Election And Expat Community

[sting01]

I think I must be a bit retarded (read moron), or have some problems to understand the world, because I do not get point to the farang community pushing so hard to kick the Prime.

First of all, we (I am also an expat) are not allowed to participate, it's internal to thailand. That is the same in my country, so I accept it. Also, how can I know best than a thai citisen what is the best for her/him? Because she/he is less educated than I? Well, this person certainly did not get a Phd of anything in a US univerisity because he was a good footbal player, nor bought his PhD in Kao San Road. So somewhere I feel it's a bit insulting for thai people (the average one I mean) to claim he/she is un educated because a roten educational system, and it imply we have to teach him how to vote. Anyway, who are the teachers in thailand? Mostly farangs it is not?

Second, in what the Prime during the last 4 years hurted the expat community? Did he? Sure he did, the bar fees in Nana have raised and your favorite beer is priced now at 90 bht ... As I do not go in Nana nor drink beer, what the ###### I care, and what the hel_l I am concerned or hurt? What else? Yes, he stopped the very lucrative business (for both farang and local mafia) of the fake visa stamp. Should I say 'bona fide tourist' to repeat Dr PatPong moto, where certinly not hurt, maybe they felt more secure, and also I must say there is less Kao San peoples pretending to be everything as long as that everything could provide them with some money (let say the english teachers who left schools at 15 y old was so common 3 years ago, and you know it well). Another exemple on how Tax Sin hurted the farang community? Well he made your favorite brothel close erlier, I know it's bad, because now you not only have to f*** the prosti, but as you come back home early, you have also to do your home work ... And morning it's hard to go to work , oooooooooooops it's hard to go to your office and complain thai people are lazy.

Did the PM limitate our freedom of speech? I do not think so. Is it any exemple of a legitime expat living and working here who was arrested and send back home on the false ground, or for racist purpose?

Last, but not the least, I do NOT understand how people who scream as barking dogs because thail law allow them to have only 49% of their own companies, and on the same time their supporting the same law to be used more harshly against another private company (for those you forgot already, the big fuss made by thai people was HE SOLD THAILAND). So right now it seems a big part of the farang comunity is advocating against private capital. So it raise one question immediatly: why be here in a capitalist country and not in Laos that is a communist country and where you will never see that happend.

As foreigner I feel bad, to see fellow expats taking side ILLEGALY with the risk not only to be arrested , black liste and deported (their personnal life not mine so must I precise how much I care), but also to make the whole community in problem. We mostly have all rights here, thai people bother us less, far less than LAPD bother the latino for exemple, so why trying to make things worst on subject where the most part are obviously clueless on the subject or on what going on. People advocating here for the PAD saying their are for the morality or the freedom are clueless, at least clueless on readin thai bilboard. If not they have read as I did, the protesters were complaining against the selling of a private business to a foreign company. In my country that is called xenophobia, or racism if directed against a specific ehtny or nationality (singaporean for exemple).

So , for the general safety of the community, I really would like to see people less sharp. Because when a wolf is just hurt but not kill, he mostly turn crazy, if you get my point. It's also for respect for this country that not mine, not yours, but the country of thai people. So what is good for us in our countries (And we do not have the political system so it by definition mean several system can exist) is not neccessary the best for Thailand.

LAst point, I know some will certainly say i am myself clueless and know nothing about thailand, than I do no know how marvellous thai people suffered under Tax Sin, and other rubbish. After some years living here I learned a bit, the marvellous thai people in the mob are not the same as the marvellous thai people living upcountry, and democracy is basically one man one vote, and the result are (alas) on how many people moved their ass to go to the poll station and expressed an opinion. (I just read post where people pretend even if TRT have the majority of the vote, that will no be, it mean nothing ... what is democracy in that case).

[The Dan Sai Kid]

I think I must be a bit retarded (read moron), or have some problems to understand the world, because I do not get point to the farang community pushing so hard to kick the Prime.

First of all, we (I am also an expat) are not allowed to participate, it's internal to thailand. That is the same in my country, so I accept it. Also, how can I know best than a thai citisen what is the best for her/him? Because she/he is less educated than I? Well, this person certainly did not get a Phd of anything in a US univerisity because he was a good footbal player, nor bought his PhD in Kao San Road. So somewhere I feel it's a bit insulting for thai people (the average one I mean) to claim he/she is un educated because a roten educational system, and it imply we have to teach him how to vote. Anyway, who are the teachers in thailand? Mostly farangs it is not?

Second, in what the Prime during the last 4 years hurted the expat community? Did he? Sure he did, the bar fees in Nana have raised and your favorite beer is priced now at 90 bht ... As I do not go in Nana nor drink beer, what the ###### I care, and what the hel_l I am concerned or hurt? What else? Yes, he stopped the very lucrative business (for both farang and local mafia) of the fake visa stamp. Should I say 'bona fide tourist' to repeat Dr PatPong moto, where certinly not hurt, maybe they felt more secure, and also I must say there is less Kao San peoples pretending to be everything as long as that everything could provide them with some money (let say the english teachers who left schools at 15 y old was so common 3 years ago, and you know it well). Another exemple on how Tax Sin hurted the farang community? Well he made your favorite brothel close erlier, I know it's bad, because now you not only have to f*** the prosti, but as you come back home early, you have also to do your home work ... And morning it's hard to go to work , oooooooooooops it's hard to go to your office and complain thai people are lazy.

Did the PM limitate our freedom of speech? I do not think so. Is it any exemple of a legitime expat living and working here who was arrested and send back home on the false ground, or for racist purpose?

Last, but not the least, I do NOT understand how people who scream as barking dogs because thail law allow them to have only 49% of their own companies, and on the same time their supporting the same law to be used more harshly against another private company (for those you forgot already, the big fuss made by thai people was HE SOLD THAILAND). So right now it seems a big part of the farang comunity is advocating against private capital. So it raise one question immediatly: why be here in a capitalist country and not in Laos that is a communist country and where you will never see that happend.

As foreigner I feel bad, to see fellow expats taking side ILLEGALY with the risk not only to be arrested , black liste and deported (their personnal life not mine so must I precise how much I care), but also to make the whole community in problem. We mostly have all rights here, thai people bother us less, far less than LAPD bother the latino for exemple, so why trying to make things worst on subject where the most part are obviously clueless on the subject or on what going on. People advocating here for the PAD saying their are for the morality or the freedom are clueless, at least clueless on readin thai bilboard. If not they have read as I did, the protesters were complaining against the selling of a private business to a foreign company. In my country that is called xenophobia, or racism if directed against a specific ehtny or nationality (singaporean for exemple).

So , for the general safety of the community, I really would like to see people less sharp. Because when a wolf is just hurt but not kill, he mostly turn crazy, if you get my point. It's also for respect for this country that not mine, not yours, but the country of thai people. So what is good for us in our countries (And we do not have the political system so it by definition mean several system can exist) is not neccessary the best for Thailand.

LAst point, I know some will certainly say i am myself clueless and know nothing about thailand, than I do no know how marvellous thai people suffered under Tax Sin, and other rubbish. After some years living here I learned a bit, the marvellous thai people in the mob are not the same as the marvellous thai people living upcountry, and democracy is basically one man one vote, and the result are (alas) on how many people moved their ass to go to the poll station and expressed an opinion. (I just read post where people pretend even if TRT have the majority of the vote, that will no be, it mean nothing ... what is democracy in that case).

Out of interest, where are you from?

[TokyoT]

Some of us have family here in Thailand, and therefore have an active interest in how things develop on the political front. I have a Thai wife, and daughter, and therefore I certainly have a stake in how things turn out.

I would actually agree that having Thaksin stay in power is better for the farang community, and better for foreign business interests in Thailand - but does that mean this is what is best for Thailand? As I have stated earlier I also have a Thai wife and daughter and therefore have interests other than those related to business.

Edited April 3, 2006 by TokyoT

[sting01]

I am arrogant mostly, so there is huge probability I am french.

[h90]

I think I must be a bit retarded (read moron), or have some problems to understand the world, because I do not get point to the farang community pushing so hard to kick the Prime.

First of all, we (I am also an expat) are not allowed to participate, it's internal to thailand. That is the same in my country, so I accept it. Also, how can I know best than a thai citisen what is the best for her/him? Because she/he is less educated than I? Well, this person certainly did not get a Phd of anything in a US univerisity because he was a good footbal player, nor bought his PhD in Kao San Road. So somewhere I feel it's a bit insulting for thai people (the average one I mean) to claim he/she is un educated because a roten educational system, and it imply we have to teach him how to vote. Anyway, who are the teachers in thailand? Mostly farangs it is not?

Second, in what the Prime during the last 4 years hurted the expat community? Did he? Sure he did, the bar fees in Nana have raised and your favorite beer is priced now at 90 bht ... As I do not go in Nana nor drink beer, what the ###### I care, and what the hel_l I am concerned or hurt? What else? Yes, he stopped the very lucrative business (for both farang and local mafia) of the fake visa stamp. Should I say 'bona fide tourist' to repeat Dr PatPong moto, where certinly not hurt, maybe they felt more secure, and also I must say there is less Kao San peoples pretending to be everything as long as that everything could provide them with some money (let say the english teachers who left schools at 15 y old was so common 3 years ago, and you know it well). Another exemple on how Tax Sin hurted the farang community? Well he made your favorite brothel close erlier, I know it's bad, because now you not only have to f*** the prosti, but as you come back home early, you have also to do your home work ... And morning it's hard to go to work , oooooooooooops it's hard to go to your office and complain thai people are lazy.

Did the PM limitate our freedom of speech? I do not think so. Is it any exemple of a legitime expat living and working here who was arrested and send back home on the false ground, or for racist purpose?

Last, but not the least, I do NOT understand how people who scream as barking dogs because thail law allow them to have only 49% of their own companies, and on the same time their supporting the same law to be used more harshly against another private company (for those you forgot already, the big fuss made by thai people was HE SOLD THAILAND). So right now it seems a big part of the farang comunity is advocating against private capital. So it raise one question immediatly: why be here in a capitalist country and not in Laos that is a communist country and where you will never see that happend.

As foreigner I feel bad, to see fellow expats taking side ILLEGALY with the risk not only to be arrested , black liste and deported (their personnal life not mine so must I precise how much I care), but also to make the whole community in problem. We mostly have all rights here, thai people bother us less, far less than LAPD bother the latino for exemple, so why trying to make things worst on subject where the most part are obviously clueless on the subject or on what going on. People advocating here for the PAD saying their are for the morality or the freedom are clueless, at least clueless on readin thai bilboard. If not they have read as I did, the protesters were complaining against the selling of a private business to a foreign company. In my country that is called xenophobia, or racism if directed against a specific ehtny or nationality (singaporean for exemple).

So , for the general safety of the community, I really would like to see people less sharp. Because when a wolf is just hurt but not kill, he mostly turn crazy, if you get my point. It's also for respect for this country that not mine, not yours, but the country of thai people. So what is good for us in our countries (And we do not have the political system so it by definition mean several system can exist) is not neccessary the best for Thailand.

LAst point, I know some will certainly say i am myself clueless and know nothing about thailand, than I do no know how marvellous thai people suffered under Tax Sin, and other rubbish. After some years living here I learned a bit, the marvellous thai people in the mob are not the same as the marvellous thai people living upcountry, and democracy is basically one man one vote, and the result are (alas) on how many people moved their ass to go to the poll station and expressed an opinion. (I just read post where people pretend even if TRT have the majority of the vote, that will no be, it mean nothing ... what is democracy in that case).

Out of interest, where are you from?

I think moon or mars, but not from this world

[ProfessorFart]

You say yourself you are ingnorant of what is going on.

Your post shows that utterly.

Many of us work and live here and to us although we have no democratic rights in this country are still affected by what happens here.

If you think the limit of the average expat's interest in Thailand is the rising price of beer in Nana Plaza, may I suggest that you actually try meeting a few of them. Who knows? Through them you learn a little more about the place you live in instead of making pointless and nonsensical posts on an internet forum.

[Axel]

Doing some business in Thailand, as well as many other countries in Asia, I certainly want to know, who is the policy maker there, what are his policies a.s.o.

I wold be doing a dis-service to advice my partners to invest their money in Thailand, without checking out these things. These guys do not care that much if the "LAPD bother the latino for exemple", most of them would not even know who or what the LAPD is. But they know who Thaksin is, who might be successor and if Thailand is still safe for investment or not.

I do not vote in thailand, nor do I vote anywhere else, but for sure it is my job to watch and evaluate.

[sting01]

You say yourself you are ingnorant of what is going on.

Your post shows that utterly.

Many of us work and live here and to us although we have no democratic rights in this country are still affected by what happens here.

If you think the limit of the average expat's interest in Thailand is the rising price of beer in Nana Plaza, may I suggest that you actually try meeting a few of them. Who knows? Through them you learn a little more about the place you live in instead of making pointless and nonsensical posts on an internet forum.

Fact: the biloard in the various manifestation are directly attacking a foreign country and his citizens. Worst, some well know leaders of the manistestations are calling to economically attack that country. So I ask wich one after?

Fact: In each and every country you must have a man in charge, T. Blair or MacMillan or the beloved M. Tatcher. so if the Prime go, who will be in charge? The actual trend in this forum is to consider the election are biased (check the post in the Thai news forum). It imply de facto those posters (who were the most attive the last 24 hours) will also refuse any other TRT Prime, stating he will be Taksin puppet (that is not a fact, but will be one soon).

Fact: there is farangs participating to the manisfestations. Is it legal? Is it dangerous? If the mess happend, maybe to avoid to have to design the real people who created the mess, it will be the farangs who will be called as guilty to have push thai against thai. It was a fact not long ago.

Where can I meet other farangs living here? After the mass sunday afternoon? Or in blue wave after 6 PM?

Fact: Do I know best what is good for an US citisen than himself? Even if I dislike GWB, I have to reconise only US people can choose (or not choose) him as President. Why it must be different in LOS?

What the people on the street were complaining about, and who where those people? What about the waitress in a restaurant in Lop Buri, Non Kwai, or Nong Muang? And what if there is more people upcountry than in Bkk area?

LAst point : Is it any thai organisation, political party or even individual who called for political advisor born abroad? So why so many people are inside? that is not our country, so if we are unhappy we just have to leave. Or ... well ... how to say .... we have to live by the local rules

[Boon Mee]

Sadly, the OP represents a portion of the farang community that is too-well represented.

As Axel and Fart said, it is our duty to understand the political dynamics of the country we call our adopted home w/out actually interfering in their process.

To spend one's life in the farang ghettos of Thailand and never make an atempt to learn the culture, language etc. is the sad lot of too many here...

[ProfessorFart]

I'll make 3 assumptions here.

1) You're not a troll as I doubt even the hardest troll would type posts as long as yours.

2) You are new to Thailand

3) You have yet to see even little of what Thailand has to offer.

Therefore I feel you deserve a reasoned reply. I will start with your last point first.

LAst point : Is it any thai organisation, political party or even individual who called for political advisor born abroad? So why so many people are inside? that is not our country, so if we are unhappy we just have to leave. Or ... well ... how to say .... we have to live by the local rules

Bear in mind that many, if not all of the people involved in Thai politics at a high level have a degree of overseas education. More otten than not to a very high level. To assume that this form of politics is unique to Thailand and therfore no foreginer should be allowed to comment is plain dumb.

It is the Thai people who have arranged these demonstrations and forced the PM's hand. Not a buch of beery expats sat discussing bar room politics in Nana Plaza.

Why not just leave? If we fled every country where local politics were not to our liking, most of us would probably spend a long time running.

Fact: In each and every country you must have a man in charge, T. Blair or MacMillan or the beloved M. Tatcher. so if the Prime go, who will be in charge? The actual trend in this forum is to consider the election are biased (check the post in the Thai news forum). It imply de facto those posters (who were the most attive the last 24 hours) will also refuse any other TRT Prime, stating he will be Taksin puppet (that is not a fact, but will be one soon).

The great shame of politics is that you end up having someone in power. Such is the way of the world. Not only will the anti Thaksin posters on this forum not accept any Thaksin puppet but more importantly neither will the Thai Democracy protesters.

Now I will ask you a couple of questions.

Do you think that all expats here should just sit around like grining dogs and have no opinion on Thai affairs?

Do you think that expats in France, the US, England or wherever have an opinion on the internal affairs of their host nations?

Everyman is entilted to his opinion. It just pays to be careful to whom he voices it.

Get out and about Sting. Listen to what is being said and learn the way things are here.

You've made a good start by posting your questions, no matter how banal, here. I'm sure that with a less aggressive tone you'll soon learn plenty and meet loads of expats.

Edited April 3, 2006 by ProfessorFart

[Doza]

Fact: Do I know best what is good for an US citisen than himself? Even if I dislike GWB, I have to reconise only US people can choose (or not choose) him as President.

But you have an opinion on him don't you? And if you lived in the US you might express that every now and then - especially if it affected you in terms of visa, tax, business climate etc??? Yes, of course you would, just as farangs like to express an opinion on politics here in Thailand.

Why it must be different in LOS?

It's not.

Fact: In each and every country you must have a man in charge, T. Blair or MacMillan or the beloved M. Tatcher. so if the Prime go, who will be in charge?

Umm I don't know but as a wild guess it will be someone else - when M. Tatcher [sic] went, Britain wasn't without a PM was it???

What the people on the street were complaining about, and who where those people? What about the waitress in a restaurant in Lop Buri, Non Kwai, or Nong Muang? And what if there is more people upcountry than in Bkk area?

Umm, they were exercising their democratic right to stage a protest. As for the waitress you mention, she can also do the same at rallies around the country as other waitresses and indeed people from many occupations and cities have, and have her say by way of vote in the election - which I'm sure she did so don't you worry your little cotton socks about her matey.

Where can I meet other farangs living here? After the mass sunday afternoon? Or in blue wave after 6 PM?

Wherever you wish. Try business networking events, pubs, sports clubs, member clubs British Club, RBSC, Alliance Francaise et al

Fact: there is farangs participating to the manisfestations. Is it legal? Is it dangerous

You mean expressing opinions on the internet, on a bar stool, in an office? Not illegal and not dangerous to my knowledge.

You have been hanging around the wrong farangs and your view of them is warped. Get out more and you might be surprised.

I think I must be a bit retarded (read moron)

Its highly possible. Edited April 3, 2006 by Doza

[OldAsiaHand]

...LAst point, I know some will certainly say i am myself clueless and know nothing about thailand...

Don't worry about it. Whatever you say some dink on this board will tell you that you are 'clueless and know nothing about Thailand.' It is the standard response of all those self-righteous foreigners who clog this board with posts designed mostly to prove how politically correct and morally superior to the rest of us they are, that only they have attained a state of blissful oneness with these lovely smiling people among whom we live.

Now that you've stirred up these folks, I have no doubt that they will bombard you with prime examples of their own unique wisdom (like those you have already attracted above). Batten down the hatches, Froggy. The culturally sensitive nuts are marching.

Edited April 3, 2006 by OldAsiaHand

[sting01]

@ProfessorFart

1) you right I am not a troll, should I say I am know physically by some people from thaivisa, and also by some of their top 'advert subscripter' (sorry I do not know the name in english for people who pay to have advert on a web site).

2) I live in thialand (and eventually work also) since the 12th of january 2002, sound more than 4 years.

3) I, during those years, lived 1 years in lop buri province, a village called nong muang (my work allow me to do it in almost any places). So I have see manythings, and have fair idea about life in thailand , and how rural thai people live with 3000 or 4000 bht a month.

For the rest, I do NOT contest the right of opinion, I have mine of the subject and it's very close of the mainstream. What I say , and noone in fact have already refute it, is the more the expat community is invloved in Taksin removal, the worst it COULD be for us in the future.

If you live here since a while, you will agree thai are proud to be thai living in thailand, and every time a problem is coming, this problem was coming for farang land, they solved it because they were thai , but the problem still exist in farang land. When Tchernobyl exploded, in France we were told the radioactive cloud avoided our country, just to say I am not attcking thais, the same bulls**** is told everywhere.

I am simply trying to warn people to not be involved physically with the ongoing political events in thailand, because in any way it will create personnal and general problem.

If anything happend, and if it can be prooved it was farangs invloved in, be sure the guilty (does culprits is right here, honest question I am unsure) will be the farangs, even if there is only one mixed with 10 000 thai people.

About the beer lovers, let say people who posted here are obviously not in that category, I do agree. But I also do suppose they simply have a normal life and they will not close their business, or let their students alone to go to walk on the streets with some religious extremist, or some greedy people. So what about the people claiming they went, and claiming they will go? Let imagine, not John Lennon, but smething else :

next friday people go on the streets, the police have say they were very patient, I do understand as their patience have limit, so it's not impossible the police react and arrest people. If amongst the people arrested they find several farangs what will be the final outcome for them as individual? And for us as community?

Maybe should have simply state that first and say nothing more, it should certainly make it easier to be understood. But I also tried to explain not only by an eventual fear of the police, but also for some reasons that I think legitimate (not ourcountry, not our fight, nothing we have to gain, nothing we can give to thailand...).

Anyway, in 4 years I posted only 200 times I think, and got banned 5 times. I do have sharp opinions, and I explain them sharply. I know it's not diplomatic.

@ Doza

But you have an opinion on him don't you? And if you lived in the US you might express that every now and then - especially if it affected you in terms of visa, tax, business climate etc??? Yes, of course you would, just as farangs like to express an opinion on politics here in Thailand.

In France you do not have the right to do so as foreigners, you could be arrested and kicked out (A. Gemayel is a famous exemple). Same apply in thailand, you do not have right to manifest against thai policies. Even if yo udo not like them. MANIFEST is the key words. I repeat I am just warning people to do not go on hte streets.

when M. Tatcher [sic] went, Britain wasn't without a PM was it???

M. stand for Margareth not Mister, yes it was someone else, it was my point in fact, someone must be in charge. People in the forum push to oust someone, but do not offer an alternative (good or bad is not the problem, just nothing is offered).

Wherever you wish. Try business networking events, pubs, sports clubs, member clubs British Club, RBSC, Alliance Francaise et al

Close ties with my embassy , member of the franco thai chamber of commerce since mid 2002, BKK chess club, and also playing pool one time per week Suk Soi 5 (I love pool). I do not say everybody the same, I say some are taking risk, and make us have risks.

You mean expressing opinions on the internet, on a bar stool, in an office? Not illegal and not dangerous to my knowledge.

I say : going in the street, and manifesting for problems that they do not obviously ( and that I do not also obviously) fully understand because they are not (as I am not) thai citizen.

Anyway, to both posters, thanks to have take time to read it, and answer me. I confess sometimes I am too sharp (read write offensive post), and your answers where pertinents

[sting01]

I think I must be a bit retarded (read moron)

Its highly possible.

LMAO.

Mate, sorry to call you like that, you hit me hard. It was .... mmm .... does dialectic make sense in english? ... or even better ... lawyer dress effect as we use to say in france. IQ of 220 are not called moron. lol

[Doza]

Fair enough, I understand where you are coming from (your points) but I haven't seen or heard of farangs 'manifesting'. Is it happening? Where? I did not know farangs were joining protests etc. Where did you see it?

BTW, I know two farangs who have Thai citizenship. There would have to be more (I don't know everyone). They would obviously have a right to protest and 'manifest'. Maybe you saw them???

[sting01]

Fair enough, I understand where you are coming from (your points) but I haven't seen or heard of farangs 'manifesting'. Is it happening? Where? I did not know farangs were joining protests etc. Where did you see it?

BTW, I know two farangs who have Thai citizenship. There would have to be more (I don't know everyone). They would obviously have a right to protest and 'manifest'. Maybe you saw them???

I read it this morning in the forum, subforum thainewsclip.

the huge post related to the election day. I do not think they were thai, or thai with thai citizenship (I can be wrong).

Anyway, it's just my small 2 points. If they get caught , it will not me to sleep. But if they get caught, they will not sleep during a while, and if things are the same as during the war against druggs dealer , it will be more pictures of them on the thai newspapers than if they have won the lottery. And one more time it will be : it's because the farangs. Just tryin to avoid problems for others by remenbering some reality (even if we are not all sex tourist, drug smugglers, pedophile, english teachers, cross dressers and tutti quanti, their is a part of thai people who think we are because their prefered tabloid have wrote so, as the Sun wrote every thai woman is a prostitute. both lies, but both make the tabloid sell.....)

And I swear (even if the level of my english made it hard to believe), the post is only to avoid potential problem for both individual or the community. Nothing more.

[ProfessorFart]

My first point of confusion here sting is that you obviously DO know what is going on around you therefore professing ignorance is a little bizzare.

Do you have a problem with your fellow westerners in Thailand? This seems to be more the case than anything else.

One key point is that even if there were westerners at the demos I doubt the Thais would have paid them much attention or seen them as subversive elements. More likely they would be seen as curious people turning up for a look at what was happening. Certainly there is always the danger of being made a scapegoat however the Thai government had enough on their plates to worry about the odd westerner wandering around the demos.

FYI I am a beer lover however the price of beer does not affect my politics.

As for Old Asia Hand's response, there is nothing more tiresome on an open forum than someone with such a lame handle bringing nothing to the table but sneering at those who are trying to answer an OP.

My advice to you is that maybe you should stick to dispensing your Christopher G Moore learned bar stool wisdom and not criticise those who actually try to help people see things from differing viewpoints.

[chanchao]

I kind of agree with Prof Fart on the first point Sting made, namely that foreigners should not want to even reflect on Thai politics because it's for the Thais only. With a family and/or interests in Thailand, it's obvious you care enough about the place to comment. Many of the people who never comment on anything political are exactly the ones who don't give a ()*@#(*# beyond getting their monthly retirement check and the price of beer.

But I kind of agree with the second point the OP (sting01) made that Thaksin has been doing a pretty good job (for all his flaws, of which people were WELL aware when they voted for him 3 times), and how his stepping down this way was unfortunate.

Finally though, more foreigners than you might think aren't anti-Thaksin. For many of the anti-crowd, their argument doesn't go a lot further than the opening hours of gogo bars. (But not for all, obviously; What Thaksin tried to do to the press and his overal authoritarian style is worthy of criticism. But with 3 successive absolute majority election victories, he's the most successful Thai PM ever.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[sting01]

My first point of confusion here sting is that you obviously DO know what is going on around you therefore professing ignorance is a little bizzare.

Do you have a problem with your fellow westerners in Thailand? This seems to be more the case than anything else.

One key point is that even if there were westerners at the demos I doubt the Thais would have paid them much attention or seen them as subversive elements. More likely they would be seen as curious people turning up for a look at what was happening. Certainly there is always the danger of being made a scapegoat however the Thai government had enough on their plates to worry about the odd westerner wandering around the demos.

FYI I am a beer lover however the price of beer does not affect my politics.

As for Old Asia Hand's response, there is nothing more tiresome on an open forum than someone with such a lame handle bringing nothing to the table but sneering at those who are trying to answer an OP.

My advice to you is that maybe you should stick to dispensing your Christopher G Moore learned bar stool wisdom and not criticise those who actually try to help people see things from differing viewpoints.

Christopher G Moore, sound like the books you got for free when wiating a train in USA (ArmTrack is so messy you have to wait always). So sorry also to used an old rethoric trick, I know the ancients greeks used it alot, and I did so by respect for what is usually called culture (please do not take your colt and shoot ...).

My adive was, and still be, to follow the laws , because if we do not do so we will have problems. I do know well there is some people from a remote anglo saxons country who sincerely think all therest of the world are only political morons and they have the duty (God speaking) to educate them.

I simply said, Thai people are bold enought to know what is good or bad for them, and we do not have nor the right (legal right I mean) nor the duty (moral duty? lol) to interfere in public. On the same order of idea I am sorry one people who was kind enought to read me was mistaken (by my absolutely broken english) and supposed I judged Taksin, I did not do that.

The point, was, is and will be, we do not have to interfere with the thai politic if we are not thai. By intefering , as I have alsready exlain, I mean people going with the mobs. We all know daily on the thai newspaper, farangs are always show on the worst side. If a mob start to go in rampage, be sure it would be not the thai who did it, but simply the 'farangs' or any other aliens who illegaly participate to a peacefull protest. If you disagre with that, please take a look on the news paper during the thewar against drug.

I tried to warn those amongst us who planned to go to the next manisfestation, because if they get caught by the police for any reasons, they will have problems, huge problems.

There is also another aspect, go to my country (france), marry a french girl, have kids, open a business, but do not take the french nationality, then be sure you will still not have the right to have political activity ( I am assuming you are US citizen, or not EU citizen), and if yo utry to do so, you will simply be kicked from France. One famous exemple is Amin Gemayel, even as personnal friend of the President ofthe Republic, he had to leave because he did so. And between us, who we are to suppose we know best than thai people what is good for them?

Anyway, that is a forum, is it's tiresome to read my post, you have the right to skip , as I so have the right to give an opinion different of yours (or does democracy mean simply follow the one who have the biggest speakers?). If yes in USA it would be considered as a non respect ofthe first amemdment and harsh penalities will follow.

Also, I really would like to know what Taksin did to hurt the farang community that much? Raise taxes? Well, without taxes Governement is powerless. Made the visa harsher to get? No, but it's sure things went harsher for the cheaters (people who used to pay someone for doing the visa run in their places, or buying visa in Kha San). Does Taksin have limitate the capacity of the foreigners to invest in Thailand? Oviously no, for proof I would like say the law was made better at least in onesector : telecommunication, right now as foreigner you can own up to 49% of the capital of thai comunication company (As true for exemple or as A****).

Does Taksin performed well for eachand every thai citizens, kept the country unite, and improved the wealth of each and every thai citizen? I do not know as I am not thai, and as I am not thai I can not take position on that point, and if oyu have a little bit of common sense, you will not.

[sting01]

Sadly, the OP represents a portion of the farang community that is too-well represented.

As Axel and Fart said, it is our duty to understand the political dynamics of the country we call our adopted home w/out actually interfering in their process.

To spend one's life in the farang ghettos of Thailand and never make an atempt to learn the culture, language etc. is the sad lot of too many here...

Boon Mee, do not presume too much about me or what I am, only based on my english skills. I am french, more when I was young enought to be at school and university, I must confess at that time, english was tought to the people who were not clevert enought to learn german. So sorry, but I learned english because my work, and because I have to understand technicall documents, not because I learned it at school or university.

Second, I do not live in a ghetto, not I am purely clueless about thai culture.

About the country you call your adopted home, did you have the nationality? Are you thai citizen? If not, you are only a guest. Invite me to your home, you will quickly understand what is an unwanted guest. If I start to say your wiskey is not the right brand, your carpet not the quality, your wifey not cute enought, and your arm chair sucks, if I start to say 'anyway dear sir, I know better than you in everything', you will not like me much, nor invite me again, and certainly show me the exist door asap. Am I right?

So I simply say we have to be mesurate in our public activity or we will (both as individual and as community) have to pay the price.

And one again, do not presume too much about other. I live here since years, I have my own business, I am not living in Khao San, I think I am an respectable memberof the expat comunity, I think also I have a normal social life.I do not use druggs, nor drink alcohol (for medical reasons, not moral), but I love to play pool in pool bar (to say I am not an angel me too).

[meom]

Also, I really would like to know what Taksin did to hurt the farang community that much? Raise taxes? Well, without taxes Governement is powerless. Made the visa harsher to get? No, but it's sure things went harsher for the cheaters (people who used to pay someone for doing the visa run in their places, or buying visa in Kha San).

Didn't he raise the financial requirements for marriage visa from 200,000 to 400,000 and set the amount for "pension visa" at 800,000?

[monochaser]

Haven't been around in a while and I must say I am very impressed with the popular threads here in general topics on politics and lizards; most impressive. Just about as impressive as topics in farang life section: rain, baan toaster, whats the city, whats this place. I think there's a collective case of brain fry around here that may come from cabin fever. This expat's feeling on the election and Thai politics?

YAWN

[ProfessorFart]

My adive was, and still be, to follow the laws , because if we do not do so we will have problems.

I don't think anyone would disagree with that. However, attending a protest was not against any law bar the laws which Thaksin quickly tried to throw together as regards the location of the protests.

I simply said, Thai people are bold enought to know what is good or bad for them, and we do not have nor the right (legal right I mean) nor the duty (moral duty? lol) to interfere in public.

Again I doubt anyone would disagree with you here. The whole anti Thaksin movement was purely a Thai issue. As you are no doubt aware Thais are as politically aware as any nationality may be and certainly needed no prompting from a handful of westerners as you seem to think.

Anyway, that is a forum, is it's tiresome to read my post, you have the right to skip , as I so have the right to give an opinion different of yours (or does democracy mean simply follow the one who have the biggest speakers?). If yes in USA it would be considered as a non respect ofthe first amemdment and harsh penalities will follow.

You have made some valid well reasoned points Sting. Your language skills may have made them a little difficult to grasp, however your English is certainly better than my French and it is the last resort of the simple minded to pick on the language skills of the non native English speaker.

Does Taksin performed well for eachand every thai citizens, kept the country unite, and improved the wealth of each and every thai citizen? I do not know as I am not thai, and as I am not thai I can not take position on that point, and if oyu have a little bit of common sense, you will not.

Had Thaksin improved the wealth of each and every Thai citizen I very much doubt that we would have seen the recent mass demonstrations.

[mogoso]

Also, I really would like to know what Taksin did to hurt the farang community that much? Raise taxes? Well, without taxes Governement is powerless. Made the visa harsher to get? No, but it's sure things went harsher for the cheaters (people who used to pay someone for doing the visa run in their places, or buying visa in Kha San).

Didn't he raise the financial requirements for marriage visa from 200,000 to 400,000 and set the amount for "pension visa" at 800,000?

Big whoppee. If your retired and haven't the wherewithal to have $20,000 USD to have deposited in a bank, what the blue blazes are you doing living outta your country? If nothing else your pension or social security should be enough to meet the minimum 30,000 thb per month in place of the bank deposit. If not what will occur when your too infirm to care for yourself? You expect the Thai gov't to care for you because you were too inept to plan for your future? to realize that the end of your time on earth will happen and you'll probably be sick to care for yourself for a portion of your time left. So Issan rice farmers taxes should go to pay for your sorry butt ? ( really I don't know or care to know the actual state of your butt condition, just a phrase )

Really they aren't or shouldn't be a great imposition on your financial position. If you leave, you get to take your money with you, if you die, your going to leave it behind anyway

[sting01]

Also, I really would like to know what Taksin did to hurt the farang community that much? Raise taxes? Well, without taxes Governement is powerless. Made the visa harsher to get? No, but it's sure things went harsher for the cheaters (people who used to pay someone for doing the visa run in their places, or buying visa in Kha San).

Didn't he raise the financial requirements for marriage visa from 200,000 to 400,000 and set the amount for "pension visa" at 800,000?

Big whoppee. If your retired and haven't the wherewithal to have $20,000 USD to have deposited in a bank, what the blue blazes are you doing living outta your country? If nothing else your pension or social security should be enough to meet the minimum 30,000 thb per month in place of the bank deposit. If not what will occur when your too infirm to care for yourself? You expect the Thai gov't to care for you because you were too inept to plan for your future? to realize that the end of your time on earth will happen and you'll probably be sick to care for yourself for a portion of your time left. So Issan rice farmers taxes should go to pay for your sorry butt ? ( really I don't know or care to know the actual state of your butt condition, just a phrase )

Really they aren't or shouldn't be a great imposition on your financial position. If you leave, you get to take your money with you, if you die, your going to leave it behind anyway

Funny but realistic.

It ws not point, but it make it stronger I think. Rathe than to speak about the price of the beer bottle, I should have raise that one, but basically that is the same ...

Anyway, in my country also, there is requirement if a foreigner want to marry a local, and I find that is quite well (if married = easy visa and further nationality), so if good in my country it must be good here also.

[Arsenal]

My first point of confusion here sting is that you obviously DO know what is going on around you therefore professing ignorance is a little bizzare.

Do you have a problem with your fellow westerners in Thailand? This seems to be more the case than anything else.

One key point is that even if there were westerners at the demos I doubt the Thais would have paid them much attention or seen them as subversive elements. More likely they would be seen as curious people turning up for a look at what was happening. Certainly there is always the danger of being made a scapegoat however the Thai government had enough on their plates to worry about the odd westerner wandering around the demos.

FYI I am a beer lover however the price of beer does not affect my politics.

As for Old Asia Hand's response, there is nothing more tiresome on an open forum than someone with such a lame handle bringing nothing to the table but sneering at those who are trying to answer an OP.

My advice to you is that maybe you should stick to dispensing your Christopher G Moore learned bar stool wisdom and not criticise those who actually try to help people see things from differing viewpoints.

Talking about other peoples lame handles is like the pot calling the kettle black when your chosen name is "Profesor Fart".

[meom]

Also, I really would like to know what Taksin did to hurt the farang community that much? Raise taxes? Well, without taxes Governement is powerless. Made the visa harsher to get? No, but it's sure things went harsher for the cheaters (people who used to pay someone for doing the visa run in their places, or buying visa in Kha San).

Didn't he raise the financial requirements for marriage visa from 200,000 to 400,000 and set the amount for "pension visa" at 800,000?

Big whoppee. If your retired and haven't the wherewithal to have $20,000 USD to have deposited in a bank, what the blue blazes are you doing living outta your country? If nothing else your pension or social security should be enough to meet the minimum 30,000 thb per month in place of the bank deposit. If not what will occur when your too infirm to care for yourself? You expect the Thai gov't to care for you because you were too inept to plan for your future? to realize that the end of your time on earth will happen and you'll probably be sick to care for yourself for a portion of your time left. So Issan rice farmers taxes should go to pay for your sorry butt ? ( really I don't know or care to know the actual state of your butt condition, just a phrase )

Really they aren't or shouldn't be a great imposition on your financial position. If you leave, you get to take your money with you, if you die, your going to leave it behind anyway

You're right and it's not applicable to myself but I've heard some sobbing stories of falang who couldn't meet the new financial obligations. Some people seem to live very frugal and if they're not in anybodies way why should they be denied a visa just because they cannot come up with the higher amount.

[jdinasia]

I'll stick with discussing my opinions with friends ... and online ... and going to the occassional rally ..... (both sides) to watch .... reading what I can ... and participating in the general foolishness.

Big growing pains for a new democracy ... hope it keeps going forward with new checks and balances, more freedom of the press (particularly Television in rural communities) and continued high participation by the population. Will be nice to see people told "This is YOUR vote and this is what you are voting for! Listen to your hearts and minds and not what some village headman is telling you!"

[seonai]

Sting you sound just like my EX husband -

I say BRING IN COLPYAT

[moonoi]

I think that as "farang" in Thailand we have every right to express our opinions, especially those of us who are here (hopefully) permanently with Thai wife/family etc.

Personally I have spoken many times to my gf about the situation (and I don't pretend to know everything btw) never taking sides (I can't say I'm pro taksin, but I am in favour of democratic process so I don't agree with the way he was forced out). Just before April 2nd she thanked me for what I had told her, she had never before considered the reasons for voting TRT, she did because her parents did, and only knew of the "good" things TRT (note that when I discussed with her I tried to make a distinction between TRT and Taksin something Mr Taksin should pay attention too as well I think ) had done for Thailand. I told her the reasons for PADs' stand and why the opposition parties felt it necessary not to contest the election. In the end she decided to go for a No Vote, she didn't believe anyone could do a better job than TRT, however she felt Taksin was not a fit leader for TRT and for Thailand. I didn't force her to do this I merely told her the other side of the argument...she made the decision herself.

I personally don't care about what is benefcial to me in Thailand. First and foremost is what is right for Thailand and the Thai people. That doesn't mean I don't moan and complain about certain things here, it just means I know my place in society....if I want to have a voice, then I have to become a Thai citizen, something that I intend to do however difficult it maybe (and I think I do have a right to complain about the unfair treatment men vs women farang get in obtaining citizenship* !!!!!) and something I know my gf and her parents would really like. Just have to learn thai first...believe me I'm trying, but its not easy

Sorry for rambling on hope what I said makes sense!

*in case you were wondering what I mean, I'm refering to the fact that women don't have to be able to speak Thai fluently to obtain citizenship through marriage, but men do