New costs announced for visitor and migrant visa's

[Jay Sata]

Immigration minister Jeremy Hunt has announced plans to charge new migrants to Britain an upfront levy of at least £1,000 to cover the cost of their healthcare in their first five years in the UK.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/210438/Sustaining_services__ensuring_fairness_consultation_document.pdf

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-23156403

[bangkokrick]

About time too and 1000 GBP is nowhere near enough.

[Bucko]

I would-- gladly pay 3.84 pounds a week--for 5 years health cover--if I moved there from N.Z ---but I suspect it would not apply to me

[pigeonjake]

they will get more then that back in the first month from the dole,

its a joke,

jake

[theoldgit]

To avoid this discussion turning into another alarmist catfight that has been evident in a number of recent threads, please note that this is only a consultation document and there are no firm proposals yet.

The type of person this is seemingly aimed at already have no recourse to benefits, so no dole, and the majority already have no access to full free NHS treatment.

If this thread goes into another downward spiral, it will be closed without warning.

[crazykopite]

To avoid this discussion turning into another alarmist catfight that has been evident in a number of recent threads, please note that this is only a consultation document and there are no firm proposals yet. The type of person this is seemingly aimed at already have no recourse to benefits, so no dole, and the majority already have no access to full free NHS treatment. If this thread goes into another downward spiral, it will be closed without warning.

Having worked for the NHS in the past I can assure you that 99% of overseas visitors walk into hospitals/ surgeries for treatment with no questions asked . It was my experience in the hospital I worked in that these overseas patients were never billed and I am not talking about a plaster on a finger When I visit the local medical centre here on Koh Samui I am normally charged 100 baht to have a dressing changed and I must say they do a very good job at it. You are incorrect if you are under the illusion that overseas visitors to the UK do not get free treatment they do and as I have been out of the UK for more than 3 years regardless that I still pay taxes in that Country I as a British subject cannot get free treatment through the NHS for the 1st 3 months.

[theoldgit]

@ crazykopite, as you have worked for the NHS, though don't how long ago and in what capacity, you have put your finger on the problem, there are guidelines about what treatment a visitor should receive over an above emergency treatment, but it seems that these guidelines are not vigorously or consistently applied.

I have every sympathy with those health care professionals working in the NHS, they are there to treat sick people not act as government cash collectors.

Like you I am UK citizen and always purchase travel insurance when I visit the UK, also like you I pay UK tax.

[Card]

@ crazykopite, as you have worked for the NHS, though don't how long ago and in what capacity, you have put your finger on the problem, there are guidelines about what treatment a visitor should receive over an above emergency treatment, but it seems that these guidelines are not vigorously or consistently applied. I have every sympathy with those health care professionals working in the NHS, they are there to treat sick people not act as government cash collectors. Like you I am UK citizen and always purchase travel insurance when I visit the UK, also like you I pay UK tax.

Agree. I think hospitals should have a specially trained administrator to check the rights to treatment of all those non-emergency cases who seek treatment in NHS hospitals to weed out the scroungers. This would take away that responsibility from the health professionals, whose job is to treat the sick. The pay of the administrator would easily recovered and more from the savings to the NHS.

[Suffinator]

It needs to be more if the Government are to stop the abuse of the NHS

Visitors to the UK from Select Countries to Deposit Cash Before Entering the UK

[hellodolly]

To avoid this discussion turning into another alarmist catfight that has been evident in a number of recent threads, please note that this is only a consultation document and there are no firm proposals yet. The type of person this is seemingly aimed at already have no recourse to benefits, so no dole, and the majority already have no access to full free NHS treatment. If this thread goes into another downward spiral, it will be closed without warning.

Having worked for the NHS in the past I can assure you that 99% of overseas visitors walk into hospitals/ surgeries for treatment with no questions asked . It was my experience in the hospital I worked in that these overseas patients were never billed and I am not talking about a plaster on a finger When I visit the local medical centre here on Koh Samui I am normally charged 100 baht to have a dressing changed and I must say they do a very good job at it. You are incorrect if you are under the illusion that overseas visitors to the UK do not get free treatment they do and as I have been out of the UK for more than 3 years regardless that I still pay taxes in that Country I as a British subject cannot get free treatment through the NHS for the 1st 3 months.

Does this mean I as a visitor with say a 30 day visa can limp into their hospital and have my hip replaced for free. Even if I had to pay £1,000 plus transportation what a deal cheaper than the cheapest acceptable deal here in Thailand.

[silver sea]

As you might expect, the Daily Mail is on the case:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2355152/Professor-J-Meirion-Thomas-A-200-wont-stop-foreigners-abusing-NHS-But-I-know-.html

[theoldgit]

Does this mean I as a visitor with say a 30 day visa can limp into their hospital and have my hip replaced for free.

No it doesn't, in first instance, as I've already pointed out, it's only a consultation document, the recommendation is that people with visas that allow them to stay in the UK for in excess of six months pay some sort of bond to cover health care costs.

At the present time nobody on a visit visa would get that sort of treatment on the NHS, and that's not going to change.

[7by7]

Is no one else as concerned as I about this and the effect it will have on family migrants?

Maybe people haven't read the document, or the Home Office consultation, properly.

If this proposal goes ahead, any British citizen who wants to live in the UK with their non EEA national spouse or partner will have to pay this.

On top of visa and leave to remain fees which are, according to the government's own figures, already set at way above the actual cost of processing an application.

On top of the tax already being paid by the British spouse or partner.

On top of the tax which the foreign spouse or partner may pay if they work once in the UK, which many do.

The message from this government is clear.

If you want to marry a non EEA national and live in the UK with them; forget it unless you are rich!

[Jay Sata]

It appears the general thrust it to include some sort of insurance fee in visitor visa's with an upfront payment for long term migrants.

So is that fair? Well we all have to pay for medical care in Thailand or the USA so I guess it is.

Travel insurance is something we all buy for obvious reasons.

In reply to 7by7 I'd suggest £200 a year for access to the UK medical system is a bargain.

It works out at around £16.00 a week.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Jay Sata

[7by7]

Paid up front; an extra £1000 on top of an already high visa fee set way above cost!

I have no problems with visitors and other temporary migrants being made to have adequate health insurance and not being allowed access to the NHS without it.

As you'll see from my posts in the similar topic in the Thai News Forum, I believe any tourist who travels without insurance is an idiot.

But spouses and partners of British citizens coming to live indefinitely in the UK with their British spouse or partner; no.

You may say that they have not made a contribution.

Follow that logic and you'd deny NHS care to British children because they'd never made a contribution!

NHS care for children is paid for through the taxes of their parents; so should NHS care for family migrants. Especially as the family migrant themselves will often be working and paying tax once in the UK.

Edited July 4, 2013 by 7by7

[englishinsiam]

7by7 has hit the nail on the head.

This seems to be very ill thought out a knee jerk reaction to try and quieten those asking for Borders to be closed.

There are other ways of saving money and one is sending people back to the last safe country they left when seeking Asylum. For instance when found under a lorry after cruising the channel send them back to France.

The only reason they don't claim Asylum there is because the French aren't as soft as us on spongers.

This bill will alienate those of us that are fortunate enough to find love away from the EU. By the time we go for my wife's Citizenship next May we will have parted with around £3,500 just in Visa and exam fees.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Jay Sata]

I don't want to get side tracked in to discussing visa fees but I'd suggest they reflect the costs involved and are more than worth it given that the spouse or partner can take employment in the UK.

As I said in my previous post we are only talking about £16.00 a week for access to the vast raft of services the NHS provides.

Englishsiam said

This bill will alienate those of us that are fortunate enough to find love away from the EU. By the time we go for my wife's Citizenship next May we will have parted with around £3,500 just in Visa and exam fees.

That's not a bad deal for citizenship of the UK.

Less than £50 a week spread over a year.

Most people spend more than that going to the pub.

Let's get these charges in context.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Jay Sata

[mickyboy]

@ crazykopite, as you have worked for the NHS, though don't how long ago and in what capacity, you have put your finger on the problem, there are guidelines about what treatment a visitor should receive over an above emergency treatment, but it seems that these guidelines are not vigorously or consistently applied. I have every sympathy with those health care professionals working in the NHS, they are there to treat sick people not act as government cash collectors. Like you I am UK citizen and always purchase travel insurance when I visit the UK, also like you I pay UK tax.

as a uk citizen i also live and work in the uk but only work for cash so pay no tax

[jmccarty]

Ought to charge GBP 1,000/year for the first 5 years until they can show they are regular tax payers. And if not, kick them out.

[mickyboy]

I don't want to get side tracked in to discussing visa fees but I'd suggest they reflect the costs involved and are more than worth it given that the spouse or partner can take employment in the UK.

As I said in my previous post we are only talking about £16.00 a week for access to the vast raft of services the NHS provides.

Englishsiam said

This bill will alienate those of us that are fortunate enough to find love away from the EU. By the time we go for my wife's Citizenship next May we will have parted with around £3,500 just in Visa and exam fees.

That's not a bad deal for citizenship of the UK.

Less than £50 a week spread over a year.

Most people spend more than that going to the pub.

Let's get these charges in context.

there is no free nhs only for unemployed the rest pay through national insurance and old people paid that all there lifes then take there houses to pay good old uk oh and asylem seekers get free

[theoldgit]

This bill will alienate those of us that are fortunate enough to find love away from the EU. By the time we go for my wife's Citizenship next May we will have parted with around £3,500 just in Visa and exam fees.

It's not a bill yet, as I said earlier it's a consulation document and anybody can respond.

Details of how to respond are on Page 55 of the paper, I suspect 7by7 is already on his second draft.

[Jay Sata]

At least there appears to be agreement by all that visitors should have travel insurance or have it included in the visa fee.

So all we are talking about is how much a migrant should pay?

[BuriramRes]

About time too and 1000 GBP is nowhere near enough.

I think that 1,000 pounds is a real rip-off since it is such a crap service. Also remember that if the person is working then they will have the same charges deducted from their wages. When I was working in the UK (1996-2000) I was being ripped off at the rate of 800 pounds per month for their no choice so called excellent health care.

[theoldgit]

there is no free nhs only for unemployed the rest pay through national insurance and old people paid that all there lifes then take there houses to pay good old uk oh and asylem seekers get free

You have already told us that you avoid paying tax by being only being paid cash in hand, are you saying that at least to contribute to the National Insurance pot?

[theoldgit]

When I was working in the UK (1996-2000) I was being ripped off at the rate of 800 pounds per month for their no choice so called excellent health care.

If you are talking about National Insurance Contributions, you would need to be on £26,500 a month to pay £800, I was clearly in the wrong job.

[Jay Sata]

You can rubbish the NHS as much as you like until you need it. I wonder how you will cope if you need some serious medical attention in Burriram?

In the UK you are carefully removed from a crashed car by a team of experts and transported by ambulance or helicopter in minutes. In Thailand a bunch of enthusiastic amateurs pull you from the wreck and throw you in the back of an old pick-up.

A friends Thai wife (long term resident and UK citizen) suffered bacterial meningitis a couple of years ago. She spent two weeks in intensive care and several weeks in hospital. Excellent treatment, some of it in a private room, and all free. She reckons she would have died in Thailand.

How do you put a price on that?

[7by7]

I don't want to get side tracked in to discussing visa fees but I'd suggest they reflect the costs involved

You'd be wrong.

The last announcement of fees increases for April 2013 doesn't include the actual cost, or I can't find one that does, so the following is taken from the 2012 announcement.

Settlement visa:

Cost, £391; fee from April 2012, £826. Profit; £435.

FLR

By post, cost £308, fee £561. Profit £253.

In person, £307, fee £867. Profit £560

ILR:

By post cost £255; Fee from April 2012 £991. Profit £736.

In person cost £255, fee from April 2012 £1377. Profit £1122.

As can bee seen, the government is already making a vast profit from family migrants, and that doesn't even include any tax they'll pay once working.

I think these fees are relevant, as to charge family migrants an extra £1000 on top of these vast profits to access the NHS is just plain wrong! The profit made from their visa and LTR fees more than covers this.

Edited to add FLR fees as, of course, family migrants now have to make an FLR application after 2.5 years in the UK.

Edited July 4, 2013 by 7by7

[madmin]

About time too and 1000 GBP is nowhere near enough.

I think that 1,000 pounds is a real rip-off since it is such a crap service. Also remember that if the person is working then they will have the same charges deducted from their wages. When I was working in the UK (1996-2000) I was being ripped off at the rate of 800 pounds per month for their no choice so called excellent health care.

I have to disagree with you there bud the national health is excellent and provide very good care having just had cancer treatment and now on the road to recovery, £1000. Equates to £200. Per year if they do it as £200 per year it would not be so much of a burden on us spouses who will have to stump up the extra, the real problem with this is the Europeans coming over get free care and benefits register at an friends or relatives address then bugger off back to Europe and the still claim benefits

[Jay Sata]

Taking those fees in context they are well worth what you get in return.The right for your spouse to join you and enjoy life in the UK.

Most people spend a lot more than the above eating and drinking in pubs and restaurants every year.

In comparison Thailand makes it more difficult for a farang to reside on a full time basis with their partner and we are not allowed to work.

But back to the topic.

Tell me what Thailand offers in terms of medical aid for a spouse?

[7by7]

I am not going to get into a pointless debate about health care in Thailand. There is a topic about Thai healthcare for foreigners already running in Thai News, so if you want to discuss that maybe you should do so there.

As for visa and LTR fees, I have always said that I have no objection to people being charged a fair fee to cover the costs; but the vast profits made by the government are not fair.

And now they want to add a further £1000 on top as well!