Pm Thaksin Resigns

[elorajah]

For the benefit of you all, I have been working on the numbers.

Througout the country, the NO vote topped TRT in 116 out of 400 districts. If the opposition had run unified in the election and we assume that NO votes represent votes that would have gone to the opposition's unity candidate, in the constituency segment, we would have had 284 TRT MPs vs 116 opposition. For party list, if we assume that both NO votes and invalid ballots were for the opposition, that gives us 62 TRT seats vs 38 for the opposition. Ahhh... but you may say that if Chart Thai had actually run, they would have picked up more party list votes from TRT in Suphan Buri. Fair enough. Let's assume then that TRT would have won 60 party list seats vs 40 for the opposition. So including the constituencies, that gives a total of 344 TRT MPs vs 156 for the opposition.

But Sriracha John asks "what about the large number of spoiled ballots in the constituencies?". We can't just assume that all the spoiled votes would have gone to the opposition - people spoil their votes for a number of reasons, but anecdotal evidence suggests that many spoiled their ballots out of protest. Fair enough, so let's assume that in constituencies where the NO vote combined with spoiled ballots exceeds the TRT candidate's total by 5000 votes, the opposition would have won the seat. These conditions are met in 14 constituencies througout the country. So the total comes to 328 for TRT vs 172 for the opposition.

Ahh... but one more thing. TRT votes topped no votes in almost all the districts where there was a Chart Thai or Mahachon incumbent. Had these two parties run candidates, it would have been reasonable for them to keep the seats out of the hands of TRT. OK then, I'm going to assume that all Chart Thai and Mahachon incumbents would have won. I will even hand all four constituencies in Phichit, the home of Mahachon leader Sanan, to the opposition (even though they didn't win them last time). That leaves 307 seats for TRT vs 193 for the opposition. By Thai standards, that's still a landslide victory. In fact, the second biggest in Thai history, after Thaksin's feat last year.

I've done all I can to spin the numbers the opposition's way, but the sad reality is that Thaksin still would have won in a free and fair election.

This post has been edited by tettyan: Today, 2006-04-07 09:24:11

Thank you, tettyan, for this analytical piece of information. The last week has seen more emotional outburst and downright slanted opinion of the situation. The reason the opposition boycotted the polls is because they will lose. And I am saying what was obvious, stupid me!

[jdinasia]

5555

What happens in the USA is of little interest to many of the Ex-pats from the USA here in Thailand .....

However those of us that live HERE are rather interested in the political process here.

Guess the anti-PAD people that screamed so loud ... and then cheared for Thaksin's 'win' ... then stayed silent briefly when Thaksin resigned ... are back :-)

[sriracha john]

Sriracha john I forgot to mention your reply smacked of the self righteous.

I'm sorry if it came across that way... murderous thugs have that effect on me.

So, does that mean you spend as much time on American forums? Heard there are quite a few disgruntled Americans wanting to oust G.W. Bush and reinstore democracy there too...

Not to mention electoral fraud and extra judicial killings...Or media control...Didn't Thaksin study in the States? Sorry, just couldn't resist that one

Actually, I don't spend one minute on American forums.

I choose to devote my attention to this forum, as others in Thailand pale in comparison, to the location of where I reside, not where I go on occasion to visit.

It is where my hang my hat, it is where I live... and I wouldn't want it any other way.

This is my home... and I care a great deal about what happens to the people that share my space.

Truly, this thread has now been concluded. I appreciate Tettyan's admirable efforts at the statistics and would likely be a nice intro to a new thread,

eg. "Thailand... Post-Thaksin" or even

"By-Election... What's In Store?"

"Numbers Crunching, How DO They All Add Up?"

As for this one, Thaksin has resigned. He's as much a part of the past history as the

"PAD Rally One" thread.

Thaksin's gone. And now it's time to move on...

same as me....

Happy Songkran to everyone.

Going off to be among the people that share my space for a couple of weeks.

Sea, Sand, and Sun.

Recharge the batteries now that mission #1 has been accomplished.

("Mission Impossible" was what many people thought)

Enjoy the celebrations... and take care of yourselves...

Peace.

/// Topic: closed?????????

Edited April 7, 2006 by sriracha john

[lukamar]

Guess the anti-PAD people that screamed so loud ... and then cheared for Thaksin's 'win' ... then stayed silent briefly when Thaksin resigned ... are back :-)

We were just letting the mob gloat a bit, we were still all here.

[cclub75]

By-elections will be held in Constituency 3 of Nonthaburi, and those constituencies where there was single candidate who failed to win at least 20 percent of the electorate requirement in Phetchaburi, Prachuap Khiri Khan and most of the southern provinces.

Do you any idea on where we can find official results ?

5 days after the vote, it still looking a bit confusing...

[jezchesters]

Democrat leader, Abhist, said that Thaksin may play puppet master role.

His statement does not carry water and is most unfounded.

He is no historian. He does not study political history and he

knows nothing about world history, other than Thailand.

Once a new PM takes over, the former PM is history.

As a classical saying, ' The war is over '.

I personally think that Abhist is too young and his knowledge of world

politics is only limited to Thailand only.

Democracy is something very new to Thailand. Assuming a new Government

takes over. Then a certain group does not like the new PM. Then history will

repeat again....... take it to the streets and scream till the cows come home.

Wake up Thailand. Do not put personal vendetta into politics.

Let the voters decide. That is what true democracy is all about.

Do you really think that someone who studied at Eton and Oxford's knowledge is limited to Thailand?

[Jai Dee]

Policemen fully equipped in coping with PAD's demo today

Policemen are prepared to deal with the today’s demonstration held by the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD).

Commander of the Traffic Police, Major-general Panu Kerdlabpol (ภาณุ เกิดลาภผล) said that he has assigned his officials to enclose Sanam Luang with fences, and motorists have not been allowed to park their vehicles around the park.

He said that he is not worried about the demonstration today as the area of the demonstration does not obstruct traffic routes. However, he has formed a team of his officials to fully facilitate the motorists and inspect the situation.

Metropolitan Police Spokesman Phinit Maneerat (พินิต มณีรัตน์) said that he has divided his officials into four groups and dispatched them to maintain security around the venue.

He expressed his belief that the situation will proceed peacefully as the current political turmoil has subsided.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 07 April 2006

[Jai Dee]

ANALYSIS - Thai tumult shows democracy's growing pains in Asia

BANGKOK, April 7 (Reuters) - Days after populist Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra claimed his third big consecutive election victory, he bowed to an urban middle-class revolt against alleged corruption and abuse of power and stepped aside.

On February 24, the day Thaksin called a snap poll to counter unrelenting protests in Bangkok, Philippine President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo declared emergency rule amid months of street demonstrations after the military said it foiled a coup attempt. A year-and-a-half ago, she scored a big electoral win after first becoming president in a people power revolt.

The protests in Thailand and the Philippines drew inspiration from movements against army-backed rulers -- Philippine dictator Ferdinand Marcos in 1986, the 1992 "Black May" uprising in Bangkok, the fall of General Suharto in 1998.

But if past movements were aimed at overthrowing military despotism, the uprisings today target cultures of corruption and cronyism in which patronage trumps principles.

"When you start taking business excesses, blatant excesses, then the people call you for it," said Ken Conboy, a Jakarta-based risk consultant.

"That's what the people did with Thaksin, that's what they did with Suharto and that's also part of it in the Philippines."

The army persuaded Suharto to quit in 1998 after violent student-led street protests, a decision as surprising then as Thaksin's was this week.

Suharto's six children had become multi-millionaires from lucrative government contracts and monopoly licences. People finally got fed up, Conboy said.

The tipping point for Thaksin came when his relatives sold -- tax-free -- their $1.9 billion stake in Shin Corp, the telecommunications empire he founded, to a Singapore state company, sparking outrage in the streets.

Arroyo, who survived an impeachment attempt last September, remains under a cloud of suspicion from allegations of vote-rigging in the 2004 presidential election and graft within her family.

POLITICISED INSTITUTIONS

Institutions such as courts, election commissions and other regulatory bodies suffer from a perceived lack of independence and credibility in Asia's fledgling democracies.

Hence the recourse to extra-constitutional remedies, said Abhisit Vejjajiva, the Eton and Oxford-educated leader of Thailand's main opposition Democrat Party.

Allegations of corruption and wrongdoing should go through the Corruption Commission, the Constitutional Court or Senate. "But these processes have been distorted by the prime minister," Abhisit said in an interview.

"So in the end, we have an elected politician who can remain above the law with no mechanism to deal with it -- no accountability, no responsibility. That to me is not democracy."

Despite fears the Thai military might intervene in a country that has seen 23 coups or attempted coups in the last 74 years, the generals insist soldiers will stay out of this fray.

The Philippines military -- which joined the movements that toppled dictator Ferdinand Marcos 20 years ago and former President Joseph Estrada in 2000 -- repeatedly denies it will step into Arroyo's embroglio.

After Suharto was convinced to retire after three decades of unfettered power, the Indonesian military retreated to the barracks, abandoning its old "dual function" ideology that guaranteed it a paramount role in politics.

So now, perhaps the strongest institutions in Asia's young democracies are among the oldest -- the regal and religious; kings and bishops, monks and mullahs.

Arroyo narrowly avoided being pushed out of office last year when a conference of Catholic bishops declined to join the chorus of foes and erstwhile allies calling for her head. The Church had been at the forefront of previous people power movements.

Abdurrahman Wahid, Indonesia's first post-Suharto elected president, was head of its largest Muslim organisation. In Thailand, Thaksin announced he was taking a "rest" after visiting revered King Bhumibol Adulyadej, saying he didn't want anything to mar June's 60th anniversary of the king's accession to the throne.

An opposition boycott of the polls and the surprising number of abstention votes meant Thaksin would have had a hard time convening parliament and forming a government.

But he was also looking beyond the political mathematics to the metaphysics, taking cover under the mantle of the world's longest-ruling monarch.

"The king hasn't made a direct intervention, but the king has been used as a reason for compromise and to restore stability," said Bob Broadfoot, managing director of Hong-Kong based Political and Economic Risk Consultancy.

Source: Reuters - 07 Apr 2006

[Jai Dee]

Khunying Sudarat requested the Opposition not to create more conditions

The Deputy Leader of the Thai Rak Thai Party, Khunying Sudarat Keyuraphan (สุดารัตน์ เกยุราพันธ์), has pleaded the Opposition not to create more conditions.

Democrat Party Leader Abhisit Vejjajiva’s earlier commented on caretaker Prime Minister and Thai Rak Thai Party Leader Thaksin Shinawatra’s announcement to temporarily withdraw his political role. Mr. Abhisit indicated that Dr. Thaksin will pull the strings from behind the scenes when the new government has been set up.

In response, Khunying Sudarat has requested the Democrat Party to take its actions in accordance with the framework of law. She said that Dr. Thaksin has stepped back so as to bring peace back to the country, while the Democrat Party is trying to stir up the situation. > The Deputy Leader of the Thai Rak Thai Party, Khunying Sudarat Keyuraphan (สุดารัตน์ เกยุราพันธ์), has pleaded the former Opposition not to create more conditions.

Democrat party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva’s (อภิสิทธิ์ เวชชาชีวะ ) eariler indicated that caretaker Prime Minister and Thai Rak Thai party leader Thaksin Shinawatra’s announcement to temporarily withdraw his political role is to ''pull strings'' from behind the scenes in the new government.

As for the Democrat's indication, Khunying Sudarat has requested the Democrat party to take their actions in accordance with the framework of the law. She said that Dr. Thaksin has stepped back so as to contribute peace in the country, while the Democrat party is trying to stir up the situation.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 07 April 2006

[Jai Dee]

TRT will seriously discuss over designating new PM after the election has been finished

The Thai Rak Thai Party stated that it will seriously discuss over the selection of the person who will take the Prime Ministerial post again after the election is over.

Thai Rak Thai Party Spokesperson Sita Divari (ศิธา ทิวารี) affirmed that the person who will take this important position must be accepted by all units and the general public.

On the occasion of the Democrat Party's 60th anniversary, he has demanded the party to express it's standpoint of upholding democracy by fielding its members to run in the by-election. He remarked that the party does not respect its standpoint as it has refused to file its MPs to join in the election.

He has requested the Democrat Party to admit caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra’s decision as he has shown his responsibility by deciding to take a temporary break from politics.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 07 April 2006

[Insight]

TRT will seriously discuss over designating new PM after the election has been finished

The Thai Rak Thai Party stated that it will seriously discuss over the selection of the person who will take the Prime Ministerial post again after the election is over.

Thai Rak Thai Party Spokesperson Sita Divari (ศิธา ทิวารี) affirmed that the person who will take this important position must be accepted by all units and the general public.

On the occasion of the Democrat Party's 60th anniversary, he has demanded the party to express it's standpoint of upholding democracy by fielding its members to run in the by-election. He remarked that the party does not respect its standpoint as it has refused to file its MPs to join in the election.

He has requested the Democrat Party to admit caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra’s decision as he has shown his responsibility by deciding to take a temporary break from politics.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 07 April 2006

CLASSIC!

Isn't the party leader supposed to be the "face" of the party? How will the electorate know who they're voting for?

It can only get better....

[Jai Dee]

Commerce Minister believes that whoever takes over the premiership role has to have profound experience in commerce and law.

The Commerce Minister, Mr. Thanong Bidaya (ทนง พิทยะ) said that the new Prime Minister must have expertise and profound experience in trade and knowledge in law. Mr Thanong however did not recommend who is suitable for the top post.

Mr Thanong also said he expects that the economy will grow by five percent in the first half of this year. As for the second half, he said that the economy growth of the country will depend on the management of the new government.

As for the demonstrations being held by the People's Alliance for Democracy, he expressed his belief that investors are still confident in the economy of Thailand as the investing figures in the Stock Exchange of Thailand have slightly increased.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 07 April 2006

[kyselak]

In Thai rural heartland, dismay at Thaksin's fate

by Paris Lord

CHIANG MAI, Thailand, April 7, 2006 (AFP) - While much of urban

Thailand has celebrated the political demise of Prime Minister

Thaksin Shinawatra, voters in his northern home province are still

behind their man.

"I'm really sorry he stepped down," said Tassanee Samta, a

chicken vendor in a market outside the main northern city of Chiang

Mai, praising Thaksin for cheap health insurance and rural loan

schemes to help the poor.

The populist Thaksin, a business tycoon and self-styled "CEO

prime minister," on Tuesday stunned the nation when he said he would

step aside despite winning a third term in weekend elections.

His decision followed months of rallies by mostly urban

opponents who have accused Thaksin of corruption and abuse of power,

and it came only hours after he privately met the revered King

Bhumibol Adulyadej.

While Thaksin had affronted Bangkok's elite by allegedly mixing

politics and business, eroding democratic institutions and stifling

media freedom, he lavished money and infrastructure projects on the

countryside.

A common Bangkok view is that Thaksin exploited the uneducated

rural masses to cement support for his Thai Rak Thai (TRT) party.

"We each have our own reasons for or against Thaksin but I'll

still take his side," Tassanee said.

"I don't like people to put pressure on him, especially because

he's from the north, which loves him."

Loyalty runs deep in the region for Thaksin, who is depicted

here on campaign posters that show him in farmyard settings.

"I voted for the TRT because I'm from the north," said Supa

Supasil, a shopowner in the Ban Tawai woodcraft village, which has

benefited from a national product promotion and distribution scheme

Thaksin created.

"After the 1997 economic collapse, Thaksin got businesses

motivated," said the 59-year-old, adding that the government had

also upgraded the local roads she uses daily to her village, a

40-minute drive away.

"I'd like Thaksin to return, maybe in the long-term," she said.

"But it's hard to say because this is a changing point and things

aren't settled."

It wasn't just cash and roads that made Thaksin popular here.

"I voted for Thaksin because I like his policies," said snack

vendor Anongsak Tantrakool. "My favourite is the anti-drugs one," he

added, referring to a 2003 police crackdown on drug dealers that

claimed over 2,000 lives.

The wave of extra-judicial killings was condemned by human

rights groups but proved wildly popular in a country that has been

ravaged by methamphetamines known locally as ya ba or "crazy drug".

"There are fewer young people around here using ya ba now," the

39-year-old said in Lamphang province, 80 kilometres (50 miles)

southwest of Chiang Mai. "Before Thaksin, there were lots of

addicts."

In Thaksin's hometown of Sam Kamphaeng, sales assistant Janita

Anpunya said she voted for the TRT because she likes its

modernisation policies.

But the 28-year-old also said she was unsure about whether she

would want the Thai premier to return to power: "Everyone has their

limit in anything they do."

AFP 070856 GMT APR 06

[kyselak]

Thailand struggles with constitutional impasse

By Rosalind Russell

BANGKOK, April 7 (Reuters) - Thailand's ruling party wants

to invoke the "spirit" of the constitution rather than its

exact letter to break a deadlock caused by the opposition's

election boycott, Foreign Minister Kantathi Suphamongkhon said

on Friday.

However, speaking to foreign reporters two days after Prime

Minister Thaksin Shinawatra stepped aside to help solve the

crisis, he failed to explain how to get around a rule that says

parliament must be full for a government to be formed.

"None of us believe the constitution was planned to bring

deadlock to the functioning of the country," Kantathi said.

But a required first meeting of parliament within 30 days

of the April 2 election would probably not happen, he said.

"The timeframe should not be delayed by too long. We hope

that parliament can be convened within the first part of May,"

he said."The timeline remains sometime in May, or at the very,

very latest spill into June."

The three main opposition parties, led by the Democrats,

sparked the mess by boycotting Sunday's snap poll, which

Thaksin had hoped would neutralise mass street protests against

him.

By-elections are to held on April 23 in the 39 empty seats

-- 38 of which are in strong Democrat country -- but with all

three opposition parties vowing to extend their boycott, the

run-offs are unlikely to return a winner second time round.

The Democrats also lodged a complaint with the

Administrative Court arguing the by-elections were illegal

because they had been opened up to minor parties not on the

original ballot. The court made no immediate response.

In stepping down, Thaksin, 56, made much of the need for

"national reconciliation" and to avoid spoiling the 60-year

Diamond jubilee of revered King Bhumibol Adulyadej, 78, the

world's longest-reigning monarch, on June 12-13.

Analysts say his use of the "royal card" puts pressure on

the opposition to make a similarly significant gesture towards

ending the crisis before the celebrations, for which the

country has been preparing for years.

"ON A BREAK"

Thaksin, a telecoms billionaire who won Thailand's

largest-ever majority only a year ago, says he is taking a rest

from politics. Newspapers have reported he is about to head to

London with his family for a holiday.

However, he wants to retain leadership of his Thai Rak Thai

(Thais Love Thais) party, leading many of his enemies to

suspect he will still pull the strings from behind the scenes.

"Although Thaksin will no longer be the prime minister, he

is still the leader of the party and will bring in his nominee

to implement his policies, which we won't accept," said Sondhi

Limthongkul, leader of the street movement against Thaksin.

Sondhi, who accuses Thaksin of corruption, cronyism and

abuse of power, will hold another protest in front of the

golden-spired Grand Palace on Friday, although the theme will

be celebrating -- rather than urging -- his departure.

The Democrats say they will return to the parliamentary

fray only under a charter that puts more limits on the powers

of the prime minister, to stop what they call another "Thaksin

regime".

Countering such calls, Thaksin's Thai Rak Thai party said

it had already started to look into amending the 1997

constitution, already the 16th in Thailand's 74 years of

democracy.

After a brainstorming session, deputy leader Bhokin

Bhalakula said 100 Thais from all walks of life, but 20 of them

law experts, should be able to hammer out a new charter in 15

months.

"Members of the political parties should be excluded, and

when the first draft is made we will propose it to the public,"

Bhokin told reporters.

(Additional reporting by Apornrath Phoonphongphiphat)

REUTERS

071100 Apr 06

ENDOFMSG

[kyselak]

Thai protesters ready victory rally

by Griffin Shea

BANGKOK, April 7, 2006 (AFP) - Opponents of Thailand's prime

minister were to hold a victory rally Friday after forcing Thaksin

Shinawatra to step aside, despite concerns about the power he

continues to wield behind the scenes.

The People's Alliance for Democracy, which led two months of

protests to pressure Thaksin to resign, also plans to lay out new

demands to minimize his influence at a rally in central Bangkok.

The billionaire turned politician announced Tuesday he would not

accept the post of prime minister when a new parliament convenes,

even though his party won a majority of votes in last weekend's

election.

But he said he would retain his seat in parliament and keep

control of the Thai Rak Thai (TRT) party, which has led his rivals

to fear that he will continue to exert a powerful role in

government.

"I think Thaksin has a lot of power in Thailand, especially over

the economy," said Suthatip Puangket, a 31-year-old student who

supports the protests.

"I don't agree with his politics. Protests are tools for the

situation, or else no one could stand up and fight Thaksin."

Many of the activists that joined together to form the Alliance

have already announced a new campaign, ahead of Senate elections on

April 19, to urge the public to vote against candidates with links

to Thaksin.

They also say they want stronger checks to reign in the powers

of the new prime minister.

"Checks and balances mechanisms have been distorted," former

senator Jon Ungphakorn told the Bangkok Post in announcing the new

campaign.

Chidchai Vanasathidya, who is acting prime minister until

parliament opens and chooses a new one, tried to ease fears about

Thaksin's power.

"He clearly announced that he has withdrawn and will not play

any significant role. He has taken leave until a new government

forms," Chidchai told reporters.

He also insisted the new premier would not be Thaksin's puppet.

"No one would allow themselves to be prime minister in name

only. Everyone has dignity, honour and self-esteem," he said.

Polls have shown that Bangkok's population is growing weary of

the demonstrations, with some 87 percent in a survey Wednesday

saying the protests should stop.

Mass protests against Thaksin began in early February after his

family sold 1.9 billion dollars of shares in Shin Corp, the telecoms

firm he founded before entering politics, without paying taxes.

Thaksin called elections three years early to head off the

protests and give himself a fresh mandate.

But the gamble backfired when the opposition boycotted the polls

and millions of Thais cast protest abstention votes against him.

His TRT party won nearly 56 percent of the vote in Sunday's

election, with support especially strong in rural areas.

But victory was undermined by the opposition boycott and a

strong protest vote that saw 37 percent of the people cast a "no

vote" or spoiled ballots.

Thaksin said he was stepping down out of respect for revered

King Bhumibol Adulyadej, who celebrates 60 years on the throne in

June.

The events have left Thailand in uncharted political waters and

raised demands for constitutional reform to limit the influence of

the prime minister, strengthen the legislature and introduce more

checks and balances.

Foreign Minister Kantathi Suphamongkhon said the new

administration would set up a committee to propose constitutional

changes.

"We envision that the members of that committee will be

appointed in a transparent way and be neutral with the goal of real

political reform," he said.

By-elections are scheduled for 39 seats on April 23 and the

opposition Democrat Party has also threatened court challenges over

election irregularities.

The Democrats have again refused to field candidates in the

by-elections, creating a hurdle for Thaksin's party because

unopposed candidates must win at least 20 percent of the vote to

take office.

The tactic casts doubt on whether the seats will be filled and a

parliament will be in place by May 1.

AFP 070856 GMT APR 06

[ColPyat]

Guess the anti-PAD people that screamed so loud ... and then cheared for Thaksin's 'win' ... then stayed silent briefly when Thaksin resigned ... are back :-)

After the gloating seems to be finally over, i would like to draw attention to this week's "The Economist". The cover story:

A blow to Thai democracy

Interesting article on page 13...

[stumonster]

"So in the end, we have an elected politician who can remain above the law with no mechanism to deal with it -- no accountability, no responsibility. That to me is not democracy."

well said

[britmaveric]

"So in the end, we have an elected politician who can remain above the law with no mechanism to deal with it -- no accountability, no responsibility. That to me is not democracy."

well said

Unfortunately thats the reality around the world for most leaders.

[Miaow]

"So in the end, we have an elected politician who can remain above the law with no mechanism to deal with it -- no accountability, no responsibility. That to me is not democracy."

well said

Unfortunately thats the reality around the world for most leaders.

Exactly. Power has been corrupted since the beginning of times. It's rooted in us= human nature...And it's unfortunately not the PAD that will change that. Sad but true. Up to us to make changes in our daily actions..Our own personnal revolution is the best one that can change this world. Not that it will eradicate corruption and abuse, killings or repression, but it can sure make a huge difference...

[Miaow]

Sriracha john I forgot to mention your reply smacked of the self righteous.

I'm sorry if it came across that way... murderous thugs have that effect on me.

So, does that mean you spend as much time on American forums? Heard there are quite a few disgruntled Americans wanting to oust G.W. Bush and reinstore democracy there too...

Not to mention electoral fraud and extra judicial killings...Or media control...Didn't Thaksin study in the States? Sorry, just couldn't resist that one

Actually, I don't spend one minute on American forums.

I choose to devote my attention to this forum, as others in Thailand pale in comparison, to the location of where I reside, not where I go on occasion to visit.

It is where my hang my hat, it is where I live... and I wouldn't want it any other way.

This is my home... and I care a great deal about what happens to the people that share my space.

Happy Songkran to everyone.

Going off to be among the people that share my space for a couple of weeks.

Sea, Sand, and Sun.

Recharge the batteries now that mission #1 has been accomplished.

("Mission Impossible" was what many people thought)

Enjoy the celebrations... and take care of yourselves...

Peace.

/// Topic: closed?????????

Although we disagree, We sure all want the same thing at the end: To live in a better world..

Happy holidays to you too..

[Hermano Lobo]

Thaksin: The point is ladies and gentlemen that greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right. Greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of it's forms - greed for life, for money, knowledge - has marked the upward surge of mankind and greed - you mark my words - will not only save Shin Corp but that other malfunctioning corporation called Thailand. Thank you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thaksin: Greed is good.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thaksin: The most valuable commodity I know of is information.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thaksin: Greed captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Edited April 7, 2006 by Hermano Lobo

[britmaveric]

Gordon Gekko - Wall Street

[Plus]

What about millions of Thais who didn't vote this time - the turnout dropped from 72% to 60%. More likely they were "no votes" than TRT's supporters.

Overall these elections do not represent or signify anything other than the large number of "no votes" that forced Thaksin to resign. It's a

futile attempt to predict how many MPs the Opposition would have got if it didn't boycott. They would have lost lots of supporters simply for participating in Thaksin's whitewash.

New parliament (if there is one) will be disfunctional - any attempt at "shady" legislation will be met with large protests by people who don't think their MPs deserve to represent them, and there's no basis for the government to claim any legitimacy if their MPs lost to "no vote" and the public opinion is that they don't deserve the seats.

Overall, this thread has outlived itself. It should be closed and the topic continued elsewhere.

[thaibebop]

Gordon Gekko - Wall Street

Good movie!

[lukamar]

What about millions of Thais who didn't vote this time - the turnout dropped from 72% to 60%. More likely they were "no votes" than TRT's supporters.

May just have been the TRT vote that did not bother to show up too. You never know your statement is just conjecture.

Overall these elections do not represent or signify anything other than the large number of "no votes" that forced Thaksin to resign.

It signifies one thing TRT got 5 million more votes even if you give the No Vote the benefit of the doubt and throw ALL the spoiled ballots into their stack.

It's a futile attempt to predict how many MPs the Opposition would have got if it didn't boycott. They would have lost lots of supporters simply for participating in Thaksin's whitewash.

It's interesting to see the projection and then maybe the Democrats and others will realize what they lost, the Opposition.

New parliament (if there is one) will be disfunctional - any attempt at "shady" legislation will be met with large protests by people who don't think their MPs deserve to represent them, and there's no basis for the government to claim any legitimacy if their MPs lost to "no vote" and the public opinion is that they don't deserve the seats.

The government won 460 seats so far, by a majority vote. This is the largest majority in Thai history larger than the last Landslide victory. It's not TRT's fault the PAD and the ex-opposition parties misjudged the possible outcome. Having a majority in Parliament makes the government totally functional, even with one opposition MP who should be praised for the courage to run against a huge government and wins his seat, on his own merits.

[Plus]

One winning TRT candidate won less than 2% of eligible votes. There will be riots if he goes against 90% of his constituents who bothered to come and vote "no" against him.

In fact, Thaksin resignation wasn't really due to numbers - it was due to a large segment of the population (or indeed a large part of Thailand geographically) to whom Thaskin is absolutely not acceptable.

460 or 499 TRT MPs doesn't make the parliament legitimate, or representative.

Most likely they will have to call the new elections rather soon because there will be no parliament by May 1, or get royally sponsored PM until new elections can be called after Constitution reform is completed.

Everyone needs new elections now, even TRT members, but they might need some time to reposition themselves and form new parties if necessary.

Edited April 7, 2006 by Plus

[ColPyat]

What about millions of Thais who didn't vote this time - the turnout dropped from 72% to 60%. More likely they were "no votes" than TRT's supporters.

Overall these elections do not represent or signify anything other than the large number of "no votes" that forced Thaksin to resign. It's a

futile attempt to predict how many MPs the Opposition would have got if it didn't boycott. They would have lost lots of supporters simply for participating in Thaksin's whitewash.

New parliament (if there is one) will be disfunctional - any attempt at "shady" legislation will be met with large protests by people who don't think their MPs deserve to represent them, and there's no basis for the government to claim any legitimacy if their MPs lost to "no vote" and the public opinion is that they don't deserve the seats.

Overall, this thread has outlived itself. It should be closed and the topic continued elsewhere.

The 40% who did not turn out to vote did not fulfill their duty to vote, according to Thai law. Nothing else.

Calling these elections only representing the "No" vote is rather cheeky - what about the 16 million that did in fact vote for Thaksin? Or are they not part of the electorate as they voted for the wrong candidate?

[Plus]

I didn't mean 40%, I meant 12% - the difference from 72 last year and 60 this year. It means 5 million people didn't come to vote out of which 3 million didn't come to vote for TRT (down to 16 mil from 19 mil last year).

That's just to clarify the numbers. In reality, let me stress it again, Thaksin's resignation wasn't due to numbers but due to causing ever widening rift in the country.

[lukamar]

The 40% who did not turn out to vote did not fulfill their duty to vote, according to Thai law. Nothing else.

Calling these elections only representing the "No" vote is rather cheeky - what about the 16 million that did in fact vote for Thaksin? Or are they not part of the electorate as they voted for the wrong candidate?

Pyat you forgot a large majority of those 16 million were just those pesky ignorant, unproductive, stupid, uninformed, uneducated paid off, bought vote upcountry dirt-poor farmers who must not have known who they should vote for otherwise they surely would have voted No Vote so they could sink farther back into poverty. Or just maybe, this lowly lot, did know what was good for them and voted TRT.

One thing is for certain you will not see a 60% vote turnout in the North for the next election.

[seonai]

ColPyat, with respect, I think your post just now is hugely hypocritical. You seem to want to stand on the fence. And yet post antagonistic points to get others upset! Forgive me in advance if I am wrong.