Education Min Phongthep admits Thai education system unsatisfactory

[culicine]

I worked out my school must gross 100M per year at the minimum - excluding donations and registration fees. Salaries wouldn't be half of that. I wonder how much the church gets? Money certainly isn't being spent on resources. Anywhere else in the world parents would be outraged and the lack of resources given the money they spend. Salaries wouldn't be half of that. One the previous director boasted that sales of food to the kids paid our salaries!

But lets not forget our beloved tutorial schools - also untaxed and a major reason why students don't bother to listen at school. These are ONLY business and nothing about education.

[Noistar]

'Bring in more English speaking teachers'?

Schools are under the impression that Thai English teachers are 'English speakers'.

My daughter's English teacher is Filipino. It might be better than a Thai, but not much, especially as her Thai is limited!

If they're serious about English skills they need native English speakers.

Anyway, at the moment it is brave words from the minister. Doesn't seem to indicate that the tablets have been a roaring success for improving education standards.

[seajae]

maybe if they actually graded the students on their work and did not use false pass marks it would make the students work harder but that would mean losing face to the rest of the world due to the pathetic knowledge these kids have. I play scrabble with my daughter and 90% of the words she uses are not words yet they were given to her by her teacher, they are as dumb as dog sh*t but they refuse to admit it.

[trainman34014]

More lip service. Talking the talk is one thing; walking the walk is quite another.

[pisico]

My son attend a privat school in Surin 1 class or patum 1 or what they call it, english program. The english book they are using is written by two thais, i guess well paid for their effort. It is just terrible. When i complain to the teachers they just say, yes its all about practise. But when a 7 year old have to learn words he dont understand, i understand why the thais dont speak english. And i pay 25000 bth a term for this kind of rubbish, im at a loss what to do. Move to Bangkok or Chiang Mai to get him into an international school or what.

The total cost of books for my son was about 2000 baht for the year. He is in grade 4. These are mostly books from Singapore which are fine. They basically follow the primary course from the UK, Singapore style. The science book is based on the Thai curriculum but written by foreigners. I've not found any conceptual or grammatical errors in any book so far. There's no need to use material poorly written by overpaid Thais who don't have fluent grasp of the language, and won't accept there are any errors in their work!

Thais are self absorbed in their Thainess. The one major character flaw in their attitudes is never to admit that there are egregious wrongs in various areas of Thai society, government and business. If something that is wrong is not admitted, even when reality shows so every day, what is the possibility that it will ever be corrected?

[pisico]

If government REALLY cares about education. Why not build Public Libraries in each and every district?

Make knowledge and education ACCESSIBLE to everyone. What do you think?

[rubl]

""Despite a tremendous amount of money Thailand has put into its educational system""

Obviously we need to cut down, like in the rice pledging which over 2012/2013 may get into the same 420 billion figures. Now waiting for some fool knowledgeble person to suggest a salary cut for teachers, more tabletPCs and the Minister with help of Provincial Governor's going round explaining the 'good news' to all involved.

[wilcopops]

"Despite a tremendous amount of money Thailand has put into its educational system" and officials have then taken out.

If the money in the way it was intended by people who knew what they were doing, Thailand would have an international standard education system.

If you just took a quick glance at the Thai education system you'd know that straight forward money and corruption is not the only problem.

The education offered is pretty archaic and there are many reasons for this - one undoubtedly is corruption in that graft and nepotism ensures that the whole education hierarchy is littered with people who simply aren't up to the job, largely because they didn't get their jobs through merit.

in fact their are quite a few good buildings etc but it is quite often the educational content that is lacking.

It is certainly true that the employment of western teachers in schools brings about change not only in EL but also in many other fields.

[Bagwan]

My son attend a privat school in Surin 1 class or patum 1 or what they call it, english program. The english book they are using is written by two thais, i guess well paid for their effort. It is just terrible. When i complain to the teachers they just say, yes its all about practise. But when a 7 year old have to learn words he dont understand, i understand why the thais dont speak english. And i pay 25000 bth a term for this kind of rubbish, im at a loss what to do. Move to Bangkok or Chiang Mai to get him into an international school or what.

The total cost of books for my son was about 2000 baht for the year. He is in grade 4. These are mostly books from Singapore which are fine. They basically follow the primary course from the UK, Singapore style. The science book is based on the Thai curriculum but written by foreigners. I've not found any conceptual or grammatical errors in any book so far. There's no need to use material poorly written by overpaid Thais who don't have fluent grasp of the language, and won't accept there are any errors in their work!

My kids are using the Singapore books also.

Still don't grasp why they teach science and maths in two languages and then English separately also. Surely it would be better to teach English as a stand alone subject and let maths and science stay in Thai?

Total duplication of the subject matter is a waste of time massively increases the requirement to find more and more native speakers to cover the science and maths subjects.

What are the Thai words for hypotenuse, algorithm, simultaneity, radian, anhydrous, fission, meniscus? English, the language of science and technology.

[Thai at Heart]

My son attend a privat school in Surin 1 class or patum 1 or what they call it, english program. The english book they are using is written by two thais, i guess well paid for their effort. It is just terrible. When i complain to the teachers they just say, yes its all about practise. But when a 7 year old have to learn words he dont understand, i understand why the thais dont speak english. And i pay 25000 bth a term for this kind of rubbish, im at a loss what to do. Move to Bangkok or Chiang Mai to get him into an international school or what.

The total cost of books for my son was about 2000 baht for the year. He is in grade 4. These are mostly books from Singapore which are fine. They basically follow the primary course from the UK, Singapore style. The science book is based on the Thai curriculum but written by foreigners. I've not found any conceptual or grammatical errors in any book so far. There's no need to use material poorly written by overpaid Thais who don't have fluent grasp of the language, and won't accept there are any errors in their work!

My kids are using the Singapore books also.

Still don't grasp why they teach science and maths in two languages and then English separately also. Surely it would be better to teach English as a stand alone subject and let maths and science stay in Thai?

Total duplication of the subject matter is a waste of time massively increases the requirement to find more and more native speakers to cover the science and maths subjects.

What are the Thai words for hypotenuse, algorithm, simultaneity, radian, anhydrous, fission, meniscus? English, the language of science and technology.

But I don't think it's particularly relevant for 7 to 12 year olds.

Aren't they principally Greek words anyway? How does having a native speaker help them any more than a Thai. I would prefer they just had a good teacher and devoted the extra time to more specific English than duplicating lessons.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Thai at Heart

[WhizBang]

My son attend a privat school in Surin 1 class or patum 1 or what they call it, english program. The english book they are using is written by two thais, i guess well paid for their effort. It is just terrible. When i complain to the teachers they just say, yes its all about practise. But when a 7 year old have to learn words he dont understand, i understand why the thais dont speak english. And i pay 25000 bth a term for this kind of rubbish, im at a loss what to do. Move to Bangkok or Chiang Mai to get him into an international school or what.

NO. Get him out of Thailand and into a country that has a GOOD educational system.

Here, even the (so called) international schools suck.

[seminomadic]

If government REALLY cares about education. Why not build Public Libraries in each and every district?

Make knowledge and education ACCESSIBLE to everyone. What do you think?

I think taking the funds intended for public libraries and burning it for the heat we need on a March afternoon in Bangkok would have as much benefit. Thais don't read. It's not a book-reading culture as Vietnam, Japan or China is.

The internet provides a pretty good amount of reading material for those with a thirst for learning. I think wi-fi access in every district makes infinitely more sense on a financial and cultural level.

[Roadman]

Personally I think they should keep Education Minister Phongthep on.

He is the first to publicly admit that the system needs changing.

He said

"he says the ministry has drawn up some solutions to the problem such as changing students’ and teachers’ perspectives by urging them to think and analyze instead of memorizing known as “rote learning”.

Notice he said nothing about using a machine. Also said teachers learn how to think and analyze. Funny how this thread can turn into the same old same same when a new element is added.

My wife's daughter and family just moved here to Chiang Mai from Nonkong Si Tamarhet. Sorry about the spelling. At any rate her two grand daughters were here after school doing a little home work. Turns out the 9 year old is learning English to what degree of quality two days of learning does not allow me to comment on. She is also learning in school some of the Chinese alphabet. The wife said just a little bit.

The way the wheels of progress can turn ever so slow they still need a start and I do believe this public announcement by the Minister of Education is a start.

You mean like Yingluck, when new PM, stood with Abhisit in a 'start' against corruption. I hope you are right but given the Thai lip service and incompetence those machine words that were missing will be put forward as the great Pheu Thai educational leap forward into ASEAN.

[anon467848]

I'll wager that not a single government minister kids go to a Thai school.... Their kids will be educated at an expensive International school or schooled overseas in Singapore, Oz or the UK.

Not much wonder the govt. doesn't have a clue as to how bad the education system is, nor do they really care, not their problem...

[hellodolly]

Personally I think they should keep Education Minister Phongthep on.

He is the first to publicly admit that the system needs changing.

He said

"he says the ministry has drawn up some solutions to the problem such as changing students’ and teachers’ perspectives by urging them to think and analyze instead of memorizing known as “rote learning”.

Notice he said nothing about using a machine. Also said teachers learn how to think and analyze. Funny how this thread can turn into the same old same same when a new element is added.

My wife's daughter and family just moved here to Chiang Mai from Nonkong Si Tamarhet. Sorry about the spelling. At any rate her two grand daughters were here after school doing a little home work. Turns out the 9 year old is learning English to what degree of quality two days of learning does not allow me to comment on. She is also learning in school some of the Chinese alphabet. The wife said just a little bit.

The way the wheels of progress can turn ever so slow they still need a start and I do believe this public announcement by the Minister of Education is a start.

You mean like Yingluck, when new PM, stood with Abhisit in a 'start' against corruption. I hope you are right but given the Thai lip service and incompetence those machine words that were missing will be put forward as the great Pheu Thai educational leap forward into ASEAN.

Ya but then she abandoned him and tried to think on her own with out a tablet.

[Unkomoncents]

"Despite a tremendous amount of money Thailand has put into its educational system" and officials have then taken out.

If the money in the way it was intended by people who knew what they were doing, Thailand would have an international standard education system.

If you just took a quick glance at the Thai education system you'd know that straight forward money and corruption is not the only problem.

The education offered is pretty archaic and there are many reasons for this - one undoubtedly is corruption in that graft and nepotism ensures that the whole education hierarchy is littered with people who simply aren't up to the job, largely because they didn't get their jobs through merit.

in fact their are quite a few good buildings etc but it is quite often the educational content that is lacking.

It is certainly true that the employment of western teachers in schools brings about change not only in EL but also in many other fields.

Dead on. They could bring in new books, a standardized curriculum, and a bevy of well-credentialed foreign teachers and it wouldn't make a dent in Thailand's education problems. For one thing, the MOE has allowed its authority to become so decentralized that when the Ministry announced that it would relax dress-code requirements in Thai schools, conservative heads of some of Bangkok's schools immediately announced that they wouldn't cooperate in the slightest with such changes. This is indicative of just how difficult any system-wide reforms would be to implement. The MOE would literally have to clean its ranks and hire a completely new administrative corps. Has anyone on this forum ever seen a Thai organization completely clean house?

This above question eases into view the much larger problem with education in Thailand. Thailand has very deep-seated attitudes and cultural predilections that the country is loathe to part with. These attitudes inform a view of the world and of education that, on the most fundamental of levels, is not conducive to effective, quality classroom experiences. The article mentions that Phongthep has noticed the gap in performance between Thai students and students from other ASEAN countries. Since 2011, it has been noted that Thais spend more per capita on education than Singaporean or Taiwanese nationals with paltry comparative results. Anyone who has ever experienced teaching in a Thai classroom can immediately start pointing to things that help explain this. Thai schools notoriously offer low salaries and are not inclined to invest in teaching talent. When a new foreign teacher comes on staff, there is sharp learning curve, as the foreign teacher must be disabused of any notions about how they might conduct themselves in a Thai classroom (farang teachers will remember the Thai Language and Culture course fiasco that has recenlty faded into memory). For one thing, the foreign teacher will be required to pass all students, regardless of performance on evaluations that are often established based purely on the arbitrary whims of Thai administrative and teaching staff. Also, teachers can expect major policy decisions regarding everything from textbooks to Sports Day (which seems like almost every day) to change, and then change again, and then change again, all in a period of two weeks in the middle of term 1. These are just two of most common major problems with teaching in Thailand.

The things listed above are all just symptoms of the much larger problems with education in Thailand. For someone to need education, the operating assumption is that that pupil is lacking in some knowledge capacity and therefore needs to experience instruction so as to correct for the gaps in knowledge. In Thailand, on a very basic level, people are very uncomfortable with accepting that there is anything lacking about anyone. To admit that you lack knowledge would be to lose face in Thailand. Therefore, education on a most basic level is incongruous with the dynamics of Thai culture. This is why no one is ever allowed to fail. To fail would constitute a grevious loss of face for most Thais. Therefore, it can be seen that Thailand's famous no-fail policy is simply a symptom of a much larger cultural predilection. Thai culture and quality education are essentially mutually exclusive. You cannot have one without the other. There is so much more to cover that it's harldy worth continuing. I will end this by saying that it is unsurprising that beyond the money, Phongthep and company are not interested in probing the differences between schools in Thailand and schools in Malaysia, Singapore or even Cambodia. Thailand is very, very, very proud of the fact that it hasn't been colonized (while all of its ASEAN neighbors have). This has manifested itself in a jingoistic worldview (Thais have few allies in their region and even around the globe [the big ones are the US and China, but I wouldn't consider either of those countries to be equal partners with Thailand]) that basically prevents Thai people from even considering that a non-Thai approach to something might have merits. Everything in Thailand must be done the Thai way, regardless of how wrongheaded or even long-ago-discredited that "way" might be. The other ASEAN countries have more significant exposure to foreign cultures on a deeper level than Thailand. This isn't to suggest that Thailand should have been colonized. It just means that the idea of "best practices" is completely alien and therefore wrong in the minds of most Thais. Ultimately, Thailand will probably have to experience stagnant wage growth and diminished GDP for a generation or more while its neighbors, like Malaysia, achieve upper-income status. This dynamic has already begun, which is why we keep reading articles about Thai education. On some level, they know there is a problem. However, changing things in the Kingdom will require an approach that will likely be regarded by most as "un-Thai". It will be very, VERY hard indeed for Thailand to reform its educational infrastructure.

[Noistar]

I'll wager that not a single government minister kids go to a Thai school.... Their kids will be educated at an expensive International school or schooled overseas in Singapore, Oz or the UK.

Not much wonder the govt. doesn't have a clue as to how bad the education system is, nor do they really care, not their problem...

But do they need to worry?

Want a degree? Sorted. Want a top, over-paid job? Sorted.

Overseas education would benefit those who genuinely want an effective education.

Is that a requirement in Thailand?

Is there any way of determining whether a Thai Graduate has a degree earned from hard work and ability, or whether it came off-the-shelf? Perhaps that's why a Thai degree isn't treated seriously in the real world.

[Noistar]

"Despite a tremendous amount of money Thailand has put into its educational system" and officials have then taken out.

If the money in the way it was intended by people who knew what they were doing, Thailand would have an international standard education system.

If you just took a quick glance at the Thai education system you'd know that straight forward money and corruption is not the only problem.

The education offered is pretty archaic and there are many reasons for this - one undoubtedly is corruption in that graft and nepotism ensures that the whole education hierarchy is littered with people who simply aren't up to the job, largely because they didn't get their jobs through merit.

in fact their are quite a few good buildings etc but it is quite often the educational content that is lacking.

It is certainly true that the employment of western teachers in schools brings about change not only in EL but also in many other fields.

Dead on. They could bring in new books, a standardized curriculum, and a bevy of well-credentialed foreign teachers and it wouldn't make a dent in Thailand's education problems. For one thing, the MOE has allowed its authority to become so decentralized that when the Ministry announced that it would relax dress-code requirements in Thai schools, conservative heads of some of Bangkok's schools immediately announced that they wouldn't cooperate in the slightest with such changes. This is indicative of just how difficult any system-wide reforms would be to implement. The MOE would literally have to clean its ranks and hire a completely new administrative corps. Has anyone on this forum ever seen a Thai organization completely clean house?

This above question eases into view the much larger problem with education in Thailand. Thailand has very deep-seated attitudes and cultural predilections that the country is loathe to part with. These attitudes inform a view of the world and of education that, on the most fundamental of levels, is not conducive to effective, quality classroom experiences. The article mentions that Phongthep has noticed the gap in performance between Thai students and students from other ASEAN countries. Since 2011, it has been noted that Thais spend more per capita on education than Singaporean or Taiwanese nationals with paltry comparative results. Anyone who has ever experienced teaching in a Thai classroom can immediately start pointing to things that help explain this. Thai schools notoriously offer low salaries and are not inclined to invest in teaching talent. When a new foreign teacher comes on staff, there is sharp learning curve, as the foreign teacher must be disabused of any notions about how they might conduct themselves in a Thai classroom (farang teachers will remember the Thai Language and Culture course fiasco that has recenlty faded into memory). For one thing, the foreign teacher will be required to pass all students, regardless of performance on evaluations that are often established based purely on the arbitrary whims of Thai administrative and teaching staff. Also, teachers can expect major policy decisions regarding everything from textbooks to Sports Day (which seems like almost every day) to change, and then change again, and then change again, all in a period of two weeks in the middle of term 1. These are just two of most common major problems with teaching in Thailand.

The things listed above are all just symptoms of the much larger problems with education in Thailand. For someone to need education, the operating assumption is that that pupil is lacking in some knowledge capacity and therefore needs to experience instruction so as to correct for the gaps in knowledge. In Thailand, on a very basic level, people are very uncomfortable with accepting that there is anything lacking about anyone. To admit that you lack knowledge would be to lose face in Thailand. Therefore, education on a most basic level is incongruous with the dynamics of Thai culture. This is why no one is ever allowed to fail. To fail would constitute a grevious loss of face for most Thais. Therefore, it can be seen that Thailand's famous no-fail policy is simply a symptom of a much larger cultural predilection. Thai culture and quality education are essentially mutually exclusive. You cannot have one without the other. There is so much more to cover that it's harldy worth continuing. I will end this by saying that it is unsurprising that beyond the money, Phongthep and company are not interested in probing the differences between schools in Thailand and schools in Malaysia, Singapore or even Cambodia. Thailand is very, very, very proud of the fact that it hasn't been colonized (while all of its ASEAN neighbors have). This has manifested itself in a jingoistic worldview (Thais have few allies in their region and even around the globe [the big ones are the US and China, but I wouldn't consider either of those countries to be equal partners with Thailand]) that basically prevents Thai people from even considering that a non-Thai approach to something might have merits. Everything in Thailand must be done the Thai way, regardless of how wrongheaded or even long-ago-discredited that "way" might be. The other ASEAN countries have more significant exposure to foreign cultures on a deeper level than Thailand. This isn't to suggest that Thailand should have been colonized. It just means that the idea of "best practices" is completely alien and therefore wrong in the minds of most Thais. Ultimately, Thailand will probably have to experience stagnant wage growth and diminished GDP for a generation or more while its neighbors, like Malaysia, achieve upper-income status. This dynamic has already begun, which is why we keep reading articles about Thai education. On some level, they know there is a problem. However, changing things in the Kingdom will require an approach that will likely be regarded by most as "un-Thai". It will be very, VERY hard indeed for Thailand to reform its educational infrastructure.

Your (verbose!) post does sum up the problem IMHO.

As well as normal subject-basedmethods, Thais need to start learning more broadly. When they complete their education, they should theoretically be ready for adult life.

Thai education will ensure that students can recite 'facts', but the unknown is whether there is an understanding of 'why'. Mind you, the word WHY is so important in the classroom, but to a teacher is as offensive as an expletive.

My daughter obtained 100% in a 15 question Chemistry test, 6 weeks into the first term. However, I am ashamed to say that I found it difficult to share her pride at her achievement. I would much rather she had 80% and needed to find out why the 20% hadn't been achieved rather than this 'well that's ok, I know it'. She is there to learn. This test is a barrier, not a benefit.

(Well done loog. Your achievement stands, despite my thoughts!)

[Unkomoncents]

I'll wager that not a single government minister kids go to a Thai school.... Their kids will be educated at an expensive International school or schooled overseas in Singapore, Oz or the UK.

Not much wonder the govt. doesn't have a clue as to how bad the education system is, nor do they really care, not their problem...

But do they need to worry?

Want a degree? Sorted. Want a top, over-paid job? Sorted.

Overseas education would benefit those who genuinely want an effective education.

Is that a requirement in Thailand?

Is there any way of determining whether a Thai Graduate has a degree earned from hard work and ability, or whether it came off-the-shelf? Perhaps that's why a Thai degree isn't treated seriously in the real world.

I remember reading in the Bangkok Post that a survey of 7-11 employees in Bangkok showed well over half of them had earned Bachelor's Degrees from Thai universities.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Unkomoncents

[Unkomoncents]

"Despite a tremendous amount of money Thailand has put into its educational system" and officials have then taken out.

If the money in the way it was intended by people who knew what they were doing, Thailand would have an international standard education system.

If you just took a quick glance at the Thai education system you'd know that straight forward money and corruption is not the only problem.

The education offered is pretty archaic and there are many reasons for this - one undoubtedly is corruption in that graft and nepotism ensures that the whole education hierarchy is littered with people who simply aren't up to the job, largely because they didn't get their jobs through merit.

in fact their are quite a few good buildings etc but it is quite often the educational content that is lacking.

It is certainly true that the employment of western teachers in schools brings about change not only in EL but also in many other fields.

Dead on. They could bring in new books, a standardized curriculum, and a bevy of well-credentialed foreign teachers and it wouldn't make a dent in Thailand's education problems. For one thing, the MOE has allowed its authority to become so decentralized that when the Ministry announced that it would relax dress-code requirements in Thai schools, conservative heads of some of Bangkok's schools immediately announced that they wouldn't cooperate in the slightest with such changes. This is indicative of just how difficult any system-wide reforms would be to implement. The MOE would literally have to clean its ranks and hire a completely new administrative corps. Has anyone on this forum ever seen a Thai organization completely clean house?

This above question eases into view the much larger problem with education in Thailand. Thailand has very deep-seated attitudes and cultural predilections that the country is loathe to part with. These attitudes inform a view of the world and of education that, on the most fundamental of levels, is not conducive to effective, quality classroom experiences. The article mentions that Phongthep has noticed the gap in performance between Thai students and students from other ASEAN countries. Since 2011, it has been noted that Thais spend more per capita on education than Singaporean or Taiwanese nationals with paltry comparative results. Anyone who has ever experienced teaching in a Thai classroom can immediately start pointing to things that help explain this. Thai schools notoriously offer low salaries and are not inclined to invest in teaching talent. When a new foreign teacher comes on staff, there is sharp learning curve, as the foreign teacher must be disabused of any notions about how they might conduct themselves in a Thai classroom (farang teachers will remember the Thai Language and Culture course fiasco that has recenlty faded into memory). For one thing, the foreign teacher will be required to pass all students, regardless of performance on evaluations that are often established based purely on the arbitrary whims of Thai administrative and teaching staff. Also, teachers can expect major policy decisions regarding everything from textbooks to Sports Day (which seems like almost every day) to change, and then change again, and then change again, all in a period of two weeks in the middle of term 1. These are just two of most common major problems with teaching in Thailand.

The things listed above are all just symptoms of the much larger problems with education in Thailand. For someone to need education, the operating assumption is that that pupil is lacking in some knowledge capacity and therefore needs to experience instruction so as to correct for the gaps in knowledge. In Thailand, on a very basic level, people are very uncomfortable with accepting that there is anything lacking about anyone. To admit that you lack knowledge would be to lose face in Thailand. Therefore, education on a most basic level is incongruous with the dynamics of Thai culture. This is why no one is ever allowed to fail. To fail would constitute a grevious loss of face for most Thais. Therefore, it can be seen that Thailand's famous no-fail policy is simply a symptom of a much larger cultural predilection. Thai culture and quality education are essentially mutually exclusive. You cannot have one without the other. There is so much more to cover that it's harldy worth continuing. I will end this by saying that it is unsurprising that beyond the money, Phongthep and company are not interested in probing the differences between schools in Thailand and schools in Malaysia, Singapore or even Cambodia. Thailand is very, very, very proud of the fact that it hasn't been colonized (while all of its ASEAN neighbors have). This has manifested itself in a jingoistic worldview (Thais have few allies in their region and even around the globe [the big ones are the US and China, but I wouldn't consider either of those countries to be equal partners with Thailand]) that basically prevents Thai people from even considering that a non-Thai approach to something might have merits. Everything in Thailand must be done the Thai way, regardless of how wrongheaded or even long-ago-discredited that "way" might be. The other ASEAN countries have more significant exposure to foreign cultures on a deeper level than Thailand. This isn't to suggest that Thailand should have been colonized. It just means that the idea of "best practices" is completely alien and therefore wrong in the minds of most Thais. Ultimately, Thailand will probably have to experience stagnant wage growth and diminished GDP for a generation or more while its neighbors, like Malaysia, achieve upper-income status. This dynamic has already begun, which is why we keep reading articles about Thai education. On some level, they know there is a problem. However, changing things in the Kingdom will require an approach that will likely be regarded by most as "un-Thai". It will be very, VERY hard indeed for Thailand to reform its educational infrastructure.

Your (verbose!) post does sum up the problem IMHO.

As well as normal subject-basedmethods, Thais need to start learning more broadly. When they complete their education, they should theoretically be ready for adult life.

Thai education will ensure that students can recite 'facts', but the unknown is whether there is an understanding of 'why'. Mind you, the word WHY is so important in the classroom, but to a teacher is as offensive as an expletive.

My daughter obtained 100% in a 15 question Chemistry test, 6 weeks into the first term. However, I am ashamed to say that I found it difficult to share her pride at her achievement. I would much rather she had 80% and needed to find out why the 20% hadn't been achieved rather than this 'well that's ok, I know it'. She is there to learn. This test is a barrier, not a benefit.

(Well done loog. Your achievement stands, despite my thoughts!)

A book could be written about all that's wrong in the world of Thai education. I barely touched on the subject. Congratulations to your daughter and I know how you feel.

[Noistar]

I'll wager that not a single government minister kids go to a Thai school.... Their kids will be educated at an expensive International school or schooled overseas in Singapore, Oz or the UK.

Not much wonder the govt. doesn't have a clue as to how bad the education system is, nor do they really care, not their problem...

But do they need to worry?

Want a degree? Sorted. Want a top, over-paid job? Sorted.

Overseas education would benefit those who genuinely want an effective education.

Is that a requirement in Thailand?

Is there any way of determining whether a Thai Graduate has a degree earned from hard work and ability, or whether it came off-the-shelf? Perhaps that's why a Thai degree isn't treated seriously in the real world.

I remember reading in the Bangkok Post that a survey of 7-11 employees in Bangkok showed well over half of them had earned Bachelor's Degrees from Thai universities.

Which is why I'm interested to know how many people fail to join the lemming line.

If the norm is a degree, it must be logical that normal jobs will be filled by degree-holders. Probably explains why KFC staff show a greater English ability than the part-time University students on the checkouts at Big C.

[doremifasol]

To tackle the problem, the ministry has drawn up some measures to restructure the system.

blah, blah, blah...............blah, blah, blah...............blah, blah, blah...............blah, blah, blah...............

blah, blah, blah...............blah, blah, blah...............

[ABCer]

I wonder where are now all those PRO-THAI EDUCATION SYSTEM zelots, who were fighting tooth and nail (but mostly by foul mouth and insults) in a recent TV debate on this topic?

I know!... they are badmouthing Phongthep now...

Because no matter what the topic, some people need a vent for THEIR aggression, frustration, incompetence and lack of debating skills...

As if Phongthep or his predesessors or his successors can change anything...

As if Yingluck or her predessessors or successors can change anything...

As if a military Coup can change anything...

This country does not want change. This country does not need change. And thank God for this!.. I am sure we all manage somehow...

[ABCer]

Personally I think they should keep Education Minister Phongthep on.

He is the first to publicly admit that the system needs changing.

He said

"he says the ministry has drawn up some solutions to the problem such as changing students’ and teachers’ perspectives by urging them to think and analyze instead of memorizing known as “rote learning”.

Notice he said nothing about using a machine. Also said teachers learn how to think and analyze. Funny how this thread can turn into the same old same same when a new element is added.

My wife's daughter and family just moved here to Chiang Mai from Nonkong Si Tamarhet. Sorry about the spelling. At any rate her two grand daughters were here after school doing a little home work. Turns out the 9 year old is learning English to what degree of quality two days of learning does not allow me to comment on. She is also learning in school some of the Chinese alphabet. The wife said just a little bit.

The way the wheels of progress can turn ever so slow they still need a start and I do believe this public announcement by the Minister of Education is a start.

Dolly, I suspect he is following our debates here on Thai Education System!

Not that I would mind... better than CIA...

[Noistar]

Personally I think they should keep Education Minister Phongthep on.

He is the first to publicly admit that the system needs changing.

He said

"he says the ministry has drawn up some solutions to the problem such as changing students’ and teachers’ perspectives by urging them to think and analyze instead of memorizing known as “rote learning”.

Notice he said nothing about using a machine. Also said teachers learn how to think and analyze. Funny how this thread can turn into the same old same same when a new element is added.

My wife's daughter and family just moved here to Chiang Mai from Nonkong Si Tamarhet. Sorry about the spelling. At any rate her two grand daughters were here after school doing a little home work. Turns out the 9 year old is learning English to what degree of quality two days of learning does not allow me to comment on. She is also learning in school some of the Chinese alphabet. The wife said just a little bit.

The way the wheels of progress can turn ever so slow they still need a start and I do believe this public announcement by the Minister of Education is a start.

Dolly, I suspect he is following our debates here on Thai Education System!

Not that I would mind... better than CIA...

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean you're not being watched.

Hang on, did my iPad flicker?

[awayego]

I'd like to offer a few comments:

1. The Thai government is now insisting, as I understand it, that native English speaking teachers must have an education degree before they can get a work permit to work in government schools. I'm sure someone will correct me if I am mistaken!

2. My son is at a private Thai school where we were promised that there would be three native English speaking teachers this year and pupils would be getting a minimum three hours per week English teaching from these three non-Thai teachers. Result? Only one non-Thai 'native English speaking' teacher who has never set foot in my son's classroom - he gets one hour per week from a Thai teacher of 'Thanglish' who cannot converse with me in English. We will, by the way, be removing him from this school just as soon as we can find a 'better' alternative, if indeed such exists!

3. We know of several teachers in local government schools who spend a significant amount of school time outside of the classroom conducting insurance sales. A few have tried to sell to us.

4. Why is it that most, if not all, Thai school teachers send their own children to private schools, the fees for which, I understand, are paid for by the government. This must say something about the standards in government schools.

5. There also seems to be a common fallacy amongst Thai parents that if they pay for a private school they automatically get a better education, quite apart from the 'prestige' aspect of sending their child to a private school.

[benalibina]

.. days of rest, you gotta be kidding yourselves, because most kids will have to spend all their Sundays with their extended family visits, getting spolied and patted by their extended relatives all day long, no rest, and start on Monday at 5.30 am again...

The above is the reason than that at schoolholidays the kids like to sleep alot. Day and nighttime !

Thanks for explaining.

[rollrunna]

My son attend a privat school in Surin 1 class or patum 1 or what they call it, english program. The english book they are using is written by two thais, i guess well paid for their effort. It is just terrible. When i complain to the teachers they just say, yes its all about practise. But when a 7 year old have to learn words he dont understand, i understand why the thais dont speak english. And i pay 25000 bth a term for this kind of rubbish, im at a loss what to do. Move to Bangkok or Chiang Mai to get him into an international school or what.

The total cost of books for my son was about 2000 baht for the year. He is in grade 4. These are mostly books from Singapore which are fine. They basically follow the primary course from the UK, Singapore style. The science book is based on the Thai curriculum but written by foreigners. I've not found any conceptual or grammatical errors in any book so far. There's no need to use material poorly written by overpaid Thais who don't have fluent grasp of the language, and won't accept there are any errors in their work!

My kids are using the Singapore books also.

Still don't grasp why they teach science and maths in two languages and then English separately also. Surely it would be better to teach English as a stand alone subject and let maths and science stay in Thai?

Total duplication of the subject matter is a waste of time massively increases the requirement to find more and more native speakers to cover the science and maths subjects.

What are the Thai words for hypotenuse, algorithm, simultaneity, radian, anhydrous, fission, meniscus? English, the language of science and technology.

you left out Pomposity !

[Yooyung]

Some very good posts so far. I hear the frustration in many posts and feel the same way. I am currently teaching at a government selective school for kids that are apparently good at math and science. There are some really, really smart kids here that are a pleasure to teach. They have though, been let down, as have so many other Thai students throughout the last 20 to 30 years in the ruling elites insistence on putting off taking English seriously until the very last minute. ASEAN is going to show up Thailand for what it really is. the Thais NEED a good kick up the backside, a kick which they have avoided so far by being so insular.

The other day I played a game with my M4 students. In the game students had to take a position on whatever question I asked, and then explain why they took that standpoint. One questions I asked was "do you think Thailand is ready for ASEAN. Only one student out of 30 thought Thailand was ready. The overwhelming view was that their English language skills would let them down. I have to agree with them. The student that thought Thailand was ready thought that it would bring him more opportunities. Fair enough BUT that lad will really need to work on his English first.....

In my experience English has been looked on as a bit of a joke in Thailand for too long. I cant count the amount of times that I have tried to have a conversation in English with a Thai only to have the whole thing end up in a kind of jokey parody. Its as though the other Thais that are in on the conversation are jealous of others that can actually converse in English, this envy is converted in the Thai mind into making a joke of the situation. Its all very well but the joke is going to be on Thailand soon. I haven't really experienced this in other countries in the region.

I am in a sadistic way looking forward to ASEAN. I like living here, my wife is Thai and we have a son. My son spent 3 years with us in Aus and we are now back here. He is now well on the way to being fluent in English and Thai. I will let him ride the wave of Thailands incompetence. His English spoken English is better than the woman that works in our office....and she graduated from some Uni majoring in English! There is going to be a real demand for Thais that can really and I mean REALLY speak English, not some 'hello kitty' version of it. Its like fishing with dynamite, with so many people just too far behind the eight ball.

It would be lovely to think that things are really going to change soon, but we all no that it aint gonna happen. I will plod along however, I will try to do a good job for my students. Hell, the way Thailand is going I shouldn't be out of a job any time soon!

[Freedomfighter]

I have been imparting and 'volunteering' my English speaking skills and knowledge with many Thais. What I have found is that there are some who are serious about learning and improving their English language skills, and there are those who could care less.

However, as the article states, and we expats already know, the system, not just the Educational one, is broken from the top down. Culturally, socially, politically,morally......it's an endemic 'state of mind' that permeates everything in this society. Therefore, in my view, it will take more than Education to get this country on track and 'MATURE".

They need to start with the majority of the population, not just students. Good Luck