the opposite is also true.

That's why I think improvement in putting depends on the player's discipline more than on taking lessons.

But putting being 50% of the strokes, any serious player should invest time in training putting. First step is to check the lines / swing plane. If not square, the first thing to do is to go back to the driving range and get that swing back in order and the divots straight.

I've been looking at this post for a couple of days now, and I have to admit I dont really understand what you mean by "Someone that putts square is likely to swing square as well and the opposite is also true."

Can you elaborate, please?

I mean a slicer is likely to also have a similar flaw in his putting.

What makes you think so?

it's my experience - when putting the slicer will also tend to hit the ball using and outside-inside swing plane. it's just a tendance - individual cases may differ.

[Rsquared]

Ok.....here's one for you experts. I hope you can help me.

I have always been a "wristy" putter and was very consistent.

About 10 years ago I went to a one day clinic and when we got to the putting section....I was told to "lock" my wrists and swing from the shoulders.

I tried that for a few years but got worse and my confidence just left me. I tried to go back to my "wristy" stroke as to me I had more "feel", but alas my putting has not improved.

Now I find myself in no mans land....I still prefer my wristy action, yet have lost the confidence because that little voice in my head is telling me I should be locking my wrists.

I have tried different putters, I've practiced......maybe it's just an age thing and I have to accept it?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers.

[Forethat]

Ok.....here's one for you experts. I hope you can help me.

I have always been a "wristy" putter and was very consistent.

About 10 years ago I went to a one day clinic and when we got to the putting section....I was told to "lock" my wrists and swing from the shoulders.

I tried that for a few years but got worse and my confidence just left me. I tried to go back to my "wristy" stroke as to me I had more "feel", but alas my putting has not improved.

Now I find myself in no mans land....I still prefer my wristy action, yet have lost the confidence because that little voice in my head is telling me I should be locking my wrists.

I have tried different putters, I've practiced......maybe it's just an age thing and I have to accept it?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers.

What is it about your putting that goes wrong? Is it only direction/alignment or is it mishits and/or speed?

[manarak]

Ok.....here's one for you experts. I hope you can help me.

I have always been a "wristy" putter and was very consistent.

About 10 years ago I went to a one day clinic and when we got to the putting section....I was told to "lock" my wrists and swing from the shoulders.

I tried that for a few years but got worse and my confidence just left me. I tried to go back to my "wristy" stroke as to me I had more "feel", but alas my putting has not improved.

Now I find myself in no mans land....I still prefer my wristy action, yet have lost the confidence because that little voice in my head is telling me I should be locking my wrists.

I have tried different putters, I've practiced......maybe it's just an age thing and I have to accept it?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers.

how is the chipping from 2-3 meters outside the green?

[Rsquared]

@ Forethat.....not having that "feel" and confidence I used to have. At times I have commented to myself that I feel like I'm putting with a lump of 4 be 2.

I have also suffered the "yips" and that is no fun at all. I used to be able to nail 10 footers with confidence.....now it's hit and hope.

@ Manarak....chipping 2-3 metres off the green not too bad...but when I end up in that awkward 4-6 foot range, where you know you should sink it, doubt creeps into my psych.

As I keep repeating I think it is a confidence thing....not sure.

Cheers.

[manarak]

@ Forethat.....not having that "feel" and confidence I used to have. At times I have commented to myself that I feel like I'm putting with a lump of 4 be 2.

I have also suffered the "yips" and that is no fun at all. I used to be able to nail 10 footers with confidence.....now it's hit and hope.

@ Manarak....chipping 2-3 metres off the green not too bad...but when I end up in that awkward 4-6 foot range, where you know you should sink it, doubt creeps into my psych.

As I keep repeating I think it is a confidence thing....not sure.

Cheers.

always difficult to say on a forum!

hmm... did you already play under the influence of valium or similar medication?

did you putt better?

then check that you putt the ball when the putter is flat to the ground or slightly going upwards, because the ball tends to behave erratically when hit when the putter is on the downswing.

[Forethat]

I have always believed that a comfortable stance and posture is key to consistent putting. Obviously, what constitutes a comfortable stance varies between individuals. In my opinion, inconsistent stroke and "yips" is caused by tensed muscles. Inconsistent ball striking consistently puts the ball on the wrong line at an inconsistent pace. In addition, with all these inconsistencies it's impossible to learn anything from your putts. Add to this the difficulties of reading a putt and actually line up and aim correctly and we begin to understand that putting is a serious lottery.

Any hacker who is looking to improve putting must start from ground up; stance, grip and alignment, but there's no point trying to improve these parameters if you're uncomfortable, because this will generate tension.

One thing that most hackers must comprehend, is that they often misalign and try to "force" the ball on a line by disturbing the natural swing path according to their alignment. What I mean by this is that if they had executed the putt according to their stance, they would strike the ball cleanly but miss the line completely. The brain can "feel" the initial misalignment and the result is that the hacker tries to "force" the put on the correct line by disturbing the natural swing path of the putter, sometime by flipping the wrists a little bit.

My advice to anyone who's looking to improve putting, is to find a comfortable stance and way of putting that makes you strike the ball purely each time. Practice without aiming towards a cup, use speed as the only feedback, dont worry about aiming. Once you have found your stance and posture, THEN develop the ability to align and aim using that stance and posture. And stop looking at what is considered the "right" way of putting or what it "should" look like. What is natural for YOU is the best starting point.

My $0.02...

[potters]

wE

@ Forethat.....not having that "feel" and confidence I used to have. At times I have commented to myself that I feel like I'm putting with a lump of 4 be 2.

I have also suffered the "yips" and that is no fun at all. I used to be able to nail 10 footers with confidence.....now it's hit and hope.

@ Manarak....chipping 2-3 metres off the green not too bad...but when I end up in that awkward 4-6 foot range, where you know you should sink it, doubt creeps into my psych.

As I keep repeating I think it is a confidence thing....not sure.

Cheers.

LL

@ Forethat.....not having that "feel" and confidence I used to have. At times I have commented to myself that I feel like I'm putting with a lump of 4 be 2.

I have also suffered the "yips" and that is no fun at all. I used to be able to nail 10 footers with confidence.....now it's hit and hope.

@ Manarak....chipping 2-3 metres off the green not too bad...but when I end up in that awkward 4-6 foot range, where you know you should sink it, doubt creeps into my psych.

As I keep repeating I think it is a confidence thing....not sure.

Cheers.

Defo sounds like your confidence is a bit shot.

Start your practice with 3 footers in a clock around the hole.

Slowly work your way out to 6 foot you should start to build

up your confidence quite quickly with this drill.

[potters]

Well going back to an old haunt to practice.

Sanam Ma Namg Luang.

They used to have a really good putting green,

so i hope it is in good nick.

Going to try a new drill with magnets attached to my putter.

Will let you know how i get on with it.

I have seen a lot of talk on here about keeping the putter face square.

This drill quickly gives you feedback if you are doing that.

So providing the weather holds out i will try it out.

Potters

[potters]

Well i visited Sanam Ma Nan Luang at Dusit after 4 years.

Trust me to pick a Sunday when the course is closed.

However the Horse Racing was good fun.

Actually i had the chance to walk the course outside of the racetrack holes 13-18.

It is in reasonable nick and worth playing to say it is so close to the center of Bangkok.

I was more interested in the greens.

They are again playable but slow about 7 on the stimp.

However they are true the putts i made went where they were supposed too.

I used my new tool on my putter,.

Basically i had 2 magnets with a 3 inch screw on the end of each.

I then placed them either side of the ball hence creating the sweet spot.

The idea of this is as follows.

If you are putting and coming from a out to in swing,you will

knock off the right screw and pull the putt.

If the opposite happens and you come from in to out,you will

knock off the left screw and push the putt.

You are after squaring the putt up at impact hitting from the sweetspot on the putter.

The ball will roll so much better once you get used to using this drill.

Cost me about 26 bht to make the tool.

The magnets i got from a 25 bht shop fridge magnets and broke

the plastic to extract the magnet.

2 screws about 1 bht.

I will try and upload a picture when i have time.

By the way the fees for the course above.

Before 5pm 600 bht after 5pm 700 bht (floodlights night golf)

400 bht for the caddy NO tip it says.

Par 62 Tight narrow course water in play on nearly every hole.

You will be hitting over water on at least 9 holes to hit the tiny greens.

If it rains heavily it can get very waterlogged.

Worth a try and cheap night golf is a weird experience.

BTS to Ratchatewi then taxi 50 bht to Sanam Ma Nang Luang Dusit

Regards

Potters

[GregHanrahan]

Hi Potters - hi guys,

PUTTING WOW! Good thread! I was the best in the world, why ,cuz i practiced constantly - no actually i loved it - a game in itself, putting!

FIRST you need confidence so practice correctly. When you go to a pro event you will always see chalk lines on the practice green, usually blue form the mason's tool. I've always had a 2 meter carpet at home with a line on it - listening to whatever at nite and rolling putts - especially one handed. When you can get consistent with six footers with one hand - WOW, CONFIDENCE. You will find that when you miss - something tweaked in your hand - where - what? - then you control that. All putts are straight - that is why putting on a line is super beneficial. Figuring out the break is an art in itself.

When you are on the practice green roll short ones and long ones, long for feel of green speed and distance feel. Forget the 12 footers hole to hole, bullarchy - that is read of the break and no one gets down low on a practice green!

Why do the pros go to look at the hole in Asia with 'Bermuda grasses'? To find the brown side which will be down grain and when the ball slows down the ball will move in that direction. I've seen my ball move uphill at two golf courses - Hua Hin Royal and in Tapei 'Tsam Tsui'. The grain was so strong the ball would actually turn up the slope when it slowed down.

Working artistry on chalk lines most of my life - i was even able to see the line sometimes as a phosphorescent green glow and new i just needed to reach the hole - won a Bavarian Open in a play off like that.

My best 6 footer was to finish second by myself at the 'Singapore Masters', i think 2004. I was the last guy to finish and knew it was worth a lot. Turned out it was about 35,000 USD that i didn't tie for second. Monty shot lights out that day and won. 6 footer downhill and knew the line - only said one thing to myself 'keep your head down' - Simon Dyson taught me that. Turning the head is disastrous.

Check this out - Crazy. The right side of the brain controls the left side of the body - and vice versa. The right side of the brain is the spatial - feeling hemisphere. So i allowed the left hand to have a little more control on long putts where i needed the feel for the distance - no kidding YES!

More later - PUTTING is AWESOME!

[GregHanrahan]

Just a few more words on putting. You gotta love it - it's half your score! I was never a very good ball striker, especially with my dumb arse swing before - i felt down the line was better and swung like a Jim Furyk. When i met him and his wife in Tapei at a Johnnie Walker Event i said to Jim "They say my swing is like yours" and he said "Is that good or bad?" - he won the US Open that year!

I relied on putting, short game and scoring shots 130 -> in. To quote Potters and many others "Drive for show and putt for dough" is too true.

Confidence and reading the line is paramount. There are great caddies in this country than can read the greens very well, but learn the art for yourself. I would test a caddy on Tuesday to see if she could read greens - if no good, another one to test in the pro am on Wednesday. I like a second opinion, especially when they have the experience of the greens at their worksite for many years. In a pro event i would load my pockets with blue notes and dish her out after a birdie putt fell, had loads of psychological aid on my side. It's super kool when the caddy wants you to make it! But don't disregard - your own self confidence from practice.

First of all on long putts stand a little taller - better view for the distance and a wee bit more freedom in your stroke.

Experiment with stance, grip and ball position. I've found that the ball more forward helps in a better roll. David Pelz's 'putting bible' says we must try to go 16 inches past the hole, GOSH and if you don't make it - you know the break back. I joke about 90% of putts short don't o in!

Don't o in! Never mind!,

I would roll balls at balls or at a tee stuck in a green. All tournaments on thurs and fridays the practice green is jammers - so practice without a hole. The smaller you make your target the better and more accurate you become. Even with tee shots! When putting look and aim at something small at the back of the cup - blade of grass or different colour.

So did you know that imagination is awesome. That is how we as humans create. Plus the knowing that we can!

In Korea and Japan there are bells in the bottom of the cups. I would even imagine the sound before i pulled the trigger. Not to see the ball going in before you stroke is dumby land. Before you tee off spend five minutes with 1-2 footers and watch that ball going down!

Enough for now.

greg out.

[dogpoo]

Just a few more words on putting. You gotta love it - it's half your score! I was never a very good ball striker, especially with my dumb arse swing before - i felt down the line was better and swung like a Jim Furyk. When i met him and his wife in Tapei at a Johnnie Walker Event i said to Jim "They say my swing is like yours" and he said "Is that good or bad?" - he won the US Open that year!

I relied on putting, short game and scoring shots 130 -> in. To quote Potters and many others "Drive for show and putt for dough" is too true.

Confidence and reading the line is paramount. There are great caddies in this country than can read the greens very well, but learn the art for yourself. I would test a caddy on Tuesday to see if she could read greens - if no good, another one to test in the pro am on Wednesday. I like a second opinion, especially when they have the experience of the greens at their worksite for many years. In a pro event i would load my pockets with blue notes and dish her out after a birdie putt fell, had loads of psychological aid on my side. It's super kool when the caddy wants you to make it! But don't disregard - your own self confidence from practice.

First of all on long putts stand a little taller - better view for the distance and a wee bit more freedom in your stroke.

Experiment with stance, grip and ball position. I've found that the ball more forward helps in a better roll. David Pelz's 'putting bible' says we must try to go 16 inches past the hole, GOSH and if you don't make it - you know the break back. I joke about 90% of putts short don't o in!

Don't o in! Never mind!,

I would roll balls at balls or at a tee stuck in a green. All tournaments on thurs and fridays the practice green is jammers - so practice without a hole. The smaller you make your target the better and more accurate you become. Even with tee shots! When putting look and aim at something small at the back of the cup - blade of grass or different colour.

So did you know that imagination is awesome. That is how we as humans create. Plus the knowing that we can!

In Korea and Japan there are bells in the bottom of the cups. I would even imagine the sound before i pulled the trigger. Not to see the ball going in before you stroke is dumby land. Before you tee off spend five minutes with 1-2 footers and watch that ball going down!

Enough for now.

greg out.

When I was playing golf the one thing I never practiced was putting, so boring!! In fact I am not a practice person in any sport I have ever played, played all to a good standard though!!

[cobblers]

Well I decided to put my putting to the test & recorded my putting 1 put 2 put 3 puts & there distances & proved what I already knew.

My putting stroke was good but distance control & green reading were poor.

I decided to contact Potters to see if he could help me which he was glad to do.

First of all he observed my putting stroke which was OK & after some questions & more putting we decided to concentrate on green reading & distance control.

Distance control was perhaps the easier due to the fact I had just been estimating how far a putt was (guessing) and by pacing out the distance over a very short time was able to be more accurate.

Then we went over green reading he uses Aim-point as the basis of his green reading which in fact is a very easy system to become competent even without using the aim point charts.

I then went away for a couple of weeks of playing & practicing as the rain allowed, then went & did a top up - reminder of what I was supposed to be doing which I seemed to of remembered most of.

End result : I now putt with confidence that I am on the right line (as best as I can judge) And my distance control is pretty good.

Prior to lessons putting average about 38 puts per round now 34 & has been as low as 32 but the main difference is now from a long put I only have a 1 to 2 foot tap in.

Thanks for your help Potters

Regards

Cobblers

[potters]

Keith,

Your welcome.

It was good working with you,and i was really pleased to see the progress that you made.

Just shaving 2-3 shots a round off you score, can make such a massive difference.

What Keith did was keep track of all his putts during his rounds and then posted them too me.

It then made things easier for me to see where we needed to focus.

Still a lot of guys in denial with regards to their putting.

Greg Hanrahan has posted on here and you should take note of what he says.

One of the best putters when he was on tour.

Potters