In danger of being a nation run by thieves: Thai editorial

[kannot]

Join the club. Perhaps, after a long and costly series of exercises (maybe a few trips here and there in the region and the world), a few minor officials will be put on trial, and lots of reports will be written, but not much will change. In reality I do not believe that Thailand is any more or less corrupt than any other country. It is just in the west that the corruption is better hidden and overlooked. Good luck guys, and remember to duck just in case you do accidentally uncover real corruption of any truly important.

Thats right when i SHOT dead some guy in the Uk I was out on bail the same day, thats when the cops stopped me for speeding but I paid them £2.00 and again was on my way, I shoved to the front of the queue at the bank and slipped the girl another £1.00 and was outta there fast, just enough time to go round canvassing the electorate by giving them £10 each for me to get their vote.

Yeah Thailand reminds me so much of my corrupt home country

[smotherb]

It is not in danger of being runs by theives

It already is run by thieves whose sole interest i personal gain / profit of themselves, family and friends

I think they are trying to climb the list of most corrupt countries

There goal for 2013 is to crack the top 10

It seems to me if Thailand was nation run by thieves, it would be just like every other nation

[catweazle]

"in danger of"

On the other hand: Name a nation that is not run by thieves (banks and corporations)...

Edited July 4, 2013 by catweazle

[Nowisee]

It is impossible for corruption to be completely stamped out from our nation. But, as a matter of urgency, we should try to curb it as much and as best as we can.

Really? Edited July 4, 2013 by Nowisee

[DekDaeng]

Where has this guy been? Thailand has been run by thieves for the past 80 years or more.

There is a difference between what he knows, and what he can say - & remain a free man.

That headline could not sail much closer to the wind.

Edited July 4, 2013 by DekDaeng

[jackinbkk]

I think it's a mistranslation.

In danger of being a nation run by thieves

nation run by thieves,In danger

Tell me a nation that isn't though.

[Lickey]

What i would like to know, is that how many of the posters on this thread have been helped or hindered by coruption?

Seems to me that when somebody wants to correct things, all you lot do is Poo Poo the idea, carry on your Thai-Bashing, see where it gets you!!!

[ozyjon]

Surely the people of Thailand are not dumb enough to fall for this nonsense forever. Surely!

Don't call me shirley ???

[jaidam]

Join the club. Perhaps, after a long and costly series of exercises (maybe a few trips here and there in the region and the world), a few minor officials will be put on trial, and lots of reports will be written, but not much will change. In reality I do not believe that Thailand is any more or less corrupt than any other country. It is just in the west that the corruption is better hidden and overlooked. Good luck guys, and remember to duck just in case you do accidentally uncover real corruption of any truly important.

Thats right when i SHOT dead some guy in the Uk I was out on bail the same day, thats when the cops stopped me for speeding but I paid them £2.00 and again was on my way, I shoved to the front of the queue at the bank and slipped the girl another £1.00 and was outta there fast, just enough time to go round canvassing the electorate by giving them £10 each for me to get their vote.

Yeah Thailand reminds me so much of my corrupt home country

Well your name is not Tony Martin then. Try bribing traffic police in the UK and you will get a prison term. Push to the front of a queue like you say and you will likely lose some teeth. Trying to equate corruption here with corruption in the western world(which I admit exists but only a tiny tiny fraction of here) is a non starter. In the UK politicians regularly do prison time, look at Archer, Pryce, Huhne who went to prison for relatively minor offences.

[hawker9000]

What i would like to know, is that how many of the posters on this thread have been helped or hindered by coruption?

Seems to me that when somebody wants to correct things, all you lot do is Poo Poo the idea, carry on your Thai-Bashing, see where it gets you!!!

It's called not wanting to see things get any worse than they already are. The more of people's lives government, any government, sticks its nose into (always in the name of justice, fairness, and most perverse of all "progress"), the more screwed up things get. Take a corrupt cop. If he's corrupt, using his position to extort money from the population, accept money from wrongdoers to look the other way, and shirk his responsibilities generally, then WHY HAVE THE COP?! And why in the world would you want to actually EXPAND his responsibilities!! ...And give him MORE authority!!! 'Same for career politicians. 'Same for bureaucrats. If they can only be depended upon to be part of and continue the problem, rather than honestly pursuing solutions in the national (rather than their own career...) interest, what good is to have them, and their programs, and their departments, & agencies, & bureaus, & staffs??? Yeah, some of us do foolishly poo-poo that pesky little concept of waste & abuse of public resources and the public trust. We'll just never learn I guess.

Now I'd say that EVERY time I pay some tax or fee that just ends up in some bureaucrat's, or politician's, or politician's friend's (or mother's, or brother's, or nephew's..........) pocket, and/or is otherwise wasted or put to nefarious use, I'm being "hindered" by corruption. When do I pay such taxes or fees, as a foreigner? Well, let's see. I pay them to stay at hotels, eat in restaurants, buy stuff in stores, travel through the airport... I also pay them indirectly every time I pay for some product or service at a price that reflects the taxes & fees & bribes the SELLER has to pay. I don't go to Phuket anymore because of the public transportation situation there and rising crime - I guess you could say I'm therefore "hindered" from going to Phuket. I wouldn't even consider buying any property in Thailand because of the monkey business that seems so common with real estate transactions involving foreigners - I guess you could say I'm "hindered" from owning property in Thailand. I wouldn't dream of bringing any significant assets into Thailand to invest for fear of never being able to get them back out again... And it just goes on & on. It's a little disappointing that anyone would actually have to explain that, but hope that answers your question and is what you wanted to know...

[jalansanitwong]

The CCC is a toothless tiger and always has been . Its a 'front' to keep Thai's thinking their money is being watched over.

Well their money is being watched over. Hence the above headline.

[keithcresswell]

Corruption is rife at all levels.

Recently my girlfriend returned to her village to vote in local elections. She saw nothing wrong in being offered 500 baht by three of the candidates for her vote. Similarly she could see nothing wrong in taking the money from all them. Democracy at work; and a cool 1500 baht profit.

[hhiser]

Too late!

[kocheedogyi]

My question is this: How is corruption in Thailand different from corruption in the U.S. or any other large ‘developed” nation? Obama has Goldman-Sachs bankers, among many more corporations, running all aspect of the economy - meaning they are rigging and stealing the world blind. I can’t rave against corruption anywhere since I come from the most corrupt and morally bankrupt nation on the planet.

[gosompoi]

My question is this: How is corruption in Thailand different from corruption in the U.S. or any other large ‘developed” nation? Obama has Goldman-Sachs bankers, among many more corporations, running all aspect of the economy - meaning they are rigging and stealing the world blind. I can’t rave against corruption anywhere since I come from the most corrupt and morally bankrupt nation on the planet.

When if a teacher wants to move schools or get their raises which are due they must first give one years worth of their raise the person signing off. Example, after 10 years you should get a 7,000 baht raise but with your required paperwork you must pay 70,000 baht fee. When government pays for new school books or a new building the contractor who pays the most to the director gets job. When 50% of the road construction costs is payouts to local road government bosses. Or Teachers and Police want to change work areas, maybe to move closer to wife, children or aging parents you must pay one year's salary. It is not just big business paying politicians but the little man taking loans out on their homes and land to pay for things the government offers for free. In the last year I know of more than 100 people paying bribes between 30,000 and 200,000 to government officials.

Edited July 5, 2013 by gosompoi

[Keesters]

They must be between 45 and 70

Why? Surely some under 45s could also be "evidently honest" and have a bit more vigor in fighting corruption.

[Thai at Heart]

The scale may be different, but was it ever thus?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I knew someone who worked for a government school director upcountry...

The director would take a cut of most major purchasing activities, and often, even PO's for supplies and such would go to local businesses that would kick back a portion of the purchase to the director.

20 to 30% seemed to be a common amount... meaning that was the portion of government funds that never got to the students the money was intended for.

I never heard, though, about the payoff to get staff pay raises scam at that particular institution.

Edited July 5, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[gosompoi]

They must be between 45 and 70

Why? Surely some under 45s could also be "evidently honest" and have a bit more vigor in fighting corruption.

So they are fighting corruption but not discrimination.

[gosompoi]

I knew someone who worked for a government school director upcountry...

The director would take a cut of most major purchasing activities, and often, even PO's for supplies and such would go to local businesses that would kick back a portion of the purchase to the director.

20 to 30% seemed to be a common amount... meaning that was the portion of government funds that never got to the students the money was intended for.

I never heard, though, about the payoff to get staff pay raises scam at that particular institution.

Not a new scam, if money is involved and an official is in the loop then money trades hands. My school has over 300 teachers and my wife's school has 40 teachers, they openly discuss how much and who they need to pay. If they do not pay they do not get until they can borrow from friends or family. I even drove 4 teachers to the bank and then to the man's office. I wai'ed him and watched 20 to 30 teachers file in and give him money. I know teachers paying 50,000 to move schools. The school next to our home needs 3 math teachers and they put out a request for more teachers. Seeing the request and my wife is math teacher she asked to move schools to this school. They said fine as soon as you can pay 200,000 baht. I could type for hours of stories of teachers, nurses, doctors, police and officials paying fees for free services but I am bored and it is useless.

Edited July 5, 2013 by gosompoi

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I wasn't challenging your account of things at the schools you're familiar with... I was just saying... the salaries scam was not apparently done at my acquaintance's school, or at least, I never heard about it.

But now that you raise it, I'll inquire further on that point.

[gosompoi]

I wasn't challenging your account of things at the schools you're familiar with... I was just saying... the salaries scam was not apparently done at my acquaintance's school, or at least, I never heard about it.

But now that you raise it, I'll inquire further on that point.

Not directed at your reply as much just general frustration.

Edited July 5, 2013 by gosompoi

[OzMick]

I knew someone who worked for a government school director upcountry...

The director would take a cut of most major purchasing activities, and often, even PO's for supplies and such would go to local businesses that would kick back a portion of the purchase to the director.

20 to 30% seemed to be a common amount... meaning that was the portion of government funds that never got to the students the money was intended for.

I never heard, though, about the payoff to get staff pay raises scam at that particular institution.

Not a new scam, if money is involved and an official is in the loop then money trades hands. My school has over 300 teachers and my wife's school has 40 teachers, they openly discuss how much and who they need to pay. If they do not pay they do not get until they can borrow from friends or family. I even drove 4 teachers to the bank and then to the man's office. I wai'ed him and watched 20 to 30 teachers file in and give him money. I know teachers paying 50,000 to move schools. The school next to our home needs 3 math teachers and they put out a request for more teachers. Seeing the request and my wife is math teacher she asked to move schools to this school. They said fine as soon as you can pay 200,000 baht. I could type for hours of stories of teachers, nurses, doctors, police and officials paying fees for free services but I am bored and it is useless.

Can you clarify the "they" demanding B200,000 for the school change - is it demanded by the school seeking teachers or her current school?

If the former, this is a form of job selling. If the latter, what is to prevent her resignation to take the new position?

[gosompoi]

I knew someone who worked for a government school director upcountry...

The director would take a cut of most major purchasing activities, and often, even PO's for supplies and such would go to local businesses that would kick back a portion of the purchase to the director.

20 to 30% seemed to be a common amount... meaning that was the portion of government funds that never got to the students the money was intended for.

I never heard, though, about the payoff to get staff pay raises scam at that particular institution.

Not a new scam, if money is involved and an official is in the loop then money trades hands. My school has over 300 teachers and my wife's school has 40 teachers, they openly discuss how much and who they need to pay. If they do not pay they do not get until they can borrow from friends or family. I even drove 4 teachers to the bank and then to the man's office. I wai'ed him and watched 20 to 30 teachers file in and give him money. I know teachers paying 50,000 to move schools. The school next to our home needs 3 math teachers and they put out a request for more teachers. Seeing the request and my wife is math teacher she asked to move schools to this school. They said fine as soon as you can pay 200,000 baht. I could type for hours of stories of teachers, nurses, doctors, police and officials paying fees for free services but I am bored and it is useless.

Can you clarify the "they" demanding B200,000 for the school change - is it demanded by the school seeking teachers or her current school?

If the former, this is a form of job selling. If the latter, what is to prevent her resignation to take the new position?

Government High school put notices with the area district office of need/request for teachers. Example not enough English teachers at a school the school requests 1 or 2 more teachers. It was the man at the district area office in charge of approving transfers between schools. Her school director, signed her request for transfer and she was summoned to district office and told those are very expensive shoes you are trying to fill. If you want the transfer it will cost you 200,000. She said she could not pay and she was told it is best to stay where you are now.

[JCaligula]

Hub of everything and the HQ for thieves..what else we haven't heard yet? It the center for all illegal means..who in this world doesn't acknowledge that...all their brains has been corrupted for only one thing..money.If you have enough substantial money to be here then nothing will come into your way..

Edited July 5, 2013 by metisdead
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[Pattaya28]

........ and who will get the position to fight corruption ??

........ the one that offers the fattest brown envelop

[selftaopath]

I honestly believe The Kingdom of Thailand and the Thai people could NOT function without corruption. Think a/b it e.g. everyone operating a motorized vehicle w/out license penalized. No "home made vehicles", no prostitution, no automatic passing grades for education, no teachers/govt workers buying positions etc. The place would crumble.

[kannot]

Join the club. Perhaps, after a long and costly series of exercises (maybe a few trips here and there in the region and the world), a few minor officials will be put on trial, and lots of reports will be written, but not much will change. In reality I do not believe that Thailand is any more or less corrupt than any other country. It is just in the west that the corruption is better hidden and overlooked. Good luck guys, and remember to duck just in case you do accidentally uncover real corruption of any truly important.

Thats right when i SHOT dead some guy in the Uk I was out on bail the same day, thats when the cops stopped me for speeding but I paid them £2.00 and again was on my way, I shoved to the front of the queue at the bank and slipped the girl another £1.00 and was outta there fast, just enough time to go round canvassing the electorate by giving them £10 each for me to get their vote.

Yeah Thailand reminds me so much of my corrupt home country

Well your name is not Tony Martin then. Try bribing traffic police in the UK and you will get a prison term. Push to the front of a queue like you say and you will likely lose some teeth. Trying to equate corruption here with corruption in the western world(which I admit exists but only a tiny tiny fraction of here) is a non starter. In the UK politicians regularly do prison time, look at Archer, Pryce, Huhne who went to prison for relatively minor offences.

I think you have TOTALLY missed the point my friend

[xylophone]

The Thai ethos of corruption is taught and starts at the very top to down... just google the wealth...who is....

Sad to have to agree with this, however corruption can never be stopped in Thailand because it is endemic throughout and as the poster says, "starts at the very top to down.....".

[bigbamboo]

I'm sure that most Thais would rather live in a corruption free Thailand but when you consider that the country is run by possibly the most corrupt Thai of them all and this corruption trickles all the way down then, as the saying goes, if you can't beat 'em, join em.

Until a great man or woman comes along to show Thailand the way (and don't hold your breath on that) then nothing will change.