Ngv vs lpg

[sin]

does anyone out there familiar with ngv & lpg , i hearded that about 500 baht lpg can go for about 250 km . i don't know about ngv consumption.

[Nowhereman60]

To fill my lpg tank it would cost 600 to 700 baht and I can drive for 500 km. cost 13.50 per liter

[VocalNeal]

For 500 baht at least 275. NGV might be cheaper but range is limited to about 180kms. Filling time is longer, grab a coffee. There is a resort owner in Pattaya who used to have an NGV van and could not drive to the airport and back without filling up!

So the decision could be range related depending on your driving profile. If you drive mainly short distances and live next to an NGV station it maybe worth it. If you drive longer distances, like weekend trips up country etc.. then LPG.

Cost for LPG could be as high as 1.8B/km, 2B/km if thrashed. Conversion cost is about 20,000-22,000 so do your homework.

[ignis]

Also what area you live......... most places you find LPG, some areas it is hard to find CNG/NGV

Many Mini Bus and Pickup's have 2 Tanks fitted.. often see the Triton + TATA CNG that have 3 tanks fitted,, [ 2 are fitted under back in place of spare wheel and 1 in back] if you only have a car then be sure you can get CNG/NGV

[Ace of Pop]

All i can add is never ever pull into a 7/11 on a main highway that sells only Gas.The Toilets are disgusting and it's full of Thais who look like they were extras on the Deliverance Movie.I recommend a stop at one that sells Diesel, Benzine, and Gas. Sit in Amazon ,enjoy a Chocolate ,and watch the ques remain nearly static for Gas. No Thanks. not for me,E 85 Rules.!!

[monty]

Costs per km purely depends on the car and its consumption.

With LPG the savings mainly depend on the current price of regular petrol.

With current prices (38.8 B/l for gasohol 95, and 13.5 B/l LPG) your cost per km on LPG will be 45% of what it will cost on petrol.

So a car doing 10km/l on petrol will run 257 km on 1000 Baht of gasohol 95.

That same 257 km will cost you 450 B on LPG.

This is very conservatively calculated (at 20% more consumption per km on LPG) and leaves you some extra money to buy oil for your highly recommended valve saver.

NGV even cheaper, but NGV probably will reduce lifespan of your engine quite dramatically (regardless of which engine/brand), whereas engine lifespan using LPG, combined with valve saver, will on most engines have very little impact on lifespan.

Some engines will even using a valve saver and running on LPG have a reduced lifespan. However, the top-end overhaul needed to repair an LPG damaged engine will still likely cost much less then whatever saved by running on LPG.

I would never consider converting to NGV. I might however consider a factory fitted NGV vehicle. The latter will have specifically different valves/valve seats to handle NGV.

[wprime]

NGV goes about the same distance per baht but you need a bigger tank. NGV is also weaker so you'll feel a bit slower (a well configured LPG system can be as fast as petrol).

NGV is safer as it's lighter than air, if you have an LPG leak it will build around the car waiting for someone to have a smoke. Of course these systems only leak if they're poorly maintained, and when LPG leaks you can smell it so anyone with half a brain will fix it straight away - so LPG isn't really dangerous either.

[sin]

NGV goes about the same distance per baht but you need a bigger tank. NGV is also weaker so you'll feel a bit slower (a well configured LPG system can be as fast as petrol).

NGV is safer as it's lighter than air, if you have an LPG leak it will build around the car waiting for someone to have a smoke. Of course these systems only leak if they're poorly maintained, and when LPG leaks you can smell it so anyone with half a brain will fix it straight away - so LPG isn't really dangerous either.

Costs per km purely depends on the car and its consumption.

With LPG the savings mainly depend on the current price of regular petrol.

With current prices (38.8 B/l for gasohol 95, and 13.5 B/l LPG) your cost per km on LPG will be 45% of what it will cost on petrol.

So a car doing 10km/l on petrol will run 257 km on 1000 Baht of gasohol 95.

That same 257 km will cost you 450 B on LPG.

This is very conservatively calculated (at 20% more consumption per km on LPG) and leaves you some extra money to buy oil for your highly recommended valve saver.

NGV even cheaper, but NGV probably will reduce lifespan of your engine quite dramatically (regardless of which engine/brand), whereas engine lifespan using LPG, combined with valve saver, will on most engines have very little impact on lifespan.

Some engines will even using a valve saver and running on LPG have a reduced lifespan. However, the top-end overhaul needed to repair an LPG damaged engine will still likely cost much less then whatever saved by running on LPG.

I would never consider converting to NGV. I might however consider a factory fitted NGV vehicle. The latter will have specifically different valves/valve seats to handle NGV.

For 500 baht at least 275. NGV might be cheaper but range is limited to about 180kms. Filling time is longer, grab a coffee. There is a resort owner in Pattaya who used to have an NGV van and could not drive to the airport and back without filling up!

So the decision could be range related depending on your driving profile. If you drive mainly short distances and live next to an NGV station it maybe worth it. If you drive longer distances, like weekend trips up country etc.. then LPG.

Cost for LPG could be as high as 1.8B/km, 2B/km if thrashed. Conversion cost is about 20,000-22,000 so do your homework.

Also what area you live......... most places you find LPG, some areas it is hard to find CNG/NGV

Many Mini Bus and Pickup's have 2 Tanks fitted.. often see the Triton + TATA CNG that have 3 tanks fitted,, [ 2 are fitted under back in place of spare wheel and 1 in back] if you only have a car then be sure you can get CNG/NGV

thank you guys for all the precious input. i certainly have a clearer picture now.

[Pib]

For 500 baht at least 275. NGV might be cheaper but range is limited to about 180kms. Filling time is longer, grab a coffee. There is a resort owner in Pattaya who used to have an NGV van and could not drive to the airport and back without filling up!

So the decision could be range related depending on your driving profile. If you drive mainly short distances and live next to an NGV station it maybe worth it. If you drive longer distances, like weekend trips up country etc.. then LPG.

Cost for LPG could be as high as 1.8B/km, 2B/km if thrashed. Conversion cost is about 20,000-22,000 so do your homework.

No kidding about NGV filling times. Since most taxis in Bangkok use NGV, at many NGV stations you just see taxis lined up with other regular cars/vans mixed into the line. It takes a while to get your vehicle filled due to the slow NGV filling process and when you routinely have to wait in a l....o....n.....g line to even get to the pump that just sucks. For this reason I wouldn't get a NGV vehicle if that was my only vehicle plus the govt still plans to push-up NGV prices through subsidizing it less....like they have finally successfully started doing the same thing with LPG. But if you have a nearby, no-to-short lines NGV station then NGV could save you some serious fuel money for now without having to buy a pot of coffee while waiting to fill-up. I would go for LPG vs NGV especially since LPG stations are more plentiful across Thailand.

[bazmlb]

After driving from Pattaya to Surin to Mukdahan this weekend, CNG is not the way to go, LPG is everywhere, if you see a CNG station you usually have to back track 10km to get to it loosing 10-15% of your fill. The filling times are a killer and so are the queues.

If it was just for at home, in Pattaya its a 20km round trip to get CNG and a wait most times which puts me right off it.

The Optra 1.6 I have had a loan of gets around 130km round town and 180km in the country, I have had LPG before and am definitely fitting it to my car here.

[Ace of Pop]

Try E 85,its cheap and doesnt nacker your engine up.

[monty]

Try E 85,its cheap and doesnt nacker your engine up.

Not many places sell it, especially here in Pattaya.

Not too many cars can handle it either!

[Ace of Pop]

Try E 85,its cheap and doesnt nacker your engine up.

Not many places sell it, especially here in Pattaya.

Not too many cars can handle it either!

True Petroleum Stations Sell it,they also offer a Conversion Kit. On special offer at the moment,not expesive,bout 3K. Some Readers may find it usefull. .23 Bht P.Litre.

[keemapoot]

Try E 85,its cheap and doesnt nacker your engine up.

Not many places sell it, especially here in Pattaya.

Not too many cars can handle it either!

True Petroleum Stations Sell it,they also offer a Conversion Kit. On special offer at the moment,not expesive,bout 3K. Some Readers may find it usefull. .23 Bht P.Litre.

Sounds very interesting, but "True Petroleum Stations?" Never heard of them. They offer a conversion kit? What do car manufacturers have to say about this? I suppose it voids the warranty for most. Where to find these conversion places?

[Ace of Pop]

Apart from Googling TRUE Petrol Thailand, i can't help much. Those i've seen being converted are past warranty. For me at 2000 Rpm,most of the time its good,but im told in City Driving,you drop a fair bit but the Lo price covers it.

[keemapoot]

Apart from Googling TRUE Petrol Thailand, i can't help much. Those i've seen being converted are past warranty. For me at 2000 Rpm,most of the time its good,but im told in City Driving,you drop a fair bit but the Lo price covers it.

Just noticed we have a thread that covered that, and it doesn't look very promising, especially for newer cars.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/617329-e85-conversion-pay-22bt-instead-of-36bt-for-91-gasohol/

[Ace of Pop]

I'm told E20 Ready respond O.K.. But then Gas nackers any Car if not Factory O.E. IMO.

[muratremix]

Try E 85,its cheap and doesnt nacker your engine up.

Not many places sell it, especially here in Pattaya.

Not too many cars can handle it either!

True Petroleum Stations Sell it,they also offer a Conversion Kit. On special offer at the moment,not expesive,bout 3K. Some Readers may find it usefull. .23 Bht P.Litre.

So you converted your car? If not, please don't share disinformation.I don't believe an E20 compatible engine can be converted to E85 just for 3000 baht. Besides, E85 fuel consumption should be much higher compared to E10, then where is the price advantage?

[sin]

Try E 85,its cheap and doesnt nacker your engine up.

Not many places sell it, especially here in Pattaya.

Not too many cars can handle it either!

True Petroleum Stations Sell it,they also offer a Conversion Kit. On special offer at the moment,not expesive,bout 3K. Some Readers may find it usefull. .23 Bht P.Litre.

any true petroleum station in pattaya ? i'm driving a 2008 vios E series , do i need to convert ? i'm currently using E20 .

[Ace of Pop]

Try E 85,its cheap and doesnt nacker your engine up.

Not many places sell it, especially here in Pattaya.

Not too many cars can handle it either!

True Petroleum Stations Sell it,they also offer a Conversion Kit. On special offer at the moment,not expesive,bout 3K. Some Readers may find it usefull. .23 Bht P.Litre.

any true petroleum station in pattaya ? i'm driving a 2008 vios E series , do i need to convert ? i'm currently using E20 .

Cant find a True Website apart from that Ex P.M. Phone Chap.Just hang on Monty,someone must know.I use one in Nakasawan or whatever its called. The other is opposite Central in Phitsanulok.No idea about Patts.

[Ace of Pop]

Oh Dear,its Pure Petrol,not True.7000Bht for coversion,with 2000Bht of E85 included .

[monty]

Eventhough they seem to be based in Rayong (Map Tha Phut), which is pretty close to Pattaya, I can't say I've ever seen one of their petrol stations.

And they apparently have around 80 stations nationwide, that's a tad over 1 per province

----edit----

Ok, found the list for East Thailand, and the closest station they have to Pattaya is in Sattahip.

Bit of a detour to go fill up!

http://www.pumppure.com/html-th/pump/east.html

And for those curious in the other regions in Thailand:

http://www.pumppure.com/html-th/pump/index.php

Google translate does a pretty good job of translating the addresses

[monty]

Found a Google maps with the E85 stations in Thailand. Handy if you have an E85 capable car!

But before rushing out, check following links on fuel economy:

http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/e85-vs-gasoline-comparison-test.html

http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=fuel&subject=fuelAlt&story=e85

It's a fact that E85 contains 27% less energy compared to regular petrol, and this seems to jibe very close with the consumption figures in the tests.

In Thailand you'll still end up ahead, but instead of the current 23.18 Baht/litre, you'll end up paying 30 Baht after adjusting for the increased consumption. Still not bad, but nowhere near as spectacular as many people think it is!

[Ace of Pop]

Found a Google maps with the E85 stations in Thailand. Handy if you have an E85 capable car!

But before rushing out, check following links on fuel economy:

http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/e85-vs-gasoline-comparison-test.html

http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=fuel&subject=fuelAlt&story=e85

It's a fact that E85 contains 27% less energy compared to regular petrol, and this seems to jibe very close with the consumption figures in the tests.

In Thailand you'll still end up ahead, but instead of the current 23.18 Baht/litre, you'll end up paying 30 Baht after adjusting for the increased consumption. Still not bad, but nowhere near as spectacular as many people think it is!

True, but it saves a bit,and doesnt cost as much as a Gas Mod,or take space away and burn the Engine out.Many Gas converters have stopped, sick of comebacks on blown engines.As a User,the drop isnt 27 % drop when cruzing, if it was id not use it from lazyness,27% increase in fill up stops,no way.

[keemapoot]

Found a Google maps with the E85 stations in Thailand. Handy if you have an E85 capable car!

But before rushing out, check following links on fuel economy:

http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/e85-vs-gasoline-comparison-test.html

http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=fuel&subject=fuelAlt&story=e85

It's a fact that E85 contains 27% less energy compared to regular petrol, and this seems to jibe very close with the consumption figures in the tests.

In Thailand you'll still end up ahead, but instead of the current 23.18 Baht/litre, you'll end up paying 30 Baht after adjusting for the increased consumption. Still not bad, but nowhere near as spectacular as many people think it is!

That was an interesting comparison, but I wonder how the comparison would be for those in Thailand currently running 91 gasohol converting to e85? It seems to me that comparison cited would be closer to Thailand's 95 or 91 benzene vs. e85.

Still, this is interesting, and the FAQ on the Pure website "debunks" all the alleged misconceptions, or at least that's their version.

I have a family member burning up lots of gasohol 91 in what I thought was an economy car I bought her, a Mazda 2 (which gets crappy gas mileage). As the car is now 4 years old, I may be tempted to do a conversion on this car if the numbers work out.

[anon210]

Just buy a diesel engine and you will get gas at 30 THB/L without all the trouble of engine conversion.

[Ace of Pop]

Just buy a diesel engine and you will get gas at 30 THB/L without all the trouble of engine conversion.

Nice Idea then,we can all Clack Together,and drag a 3 Litre Lump to Lotus for 10 Kilos of Shopping @ 12ClicsP.L for 30Bht.In Our Chang T Shirts. Wheres Me Swift.