Cheapest way to withdraw money with a foreign card

[BradinAsia]

The worst exchange rate I ever got was Kasikorn Bank, both at their money exchange (airport) and their ATM (Sukhumvit).

Since then I have given them a wide berth. Anyone else experienced this?

The ATM rate is set by your card company not the bank , of course the airport is a rip off.

By ATM rate, do you mean the dollar-baht exchange rate I get at the ATM?

So you're saying when I use my MasterCard from a bank in San Antonio, Texas

the MasterCard company sets the ATM exchange rate of my withdrawal in Bkk.

I think I'm missing something here.

YES that's exactly correct ..... you would think the Bkk bank would but they don't. In reality the market sets the rate and the card company follows whatever rate the market sets. but the rate you are given or charged however you look at it, is set by the card company not either bank.

Okay, thanks for the good info.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I've heard Citibank ATMs don't charge the fee either - can anyone confirm that from actual usage?

Correct. I used Citibank ATMs at Asoke and Central World. No fees. But I believe there are no other ATMs except for these 2 places.

I believe that's out of date.. Citibank ATMs used to NOT charge the 150 baht ATM withdrawal fee. But they began doing so some months back. There's a separate TV thread here on that change having occurred.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Different facts to separate.

1) Thai bank fee:

all Thai Banks with the known exception of AEON keep a fee for each ATM transaction with a foreign card.

The fee has been risen from 150 THB to 180 THB a short time ago.

With the maximum amount of 20000 THB on most ATMs that comes close to 1%.

Bangsters!

2) Issuing bank fee:

has been discussed above. I am not from UK or US and it would not help you to get tips on german banks,

But as in UK or US there are german banks which do not charge a fee for ATM transactions and also reimburse the Thai bank fee on application.

3) Exchange rate:

the rate is usually determined by the debit/credit card organisation.

For European VISA it can be looked up here:

http://www.visaeurope.com/en/cardholders/exchange_rates.aspx

For US VISA:

http://corporate.visa.com/pd/consumer_services/consumer_ex_rates.jsp?src=ex_rez

BUT:

some Thai banks do so called "Dynamic Currency Conversion" (DCC).

NEVER use such ATMs (they are usually marked).

DCC means: the Thai bank does the currency exchange to your currency using their own rates and charge the card with your currency. The exchange rates used are terrible and would probably fullfil the criminal offence of exortion (I do not know whether they are publicised in the internet).

With the bad exception of DCC the exchange rates are identical whichever ATM you use.

They are determined by the credit card company and not the Thai bank.

4) Cash in at the bank counter

Often you read the advice: walk into the banks branch and cash the money at the desk showing your debit/credit card and passport (looking like no fee is charged).

Don't do that!

This is not an ATM transaction (but a cash forward?) and will always result in much higher fees (rude awakening when the statement comes in).

That's pretty good and accurate advice given above...

The problem with the OP is most of the UK banks have pretty high foreign currency transaction fees on their debit cards. And those card users are going to get hit by those (the UK bank fees) even if they use AEON ATMs, which don't charge a fee at the Thai end.

There are probably a half dozen or so different bank card options in the UK that don't charge foreign currency fees, the most prominent of which is probably Metro Bank, but my UK brethren here report that for the time being, only people who live around central London can qualify to open new accounts with them. There are a few other no fee offerings from some building societies and such...

As stated in the post above, with the exception of ATM transactions involving DCC (Dynamic Currency Conversion, where the user has to manually opt to be charged (at a low rate) in their own currency, all the other Thai bank ATM transactions are going to use the card networks (VISA, MC, etc) international rates. So those won't vary from Thai bank to Thai bank ATM.

Edited June 24, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[SGD]

Hi all,

I come to thailand 3 or 4 months every year,

Having been had for fees every transaction for years one day i decided to do a bit of research into which would be the cheapest way to change from £s to THB..

Sterling travellers cheques is what i came up with...

1% to buy the cheques first of all and 33bhat to change the cheque up in thailand,,

Am i correct or wide of the mark and missing something?????

Cheers...

When you start getting ripped for around Bt150 on Bt10,000 so 1.5% and another 2.5% or so from your card issuer (as poor FX rates) and potentially another £1 or £2 flat fee, representing maybe another 1% or so, then you are losing around 5% of your money.

Anyone going more than a couple of times should have a Thai account and if they need the remainder when they go home, it is easy to withdraw up to Bt200,000 per account, per day through your home ATM network.

[MrRealDeal]

Hi all,

I come to thailand 3 or 4 months every year,

Having been had for fees every transaction for years one day i decided to do a bit of research into which would be the cheapest way to change from £s to THB..

Sterling travellers cheques is what i came up with...

1% to buy the cheques first of all and 33bhat to change the cheque up in thailand,,

Am i correct or wide of the mark and missing something?????

Cheers...

When you start getting ripped for around Bt150 on Bt10,000 so 1.5% and another 2.5% or so from your card issuer (as poor FX rates) and potentially another £1 or £2 flat fee, representing maybe another 1% or so, then you are losing around 5% of your money.

Anyone going more than a couple of times should have a Thai account and if they need the remainder when they go home, it is easy to withdraw up to Bt200,000 per account, per day through your home ATM network.

Most people do not have a 6000 USD availability of daily withdraw on an ATM .... And as mentioned that's just one way to solve the problem. I also fail to see how you would accomplish much by transferring 6000 per day to Thailand in a lump sum swift transfer just to pay the fees back home to get it back.

[DekDaeng]

No but Aeon has fee free withdraws .... the amount is different because the rate changed between your withdrawing not because the rate is different at each machine or bank.

Check / photograph balance before & after withdrawing - I have found a discrepancy of 150 baht each time I used aeon. Irrespective of amount drawn.

If you have a card on the UnionPay system, charge is 50 baht per draw.

Edited June 24, 2013 by DekDaeng

[Gnasher328]

For UK travellers.

I took out a Norwich & Peterborough BS debit card which seemed to work well although I have not done a detailed check for rate issues. See www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/cheap-travel-money#cheapest.

T.

[snooky]

Not sure about all banks but I have a Thai bank account plus a CapOne in the US. I set up an international transfer between the two accounts and get almost the official exchange rate for the day of the transfers. Have to wait three days but worth it.

If you are retired and from the US, you can get a great rate - very close to official exchange rate - by having your SS paid directly into your BKK Bank account. This has to be set up through BKK Bank here, in a separate account wherein you must go to the bank personally and withdraw your funds (obviously to make sure you are still alive and no one else grabbing it). Then I just deposit it into my account where I use my local atm for use.

Edited June 24, 2013 by snooky

[carken]

No but Aeon has fee free withdraws .... the amount is different because the rate changed between your withdrawing not because the rate is different at each machine or bank.

I used to think this also until someone with more experience than I proved it to be misleading. I have gone to the mall with several "different" bank ATMs within a few steps of one another. I made identical withdrawal amounts (10,000B) from 5 "different" bank ATM machines within literally 2 minutes of each one. I was charged 5 different withdrawal amounts to my original home country bank account. The Thai Baht exchange rate doesn't change that fast ..... which simply means that all five of these banks charged me 5 "different" exchange rates for the exact same withdrawal amount. Just to verify these facts I went to three of these "different" banks branch offices in the mall and asked what the current exchange rate would be for 10,000B. the live person voice rate quotes were the same as the ATM rate, My conclusion from this exercise was that ...... YES different banks and their ATMs do charge different rates at the exact same date and time.

Also did lots of research into banks in my home country that reimburses Thai bank ATM fees. I found one(1) only. USAA bank in Texas USA. I opened an account their and I personally have been reimbursed Thai bank ATM fees ..... I have no personal experience with Schwab but as I understand it with my limited knowledge it takes more money than I have to open the needed Schwab (at least 2) accounts to get their cards

By the way Yes it's true SCB ATM's now charge 180B for each cash withdrawal

[GreenSnapper]

I've heard Citibank ATMs don't charge the fee either - can anyone confirm that from actual usage?

Correct. I used Citibank ATMs at Asoke and Central World. No fees. But I believe there are no other ATMs except for these 2 places.

Citibank has a once per month fee for the entire month not no fee at all. Meaning you can use it as many times as you want in a month for one fee or not at all for no fee , which if you used a lot is a savings but it's not "free".

The withdrawing part yes the Citibank fee not so much.

I didn't talk about Citibank cards.

You can use Citibank ATM's with your foreign card and you don't get the 150B charge other Thai banks charge.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

You can use Citibank ATM's with your foreign card and you don't get the 150B charge other Thai banks charge.

As I said earlier in this thread, at least with U.S. VISA cards, that's no longer true.

After being fee-free for a long time, the last couple times I used the Citibank ATMs at Asoke they clearly tried to assess a 150 baht withdrawal fee, including the warning on the ATM screen that a fee would be charged by Citibank if I proceeded.

And no, my home bank card doesn't charge any fee. And no, I wasn't using a U.S. Citibank card, it was a VISA debit card from a different U.S. bank.

Whether that's true for bank cards from all other countries, I can't say. But when people from other countries use their cards at other Thai banks' ATMs, they usually get the 150b fee (or now 180b fee for MasterCard logo cards). There seem to be fairly few exceptions to that rule/fee.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

No but Aeon has fee free withdraws .... the amount is different because the rate changed between your withdrawing not because the rate is different at each machine or bank.

I used to think this also until someone with more experience than I proved it to be misleading. I have gone to the mall with several "different" bank ATMs within a few steps of one another. I made identical withdrawal amounts (10,000B) from 5 "different" bank ATM machines within literally 2 minutes of each one. I was charged 5 different withdrawal amounts to my original home country bank account. The Thai Baht exchange rate doesn't change that fast ..... which simply means that all five of these banks charged me 5 "different" exchange rates for the exact same withdrawal amount. Just to verify these facts I went to three of these "different" banks branch offices in the mall and asked what the current exchange rate would be for 10,000B. the live person voice rate quotes were the same as the ATM rate, My conclusion from this exercise was that ...... YES different banks and their ATMs do charge different rates at the exact same date and time.

Also did lots of research into banks in my home country that reimburses Thai bank ATM fees. I found one(1) only. USAA bank in Texas USA. I opened an account their and I personally have been reimbursed Thai bank ATM fees ..... I have no personal experience with Schwab but as I understand it with my limited knowledge it takes more money than I have to open the needed Schwab (at least 2) accounts to get their cards

By the way Yes it's true SCB ATM's now charge 180B for each cash withdrawal

You're off base on quite a few details here...

1. There are lots of U.S. banks and credit unions that reimburse ATM fees, including foreign ones. But they aren't typically the big mega banks that do it. It's often the smaller banks and credit unions, including many that just service residents in their state or local area. Included in that are banks and CU's that offer so-called rewards checking accounts, where typically 10 or so POS purchases are required per month on the card in order to qualify for a high interest rate and ATM fee refunds.

2. There aren't any high balance requirements for opening a checking account with Charles Schwab. You are required to open one of their brokerage accounts as a companion account. But you don't have to put any money in it or do any trading out of it. I had a Schwab account for years with nary a dime in the brokerage account, and always could use the checking account fine and qualified for ATM refunds just fine. Actually, in just checking on Schwab's checking, no monthly fees and no account balance minimums.

http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/banking_lending/checking_account

3. I've done exactly the same test as you -- making multiple back to back withdrawals using the same U.S. single debit card at different Thai bank ATMs located next to each other. And every time I've done that test, the resulting debits from the various banks have been identical.

There could be some differences that account for variations, though:

--VISA and MC (which handle the exchange rate transactions for international ATM withdrawals) change their rates once a day, each at different times.

--Some Thai banks, when the user has a MC logo card, will offer DCC (Dynamic Currency Conversion), wherein the customer is asked by the ATM if they want to make the withdrawal debit in their own home country currency. If the customer agrees, the bank then uses its own lower exchange rate (not the VISA or MC rates) and makes a bigger profit on the transaction.

BTW, whatever the Thai bank staff tells you at the branch or on the phone has nothing to do with the rates used by their ATMs (with the exception of DCC instances). They typically would only know their own individual bank rates, which they use for cash transactions at the branch or in handling incoming wire transfers -- not the VISA or MC ATM rates.

Edited June 25, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[frimu]

Used to be the case..., at least the ones in the CitiBank building @ Asoke. But they started charging the fee a few months back too.

Sigh. . .

OK, back to Aeon only then.

That's just not true! I still withdraw money exactly there without getting charged a fee! I use the Plus system by Visa and it is a card from the Swiss post bank. Maybe it depends on where you from??? Or maybe it depends which international payment system you use???

[frimu]

No but Aeon has fee free withdraws .... the amount is different because the rate changed between your withdrawing not because the rate is different at each machine or bank.

Thank you!

I'd happily pay the 150Thb. rather than stand behind a line of Thais at an Aeon atm. I think they are paying bills or something, you think one is finished when all of a sudden he whips out another card and starts again.

Avoid Aeon end of the month and you should be fine. :-) That's what I heard...

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

AEON is mainly a credit and cash loan card company, and their ATM machines accept cash payments on those credit/loan card accounts.

Thus at the end of every month, when most Thais get paid, there's a crush of heavily in-debt Thais going to make their minimum monthly payments on accounts that charge interest at the rate of 20 to 30% APR...

I'm sure that helps in terms of AEON not charging foreign ATM fees. But the real reason is, AEON isn't a Thai bank, so they don't fall into the same group and regulations as all the others that do charge the foreign card ATM withdrawal fee.

BTW, thanks for the other posts by non-U.S. folks re using the Citibank ATMs in BKK. Based on those reports here, it does seem there are variations in terms of which home country cards get charged the ATM fee and which still don't. Perhaps there's some kind of EU international cross-border banking regulation coming into play here...

[BradinAsia]

AEON is mainly a credit and cash loan card company, and their ATM machines accept cash payments on those credit/loan card accounts.

Thus at the end of every month, when most Thais get paid, there's a crush of heavily in-debt Thais going to make their minimum monthly payments on accounts that charge interest at the rate of 20 to 30% APR...

I'm sure that helps in terms of AEON not charging foreign ATM fees. But the real reason is, AEON isn't a Thai bank, so they don't fall into the same group and regulations as all the others that do charge the foreign card ATM withdrawal fee.

BTW, thanks for the other posts by non-U.S. folks re using the Citibank ATMs in BKK. Based on those reports here, it does seem there are variations in terms of which home country cards get charged the ATM fee and which still don't. Perhaps there's some kind of EU international cross-border banking regulation coming into play here...

To say Aeon is not a Thai bank is a bit inaccurate. Every bank in Thailand is a Thai corporation.

Same as MacDonalds or 7/11, the brand may be American, but in Thailand it's a Thai corporation.

Okay, carry on.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

No...it's not inaccurate. It's entirely accurate.

AEON isn't licensed or regulated as a bank by the Thai government or the Bank of Thailand, despite having ATMs.

They don't offer checking or savings accounts or time deposits. They don't pay interest. They don't exchange currency, etc etc etc.

Of course AEON is a Thai corporation. But so are CP and True... But that doesn't make them banks either.

The Bank of Thailand classes AEON as both a credit card and personal finance company -- not a commercial or retail bank.

http://www.bot.or.th/English/FinancialInstitutions/WebsiteFI/Pages/instList.aspx

Edited June 25, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[misterphil]

Today, for the first time (in my memory) I used a Krungthai Bank ATM.

Made a withdrawal using my U.S. debit card -- on the screen was displayed

the total amount of the withdrawal in baht, the ATM fee, the exact exchange

rate (29.78) and the amount in dollars deducted from my account.

This was the last screen shown before I click OK. Which means if I didn't like

the rate I could cancel.

Bangkok Bank ATMs (which I have been using) don't give that kind of info.

The exchange rate is 30.99 so you lost 2 baht per dollar there.

[luckyluke]

This was the D.C.C. , you better refused the transaction.

[misterphil]

For UK residents the Nationwide Flex Plus account.

http://www.nationwide.co.uk/current_account/flexplus/default.htm

No commission on overseas ATM withdrawals. You get the VISA exchange rate.

Yes but you pay £10 a month for this.

[DekDaeng]

TO ALL USING AEON ATMs -

Check balance (& photograph) before & after withdrawals.

Pls advise result.

;-)

[Pinot]

The worst exchange rate I ever got was Kasikorn Bank, both at their money exchange (airport) and their ATM (Sukhumvit).

Since then I have given them a wide berth. Anyone else experienced this?

It can change hourly. See the link in my post above. There is no consistency with which bank to use. Kasikorn can be the best and the worst in a 24 hour period.

[recycler]

There is an app Thai Baht Exchange that gives the current rates of Thai banks.

I had to replace an atm card once after fraud after using on Aeon, I avoid them and also smaller Thai banks

[taqila]

If you are an American and have ever been in the Military or Government Employee you can join USAA Bank on-line and your debit card charges are returned to your account each month. I believe it's 5 transactions per month at least.

[stoli]

The best site I found for up to the date exchange rates http://bankexchangerates.daytodaydata.net/ In the currency type box use the TT rate.

I was looking at the $ to the baht exchange rate in the past year. On 80000 a month it's now costing me $280 less now for four 20000 withdrawals a month.

Find a card that refunds ATM fees. They're out there.

If you use the Currency Calculator on the Bangkok Bank website, here: http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/WebServices/Rates/Pages/FX_Rates.aspx

you will see that they pay the Bank Note Buying Rate, which is less than the TT Buying Rate. Put a number in, let it do the calculations, and it works out exactly to the Bank Note Buying Rate. I have seen other posts say that they give the TT Buying Rate. What am I missing?

[abrahamzvi]

I do have a German Credit card (as well as an EC card) and I do not know of any German bank that does not charge a fee for ATM transactions in foreign (non EURO) countries, or rebate the Thai charges. Normally, they carge between 1.5 to 2% 9the same as when using a credit card in a forein country to purchase goods) and in some cases where the amount is low, say under EURO 100, they will charge a fixed amount. The latest experience that I had was last month in the UK, when I used my German EC card to draw GDP100 from an ATM. I was debited with a charge of EUR 5 (which amounts to 5%!).

I would be most graeful for any names of the generous German banks!

Different facts to separate.

1) Thai bank fee:

all Thai Banks with the known exception of AEON keep a fee for each ATM transaction with a foreign card.

The fee has been risen from 150 THB to 180 THB a short time ago.

With the maximum amount of 20000 THB on most ATMs that comes close to 1%.

Bangsters!

2) Issuing bank fee:

has been discussed above. I am not from UK or US and it would not help you to get tips on german banks,

But as in UK or US there are german banks which do not charge a fee for ATM transactions and also reimburse the Thai bank fee on application.

3) Exchange rate:

the rate is usually determined by the debit/credit card organisation.

For European VISA it can be looked up here:

http://www.visaeurope.com/en/cardholders/exchange_rates.aspx

For US VISA:

http://corporate.visa.com/pd/consumer_services/consumer_ex_rates.jsp?src=ex_rez

BUT:

some Thai banks do so called "Dynamic Currency Conversion" (DCC).

NEVER use such ATMs (they are usually marked).

DCC means: the Thai bank does the currency exchange to your currency using their own rates and charge the card with your currency. The exchange rates used are terrible and would probably fullfil the criminal offence of exortion (I do not know whether they are publicised in the internet).

With the bad exception of DCC the exchange rates are identical whichever ATM you use.

They are determined by the credit card company and not the Thai bank.

4) Cash in at the bank counter

Often you read the advice: walk into the banks branch and cash the money at the desk showing your debit/credit card and passport (looking like no fee is charged).

Don't do that!

This is not an ATM transaction (but a cash forward?) and will always result in much higher fees (rude awakening when the statement comes in).

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

If you are an American and have ever been in the Military or Government Employee you can join USAA Bank on-line and your debit card charges are returned to your account each month. I believe it's 5 transactions per month at least.

The one downside to USAA is they now charge a 1% foreign currency fee on their debit card.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The best site I found for up to the date exchange rates http://bankexchangerates.daytodaydata.net/ In the currency type box use the TT rate.

I was looking at the $ to the baht exchange rate in the past year. On 80000 a month it's now costing me $280 less now for four 20000 withdrawals a month.

Find a card that refunds ATM fees. They're out there.

If you use the Currency Calculator on the Bangkok Bank website, here: http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/WebServices/Rates/Pages/FX_Rates.aspx

you will see that they pay the Bank Note Buying Rate, which is less than the TT Buying Rate. Put a number in, let it do the calculations, and it works out exactly to the Bank Note Buying Rate. I have seen other posts say that they give the TT Buying Rate. What am I missing?

The buying TT rate is the exchange rate Thai banks use for their own local exchanges, such as incoming international wire transfers, or if you walk into a branch with your home country cash and ask for baht.

The international exchange ATM rates set by VISA and MC and used for foreign country ATM card withdrawals are usually a bit better than the local banks buying TT rates, and usually VISA logo cards get a better rate than MC logo ones do.

The various rates the Thai banks display on their websites don't show the VISA and MC rates used for international ATM transactions -- except on those cases where the bank is offering Dynamic Currency Conversion for MasterCard logo cards at their own lousy/low exchange rate.

Edited June 25, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Tiethilo]

German banks with free credit cards without foreign atm fee:

DKB

ComDirekt

Advanzia (www.gebuhrenfrei.com)

there are more, just use Google for a kreditkartenvergleichswebsite (gotta love our zusammengesetzte substantive).

advanzia's card sounds like everything anyone could hope for and it's indeed a great cards, I've had it for years and my limit is now at EUR 7500 without any monthly income, but I don't actually use it for cash withdrawals, because even tho they don't have a fixed fee or conversion fee for atm transactions, they do charge interest until you pay your bill. this only applies to cash withdrawals, so I use this card for paying at pos or online and use dkb or comdirekt for cash withdrawals as those are truly free of any fees worldwide. these on the other hand charge a percentage on payments made in other currencies than Euro, so you need advanzia and either dkb or comdirekt to always have a free option.

if anyone here considers getting any of these cards, maybe you like to pm me with your email, I can refer you as a friend and we both get EUR 50 bonus.

do note that dkb in particular offers the possibility to open their account from any foreign country with only minor paperwork. the others I'm not sure as I opened them in Germany, but they will probably come up with a expat solution if requested.

when asked for your income don't be afraid to overstate, they can't check and it will give you higher limits (unless you have a bad schufa).

hope that helps,

I'm looking fwd to being back in Thailand tmrw,

best wishes to all from India,

Thilo

[CNXTim]

Thanks for the tip on the Aeon ATM.

I went to the machine upstairs in Siam TV Chiang Mai (opens at 10:00) - it is located outside the small finance company office.

I ran a withdrawal and checked today's $A/THB TT rate from SCB which matched exactly the debit amount shown at my bank, and no ATM fee, so far, so good.

I will have to wait till the end of the month to check for any additional fees showing up on my Australian Bank account.

I will post the results here...