Pm Thaksin Resigns

[Jai Dee]

Here we go again...

I know this thread has gone on a long time... and the title doesn't really reflect the current political situation any more... but it is still an avenue to convey breaking news and discuss the situation until some new political event eclipses this one, and the thread gets closed or dies a natural death.

Please refrain from the personal comments and insults folks, or this thread will have to be closed and warnings and/or holidays issued.

[Plus]

Thanks Colpyat for reminding us about corruption that existed long before Thaksin came to power.

Yet, Salween log scandal is peanuts comparing to modern day corruption. 50,000 logs and 5 million baht were unrelated figures in the article, btw. Even if the logs cost 2,000 apiece, even 5,000 - it's still peanuts - 25 million tops. Do you know what a BILLION is? Under Thaksin people steal in BILLIONs.

I didn't know you were one of those posters who don't think that corruption achieved unprecedented levels with TRT in charge.

Your logic is denying you - you can't say with a straght face that anti-Thaksin's protests are NOT largely about his grand scale corruption, yet that seems to be the conclusion of your post.

Kraisak Choonhavan wasn't a political heir to his father, he didn't get along with his father's old buddies, and he's considered clean (by Thai standards). If you want him to donate all the money his father collected through corruption - start another thread, I don't know why you even brought him here.

The discussion drifts further and further from the stated topic.

[jdinasia]

lol ...

Now I have to worry about Myanmar too? If I were I'd be worried about the Gov't first and not trees

It is entirely up to you what you worry about, but it would be only in your own interest if you start informing yourself about even the basics of the issues you comment on. The complete ignorance of your statements is more than bewildering.

If you would have even the slightest clue about regional, and Thai, politics than i would not have to painstakingly try to explain you, unfortunately so far with no visible positive result, that the issue of "corruption" in Thailand, you so vehemently argue against, is not centered around Thaksin, but a result of decades of highly complex social and political developments, in which "the trees" do play a major role, as well as drugs, gems, insurgencies, cold war politics, worldwide strange and outright weird alliances and almost impossible partnerships.You might then understand that the removal of Thaksin by the PAD and other vested interests in the background are to be seen in a completely different light, and that it is not the solution to the inherent problems, such as corruption, of this region.

But yes, i do somewhat understand that it is far easier to post on the internet asinine oneliners from a comfortable armchair than going through complex reports, studies and volumes of books, questioning them, reconfirming facts by physical travel into dangerous crises zones, and that way working oneself through a vast web of deceit.

Why strain yourself with reality when sprouting simplistic blather is so much easier?

it is always fun to watch ColPyat ... say

I think that i have made in previous posts more than clear how disgusted i feel about the deaths during the drugwar.

and then get the real thoughts .....

Compared to some of them Thaksin is a moral being.

It is always fun to watch how jdinasia personalises a discussion when he can't contribute anything even closely resembling the topic.

Or is he just trying to get his post count up?

I'll leave all tha jabs and digs and flames alone ........

I'll leave the continuation of outrageous claims alone .....

Very simply ... You overcomplicate everything .... The actions of the PAD that I agree with is that at some level you MUST say enough is enough. Thailand could no longer afford Thaksin to be sitting without the ability to be censured. This is NOT about Myanmar ... this is NOT about the past .... this is about here and now.

You are the only person suggesting that it ALL needs to be fixed overnight ... it won't .. the rest of us GET that ...

JaiDee ---- tried to keep that very nice and simple ... hope it is ok

Edited April 20, 2006 by jdinasia

[Jai Dee]

Acting PM declined commenting over the denies to give comments over the suspension of meeting between PAD leaders and inquiry officers

Acting Prime Minister Chitchai Wannasathit (ชิดชัย วรรณสถิตย์ ) has refused to give comments over the suspension of the meeting between core leaders of the People’s Alliance for Democracy(PAD) and inquiry officials. He stated that the officials will work according to the legal system.

Accoridng to the PAD, core leaders from the group were unable to attend the meeting stated on the summon as a rally in Trang has already been arranged.

He added that it is the duty of the inquiry officials to do their jobs and that he himself was a former policeman; therefore he did not look into the details of the issue. He believes the officials will proceed their performances according to the process of judgment. He said that until a ruling has been issued, everyone is deemed innocent as for now.

Gen. Chitchai also talked about Mr. Sondhi Limthongkul’s (สนธิ ลิ้มทองกุล) decision to file a libel suit against Pol. Maj. Gen. Montree Chamroon(มนตรี จำรูญ ),Commissioner of the Central Investigation Bureau adding that Mr. Sondhi has every legal rights to do so.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 21 April 2006

[tettyan]

After the Thai NSC has changed Burma policy during the early 90's from the buffer state policy into supporting SLORC thousands of refugees were pushed over the border into their death, while other Thai elements still squeezed out whatever they could from the rebel armies, at the same time investing heavily into Burma.

That's not exactly how I remember it. As I understand it, there were real and substantial improvements in Thai human rights policy toward Burma under Chuan, at least from what I read

here. Thaksin was the one who reversed these policies, making Thailand the friendliest nation in all of ASEAN to the SPDC regime. So while the human rights' policies of governments prior to Chuan is nothing to shout about, Thaksin can't skirt responsibility for policies that he has taken up so enthusiastically.

[Jai Dee]

Thai Rak Thai Party says EC’s investigation is not yet final

Thai Rak Thai Party has asked public members not to urgently jump into the same conclusion as that of the sub-investigating team of the Election Commission which indicated that small parties were hired to run in the general elections.

Deputy spokesman of the Thai Rak Thai Party Pimuk Simaroj (ภิมุข สิมะโรจน์) said although the subcommittee has issued the result of its investigation, final resolution has yet to be issued by the main Election Commission. He reaffirmed that Thai Rak Thai Party has no such policy to hire smaller parties to run in the general elections.

Mr. Pimuk said however that if the EC maintains the same opinion, they must look further into more evidence to find out whether the hiring of small parties was related to specific members or the main party board. If evidence shows that Thai Rak Thai was really involved in the alleged practice, the party could face severe penalty including dissolution of the party. He asked the public to leave the matter decided by the legal procedures.

The TRT spokesman also said that the Party will hold a general assembly on April 24 at 2 p.m at the TRT Head Office on Phetchaburi Road. He revealed that the agenda will not include an appointment of the new board members as the time of the existing board is not yet running out. In the morning, Pol. Lt-Col. Thaksin Shinawatra, the Party leader, will preside over the opening of Thai Rak Thai Library.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 21 April 2006

[jdinasia]

Sounds like very soon TRT will be offering up some scapegoats

[Jai Dee]

EC investigating election violations

At least 65 Senate candidates are under investigation for possible election law violations, including several winners who appeared onstage at rallies staged by the People’s Alliance for Democracy, members of the Election Commission said yesterday.

“The commission might take time to announce the official list of new senators because 65 cases need to be investigated,” Maj-Gen Ekachai Warunprapha, the commission’s secretary-general, told reporters yesterday. “We expect that more complaints will be filed after the results are announced. Also, the commission will investigate any senators who joined the PAD on stage.” Wasana Permlarp, the EC’s chairman, added that the commission is likely to endorse winners in five to seven days. In addition, he indicated that certain winners with connections to ruling party officials would not be disqualified on that basis alone.

“There is no law that says relatives or friends or husbands or wives of officials cannot join the Senate race,” Wasana told reporters. “However, the people who will take part in the Parliament, both in the House of Representatives and the Senate, must have a good moral conscience. Personally, I think that being related to someone is irrelevant to performing a duty in Parliament.” The statements come amid speculation that some winners in Wednesday’s election may be disqualified. After the Senate election in 2000, the EC endorsed 122 winners, invalidated the results of 78 Senate candidates and called for by-elections in 35 provinces.

The drawn-out process took 157 days to complete and five rounds of voting in some provinces – each with subsequently lower voter interest. On Wednesday, voter turnout hit 63 percent, lower than the 70-percent turnout in the 2000 election.

Disqualifying a candidate is typically a three-step process. After the EC receives allegations of fraud, the accused is summoned to defend him or herself.

If the allegations are deemed weak, the EC will endorse the candidate. If the commission is still not convinced, then it will investigate further and summon the suspected candidate a second time for questioning.

If the accused refutes any further evidence, he or she will be endorsed. If not, the EC has the power to disqualify a candidate and call a by-election.

Though it remains to be seen whether appearing on stage with the anti-Thaksin Shinawatra PAD is grounds for disqualification, the accused candidates have already started to defend themselves. At least five Bangkok winners are implicated, including top vote-getter Nitipoom Navaratna, former graft-fighter Klanarong Chanthik, academic Kwansuang Atibodhi, former news anchor Boonyod Sukthinthai and anti-privatization activist Rosana Tositrakul.

“My appearance on the PAD stage was very general and I did not intend to gain popularity,” Rosana said in an interview yesterday with community radio station 97.75 FM. “I didn’t even introduce myself…it shouldn’t be seen as violating election law. I think the EC itself should perform its duty at its best or else face more criticism.” Analysts said disqualifications based on associations with PAD are likely to provoke outrage among members of the broad-based anti-Thaksin alliance.

“If the EC tries that one they will open up Pandora’s box,” said Prudhisan Jumbala, a political scientist at Chulalongkorn University. “It will allow counter-accusations to fly against winners linked to the ruling party. The EC would be asking for trouble…but maybe it wants to ask for trouble.” Election law prohibits political parties from supporting Senate candidates directly or indirectly. It also bars candidates from campaigning – a somewhat bizarre requirement built on the assumption that the good deeds of potential senators have been on display for years, and voters should be able to assess their qualifications before they even announce that they are running for the Upper House.

Other allegations of election fraud have been leveled against the EC itself. Pol Lt-Col Raembo Wisetthitipan, a losing Bangkok candidate, claimed yesterday that the vote-counting process was rife with irregularities and threatened to file a lawsuit with the Administrative Court if the EC did not properly investigate the allegations.

Responding to his claims, Wasana said the commission can open up the ballot boxes again if the evidence proves strong enough.

“I have received information about corruption in changing the result of the election during the vote-counting,” he told reporters. “I have urgently brought this matter up in a meeting. Don’t jump to conclusions or blame anyone since it will cause confusion.” Some political analysts were concerned that the EC would rush to endorse all 200 senators because a full Upper House is needed to convene the Lower House. But if the EC does not endorse any senators before May 2 (the Constitution requires the National Assembly to convene 30 days after an election of the House of Representatives), then the old Senate could sit in its role as caretaker.

Either way, analysts said the strong political ties of many Senate winners are likely to pave the way for a smooth endorsement process. Though some candidates may be tossed out if the evidence presented against them is particularly blatant, the Senate election is unlikely to present the same Constitutional quandaries that marred the House election earlier this month.

“I think there will be some candidates disqualified, but not nearly as many as in the 2000 election, because many of those who were elected are connected to the powers that be,” said Somchai Pakapatwiwat, a political scientist at Thammasat University. “Even if they disqualify people with links to the ruling party, those candidates are likely to be replaced by similar people. And if they try to disqualify anti-Thaksin people, then the EC would just create more turmoil and extra-parliamentary pressure.”

Source: ThaiDay - 21 April 2006

[Jai Dee]

Two political parties dissolved after changing data about their candidates

The Election Commission has ordered dissolution of two political parties after investigations show that they had changed the data to enable their candidates to qualify for the general elections.

EC Secretary-General Ekkachai Warunprapha (เอกชัย วารุณประภา) revealed the result of investigation at a press conference yesterday after holding a meeting to consider the allegation submitted by the Democrat Party Secretary General, Mr. Suthep Thuagsuban (สุเทพ เทือกสุบรรณ).

Police Major-General Ekkachai said the meeting unanimously resolved to take legal action against politicians and officials involved.

They include a computer official of the EC, Mr. Amornwit Suwannapha (อมรวิทย์ สุวรรณผา), the leader of the Pattanachartthai (พัฒนาชาติไทย) Party Mr. Boonthawi-sak Amornsilp (บุญทวีศักดิ์ อมรศิลป์) and his five candidates, the leader of Phaendinthai or Thai Ground Party Mr. Boon-Ittipol Chinaratch (บุญอิทธิพล ชินราช) and an official and candidates of the party who had all taken part in the change of information.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 22 April 2006

[Jai Dee]

Suthep calls on EC to dissolve Thai Rak Thai

Democrat Party secretary-general Suthep Thaugsuban said Friday that the Election Commission should dissolve the Thai Rak Thai Party after an investigative committee concluded that the party had allegedly hired smaller parties to field candidates in some constituencies.

Suthep said he had learnt that the investigative panel had filed its conclusion with the EC.

He said the investigative committee had found that the Thai Rak Thai had allegedly hired small parties to field candidates in constituencies where Thai Rak Thai realised that its candidates would not be able to earn 20 per cent of eligible voters.

EC Office secretary-general Ekkachai Warunprapha said the EC would consider the issue Friday.

Source: The Nation - 22 April 2006

[Jai Dee]

Protests may jeopardise polls

Mass ballot-tearing, no-vote ticking please

Tomorrow's by-elections could face a campaign of civil disobedience on an unprecedented scale with many people planning to tear up their ballot papers, and others urged to protest by wearing black and ticking the no-vote box.

In the repeat polls largely in the South, all eyes are on Songkhla where three election directors quit after the Election Commission allowed candidates to register just a few days ahead, on April 19 and 20.

The EC claimed it needed to give a chance to small-party candidates who were cowed by protesting residents into not registering early this month.

Three academics from Prince of Songkla University's Hat Yai campus, Kriangsak Liewchanpattana, Pichai Srisai and Anant Boonsopon, have announced their intention to tear up their ballot papers.

"We want to show that the people have lost hope," said Mr Pichai.

Ballot tearing was a protest measure that was backed at a campaign of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) in Trang province on Thursday.

The Rak Songkhla (Love Songkhla) group is campaigning for voters to wear black and tick the no-vote box when they cast their ballots tomorrow.

Chalee Noppawong na Ayudhaya, the group leader, yesterday called on voters in other provinces to do the same.

A source said voters who planned to destroy their ballot papers had been urged to do so in groups rather than individually, and to make a statement beforehand.

"We cannot say how many people will join the campaign or where they will do it. But they'll definitely do it," said a leader of the campaign.

Suthon Rakwong, of the PAD in the southern provinces, said he anticipates that as many as 20,000 people will be tempted to tear up their ballot papers. "The EC is imposing the elections on people who already made their statement on April 2 that they do not want to vote for anyone," he said.

However, Manu Khiewkhram, of the PAD in Phuket, is not in favour of destroying ballot papers, preferring a more subtle approach to protect the province's image.

"We're a tourist town and there are attempts to undermine the [PAD] alliance by inciting chaos and ruining the tourism industry. So tearing up ballot papers may be a bit drastic here," he said.

Meanwhile, Pratheep Rattanakowit, election director in Narathiwat, said people were entitled to wear black and cast abstention ballots.

But Mr Pratheep urged voters not to tear up the ballot papers as it is against the law.

Due to violence at the mid-week Senate elections, security is being stepped up at polling booths in the far South where two policemen were killed and scores of civilians wounded in bomb and gun attacks on Wednesday.

Security will be extra tight in Narathiwat's constituency 4 covering three districts of Bacho, Rueso and Si Sakhon.

In Rueso district, there will be six security officers instead of four at the polling booths while there will be five security officers at each of the polling units in Bacho and Si Sakhon. Elsewhere, up to four security officers will be deployed at polling units.

To boost staff morale, authorities have decided to give double allowances of 500 baht to those stationed at polling stations.

The provincial election committee in Narathiwat is preparing a contingency plan in case election staff pull out at the last minute. "We've asked village heads and kamnans to stand by in case staff quit," said Vichian Sunthonnont, chairman of the provincial election committee.

Thai Rak Thai candidates stand unopposed in nine constituencies in the provinces of Samut Sakhon, Krabi, Chumphon, Trang, Nakhon Si Thammarat, Narathiwat, Pattani and Phangnga.

Source: Bangkok Post - 22 April 2006

[Jai Dee]

Acting PM has urged all sides to accept the outcome of the election tomorrow

Acting Prime Minister Chitchai Wannasathit (ชิดชัย วรรณสถิตย์) has urged all parties to accept the outcome of the by-election tomorrow and requested the Thai people to stay united.

Speaking on tomorrow’s by-election, Pol. Gen. Chitchai said that Thai Rak Thai party candidates in 19 constituencies are competing with themselves in order to reach the 20% electoral requirements. He expressed his belief that TRT candidates will receive a positive respond from the general public in this election. Nevertheless, he has encouraged people to show their democratic mind by casting their ballots tomorrow.

As for the country’s economic problems, Pol. Gen. Chitchai said that every sector should stay united to jointly find solutions to the matter.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 22 April 2006

[Jai Dee]

Pol.-Gen. Chitchai orders reinforcement of personnel during the re-election in the South tomorrow

Acting Prime Minister Chitchai Wannasathit has instructed deployment of more security personnel in the three southernmost provinces tomorrow as people in the region go to the poll for the second time, following the unsuccessful April 2 general election.

Police General Chitchai said he had discussed security measures with provincial governors involved, particularly with the governor of Pattani, after which he was confident that no violence would occur on the day. He said however that more personnel has been transferred into the region to keep laws and order. He has also asked for cooperation from the Central Islamic Committees of Yala, Pattani and Narathiwat, to help provide safety for voters.

The move followed bomb explosions at several sites in the region on the senatorial election on April 19th, causing death to three security officials and several others while removing ballot boxes.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 22 April 2006

[ColPyat]

Colpyat, do you never tire of spewing garbage?

If you are so convinced that i "spew garbage" and am a "troll", why then do you have to resort to flaming instead of factually showing that i am wrong?

You have so far failed counter or even answer a single point i have made other than with a barrage illmannered insults. This is rather annoying.

[ColPyat]

Thanks Colpyat for reminding us about corruption that existed long before Thaksin came to power.

Yet, Salween log scandal is peanuts comparing to modern day corruption. 50,000 logs and 5 million baht were unrelated figures in the article, btw. Even if the logs cost 2,000 apiece, even 5,000 - it's still peanuts - 25 million tops. Do you know what a BILLION is? Under Thaksin people steal in BILLIONs.

I didn't know you were one of those posters who don't think that corruption achieved unprecedented levels with TRT in charge.

Your logic is denying you - you can't say with a straght face that anti-Thaksin's protests are NOT largely about his grand scale corruption, yet that seems to be the conclusion of your post.

Kraisak Choonhavan wasn't a political heir to his father, he didn't get along with his father's old buddies, and he's considered clean (by Thai standards). If you want him to donate all the money his father collected through corruption - start another thread, I don't know why you even brought him here.

The discussion drifts further and further from the stated topic.

The Salween scandal is only the tip of the iceberg.

Over the last decades far more than billions were stolen under every government. Did you even bother to read the Global Witness reports which you can download at the link i have provided?

Just because stupid people with a short memory span demonstrate against Thaksin's corruption does not mean that all the other, far worse events (such as two decades of Thailand supporting the Khmer Rouge) did not happen.

The problem of Thailand is not Thaksin, the problem is a systhem of corruption, social injustice and inequality that Thais in general, including the PAD, are too scared to openly adress and deal with. As long as the root causes are not dealt with, nothing whatsoever will change to the better in Thailand. And the demonstartions are only part of the larger problem, as Thaksin is.

[ColPyat]

After the Thai NSC has changed Burma policy during the early 90's from the buffer state policy into supporting SLORC thousands of refugees were pushed over the border into their death, while other Thai elements still squeezed out whatever they could from the rebel armies, at the same time investing heavily into Burma.

That's not exactly how I remember it. As I understand it, there were real and substantial improvements in Thai human rights policy toward Burma under Chuan, at least from what I read

here. Thaksin was the one who reversed these policies, making Thailand the friendliest nation in all of ASEAN to the SPDC regime. So while the human rights' policies of governments prior to Chuan is nothing to shout about, Thaksin can't skirt responsibility for policies that he has taken up so enthusiastically.

You should get your information about Burmese human rights issues, especially concerning Thai involvement, not from vanity portraits on Thai generals, but from human rights reports.The constructive engagement policy was set by the NSC, in the early 90's, and followed through by every government since.

Here a link i found which is a bit more realistic than your fluff piece:

http://www.hrw.org/reports98/thai/Thai989-04.htm

The official Thai attitude toward the refugees grew noticeably harsher after 1992 as Thai-Burmese relations improved. It continued to deteriorate until November 1997 when, after pressure for democratic reforms in Thailand, Chuan Leekpai became prime minister. The Thai government then began to take a more positive attitude towards the refugees and initiated new discussions about UNHCR access to the border camps. By July 1998, however, little substantive change had occurred. The government’s policy towards Burmese refugees continued to reflect the strong influence of the army and the National Security Council in maintaining the policy that had been in place, with some variation, since 1992. Key elements of that policy included:

· allowing Burmese to cross into Thailand only to flee active fighting, and denying entry to or forcibly repatriating those fleeing human rights abuses;

· keeping camps perilously close to the border;

· restricting the role of UNHCR; and

· encouraging cease-fire agreements between the ethnic insurgents and the Burmese government.

[tettyan]

You should get your information about Burmese human rights issues, especially concerning Thai involvement, not from vanity portraits on Thai generals, but from human rights reports.The constructive engagement policy was set by the NSC, in the early 90's, and followed through by every government since.

Here a link i found which is a bit more realistic than your fluff piece:

http://www.hrw.org/reports98/thai/Thai989-04.htm

The official Thai attitude toward the refugees grew noticeably harsher after 1992 as Thai-Burmese relations improved. It continued to deteriorate until November 1997 when, after pressure for democratic reforms in Thailand, Chuan Leekpai became prime minister. The Thai government then began to take a more positive attitude towards the refugees and initiated new discussions about UNHCR access to the border camps. By July 1998, however, little substantive change had occurred. The government’s policy towards Burmese refugees continued to reflect the strong influence of the army and the National Security Council in maintaining the policy that had been in place, with some variation, since 1992. Key elements of that policy included:

· allowing Burmese to cross into Thailand only to flee active fighting, and denying entry to or forcibly repatriating those fleeing human rights abuses;

· keeping camps perilously close to the border;

· restricting the role of UNHCR; and

· encouraging cease-fire agreements between the ethnic insurgents and the Burmese government.

Thanks for doing the work.

Back to the original question - what has changed since 2001? I took your advice and did a little reading on the HRW website:

Previous Thai governments allowed Burmese activists to reside in Thailand and carry out their pro-democracy and human rights activities. Cities such as Bangkok, Chiang Mai, and Mae Sot, with their proximity to Burma and their modern telecommunications infrastructure, became the center of Burmese pro-democracy activities. ....

Since Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra took office in 2001, the Thai government has put the improvement of business and political relations with Burma’s State Peace and Development Council (SPDC) at the top of its agenda at the expense of individual rights. Thailand now regularly expels as many as 10,000 Burmese migrants a month in “informal deportations” to Burma. While many are able to bribe their way back into Thailand, others have faced persecution or other ill-treatment by Burmese government soldiers and intelligence officials, and by some of the ethnic-based armed groups operating along the border. Under an agreement between Thailand and Burma, Thailand also deports some 400 “illegal”(that is, undocumented) Burmese migrants each month from the Immigration Detention Center in Bangkok to Burma—directly to a holding center operated by Burmese military intelligence.

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/03/29/thaila10381.htm

Edited April 22, 2006 by tettyan

[ColPyat]

Thanks for doing the work.

Back to the original question - what has changed since 2001? I took your advice and did a little reading on the HRW website:

Before we lose ourselves in a discussion on Burma, yes, you are right, Thaksin's Burma policies are most likely influenced by his personal business interests more than anything else (even though there are certain points that do speak for the "constructive engagement" policy, not though when any engagement other than business is lacking ).

Nevertheless, my point was that he did not introduce human rights violations and corruption into Thailand, other governments did as well. And also the Chuan government was not what anyone would call "nice", as you can see from the reports, which you have initially refused to accept.

So far i fail to see anyone answering on my point of Thailand having supported the Khmer Rouge for more than two decades, trained them, made business with them, let them use Thai soil to fight the civil war.

[tettyan]

So far i fail to see anyone answering on my point of Thailand having supported the Khmer Rouge for more than two decades, trained them, made business with them, let them use Thai soil to fight the civil war.

I have to give credit to Chatchai for trying to change Thailand's policy on backing the Khmer Rouge (to a "neutral" position). Unfortunately, he was stymied at every turn by the army and career diplomats in the Foreign Ministry. Someone I know (a non-Thai) who was somewhat involved with this at the time was surprised at the lengths the bureaucrats went to undermine the policies of an elected PM.

[george]

Banharn blames Thaksin for crisis

BANGKOK: -- Chat Thai Party leader Banharn Silapa-archa Saturday blamed Thai Rak Thai Party leader Thaksin Shinawatra for the on-going national crisis.

Banharn was speaking to party assembly held at the Miracle Grand Hotel.

Banharn said the current crisis stemmed from Thaksin's decision to the dissolve the House on February 24 because he feared the massive rally on February 26.

Banharn said the House dissolution led to the crisis because the sub-sequent election would never see 500 House seats filled.

Banharn said the Constitution Court should be consulted as to whether the House would be able to convene its first meeting although all the 500 House seats would not be filled.

--The Nation 2006-04-22

[ColPyat]

So far i fail to see anyone answering on my point of Thailand having supported the Khmer Rouge for more than two decades, trained them, made business with them, let them use Thai soil to fight the civil war.

I have to give credit to Chatchai for trying to change Thailand's policy on backing the Khmer Rouge (to a "neutral" position). Unfortunately, he was stymied at every turn by the army and career diplomats in the Foreign Ministry. Someone I know (a non-Thai) who was somewhat involved with this at the time was surprised at the lengths the bureaucrats went to undermine the policies of an elected PM.

And at the same time Chatchai also carried the distinction to be the then most corrupt Prime Minister Thailand had up till then.

Which, basically is my point - things here were, are, and will be far more complex than this simplistic "good" - "bad" division most of my opponents here seem to adhere to.

[Plus]

Colpyat, it's bad-worse-worst, actually.

You can get all philosophical about wether Thaksin is the cause or the effect, or go deep in rich history of Thailand and its neighbouring countries, and their corruption, and refugee treatment ad nauseum, but that's not the topic at hand, is it?

So far no one with deep knowledge of all these things has come up and said - Thaksin should stay on because..., and that's proof enough for me.

Or wait a tick, you are actually not against Thaksin's removal, you are just trying to discredit PAD, or at least you were until lately, but now I don't know what are you arguing for or against, only that you slow down the discussion by calling to invetigate minute and largerly irrelevant facts from times long past.

[mbkudu]

Banharn blames Thaksin for crisis

BANGKOK: -- Chat Thai Party leader Banharn Silapa-archa Saturday blamed Thai Rak Thai Party leader Thaksin Shinawatra for the on-going national crisis.

Banharn was speaking to party assembly held at the Miracle Grand Hotel.

Banharn said the current crisis stemmed from Thaksin's decision to the dissolve the House on February 24 because he feared the massive rally on February 26.

Banharn said the House dissolution led to the crisis because the sub-sequent election would never see 500 House seats filled.

Banharn said the Constitution Court should be consulted as to whether the House would be able to convene its first meeting although all the 500 House seats would not be filled.

--The Nation 2006-04-22

Do people even listen to him? How could anyone in their right mind take anything from Banharn seriously. He had to be the biggest or maybe shortest joke Thailand was ever subjected to. He certainly made sure his home city was made nice and sparkley though before he left office.

[Plus]

The man still holds some power - Thaksin himself has been courting him in the past month.

[tettyan]

And at the same time Chatchai also carried the distinction to be the then most corrupt Prime Minister Thailand had up till then.

Which, basically is my point - things here were, are, and will be far more complex than this simplistic "good" - "bad" division most of my opponents here seem to adhere to.

Yes, it is ironic. I'm not a huge fan of Chatchai personally. But we also shouldn't forget that it was his government that imposed the blanket ban on teakwood logging. I'm also no fan of Banharn, but it was his government that created the study committee that eventually led the process of drafting a new constitution (a topic the Chuan I government was very reluctant to pursue). Credit should be given where it is due.

The Thai press has a habit of labeling certain politicians as "good people" and others as "bad people". The reality is that politicians are not nearly as black-and-white as the characters we see on the nightly soap operas. Taking a more nuanced view would be more prudent. Unfortunately, nuance doesn't sell.

Edited April 22, 2006 by tettyan

[ColPyat]

Colpyat, it's bad-worse-worst, actually.

You can get all philosophical about wether Thaksin is the cause or the effect, or go deep in rich history of Thailand and its neighbouring countries, and their corruption, and refugee treatment ad nauseum, but that's not the topic at hand, is it?

So far no one with deep knowledge of all these things has come up and said - Thaksin should stay on because..., and that's proof enough for me.

Or wait a tick, you are actually not against Thaksin's removal, you are just trying to discredit PAD, or at least you were until lately, but now I don't know what are you arguing for or against, only that you slow down the discussion by calling to invetigate minute and largerly irrelevant facts from times long past.

I believe in this often blindly pro PAD mutual agreement society here it is highly appropriate to spoil the party a bit by looking behind the veneer of their self created image of pro democracy activists. Which they aren't. Some of their leaders are as corrupt as Thaksin (only not as smart), the ideology they subscribe to is more than questionable, and contrary to averything that i would call democratic. They have allied themselves as Thaksin has with people who were benefitting hugely from those events you call "long time past". Therefore this is nothing but another dirty political game so typical for Thailand.

I am against the removal of Thaksin as it is done now, because this only has created serious instability and did nothing to further democracy in Thailand, and only speeds up Thailand's descend into another economical and social crises.

If you are partisan to some sort of cause, than all those complex facts may not be topical, or "slow the discussion down". I am too old to subscribe to those sort of infantile causes, and prefer to analyse political and social situations, and there the difference lies in the detail, and one has to go back into the past (which for me is not that distant).

[ColPyat]

Taking a more nuanced view would be more prudent. Unfortunately, nuance doesn't sell.

Now, there we are in complete agreement!

[sriracha john]

Thailand votes (again) today

Parts of Thailand, particularly in the South, will vote again today to try to elect members of Parliament for seats left vacant in the April 2 snap poll because of a lack of candidates.

A total of 67 candidates will compete tomorrow for the 40 seats, leaving 19 constituencies uncontested, as only one candidate of the Thai Rak Thai Party met minimum requirements to register, the Election Commission said yesterday.

Uncontested candidates require the support of at least 20% of registered voters to be elected. A boycott by Thailand's three main opposition parties at the general election led to low turnout, leaving the 40 seats unfilled.

The outcome of the vote will decide how quickly Parliament can convene, and when a new prime minister may be appointed. Outgoing Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra on April 4, a day after declaring his party had won the election, announced he would step down and let another member of his winning Thai Rak Thai Party take the post once the house convenes.

The Election Commission has until May 1 to announce the full election results for the 500-strong lower house, according to voting laws. After that, Parliament will be convened and a replacement prime minister appointed within another 30 days. Thaksin's Thai Rak Thai party has won all but one of the seats so far in the lower house elections.

Should there be seats left empty, the Parliament secretariat or the government will need to seek a Constitutional Court ruling on whether the House can convene with less than 500 members. Opposition leaders have called on the Election Commission to void the results, saying the vote was not constitutional.

- BP

[Jai Dee]

Interim PM says re-election in 3 southern provinces are fully secured

The Interim Prime Minister has ordered security forces to be laid across the three southern provinces in anticipation of insurgent activities during the upcoming re-elections.

Police General Chitchai Wannasathit (ชิดชัย วรรณสถิตย์), the interim prime minister, stated that after dicussions with the governors of the three southern provinces, especially in Pattani, he was certain that there would be no cause for concern during the re-elections (April 23). Police General Chitchai has ordered the deployment of additional troops and police to the three southern provinces, however, just in case.

The interim prime minister added that he has also coordinated with the Central Islamic Committee of each province for assistance in keeping the peace.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 23 April 2006

[Jai Dee]

Govt warns against ballot protest

Caretaker Interior Minister Kongsak Wantana yesterday warned voters against tearing up their ballot papers to protest against today's by-elections. Mass ballot-ripping is expected in many constituencies, particularly in the South, as part of a civil disobedience campaign.

ACM Kongsak said he was concerned about the obstruction of the polls in four provinces _ Trang, Nakhon Si Thammarat, Surat Thani and Songkhla.

He called on voters not to lend their ears to those who wanted to obstruct the elections and asked them to report violations of election law to provincial election committees or police.

ACM Kongsak said people who destroy ballot papers face a one-year jail term and/or a 10,000 to 100,000 baht fine, while those who encourage others to do so face a three-year imprisonment and/or a fine of 6,000 baht.

The election committees in several provinces, including Trang, yesterday called on voters to refrain from ripping their ballot papers.

Thammasak Tanwaropas, the Trang panel chairman, said police and local authorities would be put on stand-by at polling units to handle any obstruction of the polls.

Meanwhile, security authorities in Yala are heightening security to prevent violence in today's by-elections.

Four bombs were reportedly smuggled into Yala's Bannang Sata district. One of them reportedly exploded during Wednesday's Senate elections.

The Election Commission has called 40 by-elections in 17 provinces today.

Source: Bangkok Post - Sunday April 23, 2006