Ninja 300 for 2014?

[mania]

The Ninja 300 is now showing at Kawasaki CNX. There is an orange one on display, and it looks really hot !

The picture doesnt do it justice, in person it looks absolutely amazing, its actually a shiny metallic burnt orange color.

I asked the sales girl if it had the slipper clutch, she couldnt answer the question and I didn't want to torture her any longer, but in the end she admitted she wasn't sure.

182500 + 1500 out the door (get insurance somewhere else)

Yeah that orange does not photo well but in reality is a nice copper like color.

Yes it has the slipper clutch

I was also surprised it would slip right into the 250 & may look at that if I keep this one.

[mania]

BTW if you watch the Thai video I posted in post #56 above he talks about the changes.

He mentions the slipper clutch & the fact that the exhaust headers are set wider apart for some reason

I am guessing add torque

The real buzz kill for me on the 300 is two things

The Bore X Stroke & most of all the lack of a non ABS version option

[Gomyway]

Hi mania,

how about your springs, did you already get them installed? And when you did, how about the feeling now?

I'm curious to hear about.

Did you know, that the alternator from the 2008-2012 Ninja is charging 23A and the new 300 Alternator "only" 21A?

One could think it's another tricky configuration to...

Have a nice day all together.

[mania]

Hi mania,

how about your springs, did you already get them installed? And when you did, how about the feeling now?

I'm curious to hear about.

Did you know, that the alternator from the 2008-2012 Ninja is charging 23A and the new 300 Alternator "only" 21A?

One could think it's another tricky configuration to...

Have a nice day all together.

Hi Gomyway

Yes installed today but it was raining like crazy on the way home.

So initial impressions are just based on pumping them with front brake locked.

They are much more firm & solid. Not bouncy soft as before which is just what I want.

They will not dive like they do stock under braking.

That is interesting about the amperage? Wonder why.

You know a recall for 2013 Kawasaki 300's just came today. anything made up until April

may have ABS problems

2013 Kawasaki Ninja 300 Recalled for ABS Problems

Kind of funny the picture in the article has a non abs bike

I stopped in & saw the green & orange copper model this afternoon in CM Kawasaki

Edited July 26, 2013 by mania

[Salapoo]

Hey Mania, just how square is the new engine, closer to the Er-6* or the old N250?

[Gomyway]

Hi mania,

thank you very much for your update.

I think the real felling's what you get when you ride in dry conditions, I wish you to enjoy and have fun.

Also thanks for the info about the ABS, that's interesting.

You know since I"m oldschool in my high age I don't like that new things that nobody really needs and that making everything more complicated.

When in Germany the first cars came up with ABS we had many customers involved in accidents because of ABS - they didn't know how to use it.

You know an old man, a very clever man long ago said, a car needs a steering wheel, four wheels around and most important: AN POWERFUL ENGINE with brakes that could stop it again in a nice body and those kind of cars he built (and EVERYBODY in the world would like to have one like this).

But that's marketing, to create new things to make the people believe, they need those useless c..p.

Take good care.

[mania]

Hey Mania, just how square is the new engine, closer to the Er-6* or the old N250?

well closer to the ER because the ER Bore/Stroke ratio is 1.38

The new 300 is even less at 1.26

Remember Honda 500 is 1.00

The Ninja 250 is a nice 1.50

More like the Honda 600RR which runs 1.57

Of course the king & most F1 like engine is the Panigale at 1.84

Edited July 26, 2013 by mania

[mania]

Hi mania,

thank you very much for your update.

I think the real felling's what you get when you ride in dry conditions, I wish you to enjoy and have fun.

Also thanks for the info about the ABS, that's interesting.

You know since I"m oldschool in my high age I don't like that new things that nobody really needs and that making everything more complicated.

When in Germany the first cars came up with ABS we had many customers involved in accidents because of ABS - they didn't know how to use it.

You know an old man, a very clever man long ago said, a car needs a steering wheel, four wheels around and most important: AN POWERFUL ENGINE with brakes that could stop it again in a nice body and those kind of cars he built (and EVERYBODY in the world would like to have one like this).

But that's marketing, to create new things to make the people believe, they need those useless c..p.

Take good care.

For sure Gomyway & I agree 100%

Aside from complexity I just hate the feel of ABS

Too many lines which is less direct & just feels squishy.

Plus you just cannot gauge your braking as well if you can't feel the reaction.

Also on a bike as light small as this & with its non overly aggressive brakes

having a single front disc etc. It is just extra weight & complexity with the accompanying loss of feel.

I think especially someone learning on smaller bikes that they could do worse than to learn to brake properly.

Even if they need to learn what a locked wheel feels like & how to instinctively release the brake & reapply

progressively. I am sure the regulators who think of these things have a point & that is to allow for emergency slamming on of

brakes in wet conditions etc. But not everyone needs or wants that. It should be optional IMHO

I see technology going in many directions now

Bikes with traction control, ABS, Anti wheelie & more & more

I wonder in the long run what type of riders & ride it will all produce.

[eezergood]

even iam tempted by this ninja i think ill stay with my current line-up. S4R - R6 - DUKE390

HOw is the baby Duke?

Still waiting for it. But all reviews i have been reading are positiv. ATM iam still on a KSR165 in the city.

When is it due to arrive? WOuld be really interested in your reviews & report back. Where are you based?

[Hili]

even iam tempted by this ninja i think ill stay with my current line-up. S4R - R6 - DUKE390

HOw is the baby Duke?

Still waiting for it. But all reviews i have been reading are positiv. ATM iam still on a KSR165 in the city.

When is it due to arrive? WOuld be really interested in your reviews & report back. Where are you based?

They mentioned September.... lets see. For sure i'll share my first impressions in here. Iam in BKK...

[eezergood]

Still waiting for it. But all reviews i have been reading are positiv. ATM iam still on a KSR165 in the city.

When is it due to arrive? WOuld be really interested in your reviews & report back. Where are you based?

They mentioned September.... lets see. For sure i'll share my first impressions in here. Iam in BKK...

Good luck with the delivery man & I look forward to hearing what you say!

[mania]

It has been fun these last couple of days watching the Thai Kawasaki Forums.

When the 300 was announced there were all kinds of emotions.

Some happy, some mad, some sad they had not waited, some confused as they actually still had orders

in for a 250 & do not know what they will get or do because they are not sure they want to pay up price too.

Many talking about the financing & how it is getting into serious money now.

Then today they have calculated something like 2000, Ninja 250 2013's had been sold

Suddenly many are happy again feeling they have new meaning to the special edition sticker

on their bikes. Now they are laughing & posting pics like this one below

I have been having fun watching.

Edited July 26, 2013 by mania

[KRS1]

is it possible that they will be selling both models alongside each other?

[mania]

is it possible that they will be selling both models alongside each other?

I dont know?

I do know when I asked the head at CM Kawasaki when they would deliver the 300's he did

initially say they had to go thru 250 stock. I thought it odd as I never really saw any sitting there. Just maybe

one or two. I was also thinking if someone wanted a good deal that would probably be a good place to ask.

Seeing as how they dropped the z1000 price maybe they would deal on the 250?

Another thing that strikes me as odd is they only recently started selling

the Z250 so thinking that maybe your idea of selling both is possible?

There really is very little difference.

Slipper clutch, top end of course such as rods & pistons,cylinder, & exhaust is about all there is & of course ABS

Another thing that is funny is Thailand is now basically getting the 2014 ninja 300

Last year they could not get a 2013 like everyone else

Kind of strange marketing

Edited July 26, 2013 by mania

[JonnyF]

I agree it's strange marketing and I'm interested how they'll do it. I was really tempted by the new 250 as it looks awesome and I've really enjoyed my older (2008) model. I just couldn't justify the cost of upgrading to another 250 but the 300 with ABS and slipper clutch might just seal the deal as my new city bike.

Another bonus is how easy it would be to create a z300 using z250 parts. That would be a fun and relatively inexpensive project.

I share Mania's concerns about the bore vs. stroke changes as I love revving the nuts off my 250. Unfortunately it seems like Kawi are following Honda this time as opposed to vice versa, which is a shame. But I'll reserve my judgement until I've hired the 300 for a day as all the reviews so far have been positive.

[mania]

I agree it's strange marketing and I'm interested how they'll do it. I was really tempted by the new 250 as it looks awesome and I've really enjoyed my older (2008) model. I just couldn't justify the cost of upgrading to another 250 but the 300 with ABS and slipper clutch might just seal the deal as my new city bike.

Another bonus is how easy it would be to create a z300 using z250 parts. That would be a fun and relatively inexpensive project.

I share Mania's concerns about the bore vs. stroke changes as I love revving the nuts off my 250. Unfortunately it seems like Kawi are following Honda this time as opposed to vice versa, which is a shame. But I'll reserve my judgement until I've hired the 300 for a day as all the reviews so far have been positive.

Yes that is best to try one as all numbers are just that. The way they put the whole package together

may be quite good & probably is judging by the raves it gets in the USA

The did change the BxS numbers quite a bit as they wanted more torque.

Compression ratio is now 10.6:1 compared to the 11.3:1 of the 250 too

The slipper clutch is a big bonus & many are surprised that a ninja 300 would rate such an item that many expensive sport bikes wish for.

I know a lot of 250 folks myself included may try a retro fit of the 300 clutch as it looks like a drop in fit.

[yankee99]

i am surprised that ppeople are comparing these engines at all. This is a inlinei twin with 40% more hp then the 250. I would bet with a few mods this bike would be great fun.

Imho this would be a way better sports bike then the cbr 500

[Salapoo]

Another thing that strikes me as odd is they only recently started selling

the Z250 so thinking that maybe your idea of selling both is possible?

Perhaps they'll just sell the Z250 (making it somewhat unique and S.E.) and N300. Who knows?

(Probably not the sales staff or management)

Edited July 26, 2013 by Salapoo

[cornishcarlos]

even iam tempted by this ninja i think ill stay with my current line-up. S4R - R6 - DUKE390

HOw is the baby Duke?

Still waiting for it. But all reviews i have been reading are positiv. ATM iam still on a KSR165 in the city.

I'm interested to see what price it's going for..

Just read the reviews on it, looks sweet but in U.K selling for 215k baht and cheaper than the Ninja 300 !!

That is obviously not going to happen here but let us know as soon as you find out please ??

[GirlDrinkDrunk]

Hi mania,

how about your springs, did you already get them installed? And when you did, how about the feeling now?

I'm curious to hear about.

Did you know, that the alternator from the 2008-2012 Ninja is charging 23A and the new 300 Alternator "only" 21A?

One could think it's another tricky configuration to...

Have a nice day all together.

Hi Gomyway

Yes installed today but it was raining like crazy on the way home.

So initial impressions are just based on pumping them with front brake locked.

They are much more firm & solid. Not bouncy soft as before which is just what I want.

They will not dive like they do stock under braking.

That is interesting about the amperage? Wonder why.

You know a recall for 2013 Kawasaki 300's just came today. anything made up until April

may have ABS problems

2013 Kawasaki Ninja 300 Recalled for ABS Problems

Kind of funny the picture in the article has a non abs bike

I stopped in & saw the green & orange copper model this afternoon in CM Kawasaki

2013-07-26 14.40.26.jpg 2013-07-26 14.40.13.jpg 2013-07-26 14.39.57.jpg

so much nicer than any of the new cbrs

[Gomyway]

i am surprised that ppeople are comparing these engines at all. This is a inlinei twin with 40% more hp then the 250. I would bet with a few mods this bike would be great fun.

Imho this would be a way better sports bike then the cbr 500

yankee99 where do you get the 40% more hp from?

The crank hp for the 2008-2012 is 33 hp and the 2013 250 is 32 hp with the 300 now has 39 hp.

So the increase from the 2008-2012 to the 300 is 18.2% and from the 2013 250 to the 300 is around 21.9%.

AreaP in USA with their full exhaust system and their fuel tuner is showing up to 46 hp at the crank and Scuderia Platini in Italy with their race 300 is going up to a lil bit over 44 hp while they get more then 45 hp with the 2008-2012 engine in race trim. All the given numbers by me mean crank hp and to understand it better the 250SS for race cost nearly 20,000 euro (app. 800,000 THB).

The difference in the two 250 engines from 2008-2012 and 2013 is that the 2013 is more emission controlled and you know controlling emissions means less hp with the very best example for this take a look at the famous Corvette from 1969/1971 up to the rest and except the very new ones.

[KRS1]

is it possible that they will be selling both models alongside each other?

I dont know?

I do know when I asked the head at CM Kawasaki when they would deliver the 300's he did

initially say they had to go thru 250 stock. I thought it odd as I never really saw any sitting there. Just maybe

one or two. I was also thinking if someone wanted a good deal that would probably be a good place to ask.

Seeing as how they dropped the z1000 price maybe they would deal on the 250?

Another thing that strikes me as odd is they only recently started selling

the Z250 so thinking that maybe your idea of selling both is possible?

There really is very little difference.

Slipper clutch, top end of course such as rods & pistons,cylinder, & exhaust is about all there is & of course ABS

Another thing that is funny is Thailand is now basically getting the 2014 ninja 300

Last year they could not get a 2013 like everyone else

Kind of strange marketing

Could be possible, the price difference between a n250 and the n300 would be about the same between a cbr 150 and cbr 250.

I know a couple of guys that are getting a secondhand cbr 150 because they cant afford to pay the extra 15k for the cbr 250...(60k vs 75k)

Maybe they will market the n300 as an upgrade, just like when you go buy a car with a list of options that will increase the price. This makes sense.

[yankee99]

i am surprised that ppeople are comparing these engines at all. This is a inlinei twin with 40% more hp then the 250. I would bet with a few mods this bike would be great fun.

Imho this would be a way better sports bike then the cbr 500

yankee99 where do you get the 40% more hp from?

The crank hp for the 2008-2012 is 33 hp and the 2013 250 is 32 hp with the 300 now has 39 hp.

So the increase from the 2008-2012 to the 300 is 18.2% and from the 2013 250 to the 300 is around 21.9%.

AreaP in USA with their full exhaust system and their fuel tuner is showing up to 46 hp at the crank and Scuderia Platini in Italy with their race 300 is going up to a lil bit over 44 hp while they get more then 45 hp with the 2008-2012 engine in race trim. All the given numbers by me mean crank hp and to understand it better the 250SS for race cost nearly 20,000 euro (app. 800,000 THB).

The difference in the two 250 engines from 2008-2012 and 2013 is that the 2013 is more emission controlled and you know controlling emissions means less hp with the very best example for this take a look at the famous Corvette from 1969/1971 up to the rest and except the very new ones.

I got my info from Wikipedia but maybe its not correct or i dont understand it. I read 34.77 hp vs 25.93 which seems to be around 40% although i did it in my head as opposed to using a calculator.

"The Ninja 300 has a 296 cc (18.1 cu in) straight-twin engine.[8] Dynamometer tests by Cycle World and Motorcycle Consumer News showed that the Ninja 300 produces more power than the 250 34.77 to 34.95 hp (25.93 to 26.06 kW) compared with 25.48 hp (19.00 kW), and higher torque across the rev range at 17.45 to 18 lb·ft (23.66 to 24 N·m).[1][9] By comparison, it also features a slightly smaller 17-litre (3.7 imp gal; 4.5 US gal) fuel tank, taller gearing,[9] and a back-torque-limiting slipper clutch with an assist feature that decreases clutch lever effort.[6] Magazines tested the Ninja 300's top speed at 170.6 km/h (106.0 mph) and acceleration to be 5.6 to 6.41 seconds 0 to 97 km/h (0 to 60 mph), and 14.43 to 14.67 seconds at 141.1 to 145.77 km/h (87.7 to 90.58 mph) in the quarter mile.[1][2] Stopping distance, with ABS, from 97 to 0 km/h (60 to 0 mph) was 38.0 to 41 m (124.6 to 135 ft).[1][2] Cycle World observed a fuel economy of 70 mpg-US (3.4 L/100 km; 84 mpg-imp) while Motorcycle Consumer News managed somewhat less, 54.1 mpg-US (4.35 L/100 km; 65.0 mpg-imp), though by either methodology, the 300 showed improved gas mileage over the Ninja 250R.[1][2]"

Edited July 27, 2013 by yankee99

[yankee99]

Also if you google "ninja 250r dyno chart" click images they all seem to be in the 25 range.

[mania]

Also if you google "ninja 250r dyno chart" click images they all seem to be in the 25 range.

Your numbers are pretty much what I have seen for dyno graphs of older 250's

albeit a dyno for a "2013 FI 250" is not easy to find

Also I guess your talking rw hp & Gomyway is talking @ crank

That aside

Here is a 2013 dyno by Yosh of a 250

Looks like just over 28 hp stock

Also here is an Area P stock 2013 300 ninja at 34.11 hp

So say the 250 just over 28 & 300 just over 34 = 6hp

So say 21.5% increase which is the same basically as Gomyway said

At least these are actual dynos.

Like I said hard to find for 2013 250 as only less than 2000 units sold

I tried to dyno my 2013 250 Ninja at Bigwing CM but they said Kawasaki cannot play there

Edited July 27, 2013 by mania

[yankee99]

^^^^ no not correct. Well correct i am looking at the wheel not crank.

Stock 250 (not 2013) without a pipe is around 25hp

stock 300 is around 34hp

looks closer to 9hp......10hp = 40%

I assume these are on the same dyno

Edited July 27, 2013 by yankee99

[mania]

^^^^ no not correct. Well correct i am looking at the wheel not crank.

Stock 250 (not 2013) without a pipe is around 25hp

stock 300 is around 34hp

looks closer to 9hp......10hp = 40%

Sorry I was only comparing a 2013 250 ninja to the 300 ninja in which case it

is as Gomy said just over 21% boost up

Let me also say hey 6 hp I would gladly take

But important also to me is the total package more than the hp# alone

Even a bike like the Duke 200 only 25 ponies but I bet it is a great responsive bike

due to all the other factors. One that I would really enjoy riding.

I am sure the 300 is a great bike.

I hope to ride one to see how the theories I have pan out. Although the bikes are really too close

to tell other than of course the 300 will feel more powerful due to the added 6hp & torque

But the characteristics & response is what I would like to compare. Due to how they got their displacement

& compression ratios etc.

In fast tight twisties how does it feel? Engine wise

The absolute best scenario would be a bored 250 with its style of bore to stroke ratio & compression ratio

as a compare to see these characteristics in action

Lastly the ABS

too bad it was not optional

All in all Thailand is happy to have the 300 after being snubbed a bit last year for some unknown reason.

Because obviously it was not tax agreements etc. Seeing as the new price is up only 20k

[Gomyway]

Thank you very much yankee99, now I understand.

Please let me declare the facts used in the business and I know that guys in America and also Australia always talk about RWHP.

But this value in the real business calculation, even when it's the given hp that comes to the ground, doesn't matter - the real hp is what the manufactory is giving and that's the crank hp.

The crank hp is also used for the money you pay for the insurance.

OK and now to the dyno, everybody in the world knows that a dyno run is based on the setup parameters of the dyno machine and the SAME engine on one dyno maybe has 40 hp while on the other it has 42 hp.

Every operator will give you what you want and when he likes you or maybe he wants to sell a product given on a number of hp he'll show it a little bit higher.

Also please don't compare the carburated american Ninja to the FI here in LoS.

Here is a dyno from the Ninja 250 and when I understand it right it must be the actual 2013 version b/c it says "K" and its from Malaysia. http://ninja250rmalaysia.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10006/ninja250-D.jpg

Again the actual has 32 crank-hp and the 2008-2012 has 33 crank-hp so the older one minimum has the same hp.

The 300 I've seen dynos reaching from 34.11 rwhp up to 35.93 rwhp.

Also please don't forget that there are country-specific versions and the version for USA is (sorry to say) not the strongest b/c of the speed limit. The unspoken demand for Germany is 4 hours of fullspeed to cross the country from the north to the south on the Autobahn, there it's really possible to go that speed except sometimes when there's traffic jam. But people doing this they do it in the night time.

Have a nice weekend all together.

[yankee99]

^^^^ no not correct. Well correct i am looking at the wheel not crank.

Stock 250 (not 2013) without a pipe is around 25hp

stock 300 is around 34hp

looks closer to 9hp......10hp = 40%

Sorry I was only comparing a 2013 250 ninja to the 300 ninja in which case it

is as Gomy said just over 21% boost up

Let me also say hey 6 hp I would gladly take

But important also to me is the total package more than the hp# alone

Even a bike like the Duke 200 only 25 ponies but I bet it is a great responsive bike

due to all the other factors. One that I would really enjoy riding.

I am sure the 300 is a great bike.

I hope to ride one to see how the theories I have pan out. Although the bikes are really too close

to tell other than of course the 300 will feel more powerful due to the added 6hp & torque

But the characteristics & response is what I would like to compare. Due to how they got their displacement

& compression ratios etc.

In fast tight twisties how does it feel? Engine wise

The absolute best scenario would be a bored 250 with its style of bore to stroke ratio & compression ratio

as a compare to see these characteristics in action

Lastly the ABS

too bad it was not optional

All in all Thailand is happy to have the 300 after being snubbed a bit last year for some unknown reason.

Because obviously it was not tax agreements etc. Seeing as the new price is up only 20k

My understanding of gomy was the 2013 would have even less hp due to emissions. Anyway i will test drive one here even though i have no intention of buying. I owned a n250 before but not sure i can remember the power....

btw the weather in cm was terrible this past week

[mania]

btw the weather in cm was terrible this past week

Your telling me!

I was dying to go riding today & test my front springs but another

bad day today. But not as bad as the rest.

I hear we are in for some good storms in the next day or two also