Pm Thaksin Resigns

[lukamar]

From my experience I find that bilingual Thais will, while speaking in Thai, often say things in English and then back to Thai again for the simple reason it can be easier for them to explain something that way.

I have to agree with you on this. My wife is now very comfortable in English and when she talks to her sister, who has an English degree, they talk a strange combination of Northern and English. They throw in enough English that you could probably follow the conversation if you did not speak Northern. When she speaks to her mother she speaks a combination of Northern and Issan. Her father is educated but mainly speaks northern with only the odd English word thrown in probably because his friends and neighbors don't use a lot of English words in everyday speech, although they understand a lot of English, but not enough to carry on a conversation.

My wife explained the use of English exactly the same way. That some words do not translate well into Thai so they use English. It also goes the other way when she is talking in English, sometimes she struggles to explain something and throws in the Thai word.

[ColPyat]

Phi-jai Colpyat (what does your name mean? Thai?)

that's well observed and very true of course, but this was of course not the goal for my comment.

My goal was to show how TRT is doing politics in a vast manner, without long-term goals, only short-term bank account filling self-purpose and well commented also by PLUS above in a more direct sense rapport what is going on here.

You as TRT supporter as far I read some of your previous postings (or criticer of all Anti Thaksin people whatever is your main stand, which of course is your right, and some of your points were well commented too), what is your future prediction for the TRT's now? Do you think they will follow their leaders promise to invite people from all walks of life to amend the constitution?? I rather think they will try to use this situation to create a 1-3 year only TRT house, which is of course a bit worrying for the future of Thailand, i suppose. Full in gread of the current situation, that the opposition didn't agree to those self-arranged selfserving (trying to bring the allegations under the carpet) Snap-Erections? (Elections).

Do you personally think this Snap Elections were a good thing for anyone or any case?

Your Nong-Jai Sushiman

My handle is not Thai at all, it's a homage to one of my favourite novelists, main figure of his recently finished novel in four sequels with the most excentric, out there, tragicomical antihero in literature i am aware of. While registering i just read that last book i have waited for nearly a decade.

I am as far from TRT supporter as you can imagine. That is one of the reasons why i distrust the PAD, or whatever they call themselves now. The leading open figures of the PAD, Sondhi and Chamlong, were both TRT, especially while Thaksin has done the worst damage, them two have supported his policies fully. They don't come from any corner that i would remotely call "democratic". I see them as more right wing, more xenophobic, than Thaksin, a conglomerate of vested interests that are typical of the prevaling system. Their followers are to the most part urban middle classes who have very little understanding about the problems of the rural poor, neither much interest in them.

And i have seen regular visitors behind the stage that i wonder really why they possibly could be welcomed that friendly by a organisation that tries to "clean up" the system. People like Sanoh Tienthong...

Anyhow, any future prediction on TRT from my side is pure speculation. I do not have any high level contacts to TRT. I would wonder if they, at the present moment, actually know what is going to happen.

One thing i do know though for certain is, that the army is on stand by, waiting for orders. The longer the mess goes on, the bigger the chance that someone might step in.

The snap elections were IMHO a momentarily pragmatic move to stop TRT MPs from following Chamlong, who holds considerable influence with the nationalist religious right wing of the TRT, in deserting the party.

Good? Not much in politics, and Thai politics in particular, would fall under what i personally define as "good". It is just powerstruggles, and decisions made along strategic and pragmantic lines, that sometimes might be beneficial for the population, and often only to the people in the game.

[Plus]

Well, Colpyat, do you think there should be a separate thread on PAD's background and motives?

We can look at what Sondhi was saying in 2003, and where was Chamlong, and wether your accusations are true to any extent.

Also we can discuss other PAD leaders, and why Sanoh is welcomed there, and who of PAD leaders are using PAD to start their own political career.

We can also discuss the degree of xenophobia in PAD ranks, and the level of interest in rural lives by Bangkok middle class.

I think my personal opinions on all these issues are different from yours, but this thread, like many others, is not the place to discuss these things - they are off topic here.

[ColPyat]

I think my personal opinions on all these issues are different from yours, but this thread, like many others, is not the place to discuss these things - they are off topic here.

Off topic?

I believe these things are more uncomfortable topic than off topic.

May i remind you - this thread is about Thaksin's resignation, and the background of the main figures of the PAD are as much topic as Thaksin.

Well, unless the topic of the thread is gloating about Thaksin's resignation, and some poster's repeated support that was voiced in this thread on continuing the demonstrations.

[sushiman]

My handle is not Thai at all, it's a homage to one of my favourite novelists, main figure of his recently finished novel in four sequels with the most excentric, out there, tragicomical antihero in literature i am aware of. While registering i just read that last book i have waited for nearly a decade.

I am as far from TRT supporter as you can imagine. That is one of the reasons why i distrust the PAD, or whatever they call themselves now. The leading open figures of the PAD, Sondhi and Chamlong, were both TRT, especially while Thaksin has done the worst damage, them two have supported his policies fully. They don't come from any corner that i would remotely call "democratic". I see them as more right wing, more xenophobic, than Thaksin, a conglomerate of vested interests that are typical of the prevaling system. Their followers are to the most part urban middle classes who have very little understanding about the problems of the rural poor, neither much interest in them.

And i have seen regular visitors behind the stage that i wonder really why they possibly could be welcomed that friendly by a organisation that tries to "clean up" the system. People like Sanoh Tienthong...

Anyhow, any future prediction on TRT from my side is pure speculation. I do not have any high level contacts to TRT. I would wonder if they, at the present moment, actually know what is going to happen.

One thing i do know though for certain is, that the army is on stand by, waiting for orders. The longer the mess goes on, the bigger the chance that someone might step in.

The snap elections were IMHO a momentarily pragmatic move to stop TRT MPs from following Chamlong, who holds considerable influence with the nationalist religious right wing of the TRT, in deserting the party.

Good? Not much in politics, and Thai politics in particular, would fall under what i personally define as "good". It is just powerstruggles, and decisions made along strategic and pragmantic lines, that sometimes might be beneficial for the population, and often only to the people in the game.

Nice maybe I.ll have a go at your book tip and nice to hear that you don't fully support this party,

which doesn't make sense to me.

For your other lines, I think you've been informed about Thai Politics many years more than me, and of course people staying here longer, they tend to give up more quickly for "any" try with a less corrupt Thailand as it seams to be going on here for centuries (as all around here in South-East Asia). Why give up? As you might say, noone is perfect, so why not support the ones going a more clean direction and look at the group as a whole.

I also don't agree with you that the people of the middle-class don't want to understand the problems of the poor or the fellow country people. It's not about TRT politics in the bin 100% and change everything 100%. It's about eliminating the bad things what's going on, and of course that good things can be changed or old good actions can continue to flurish.

I've spoking with many of those middle-class (my friends etc.) and they just want Thailand to become a more Westernized Democracy (most countries in Europe have a good system I hope I'm allowed to say here) with less corruption, that's it. And a demonstration is a legal right, and as long they do it in civiliced and peacful manner, what's your problem with that? You prefer to have long-term wrong politics, with big corruptions, or some people meeting on the streets (any problems so far with that, besides some traffic jams?) on the way for a better Thailand?

So why not take the goodies from the TRT (helping the poor, if they ever really meant it from their heart, and if their loans and 30THB-program etc. actually will ever help the purpose etc. etc. But clearly OTOP etc. were good things too, agree!) and mix with a more open, not one-man controlled , less corrupt goverment ruling party, e.g. the Democrats which can be joined of course by some ex TRT's or even a new party coming up, and bring out of of this one-man-one party mess here and now!

TRT Thaksin was also riding on good pre-works (as I read many times) which was done by Mr. Chuan Leekpai (hope I spell right) Democrats ruling before Thaksing took over. So history could turn this time in favour for the Democrats, but of course because the others where to greedy, that's their own mistake, and people don't want to buy this anymore. I fully understand them!

The politicians up there, they have to understand, that politics in Thailand will change for sure, no matter what the outcome will be in the short-term this time. In the long-term also thanks to technologiues like Internet etc. it will become more difficult to betray peoples and more and more Thai's study abroad and bring back home some good stuff (also bad of course). Ying and Yang everywhere.

Or we will give up and start to live like in Belarus now, which is step backwards in time and fair and open politics of course.

That's all we want, a try for the better, and no matter what history Sondhi, Chamlong had, I personally believe them, that they "now" don't want to benefit themselves, but they truely believe in their cause. If this is wrong, than it doesn't matter me to much also, as they don't want to be involved in doing politics, but just helping to clean up. That doesn't mean the people who attend there and watch ASTV Live Online in desparation of some honest news, compared to the filtered Goverment controlled Pulic TV Stations, are all wrong. Right? You think 10-11 Million No Votes, they all don't care about their country fellow mens? Many of them in the country side seeing through the golden curtains, are just thinking exactly the same by the way. It's not about country or urban ideas, it's about overall state-controlled TV Stations (and therefore opinions on certain matters) and corruption or not.

So why don't you just see the movement a bit more from a global perspective and stop pin-pointing to the history of some of those leaders. Listen to the voice of 10-11 Millions, and others too stop calling them mobbers, a bit naiv I think. Soon there will be the half of Thailand on the streets, if TRT's continue in old manners, what then? Who is to blaim, the mobbers? ...come on!

By the way they are 8 and not only 3 your mentioned and will be soon 11 PAD leaders. What about the rest, all bad minded too? And if you didn't noticed yet, everyone was invited to speak up stage for many months, so it's not a controlled minded movement with dictatoral rules pushed from above. The opposite. TRT could learn a lot, to listen to more people than only one man and his closest friends.

I think they they are doing a noble hard job and I truely believe so that Thailand in the middle to longterm will benefit from their pre-work and trying to clean-up procedure.

This is of course disbutable and we can't read peoples mind, but overall what the PAD is doing is

not trying to kick out "all" politicians, but try a better way with less corruption that's all. Of course heavy corruption should be punished as the laws should say so, right?

See also the Thaksins promises he made in order to let his critics try to feel relaxed now. Let's wait and see if they will do what they claim they will do to change this "uncontrolled" power of them!

ok more later, good night folks

Edited April 8, 2006 by sushiman

[ColPyat]

My handle is not Thai at all, it's a homage to one of my favourite novelists, main figure of his recently finished novel in four sequels with the most excentric, out there, tragicomical antihero in literature i am aware of. While registering i just read that last book i have waited for nearly a decade.

I am as far from TRT supporter as you can imagine. That is one of the reasons why i distrust the PAD, or whatever they call themselves now. The leading open figures of the PAD, Sondhi and Chamlong, were both TRT, especially while Thaksin has done the worst damage, them two have supported his policies fully. They don't come from any corner that i would remotely call "democratic". I see them as more right wing, more xenophobic, than Thaksin, a conglomerate of vested interests that are typical of the prevaling system. Their followers are to the most part urban middle classes who have very little understanding about the problems of the rural poor, neither much interest in them.

And i have seen regular visitors behind the stage that i wonder really why they possibly could be welcomed that friendly by a organisation that tries to "clean up" the system. People like Sanoh Tienthong...

Anyhow, any future prediction on TRT from my side is pure speculation. I do not have any high level contacts to TRT. I would wonder if they, at the present moment, actually know what is going to happen.

One thing i do know though for certain is, that the army is on stand by, waiting for orders. The longer the mess goes on, the bigger the chance that someone might step in.

The snap elections were IMHO a momentarily pragmatic move to stop TRT MPs from following Chamlong, who holds considerable influence with the nationalist religious right wing of the TRT, in deserting the party.

Good? Not much in politics, and Thai politics in particular, would fall under what i personally define as "good". It is just powerstruggles, and decisions made along strategic and pragmantic lines, that sometimes might be beneficial for the population, and often only to the people in the game.

Nice maybe I.ll have a go at your book tip and nice to hear that you don't fully support this party,

which doesn't make sense to me.

For your other lines, I think you've been informed about Thai Politics many years more than me, and of course people staying here longer, the tend to give up more quickly for "any" try with a less corrupt Thailand as it seams to be going on here for centuries (as all around here in South-East Asia). Why give up? As you might say, noone is perfect, so why not support the ones going a more clean direction and look at the group as a whole.

I also don't agree with you that the people of the middle-class don't understand (or want to) the problems of the poor or the fellow country people. It's not about TRT politics in the bin 100% or chane everything 100%. It's about eliminating the bad things what are going on.

I've spoking with many of those middle-class (my friends etc.) and they just want Thailand to become a more Westernized Democracy (most countries in Europe have a good system I hope I'm allowed to say here) with less corruption, that's it.

So why not take the goodies from the TRT (helping the poor, if they every really meant it from their heart, and if their loans and 30THB-program etc. actually will ever help the purpose etc. etc. But clearly OTOP etc. were good things, agree!) and mix with a fair less corrupt goverment ruler, e.g. the Democrats. TRT Thaksin was also riding on good pre-works (as I read many times) which was done by Mr. Chuan Leekpai (hope I spell right) Democrats ruling before Thaksing took over.

So history could turn this time in favor for the Democrats, but of course because the others where to greedy, that's their own mistake, and people don't want to buy this anymore. I fully understand them!

The big boys up their, they have to understand, that politics in Thailand will change for sure, no matter what the outcome will be in the short-term. In the long-term also thanks to technologiues like Internet etc. it will become more difficult to betray peoples and more and more Thai's study abroad and bring back home some good stuff (also bad of course). Ying and Yang everywhere.

That's all we want, a try for the better, and no matter what history Sondhi, Chamlong had, I personally believe them, that they "now" don't want to benefit themselves, but they truely believe in their cause. If this is wrong, than it doesn't matter me at all, as they don't want to be involved

in doing politics, but just helping to clean up. That doesn't mean the people who attend there and

watch ASTV Live Online in desparation of some honest news, compared to the filtered Goverment controlled Pulic TV Stations, are all wrong. Right?

So why don't you just see the movement a bit more from a global perspective and stop pin-pointing to the history of some of those leaders. By the way they are 8 and will be soon 11, what about the rest, all bad minded too? I don't think so, they are doing a noble job I truely believe so?

And Thailand in the middle to longterm will benefit from their pre-work and trying to clean up procedure.

This is of course disbutable and we can't read peoples mind, but overall what the PAD is doing is

not trying to kick out "all" politicians, but try a better way with less corruption that's all. Of course heavy corruption should be punished.

See also the Thaksins promises he made in order to let his critics try to feel relaxed now. Let's wait and see if they will do what they claim they will do to change this "uncontrolled" power of them!

ok more later, good night folks

I don't give up, i just believe that positive change is a matter of decades, and not one or two legislative periods. I believe that positive change will come when upcountry people are stabilised enough, so that their children have a chance to finish school, to get a profession that might take them out of the poverty trap. That is what i am working for. I have no time for urban middle class demonstrations that disturb the social peace, that bring even more frictures into Thai society.

The experience of life of the urban based middle classes is completely removed from the rual poor. Your friends talk about a more western democracy. Nice, but while they talk about that, i have to deal with girls, that i saw growing up, disappearing into prostitution, have to find ways to get a future to people who had to scavage for food in the forest over most months of the year because they did not have enough money to buy enough rice. And when they had money, they have spent it on drugs to forget the hopeless situation they were in. And the related problems such a massive rate of HIV infection are only starting now to be visible.

In addition to that, large parts of the urban poor disappear slowly into a urban nightmare of violence and gang warfare.

This is the experience of the vast majority of Thais. Most of my Thai friends and family are part of those sectors.

This is not just TRT - Thailand, but an accumulation of decades of mismanaging the country. TRT did their own part in worsening the situation with their populist scemes that did not come from a true will to improve Thailand's problems (even though i have my suspicions that Thaksin in his megalomania honestly believed that he is the only man with a solution). The previous Democrat government, even though IMHO far better than TRT, and all the other governments, did nothing to improve the immediate problems of the rural poor. If they would have done something we would not sit here and debate Thaksin. Thaksin's rise in politics is a result of the failures of the previous governments.

Thaksin's resignation as a result of demonstrations and not elections will make it far harder for the next non-TRT government to win the trust of the rural poor. Even though their trust in Thaksin was misplaced, they were for the first time to some extend part of a democratic system.

I believe that part of empowering the people, and part of developing a stable democracy is allowing them to make their own mistakes, and learn from those mistakes their own, for an emerging democracy necessary lessons. These mainly rural poor supporting Thaksin were not given the chance to learn from their mistakes.

In the long term, the demonstrations were counterproductive. They have only worsened the split between urban middle classes and rural poor. Instead of understanding that Thaksin's populist policies will be harmful for them, they have learned that the urban middle classes have more power through demonstrations than they have through voting. This is not "People Power" - it is elitist power over the majority of the people.

The set up of Thai society is far more complex, and especially at the top and lowest levels still archaic clanpolitics, than the relatively small sector of urban middle classes. The country cannot develop if those rural poor are left behind by the urban middle classes. This way the rural poor will only be open to the manipulations of the vested interests, and in the end the middle classes will only loose out as all will.

I believe that these demonstrations resulted in a huge set back for the development of Thailand's democracy in the long term. And i am not alone in this believe. Read this week's cover story of the Economist: A blow to Thai democracy

[Plus]

elieve these things are more uncomfortable topic than off topic.

May i remind you - this thread is about Thaksin's resignation, and the background of the main figures of the PAD are as much topic as Thaksin.

Well, unless the topic of the thread is gloating about Thaksin's resignation, and some poster's repeated support that was voiced in this thread on continuing the demonstrations.

I believe our few exchanges on Chamlong and PAD (and chess) were removed from a topic that was as relevant as this one.

At this point I think Thaksin's resigantion thread is close to be closed.

[ColPyat]

elieve these things are more uncomfortable topic than off topic.

May i remind you - this thread is about Thaksin's resignation, and the background of the main figures of the PAD are as much topic as Thaksin.

Well, unless the topic of the thread is gloating about Thaksin's resignation, and some poster's repeated support that was voiced in this thread on continuing the demonstrations.

I believe our few exchanges on Chamlong and PAD (and chess) were removed from a topic that was as relevant as this one.

At this point I think Thaksin's resigantion thread is close to be closed.

And i believe that only now it starts getting interesting. After pages of infantile gloating we slowly start being able to actually analyse the situation in an intelligent adult manner. And as Thaksin's resignation is still a highly disputed topic, not only in Thailand's real life, but also on this board here, i hope the thread stays open.

[sushiman]

reply to above Colpyat: Today, 2006-04-09 02:26:49

Interesting your feedback, which I can understand too. I think most of points of views depend on where and with who you life too. As I mentioned above, for all of us we have to try to understand all sides (left, right, middle and the factions in between) and try to look from above.

I will try to find your article, but already now I'm sceptical as it was written by some foreign media quick visitor? Basically I prefer to read local English newspapers, which are normally written by Thai professionals who life here, and get more stories directly in their own language.

Just one last note as you say:

" I believe that these demonstrations resulted in a huge set back for the development of Thailand's democracy in the long term"

I think you are totally wrong here, as already the semi-removal from Thaksin was a small success for itself, and is very well a great thing for the country. You have the choice, wait for centuries for change until you are dead, or do it at the right time, when the wrong actions where called for those measures, and benefit in the medium-term. Of course I agree with you, it can't be done within weeks or so. Nobody what's that too.

Democracy is also not a thing with stuporn rules etc. It's the people who rule and the poeple who vote, and this should be all people, with their leaders, and not only 1 leader. This bad top thing is gone, thanks also to the demonstrations. Or not? No achievment in your eyes? He was stamping on deomcracy and clearly not vice-versa. I don't get this particular point of yours, you seam to be afraid of change, and think only TRT can prospere this country? Others could do too, I believe or together in a new constilation or even new party, why not.

So the people should change for the good cause. Even TRT members could be part of it, as the main unflexible boss is gone, and the party could also change for the good, if they want. But they have to get rid of their reputation, and that only can be done with less talk and more action for the good.

Good night,

would be better to talk with a drink somewhere, hey?

But nice you replied my questions, thanks

Nong-jai Sushiman

PS/ Yes agree, why they always close the topics if matter still hot? There where 3 hot topics (Elections, I will not resign, I will resign) and they all lead up to here (read on it says) and now this one should be closed too? Why?

Keep them open as long people reply and the topic is still hot (e.g. the election results are not out yet officially and the ongoing fraud claims with them are also hot to talk about) if you can, and Thaksin is way far from really gone, right?

Edited April 8, 2006 by sushiman

[ColPyat]

Democracy is also not a thing. It's the people who rule and the poeple who vote, and this should be all people, with their leaders, and not only 1 leader. This bad thing is gone, thanks also to the demonstrations. Or not? No achievment in your eyes?

I don't get this particualr point of yours, you seam to be afraid of change, and think only TRT can prospere this country? Others could do too, I believe.

To make it brief, this is the point.

It is the people who vote, all people. They people have voted, but Thaksin was ousted not by the vote, but by demonstrations. A bit more time should have been given, and people most likely would have voted him out of office.

Demonstrations would have been justified during the terrible two months of drug war killings in 2003. But they did not happen at that time. Which is more than an indicator of the true democratic depth of the PAD and their followers, and the whole Thai population. The vast majority of Thais supported the extrajudical killings of several thousand accused drug dealers, and even during the demonstrations now this massacre did not play a large role at all.

The upholding of human rights and due process is essential to a modern, western and stable democracy. But this has not exactly filtered through here in Thailand.

[lukamar]

My vote is to keep the thread open it's finally getting interesting.

[sushiman]

Democracy is also not a thing. It's the people who rule and the poeple who vote, and this should be all people, with their leaders, and not only 1 leader. This bad thing is gone, thanks also to the demonstrations. Or not? No achievment in your eyes?

I don't get this particualr point of yours, you seam to be afraid of change, and think only TRT can prospere this country? Others could do too, I believe.

To make it brief, this is the point.

It is the people who vote, all people. They people have voted, but Thaksin was ousted not by the vote, but by demonstrations. A bit more time should have been given, and people most likely would have voted him out of office.

Demonstrations would have been justified during the terrible two months of drug war killings in 2003. But they did not happen at that time. Which is more than an indicator of the true democratic depth of the PAD and their followers, and the whole Thai population. The vast majority of Thais supported the extrajudical killings of several thousand accused drug dealers, and even during the demonstrations now this massacre did not play a large role at all.

The upholding of human rights and due process is essential to a modern, western and stable democracy. But this has not exactly filtered through here in Thailand.

Fair point too, but clearly sorry again, the vote was bought off with wrong hope and promises and actions which as I read in many newspapers, are a short-term fix to buy votes again for the next election. These people will in the medium-term be happy to see that a more moderate but more realistic approach will hopefully come into their lives.

What are you going to tell the first 10'000farmers who were standing in front of SCB (Siam Comerical Bank) and complaining about the money the couldn't pay back, which was quickly available under Thaksin idea (which more I believe was his idea to

1. Gain Votes

2. and get them use more cash for his and his cronies friends companies nothing more.

Maybe you also have to learn to sacrifice short-term benefits (and votes) in terms of more understanding long term solutions than lies and wrong promises made to the country people.

Again honesty and reall efforts will pay off, not wrong illusioned solutions from Billionaires

from the top. The country people they know their place best, they should have a better

voice in the goverment too, and not believe all what the charming big mouth (yes he's

speaches has charm I believe) is telling them.

Yes, yes I know some stuff were good too (OTOP) etc. as I said before, we need a change with a mix of real help and assistance for the poor and non-urban population (also in regard of the ecological situation, which under Thaksin also was forgotten) with

- good old TRT ideas

- and new coming back honest Democrat

ideas.

Don't worry to much, the new ones will not fail more, rather less then this old still current in power clique I trueley believe. Give change a chance!

More hope, Colpyat I wish for you and your otherwise good arguments and point of views, which are based I believe on years of good observations

and lving in thailand.

Good night

talk to u later!

Sushiman

Edited April 8, 2006 by sushiman

[sushiman]

Democracy is also not a thing. It's the people who rule and the poeple who vote, and this should be all people, with their leaders, and not only 1 leader. This bad thing is gone, thanks also to the demonstrations. Or not? No achievment in your eyes?

I don't get this particualr point of yours, you seam to be afraid of change, and think only TRT can prospere this country? Others could do too, I believe.

The vast majority of Thais supported the extrajudical killings of several thousand accused drug dealers, and even during the demonstrations now this massacre did not play a large role at all.

The upholding of human rights and due process is essential to a modern, western and stable democracy. But this has not exactly filtered through here in Thailand.

Very good point, but if you have been here in the city during this time, you also heared the people screaming and shouting for a stop with that non-sense, the way he again told a clear deadline to achieve his goal by force. TRT again with deadlines...not the best marriage ) ..., all have to follow and no more long-term plan (again) was wanted or in hand.

And I can not agree with you more, the outrage should have been already actually then much bigger, but there were already then a clear opposition and opinions vissible in the more freeer media and among urban population comments as I noticed.

But maybe also this will be against your will, if you agree with me, Thai's can't go to the streets for every matter, and the recent Shin postbox deal (remember him saying: Thais should have their capital in there own country?) was just the i point and the final thing, which made the glass full, also in regard to that matter with the drug-war, Tsunamie-, Bird-flu, Media-, Humanrights, Muslims-handling etc etc. too I believe. Also the drug-war was for the good goal also maybe less a topic, than the drug problem was really an urgent matter to try to solve (is it now?) and don't also forget the many dead people where not counted for on the local TV stations too, so not many even got noticed the bad TRT action news (as many times) as far as I can remember. It was terrible yes, as also I read, more people were killed during those days here, than in the whole Iraque war during the invasion! But also CNN/BCC etc. had during these days their eyes unfortunatelly only in Bagdhad and not here at all.

I guess the news trippled more or less out, many months later (to the majority of Thais). ....it's important to know that also the now more widley available Internet has changed a lot in Thai politics and will do so more in the future, and during those times not many people had access....

FREE AND AVAILABLE POLITICALLY UNCONTROLLED MEDIA IS THE KEY WORD for success for Thai future politics. I guess, any other opinons about that?

Some friends of mine claim Thailand is still to young for a real open democracy, as e.g. also in China and simlar standard countries, many experts claim, that countries with a big rural population (and the education is not top), basically maybe are even better off with one-man parties? A big question mark also for myself after thinking about it now. But of course these parties shouldn't be over corrupt! So still Thaksin was rightly removed, I guess.

I see better times for Thailand, I'm optimistic!

Edited April 8, 2006 by sushiman

[ColPyat]

Fair point too, but clearly sorry again, the vote was bought off with wrong hope and promises and actions which as I read in many newspapers, are a short-term fix to buy votes again for the next election. These people will in the medium-term be happy to see that a more moderate but more realistic approach will hopefully come into their lives.

Where in the world are votes not bought by cheap promises building up wrong hope?

I wish that Thaksin would have still been in office having himself to explain those farmers who defaulted on their loans why they lose their land. Unfortunately now, when this is going to happen, and it will happen, Thaksin has the perfect excuse - he can blame the PAD and people will believe him. That way he has a great door to return to power.

Regarding the drug war, the first month the death toll was counted in public, only then Thaksin ordered not to give out the numbers anymore. Still though, on TV the reality of corpses was shown every day many times during the news.

Comparatively few people shouted to stop the madness. The Nation was rather vocal. What stopped the killings rapidly was that after the second month the national human rights commission started to make a stink. As far as i can remember there was not one single demonstration here against the massacre.

Drugs were, and still are, a huge problem in Thailand. The killings though were horrific, and in the long run counterproductive in solving the problem.

And, yes, the international media was preoccupied with the impending Irak war. Don't forget - the media is a busines. As far as i can remember the invasion happened sometime during the killings here.

And yes, the amount of victims in the drugwar was huge - my personal guess based on conversations with police and army personel, and even the head of one deathsquad, is about 4000 to 5000 dead.

[sushiman]

Colpayt date='2006-04-09 03:41:01' post='709784'

ColPyat

Where in the world are votes not bought by cheap promises building up wrong hope?

ColPyat

****come on in many countries people believe in their ideas, not like here maybe was the case, or even sometimes I think Thaksin want's to do all things at the same time:

- Help the people but also cash in etc. etc.

- Like now: He's off to enjoy his money now, but still want's to stay in power...

I think that man has to much power and a confused mind, with to many evil- and angel-like ideas

at the same time. I guess it's clearly time for a less spectacular more modest leader for this country. And e.g. I believe what Abhisit says, but of course you are also right; people have to also consider what they say, so the votes will be ok, but this are clearly with many people also in line with their words. But mostly not with Thaksin who used to talk first, and then think too (another big problem of his). Why you think he had to clear his mind every Saturday or Sunday Morning on his talkshow, I guess he has to many personallities inside of him, and want's to do all on his own, which of course is bound to failure, for sure. A radio-show with a monologue talk was his weeekly therapist.

ColPyat

I wish that Thaksin would have still been in office having himself to explain those farmers who defaulted on their loans why they lose their land. Unfortunately now, when this is going to happen, and it will happen, Thaksin has the perfect excuse - he can blame the PAD and people will believe him. That way he has a great door to return to power.

ColPyat

*** Well I guess the people are not so stupid, depends how the approach and the ideas will be

Why you always have to see so black everywhere?? Do you work for a Aid company, and

are surrounded by misery all the time? Just curiouse?

ColPyat

Regarding the drug war, the first month the death toll was counted in public, only then Thaksin ordered not to give out the numbers anymore. Still though, on TV the reality of corpses was shown every day many times during the news.

Comparatively few people shouted to stop the madness. The Nation was rather vocal. What stopped the killings rapidly was that after the second month the national human rights commission started to make a stink. As far as i can remember there was not one single demonstration here against the massacre.

Drugs were, and still are, a huge problem in Thailand. The killings though were horrific, and in the long run counterproductive in solving the problem.

And, yes, the international media was preoccupied with the impending Irak war. Don't forget - the media is a busines. As far as i can remember the invasion happened sometime during the killings here.

And yes, the amount of victims in the drugwar was huge - my personal guess based on conversations with police and army personel, and even the head of one deathsquad, is about 4000 to 5000 dead.

ColPyat

*** Ah you were better informed I see, terrible yes and I guess a protest on the streets,

should have been done, your right. But wait a moment, do you want the people to go demonstrate

or not? Here you are not clear? For you it's a danger for the country. I think it's a big step forwards for the country, if the people stand up against corruption and are allowed to say what they think (contrary puplic TV).

Anyhow of course you have your opinion and some I also agree, and it was nice sharing them with you tonight. I really have to go dodo, orelse the first sunshine coming up soon will not let me sleep

Nice talking to you

Cheers & maybe another day more

cheerio Colpyat!

Edited April 8, 2006 by sushiman

[ando]

Its interesting that some people see the low interest loans to the poor farmers in Issarn as vote buying. In the past people who couldn't get a loan from the banks had no other finance option but to sell their daughters into prostitution or borrow money from the money lenders, AKA loan sharks who charged very high interest rates, (up to 10% per month). In some of the scams that used to operate, when the farmer became hopelessly in debt the shark would either forclose the morgage or offer a deal of indentured servitude for the farmers daughters in a Thai brothel. Some people will always get into trouble repaying loans regardless of interest rate. But you can be certain that a lot more farmers and their families are a lot better off dealing with cheap government sponsored loans than they were dealing with the loan sharks.

[Jai Dee]

The Democrat Party's anti-graft committee is checking the unusual wealth of Pol.Lt.-Col. Thaksin

Caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra may rejoice at life after his stepping aside from politics, but his pleasure may be less if he learns that the former Opposition Democrat Party is initiating a move to inspect his unusual wealth.

Police Lieutenant Colonel Thaksin said after a round of golf yesterday he had never imagined that the past three days without politics would give him such a happiness. He described his feeling by saying 'It's like being human again'.

The anti-graft committee of the Democrat Party, meanwhile, started inspecting the unusual wealth of the Prime Minister and his family. Chairman of the committee Alongkorn Pollabutr (อลงกรณ์ พลบุตร) said the inspection will cover both Thaksin I and Thaksin II governments, with its resulted to be concluded in one week.

Under the constitution and the National Counter Corruption Commission Act, it is a legal offence if one has unusual wealth earned through policy corruption or use political power to influence administrative policy in a way that benefits personal gains. Mr. Alongkorn said besides that the Party will also conduct inspection into possible corruption of Mrs. Yaowapha Wongsawad (เยาวภา วงศ์สวัสดิ์), a sister of Pol. Lt.-Col. Thaksin, and her family. The examination will take about 2 weeks, after which results of the inspection will be submitted to the National Counter Corruption Commission.

The NCCC is however not in existence at the moment. The Democrat Party therefore called on the NCCC selection committee and the caretaker Senate to expedite the selection of NCCC board, as required by the Constitution and related organic laws.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 09 April 2006

[ando]

Apart from the mud slinging and setting themselves up as the nations watchdog on corruption by selected people, do the democrats actually have any policies? Negative politics will always swing a small percentage of voters anywhere, but in the end most people vote for actual policies which they see as beneficial to themselves.

Most Thais accept that just about all figures of authority (except the king) are corrupt in some way. And smart people like Thaksin usually cover their tracks pretty well, so any corruption findings by his sworn enemies will probably just end up as a prolonged debate over some technical points of law. The same news day in and day out wears a bit thin after months and years. I cant see the democrats gaining any conclusive victory in their single minded obsession with destroying Thaksin. I seriously doubt an anti-corruption platform alone would be enough to swing the majority of Thai voters. Asking the Thai voters to vote for ideals that may benefit the country in the long run as opposed to policies that benefit them directly at a local level is not going to woo the majority of Thai voters who are poor and in need results now.

It appears the democrats figure that if they cut off the head of the snake TRT will fall apart and they will take up the power vacumn by default.

[penzman]

The Democrat Party's anti-graft committee is checking the unusual wealth of Pol.Lt.-Col. Thaksin

Caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra may rejoice at life after his stepping aside from politics, but his pleasure may be less if he learns that the former Opposition Democrat Party is initiating a move to inspect his unusual wealth.

Police Lieutenant Colonel Thaksin said after a round of golf yesterday he had never imagined that the past three days without politics would give him such a happiness. He described his feeling by saying 'It's like being human again'.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 09 April 2006

And exactly what were you before becoming "human" again?

[quikia]

This is the first time, I see two requests for this thread to be closed. On the contrary, I find this thread getting more interesting. I second the proposal to keep it opened.

[sushiman]

Its interesting that some people see the low interest loans to the poor farmers in Issarn as vote buying. In the past people who couldn't get a loan from the banks had no other finance option but to sell their daughters into prostitution or borrow money from the money lenders, AKA loan sharks who charged very high interest rates, (up to 10% per month). In some of the scams that used to operate, when the farmer became hopelessly in debt the shark would either forclose the morgage or offer a deal of indentured servitude for the farmers daughters in a Thai brothel. Some people will always get into trouble repaying loans regardless of interest rate. But you can be certain that a lot more farmers and their families are a lot better off dealing with cheap government sponsored loans than they were dealing with the loan sharks.

Nice post, and good reminder, certainly has it's point too:

Qte

Its interesting that some people see the low interest loans to the poor farmers in Issarn as vote buying.

Unquote

I think from the point of the initiater most probably yes, but from the point of the receiving party, you are right, but I think only the loans make sense, if they are given and spend well. Do you think this was the case (as TRT policies quite often go in a speedy manner, for speedy results?) if so it was a good thing, for sure.

What I don't know:

- How many loans where given under certain circumstances which made sense to give them? and how many of them where successfull loans wth a prosperous return for the lender?

- or how many lenders, are in a bigger problems now (because they maybe spend the loans on

fast enjoyment, like mobile phones, motorbikes etc. instead of investing them) as clearly some of them can't pay the money back now, right?

I think the overall figures which one of the above is more the case, can easy determine, if the idea was "done well" or not. That would be interesting to know. Do the TRT even or ever look back to their own politics and declare oppenely what failed and what was successfull? I clearly only get one side of the story, from this party. Unfortunatelly.

And this combined with state media entreprises control, makes them such a dangerous thing for the long-term for Thailand. Clear lack of checks in this current goverment.

But your point that Thaksin got rid of many money sharks and other mafia-style like organistations in this country, is a plus point for him and was great for sure.

But does this give him the right to do similar corrupt actions, but just on a much bigger scale? And again here, as with the loans etc. , it's not only the subject (the loans or the deals, what counts), it's very important to understand the reason, why such things happen and how they have been initiated and the result of them. Ethics and morals are to be included too.

Just bringing good ideas, and not helping the people to use them correctly is in my ideas not good enough. And just shows sometimes the real lack of honest commitments for their own ideas, which in the end should result in prosperous times for all, and not only some huge profits for a view back in Bangkok.

Are there any loan stats around? and if not, why are they not been shown? I guess there are but not from TRT, but I guess the Bank of Thailand already made some comments and stats about this, which are rather mind boggeling warnings, compared to the much lower hurra cheers from some lenders (of course some used it wisely, but did the most do?).

How and if they were told to use them wisely or not, this is what you maybe know more than I do?

Were there any restrictions, or is true as many newspapers claim, that the money flow was to easy openned? No banks in any other country normally just give loans for no reasons. If this was done here, I think everyone with a small brain, can guess about the results coming up or are already on the table.

More details anyone?

Edited April 9, 2006 by sushiman

[sushiman]

Back to Thaksin Resignment and his own initiated Snap Elections (did he even consult someone in his party to do so?), which now others have to clear the mess for him. Maybe that was his plan all along, to try to bring the allegation claims under the carpet, get his party re-elected and than buzz off with the cash and pull the strings from behind in good spirit with 16 Million voters backing him?:

Election mess continues after his resignment

Source by the Bangkok Post - 9. April 2006:

No-vote campaign overshadows TRT

Songkhla activists beg candidates from small parties not to stand

By Post reporters

The vigorous campaign urging people in the South to mark ''abstention'' on ballots in the second round of voting continues to cast a shadow over Thai Rak Thai candidates embarrassed by the high rate of no-votes in the April 2 general election.

Around 200 people gathered at the University of Srivichai Technology, the venue for candidacy registration for the new elections in Songkhla, beseeching and coercing candidates from other parties to bow out of the race.

''We have 60-year-olds who are ready to prostrate themselves before the candidates from small parties asking them not to run,'' said Chalee Noppawong, a former aide to the Democrat party's Trairong Suwannakhiri.

Thanom Suwan, 60, said he joined the campaign voluntarily to ensure that Thai Rak Thai would stand alone. ''The results show that we don't want the TRT,'' he said.

The demonstrators plan to embarrass the candidates who do not heed their plea by condemning them in public. ''We'll make large signboards with their names and pictures and put them up across the town,'' said Mr Chalee.

Calling themselves ''Khon Rak Songkhla'' (People Who Love Songkhla), the demonstrators dispersed after the candidacy registration closed, but said they would come back again today, which is the last day of registration.

While it remains to be seen if the campaign will bear fruit, only Thai Rak Thai candidates registered yesterday for the second balloting, scheduled for April 29. However, it was reported that candidates from other parties might sneak in and apply to stand in the elections today.

Some had obtained the application forms beforehand.

Thai Rak Thai's Veera Musikapong yesterday called on the Election Commission (EC) to take action against the demonstrators.

Of the eight constituencies in Songkhla, elections have been called again in seven where the TRT candidates were defeated by ballots marked ''no-vote''.

The EC has called a second round of balloting in 38 constituencies in 15 southern provinces. Candidates standing alone must get the minimum requirement of at least 20% of eligible votes to win the seat.

A source said a network with close associations with the People's Alliance for Democracy would continue its efforts to make the southern region a TRT-free zone.

The source said group members plan to tear up ballot papers to protest against the elections, following the example of a political scientist at Chulalongkorn University who did so in Bangkok in the April 2 poll.

About 300 people have reportedly expressed an intention to do this.

TRT candidates managed to avoid a one-horse race in some constituencies after candidates of small parties who failed in the previous round switched to contest in theirs.

In Surat Thani, Suporn Chankaew of the Khonkhoprodnee party switched from constituency 5, where he was defeated by a TRT candidate, to stand against TRT's Chuchai Thongkhao in constituency 3.

In Satun, Thai Rak Thai's Jirayus Naowakate avoided a one-horse race when a candidate from the Khonkhoprodnee party applied to run in the same constituency. All three candidates in Satun failed to get the required 20%.

However, not all failed Thai Rak Thai candidates had the heart to seek another election.

Areepen Uttarasin, of the Wadah group, bowed out of the race in Narathiwat's constituency 1 to pave the way for other party candidates.

''The people have denied me,'' he said.

The EC's decision to accept additional candidates was widely criticised as a ploy to help TRT candidates avoid the 20% rule.

The EC, however, denied that it had sided with the TRT.

''We never help any political parties. We allow new candidates because we want to give them an opportunity to enter politics,'' EC secretary-general Pol Maj-Gen Ekkachai Varunprapa said yesterday

Bangkok Post - 09APR 2006

Edited April 9, 2006 by sushiman

[lukamar]

And exactly what were you before becoming "human" again?

PADS's Whipping boy perhaps

[cmcarrent]

PADS's Whipping boy perhaps

That's ColPyat's full-time job isn't it?

[lukamar]

Around 200 people gathered at the University of Srivichai Technology, the venue for candidacy registration for the new elections in Songkhla, beseeching and coercing candidates from other parties to bow out of the race.

The demonstrators plan to embarrass the candidates who do not heed their plea by condemning them in public. ''We'll make large signboards with their names and pictures and put them up across the town,'' said Mr Chalee.

Thai Rak Thai's Veera Musikapong yesterday called on the Election Commission (EC) to take action against the demonstrators.

A source said a network with close associations with the People's Alliance for Democracy would continue its efforts to make the southern region a TRT-free zone.

Threaten, harass, embarrass and coerce the small party candidates not to run against the TRT in the by-elections. Makes some of Thaksins shortcomings pale in comparison to that anti-democratic stand.

[sushiman]

Threaten, harass, embarrass and coerce the small party candidates not to run against the TRT in the by-elections. Makes some of Thaksins shortcomings pale in comparison to that anti-democratic stand.

Totally agree with you Lukamar. Rather stupid actions to try to solve this matter.

Same as the idiots who were nearly attacking the democrats in Chiang Mai recently.

I think it would be really time for an intelligent panel to try to solve this matter, but will TRT allow outsiders to join this needed urgent task, as their boss promised? The longer they wait, the more embarrasing actions, we'll see on both sides. Idiots are to be found in every camp, unfortunatelly.

[ColPyat]

*** Well I guess the people are not so stupid, depends how the approach and the ideas will be

Why you always have to see so black everywhere?? Do you work for a Aid company, and

are surrounded by misery all the time? Just curiouse?

PAD's whipping boy is back!

Nops, i am just a naturally curious individual. Don't work for any company.

I would have liked to see Thaksin voted out of office being completely disgraced. Right now though, he is still loved by millions, and will be forever. He does not deserve that.

Yes, the easy loan scemes did to some extend cut the everpresent loan sharks to some extend. My problem though is that his easy loan scemes were populist in nature, and not well thought through. The biggest failure was that the ones in the most desperate need of assistence have hardly any money management skills. There was very little assistence by the government in how to properly invest the money, therefore those sectors also have the most problems to repay those loans.

Nevertheless, the problem is that people have to learn themselves from their own mistakes, and cannot be patronised and ruled over forever. What they need is not city people screaming how stupid they are. What they need is assistence. The PAD and the opposition parties have not given them any assistence. In the 5 years of Thaksin rule the opposition parties have not went into the villages to counter Thaksin. The only party that had regular meetings in all villages was TRT. This way the opposition has given TRT a free reign.

Now it will be very hard to go into the villages, even if they would want to. Which i doubt, they never did before either.

The demonstrations now are going too far, they set a very dangerous precedent. Demonstrating is a constitutional right in any democracy, but they cannot replace democracy including the process of voting. But that happened here. And, as we can see, they do not stop. Mob rule has taken over due process. How long do you think the powers are going to look the other way?

The army is on stand by, waiting for orders. And there are other vested interests and powers who are existing in this country who have not taken open sides with anyone. But they are observing the situation with concern.

[Siripon]

Phi-jai Colpyat (what does your name mean? Thai?)

that's well observed and very true of course, but this was of course not the goal for my comment.

My goal was to show how TRT is doing politics in a vast manner, without long-term goals, only short-term bank account filling self-purpose and well commented also by PLUS above in a more direct sense rapport what is going on here.

You as TRT supporter as far I read some of your previous postings (or criticer of all Anti Thaksin people whatever is your main stand, which of course is your right, and some of your points were well commented too), what is your future prediction for the TRT's now? Do you think they will follow their leaders promise to invite people from all walks of life to amend the constitution?? I rather think they will try to use this situation to create a 1-3 year only TRT house, which is of course a bit worrying for the future of Thailand, i suppose. Full in gread of the current situation, that the opposition didn't agree to those self-arranged selfserving (trying to bring the allegations under the carpet) Snap-Erections? (Elections).

Do you personally think this Snap Elections were a good thing for anyone or any case?

Your Nong-Jai Sushiman

My handle is not Thai at all, it's a homage to one of my favourite novelists, main figure of his recently finished novel in four sequels with the most excentric, out there, tragicomical antihero in literature i am aware of. While registering i just read that last book i have waited for nearly a decade.

I am as far from TRT supporter as you can imagine. That is one of the reasons why i distrust the PAD, or whatever they call themselves now. The leading open figures of the PAD, Sondhi and Chamlong, were both TRT, especially while Thaksin has done the worst damage, them two have supported his policies fully. They don't come from any corner that i would remotely call "democratic". I see them as more right wing, more xenophobic, than Thaksin, a conglomerate of vested interests that are typical of the prevaling system. Their followers are to the most part urban middle classes who have very little understanding about the problems of the rural poor, neither much interest in them.

And i have seen regular visitors behind the stage that i wonder really why they possibly could be welcomed that friendly by a organisation that tries to "clean up" the system. People like Sanoh Tienthong...

Anyhow, any future prediction on TRT from my side is pure speculation. I do not have any high level contacts to TRT. I would wonder if they, at the present moment, actually know what is going to happen.

One thing i do know though for certain is, that the army is on stand by, waiting for orders. The longer the mess goes on, the bigger the chance that someone might step in.

The snap elections were IMHO a momentarily pragmatic move to stop TRT MPs from following Chamlong, who holds considerable influence with the nationalist religious right wing of the TRT, in deserting the party.

Good? Not much in politics, and Thai politics in particular, would fall under what i personally define as "good". It is just powerstruggles, and decisions made along strategic and pragmantic lines, that sometimes might be beneficial for the population, and often only to the people in the game.

Colonel, you're omitting one of the most important figures in the PAD who knows more about the rural sector than almost anyone in Thailand, namely Dr Jermsak Pintong.

I remember pre- TRT when his village seminars\ discussions programmes were broadcast on free TV before they were banned, villagers would discuss local farming problems, he acted as the moderator with approx 100 villagers in the audience.Those programmes went on for years. That was participatory democracy.

He lectured at Thammasart for years also about the agricultural sector, you shouldn't think the PAD is just concerned with urban problems.

Regsrding the election, Thaksin did not resign because of the demonstrations, he resigned because of the enormous amount of no votes and spoilt ballot papers.

The PAd rallies, broadcast on ASTV and held in Bangkok just brought home to many people the facts of Thaksinocracy. If only a few had been swayed by the protests then Thaksin would not have resigned.

But it's hard to ignore 11 million when they're educated and can see through the game.

[ColPyat]

Colonel, you're omitting one of the most important figures in the PAD who knows more about the rural sector than almost anyone in Thailand, namely Dr Jermsak Pintong.

I remember pre- TRT when his village seminars\ discussions programmes were broadcast on free TV before they were banned, villagers would discuss local farming problems, he acted as the moderator with approx 100 villagers in the audience.Those programmes went on for years. That was participatory democracy.

He lectured at Thammasart for years also about the agricultural sector, you shouldn't think the PAD is just concerned with urban problems.

Regsrding the election, Thaksin did not resign because of the demonstrations, he resigned because of the enormous amount of no votes and spoilt ballot papers.

The PAd rallies, broadcast on ASTV and held in Bangkok just brought home to many people the facts of Thaksinocracy. If only a few had been swayed by the protests then Thaksin would not have resigned.

But it's hard to ignore 11 million when they're educated and can see through the game.

Don't remember those seminars. I also don't remember anyone from any university other than the agricultural universities ever having made an appearance in any of the villages i know. Neither from any political party. The only people who made a regular appearance in those villages were unfortunately TRT.

Yes, no doubt that the Thaksin issue has polarised the population, it may be hard to ignore those 11 million, but why were the 16 million on the other side of the fence ignored? Becuase they are largely from the backward rural poor?

Thaksin stepped down because of the pressure of the demonstrations, not because of the vote. 16 million is anywhere considered a very strong mandate. I can't remember that ever in my homecountry with muti-party parliamentary democracy any party has been given such a huge majority.

Thaksin stepped down to in order not having to violently disperse the demontrations. Which he would have had to do.

ASTV only brought the facts of Thaksinomics (and lots of xenophobic speaches) to the urban middle classes, but hardly to the rural poor that were the mass of Thaksin supporters.

[sushiman]

PAD's whipping boy is back!

Although I respect your well described (sorry my English is very bad) situation statement here, I still believe your postings are running in circles here, and not bringing any solution or proposition at all. Neither you like T-TRT nor the opposition trying to clean up corruption. What is your goal of your postings?

To show us all how right and hopeless we all should be, and just leave this situation as it is, as the people in power are the elected party (again the opposition had the right to oppose these elections, as it was really no need for them, only serving one purpose).

TRT is doing meanwhile all they can to misuse this situation and keep their power most probably without inviting any opposition parties to have political reform talks as promised before. It's really embarrasing to see that up to date, noone at TRT is trying to give any hope for the future as well.

Only big televised talks by their leader, with fake promises which they don't want or most probably will never do... ...waah...Now wonder the demonstrations with right are going on. Do you want to swollow this game further more?

I think no matter what the situation is, I think people have to make up their minds and stand for one-side and keep on preasuring TRT for a right path, with peaceful talks for the good of all or try to explain to 10 Million, why and what their job for the country is and explain finally why the allegations are not allowed to be openely discussed.

Either you stand for TRT but have to admit that somethings has to change, or you are blind

and just keep on moaning and groaning all the time, for what?

But instead they are most probably continueing their dirty elections tricks, to get their needed 20%, and the watchdogs are doing their best to support them and ignoring the fraud claims even

by recognised parties which they rather better not ignore for a co-operative future (Democrats).

These whole elections are a big joke, and I think they better really believe in their goodwill themselves and in their popularity with the people, and start with reform talks with outsiders and opposition parties now! And new elections with all could take place, should be anounced and not continue with this communist one-party ruleing. Do they really want this?

Their own suggestions are not being fullfilled now, why?

It's a endless circle we will see here, if TRT will continue to try to crasp for the big cake alone. I'm afraid they are trying to do so. And Mr. Thaksin is having fun now from the outside, enjoying his victory, which is only still here, because the opposition was so polite and down to earth to do all demonstrations peacefully and in a orderly manner (which I hope they will continue to do, and I'm sure the PAD leaders agree on this point) and not use all options available.

It's a David against Goliath situation here, so just go with Goliath as he's bigger and stronger?

How can you support this? and just keep on blaiming the oppostion, which are just trying to do something against this corrupt politics of TRT?

Do we need to see first blood, so the TRT can run with iron fists against any oppostion or the opposition can suggest further more for Atricle 7? I wondering who is misusing this situation now. If this would be my country, I also would go the streets for sure. If they don't want to talk to anyone and eat up the cake alone, whatelse could you do? I think the troublemakers and the non-co-operative side is clearly on the gov-side this time, i'm afraid.

Really May khao chay!

Try to post a solution, and then your whole postings would make more sense. But just black painting is not useful for anyone here or in this country.

Edited April 9, 2006 by sushiman