Trouble At Tops Supermarket

[wcr]

Just want to relay a story to you all about an incident that happened to me and my bf yesterday in Tops foodcourt.

We were eating our food, and finsished up. Paid the bill and got up to leave. Now at this stage I would like to add we were just 2 guys eating, we weren't all over each other, embrasing or anything as we don't behave like that away from the gay areas of Pattaya. As we got up and walked away the bf said to me did you see that man over there he was really looking hard at us. So I said, just ignor him. We walked right down the other end of the food hall and the bf say, he's still watching, so I looked back and he was. He had turned around in his seat and just completely focused on us. So, I just stopped looked back, then he gets up waving his hand at me, I continue to walk out of the hall and into the carpark. The bf says, hes chasing after us, why? He then reaches me and says, "You people make me sick, why is it when I look at you lot you have to always look back at me?" So I say, "just <deleted> off and get out of my way" He then starts to puff his chest out pushing up against me and says, "You like to wear a dress, you like to suck dick you people..." etc etc. So i just give him a shove backwards and told him to go away, he said he wanted to fight me, so I shoved him again shouting for him to <deleted> off. He did, shouting something in his native tounge.

My bf was shocked, and typical Thai, saying to him "You misunderstand us, you've got us wrong" I said to him, don't be so bloody polite, he is only reacting like this because he hates us, don't you understand that?

Now I do not look or act as some would expect a homosexual to act, in other words when people find out I am gay they are usually surprised. I am not frightend of people and spent many years as a police officer in London. But I can say the incident shook me also, as it is the first time anything like this has happened to me, and it happened just because I was a male farang eating with a Thai guy and this idiot jumps to conclusions (albeit correct ones ). But I was getting so angry, driving home and I couldn't get it out of my head all night. I now know how blacks in London feel when being shouted at or called names, because of thier colour.

[mrmnp]

There is a U.S. bit of folklore about how to spot a gay guy and that is that he stares back at you, ie. straight men look down when encountering the eyes of another man while gays continue to look you in the eye without looking down.

Your antagonist clearly had gay "issues" that he was having difficulty resolving and you were the unlucky recepient of that anger.

There is so much hate in the world, gays get it, muslims get it, blacks get it, on and on. Is there any perceptable group that doesn't get hate comments thrown at them, depending on where they are.

I have often made rude remarks at mindless Thai girls blocking escalators as they confer about which way to go, motorcyle drivers in general, etc. etc. Your story will help be to be more charitable to all in Thailand as most Thais are to me. Thankyou for your story.

[tuky]

shouting something in his native tounge.

wcr, what was his tongue? Did you pick up where he was from?

[wcr]

tukyleith,

I am not really sure, I think he was an arab? But I can't be 100% sure on that. He was also in his 50's I would say.

[cbatson]

I personally am left feeling that gay prejudice here in Thailand is much higher than in the U.S. (the only other place I could be qualified to compare to). Although I am strictly heterosexual, I do experience (more than the usual amount of) staring when I, say, go out for lunch or dinner with a male Thai friend as a group of two. Also, I have a small build and am quiet and polite, and friends of my girlfriend have suggested to her that I am gay, or at best bisexual, and that she should be careful about leaving me alone with a Thai male!

Sometimes the culture here is really difficult for me to understand. There doesn't seem to be the same intensity of dislike toward ladyboys, for example.

Prejudice in any form is not pleasant to experience. But it could happen anywhere.

Chuck

[Bobcat]

wcr - sorry to hear about your horrible experience. It would have shaken me also. On the bright side, I understand (not from personal experience, of course) that Arab men are notoriously well hung. Can that be on any possible comfort to you?

[ChrisP]

wcr..

Wow.. not at all what I've experienced in LOS with my Thai bf. Wherever we've been - BKK or Issan - there's never been any antagonism at all. Even when we hold hands....

MUCH better atmos than Los Angeles (where I live)...

We do tend to hold a gaze longer than str8 men, but even so, I think "he had unresolved gay "issues" is about right....

ChrisP

[Bluecat]

wcr..

Wow.. not at all what I've experienced in LOS with my Thai bf. Wherever we've been - BKK or Issan - there's never been any antagonism at all. Even when we hold hands....

MUCH better atmos than Los Angeles (where I live)...

We do tend to hold a gaze longer than str8 men, but even so, I think "he had unresolved gay "issues" is about right....

ChrisP

Next to where I live in BKK, there is quite a popular Thai restaurant among Thai people as well as farang people.

It is packed almost everyday with Thai couples and families as well as farang couples and families,...

The point of me mentionning it is that any given day, 10 to 20% of the customers are same sex couples, mainly farang-Thai. I go there quite often and I have so far never seen any people, being the farang or the Thai looking at those couples in any particular way, let alone making the kind of remarks you were subject to,...

wcr, you probably had a very unlucky encounter with a very frustrated guy,...

[mrmnp]

Cbatson: What you may judge as prejudice towards Gays in Thailand, may just be curiosity about farang in general and Thai's with farang in the specific.

There are very few places in Thailand that I have gone that I don't get curious glances or stares. I am tall, gray haired and distinguished looking and don't have an effeminate bone in my body. My Thai companion is short, young looking and athletic of build. Thais are curious, when they see us together about :

(1) is there a "relationship" there

(2) what does the Thai have that interts the Farang

(3) what an odd looking couple (mutt and jeff)

etc. ad naseum

When I am alone, I get a lot of stares of curiosity as well. I "check out" other farang as well.

In the U.S., mens locker rooms certainly are places where "checking out" occurs a lot, and it is curiosity, not sexual.

Most people tell me that I am oblivious to people who stare at me as I am purposeful in my meaderings, I am there to accomplish what I came for, not to "cruise" people. I am very poor at determing a curious stare from a "cruise".

Can you tell when people are just being friendly from when they are "comming on" to you. I can't.

Many Thais, younger especially, spend the day at the "mall", have time to be curious about farang, and may simply be "people wathing". While purposeful while walking and noticeing Thais, when I sit for coffee at an open cafe or the like, I people watch with great enjoyment, commenting to my companion regarding many passerbys. In Japan, this was a problem, as there it is extemely rude to stare at people as I suppose it is in most places.

[Suzy]

Don't take offence - the guy was obviously an ignorant ###### Arab. Most of them are all the same - and yes, I hear there're well-hung. Who wouldn't be playing with themselves all the time? It's only because no-one else will.

[davethailand]

I'M NOT GAY, BUT ONE THING I'VE LEARNED WHILE I'VE LIVED IN PATTAYA IS TO LIVE AND LET LIVE,

OK I DON'T LIKE SEEING GAY'S (MALE OR FEMALE) KISSING ETC ESPECIALLY IN AREA'S WHERE KIDS OR FAMILIES MIGHT BE THATS WHY PATTAYA HAS AREAS FOR GAY PEOPLE.

I HAVE GAY CUSTOMERS IN MY BAR, I ALSO HAVE GAY FRIENDS (THAI AND FARANG) IN FACT MY ONE OF MY FAVORITE RESTAURANTS IS GAY RUN. SO WHAT!

THIS GUY IN TOPS IS A F***ING IGNORANT W****R AND I WOULD HAVE SAID SOMETHING TO HIM IF I'D WITNESSED THAT.

HE MUST HAVE SOME ISSUES FOR EVEN GETTING UP AND STARTING ON YOU. WCR

[meadish_sweetball]

That's nice Suzy, totally blatant racism/hatred - essentially the same type of prejudice that the first poster had a problem with. ###### is fine, ignorant is fine, but adding Arab and "they are all the same" to it.. Can you even hear yourself?

[davethailand]

That's nice Suzy, totally blatant racism/hatred - essentially the same type of prejudice that the first poster had a problem with. ###### is fine, ignorant is fine, but adding Arab and "they are all the same" to it.. Can you even hear yourself?

MOST OF THEM ARE IGNORANT <deleted>

[mrmnp]

Davethailand: Would you be so kind as to explain why two men kissing bothers you? I would like to understand.

Is it because you think they are Gay and you don't like Gays kissing in front of children? Or do you just not like men kissing men regardless of their sexual orientation? Why?

Russian coaches kiss their gymnasts full on the mouth upon completion of a successful exercise, on T.V, on international feeds and in front of kids. Does that bother you? Do you think they are all Gay? Is it OK if the straight ones kiss and the Gay ones don't.? I am in earnest in trying to find out your thinking on this.

[davethailand]

I THINK YOU'VE TAKEN THIS THE WRONG WAY, A BIT TO SENSATIVE

WHEN I SAYING KISSING ETC I MEAN :-

I'VE GOT NO PROBLEM WITH GAY'S KISSING MALE 0R FEMALE, BUT I THINK TPEOPLE SHOULD SHOW SOME RESPECT IN PUBLIC AREAS WHERE THERE ARE FAMILIES AND CHILDREN.

I KNOW THIS IS PATTAYA BUT IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU CAN DO ANYTHING ANYWHERE, I DON'T THINK IT'S NICE SEEING MEN AND WOMEN GROPING EACHOTHER IN PUBLIC.

CALL ME OLD FASHIONED I DON'T CARE

IN MY BAR ONCE I WATCHED ALOT OF PEOPLE GET VERY OFFENDED WHEN A GUY IN HIS FIFTIES SAT THERE PASSIONATLY KISSING HIS BOYFRIEND WHO WAS ABOUT 20 YEARS OLD AND IN THE END WE ASKED HIM NICELY TO STOP, WHICH HE WAS FINE ABOUT.

THAT IS'NT ACCEPTABLE IN AN ESTABLISHMENT WHERE FAMILIES COME TO.

ON BEFORE YOU JUMP AT MY COMMENTS

I ALSO DON'T AGREE WITH LESBIAN COUPLES OR MEN & WOMEN DOING THE SAME IN MY BAR.

[mrmnp]

Davethailand: I am sorry you feel I jumped on your post. That was not my intention.

If I interpret your correctly, you are against public displays of affection between any two people, is that correct?

I personally don't believe in public displays of affection that go any further than hand holding or a peck on the cheek upon greeting or saying goodbye. Is this your posistion, or are you against even this level of public display?

[davethailand]

NO I AGREE WITH YOU

BUT THERE IS NO NEED FOR A COUPLE OF ANY SEX TO GO BEYOND THAT.

THATS WHY WE HAVE HOMES ETC

I DON'T WANT PEOPLE SEEING WHAT I GET UP TO WITH MY WIFE.

I"VE SAT IN BARS WATCHING GUYS WITH BARGIRLS ETC, I,VE EVEN SEEN THEM GO FURTHER (USE YOUR IMMAGINATION) I FIND IT OFFENSIVE, AND DEGRADING FOR THE GIRL

AS SAID I'VE MANY GAY FRIENDS AND ME AND MY WIFE ALSO HAVE LADYMEN FRIENDS, ONE FRIENDS THAI LOVER INSISTS ON KISSING ME EVERY TIME I SEE HIM, I DON'T MIND MY WIFE FINDS IT FUNNY

[wcr]

I think gay guys when in Pattaya fall into a state of disbelief about the freedom they encounter here. When I first came to Pattaya it was like Disneyland to me. Back in the UK I lived a life of lies. To come here and to go into a bar and pick up a good looking guy who was half my age was brilliant. And then to be able to walk in the supermarket or down walking street holding hands was very liberating for me.

However, I now live here and work here. I have changed. I do not hold my bf's hand while going down W.S. I certainly would not do a full on snog while in a non gay area and I believe that is asking for trouble. I do think that this is wrong, because if anyone wants to do that, then staright or gay they should be able to without fearing the consequences. Unfortunately we live in a world where we (gays) can only do this safely in our own areas. I am going to start a new thread I 've decided as a thought has just come to me .

So what I am trying to say is, gay guys behaving like this are just forgeting where they are and I am sure have no intention of offending. I find it nice to be here, to get invited to parties by straight friends, to be the only gay couple there and to be totally accepted by them. I also feel comfortable showing my feelings for my bf in this enviroment, touching his leg, holding his hand etc. In the UK this would not happen, certainly within my circle of friends. And its nice to read comments by people like davethailand on how he accepts us and I wonder if his attidude to us has changed since he has been here?

[davethailand]

MY ATTITUDE NOW IS BECAUSE I LIVE HERE, I ADMIT WHILST IN LONDON MY ATTITUDE TOWARDS ALOT OF THINGS WAS PROBABLY VERY NARROW MINDED

I,VE JUST READ YOUR OTHER THREAD AND ALTHOUGH I HAVE'NT BEEN IN BOYZ TOWN BEFORE I AGREE THAT PEOPLE COMING TO TAKE THE PISS IS UNFAIR, I KNOW GAY GUY'S THAT I CERTAINLY WOULD'NT WANT TO UPSET,

KNOWING THAT YOU LIVE IN PATTAYA I'D PUT MONEY THAT YOU'VE BEEN IN MY BAR BEFORE.

JUST FOR THE RECORD GUYS WITH GUYS, GIRLS WITH GIRLS EVERYONE IS WELCOME

[Suzy]

Dear Sweetball

Have you ever worked in Saudi or experienced first hand the Arabs? I even wonder if you are gay and understand the phobia we suffer from foreigners in our own countries as well as in Thailand.

What is it with you that has ruffled your feathers so much. Are you a frustrated hetro, a fag hag or just prefer to hide behind a comic pseudonym as a voyeur??

[meadish_sweetball]

Suzy,

Nope, I'm not gay. Nope, I have not lived in Saudia Arabia. Have you?

I have travelled in Arab countries though, Egypt for example. I grew up with friends from Arab countries, immigrated to Sweden. But I think these facts are all beside the point from what I wanted to say to you.

Yes, I understand the phobia and prejudice gays suffer to a certain extent, but not fully, of course - I have not walked in your shoes.

BUT I have been assaulted by people for other reasons - hairstyle, wearing clothes which differ from some person's norm of how people should dress, being a bookworm, etc.

Gays are one persecuted group of many.

Jews, women, Africans, Native Americans, Arabs, indigenous peoples of Thailand or any other identifiable minority are others groups who are not fully accepted as equal by the majority in different situations.

I am sure you understand what my point is - being persecuted is hardly an excuse for persecuting others.

There are gay Arabs and there are Arabs who are tolerant against gays. "Ignorance" and "arseholeness" or however you'd make a noun out of that, are not specifically Arab traits. Also, we are not even sure that the guy was an Arab, which is another reason why I think your comment was too hasty.

[Deadcert]

Dave,

I agree people eating each others face in public is a bit off putting whether gay or straight, save it for home. I have no problem with less intimate shows of public affection.

With reference to the man in tops I would have at first tried to reason with him and ask what he assumed was going on. If that didn't work I would have walked off laughing as ignorant people hate to be laughed at.

I had a friend who was a gay basher before he met me, turned out he had issues himself and justed needed a gentle nudge in the right direction.

[Deadcert]

SWEETBALL,

Its like everything some people where their gayness like a badge but are intolerant to others. On the one hand Muslims in general do show a high level of intolerance towards gays as they seem to think that Islam demands it of them, but I agree it wrong to put everyone in the same boat.

The man in question was an ignorant bigot no more no less ...

[wowpow]

Just put it down to another Muslim charm offensive and thank goodness that there are great places like Thailand where such things happen very rarely.

Like,our diplomat, davethailand I am conditioned to find overt public displays offensive. it very much depends on how much and where. In a family type bar it should be minimal but in a go-go bar then more can be acceptible. Sometimes it is nice to hold hands but I don't like it when it's done with a "look at us gays we don't care what you think" attitude.I do find the Thai same sex affection endearing - the motorbike taxi boys lying around ontop of each other or arms around the shoulder or holding hands and it seems non-sexual.

Thais seem often to ignore over affection and I am often surprised at Thais with young children choosing areas of Jomtien gay beach where quite a lot male to male molesting occurs - it certainly does in my deckchair. I am amused that Pattaya schoolchildren are taken to Alkazar shows as part of their education.

For me one of the major joys of Thailand is the sexual freedom and one can flirt with practically any man and he will smile and maybe giggle even if he is not interested. What a great place.http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/style_images/1/icon4.gif

[thaimee]

ignorant joe eliciting information from this forum.

hi 'equal peoples' in pattaya city. sorry to hear of your confrontation in tops supermarket. let's hope this doesn't happen all to often. being an inquisitive person who has been mistakenly labeled, i've found myself viewing the forum today. looks a respectful section and i can say things are not out of hand or overly lustful.

i'm average joe, i would like to pick up on a thing that's bugged me since being in the kingdom. i've noticed an over crowding of young thai men in the toilets of MBK Bangkok. most places in in the kingdom i guess. being tall, perhaps thai men would stare far too much. taking into account what a guy said earlier about eye contact i feel more clued about protocol now. so i've learned today what not to do.

however am i at fault for feeling uncomforatble in such a situation as mentioned? or should i just take the situation for what it is? this would mean a small minority of young thai men are confused and can't understand protocol or is it deeper than this issue? is it me but young thai mean are seriously horny, most peculiar! chow.

Thaimee.

[Basher]

He probably fancied you himself, hasn't come to terms with his own Homosexuality and has to express it in a violent way.

Next time give him your phone number

Bash

[dr_Pat_Pong]

MY ATTITUDE NOW IS BECAUSE I LIVE HERE, I ADMIT WHILST IN LONDON MY ATTITUDE TOWARDS ALOT OF THINGS WAS PROBABLY VERY NARROW MINDED

I,VE JUST READ YOUR OTHER THREAD AND ALTHOUGH I HAVE'NT BEEN IN BOYZ TOWN BEFORE I AGREE THAT PEOPLE COMING TO TAKE THE PISS IS UNFAIR, I KNOW GAY GUY'S THAT I CERTAINLY WOULD'NT WANT TO UPSET,

KNOWING THAT YOU LIVE IN PATTAYA I'D PUT MONEY THAT YOU'VE BEEN IN MY BAR BEFORE.

JUST FOR THE RECORD GUYS WITH GUYS, GIRLS WITH GIRLS EVERYONE IS WELCOME

Drop the freaking caps PLEASE. Get a book on net etiquette.

[Goat Roper]

Just want to relay a story to you all about an incident that happened to me and my bf yesterday in Tops foodcourt.

We were eating our food, and finsished up. Paid the bill and got up to leave. Now at this stage I would like to add we were just 2 guys eating, we weren't all over each other, embrasing or anything as we don't behave like that away from the gay areas of Pattaya. As we got up and walked away the bf said to me did you see that man over there he was really looking hard at us. So I said, just ignor him. We walked right down the other end of the food hall and the bf say, he's still watching, so I looked back and he was. He had turned around in his seat and just completely focused on us. So, I just stopped looked back, then he gets up waving his hand at me, I continue to walk out of the hall and into the carpark. The bf says, hes chasing after us, why? He then reaches me and says, "You people make me sick, why is it when I look at you lot you have to always look back at me?" So I say, "just <deleted> off and get out of my way" He then starts to puff his chest out pushing up against me and says, "You like to wear a dress, you like to suck dick you people..." etc etc. So i just give him a shove backwards and told him to go away, he said he wanted to fight me, so I shoved him again shouting for him to <deleted> off. He did, shouting something in his native tounge.

My bf was shocked, and typical Thai, saying to him "You misunderstand us, you've got us wrong" I said to him, don't be so bloody polite, he is only reacting like this because he hates us, don't you understand that?

Now I do not look or act as some would expect a homosexual to act, in other words when people find out I am gay they are usually surprised. I am not frightend of people and spent many years as a police officer in London. But I can say the incident shook me also, as it is the first time anything like this has happened to me, and it happened just because I was a male farang eating with a Thai guy and this idiot jumps to conclusions (albeit correct ones ). But I was getting so angry, driving home and I couldn't get it out of my head all night. I now know how blacks in London feel when being shouted at or called names, because of thier colour.

Maybe ask him if he is Thai and if you can determine he is not holding Thai citizenship and from another country, ###### just take the guy on, there were two of you, correct?, BUT, if he is a Thai then walk away.

[davethailand]

MY ATTITUDE NOW IS BECAUSE I LIVE HERE, I ADMIT WHILST IN LONDON MY ATTITUDE TOWARDS ALOT OF THINGS WAS PROBABLY VERY NARROW MINDED

I,VE JUST READ YOUR OTHER THREAD AND ALTHOUGH I HAVE'NT BEEN IN BOYZ TOWN BEFORE I AGREE THAT PEOPLE COMING TO TAKE THE PISS IS UNFAIR, I KNOW GAY GUY'S THAT I CERTAINLY WOULD'NT WANT TO UPSET,

KNOWING THAT YOU LIVE IN PATTAYA I'D PUT MONEY THAT YOU'VE BEEN IN MY BAR BEFORE.

JUST FOR THE RECORD GUYS WITH GUYS, GIRLS WITH  GIRLS EVERYONE IS WELCOME

Drop the freaking caps PLEASE. Get a book on net etiquette.

sorry doc, that was when i was a new fish back in febuary.

i've now learnt what the caps button is for.

[jdinasia]

I THINK YOU'VE TAKEN THIS THE WRONG WAY, A BIT TO SEI'VE GOT NO PROBLEM WITH  GAY'S KISSING MALE 0R FEMALE, BUT I THINK TPEOPLE SHOULD SHOW SOME RESPECT IN PUBLIC AREAS WHERE THERE ARE FAMILIES AND CHILDREN.

hmmm I think if you mean making out then I could agree with you if applied to all people regardless of gender. However if you mean a kiss I think you are more than just a little bit predjudiced. I tend to hold my BF's hand in a taxi and not in public (unless at DJ Station or Freeman Arena or Soi4 etc) but I tend to try and act Thai because as a farang living in Thailand I will never ever get it right! Kids and families need to see gay people as normal adults and a casual kiss between people in love is always a good thing