Adoption In Los

[jaideeguy]

I've been to two attourneys, went to my consulate {US}inquired with countless friends and have found lots of conflicting [and dated] info and was wondering if any forum members can advise me on the LATEST legal procedures regarding the adoption of our two thai children [ages 6 and 8] that i have been raising as my own for the last 5 yrs. Our 5yr marriage is legally registered with the wife's local amphor and i would like to give them my family name and later register them with my embassy and get them US passports for their future.

i've been told to start procedings thru the local amphor, the local municipal hall, and even bkk [that being my last choice, because i live in Chiang Mai].

I might mention that the oldest maintains his biological [deadbeat] father's name and the youngest has my wife's maiden name. my wife assumed my legal family name.

i've also gotten several different versions of what is required of me. one list had a total of 18 documents that i had to provide, most translated and noterised by my embassy [@ $30/stamp].

anyone out there that has actually done this recently, as i hear that there are new regulations that streamline the process from 2 yrs to less than 6 mo??

i love these two children as my own and i am 'papa' to them........just want to make it legal!!

[Old Man River]

I've been to two attourneys, went to my consulate {US}inquired with countless friends and have found lots of conflicting [and dated] info and was wondering if any forum members can advise me on the LATEST legal procedures regarding the adoption of our two thai children [ages 6 and 8] that i have been raising as my own for the last 5 yrs. Our 5yr marriage is legally registered with the wife's local amphor and i would like to give them my family name and later register them with my embassy and get them US passports for their future.

i've been told to start procedings thru the local amphor, the local municipal hall, and even bkk [that being my last choice, because i live in Chiang Mai].

I might mention that the oldest maintains his biological [deadbeat] father's name and the youngest has my wife's maiden name. my wife assumed my legal family name.

i've also gotten several different versions of what is required of me. one list had a total of 18 documents that i had to provide, most translated and noterised by my embassy [@ $30/stamp].

anyone out there that has actually done this recently, as i hear that there are new regulations that streamline the process from 2 yrs to less than 6 mo??

i love these two children as my own and i am 'papa' to them........just want to make it legal!!

More power to you.

I can advise you on the US procedure only after you have offically adopted them for two years as it pertains to the Thai side. My wife and I really didn't have any problem adopting our daughter in Thailand (we live in Bangkok), but each case is different and perhaps your children's father is making it difficult on you. I would have your wife handle it locally, and then find out what advice they are giving you. I am surprised that anyone is telling you that you need documents translated into English for the Thai side adoption as nobody asked us for this. For the US side to ultimately get citizenship and passports English translations on a number of documents were needed, but not for the Thai side adoption procedures. Just go at it and get the documents they tell you that you need until it gets done. Unless the "deadbeat" father is putting obstacles in your way, you shouldn't have too much of a problem accomplishing the Thai side adoption. The US side is not difficult either, but you will have to get pre-approval from Home Security and then will need to invoke the Child Citizenship Act of 2001 when your approved petition is sent on to the US Embassy. The people in the US Embassy are very helpful and will show you how to accomplish what you are trying to do.

Good luck.

[English Noodles]

How can you adopt them if there Father is still around?

Not trying to piss on your fire mate but what gives you the right?

[jaideeguy]

First, thanks for your info 'old man' .........much more constructive and informative than that rude 'english noodles' idiot!!

'How can you adopt them if there Father is still around?

Not trying to piss on your fire mate but what gives you the right?'

FYI, english.....i should get the right by supporting, housing clothing, loving and educating them for the last 5 yrs when he abandoned my wife immediately after the first was born because secretly had another family. Like most thai men, they love to plant the seed, but let others grow the tree. just another 'deadbeat father' who would by law have to pay in western countries.

Hey English, this forum is supposed to be an information source and helpful to the expat community....so please take your insults to another forum...

[Neeranam]

Edit -sorry, on second thoughts my post offered no practical advice. OP - good luck!

Edited April 6, 2006 by Neeranam

[sting01]

First, thanks for your info 'old man' .........much more constructive and informative than that rude 'english noodles' idiot!!

'How can you adopt them if there Father is still around?

Not trying to piss on your fire mate but what gives you the right?'

FYI, english.....i should get the right by supporting, housing clothing, loving and educating them for the last 5 yrs when he abandoned my wife immediately after the first was born because secretly had another family. Like most thai men, they love to plant the seed, but let others grow the tree. just another 'deadbeat father' who would by law have to pay in western countries.

Hey English, this forum is supposed to be an information source and helpful to the expat community....so please take your insults to another forum...

I confess I have no clue on the question, but nowaday I have questions on the subject?

You speak about what is in western country, but (if you do not mind) :

1) Do you (we?) live in Thailand or in western countries, or does Thailand is considering as a western country?

2) Does your wife, her child, the natural father are by any means citizens of a western country or thai citizens?

3) Does the fact the father do not help for the growing of the kid is officialy reconised? Did it was a official judgement on it? Are you sure (with all respect to your wife) it was really the father who left, and not the mother who was looking for better future for her kids?

Have you simply assumed during at least 5 mn you are living in Thailand, and not in a western country, and by result you have to comply with the thai laws and customs? So, if the father is still alive, if he never legally abandoned the kids, nor your wife asked for to have the legal status of single parent, how can you simply imagine you have the right to do so? Because you pay their food, clothes, school? Well, somewhere the kids are human being like you, not objects. You did not pay to own them, you simply do it because (I hope) you trully love them and their mother, Am I Right?

Even if your fight is the most respectable, are you sure the kids want to have your name and not their natural father?

Edited :

Rather than complain my post , say it's useless, non sensical, I suggest you to sit, think about the 3 questions I asked (that can be a way to adopt some thai usages) and find the answers in your heart.The most important is to raise your familly, with or without your name (property is not an issue). Remenber, you are not only what it'swritting on the paper, but you are also what your soul and your heart are, your country is where your heart and soul belongs. What about your kids hearts and soul? Where they belongs? Find the true answer, and enjoy a lovely and peaceful familly life

Edited April 6, 2006 by sting01

[jaideeguy]

Just to make my situation more clear........i have been living in LOS for 6+ years on retirement visa, have sufficient income to support and educate in the best schools my two kids, their [deadbeat] father is totally out of the picture [like i said, he abandoned both the first born and my wife and may be hard to reach, but his name is on the birth cirtificate as father of the oldest boy].

and my immediate goal is to simply go thru the legal thai adoption procedures and give them my family name........then eventually i will apply for US passports for them.

i just want to leave my kids with as many open doors [or options] as i can. that's simply what any responsible parent should offer their children.

So, does anyone out there in 'thai-visa land' have any recent experience with thai/falang adoption?? i know that i'm not the only one that wants to do this.......

thanks in advance.....

[barryofthailand]

I adopted my wifes son. We live in Pattaya, but you have to start the process in Bangkok. I can give you all the info on how to get started. PM Me and I will be happy to help.

Barry

[Gary A]

I don't know much about the procedure either other than the Thai father can make things VERY difficult. A friend of mine had to pay a deadbeat father a rather substantial sum of money to get him to sign the required papers. I think things went smoothly after the father consented.

[barryofthailand]

No signatures are necessary as long as you can prove to the Ampur where the child was born that the father has not been taking care of the child, and has had no contact.

Barry

[tutsiwarrior]

I would also like to adopt my step daughter...I am presuming that the 'Thai father' is the person indicated on the birth certificate?, correct? In my step daughter's case the biological father just shifted somewhere else and the biological mother (my wife's sister) didn't want the responsibility so the oldest brother and his then wife entered their names on the cert. So they are legally the parents?

My wife picked up the responsibility for the kid immediately but never legalised the arrangement. Certificates an' stuff doan' mean too much to country folks. But now that I want to adopt I'm presuming that a statement from my brother-in-law (whos name is on the cert) will be all that's needed to straighten things out.

No hassles from the biological mother or from the father (killed in a motorbike accident soon after the birth) so that on the Thai side things should be straight forward...or is the logic incorrect?

sorry...did not intend to hijack the thread...

Edited April 6, 2006 by tutsiwarrior

[wamberal]

Is there an issue of the children losing Thai citizenship if they are adopted?

I assume the ideal situation would be that both your wife and her children are able to live permanently in either Thailand, or your home country, whichever is better for them.

Anyway, best of luck.

Edited April 6, 2006 by wamberal

[paulfr]

No signatures are necessary as long as you can prove to the Ampur where the child was born that the father has not been taking care of the child, and has had no contact.

Barry

Since it is impossibe to PROVE a negative (no evidence is possible) ..... what will the Ampur take as proof the father has never supported or even seen the child for 10 or more years ?

Statements from the family ?

The boy's/child's word ??

[leisurely]

Sorry, no answers to any of the questions, but just wanted to send you good luck wishes. Just thought, try the BAMBI website, they do have a sort of special interests group for adoptions, but not sure if it is just for farangs wanting to adopt Thai children.

Good luck anyway

Leisurely

[barryofthailand]

The Ampur will ask for family members to apear in fron of the director to asert the same. Anyone needing info can PM me, the process is too lengthy to put on a thread.

Barry

[thaihome]

The Ampur will ask for family members to apear in fron of the director to asert the same. Anyone needing info can PM me, the process is too lengthy to put on a thread.

Barry

I have sent you a PM asking for details, but I do think that with the interest in this topic if you have the time, you should post your experience, regardless of how long.

TH

[Old Man River]

Is there an issue of the children losing Thai citizenship if they are adopted?

I assume the ideal situation would be that both your wife and her children are able to live permanently in either Thailand, or your home country, whichever is better for them.

Anyway, best of luck.

Good question. This is something that all of us who are foreign nationals that have adopted Thai children have been concerned with. Accordingly, there is a great deal of information on this subject in Thai Visa, including an English translation of the relevant Thai law. The bottom line is that while the law does not specifically state that dual citizenship is legal, it also doesn't specifically state that it is not legal. The law does state that if a child is born to an alien father, then the child must pick a nationality sometime between his/her 20th and 21st birthday. However, it appears that if the child was born to a Thai national (the situations we are discussing here), then they don't have to choose and can retain both. Given that there are some very senior Thai nationals who do carry two passports, I would be surprised if this changes anytime soon.

[barryofthailand]

Is there an issue of the children losing Thai citizenship if they are adopted?

I assume the ideal situation would be that both your wife and her children are able to live permanently in either Thailand, or your home country, whichever is better for them.

Anyway, best of luck.

Good question. This is something that all of us who are foreign nationals that have adopted Thai children have been concerned with. Accordingly, there is a great deal of information on this subject in Thai Visa, including an English translation of the relevant Thai law. The bottom line is that while the law does not specifically state that dual citizenship is legal, it also doesn't specifically state that it is not legal. The law does state that if a child is born to an alien father, then the child must pick a nationality sometime between his/her 20th and 21st birthday. However, it appears that if the child was born to a Thai national (the situations we are discussing here), then they don't have to choose and can retain both. Given that there are some very senior Thai nationals who do carry two passports, I would be surprised if this changes anytime soon.

I too asked this question when we went through the process. The answers I received was that adopted children that are Thai nationals are able to hold dual citizenship. Now remember that just because you are adopting a Thai Child that doesn't give them automatic citizenship. At least to the USA. I really don't know about other countries.

Barry

[Old Man River]

Is there an issue of the children losing Thai citizenship if they are adopted?

I assume the ideal situation would be that both your wife and her children are able to live permanently in either Thailand, or your home country, whichever is better for them.

Anyway, best of luck.

Good question. This is something that all of us who are foreign nationals that have adopted Thai children have been concerned with. Accordingly, there is a great deal of information on this subject in Thai Visa, including an English translation of the relevant Thai law. The bottom line is that while the law does not specifically state that dual citizenship is legal, it also doesn't specifically state that it is not legal. The law does state that if a child is born to an alien father, then the child must pick a nationality sometime between his/her 20th and 21st birthday. However, it appears that if the child was born to a Thai national (the situations we are discussing here), then they don't have to choose and can retain both. Given that there are some very senior Thai nationals who do carry two passports, I would be surprised if this changes anytime soon.

I too asked this question when we went through the process. The answers I received was that adopted children that are Thai nationals are able to hold dual citizenship. Now remember that just because you are adopting a Thai Child that doesn't give them automatic citizenship. At least to the USA. I really don't know about other countries.

Barry

I don't know about other countries either, but as it relates to the process for the US, I gave a brief overview to the OP in a previous message in this thread. I completed this process only a few months ago, so it is still clear in my mind. For the US, you can't even begin the process of US citizenship until you can show that the Thai adoption was legally finalized two years prior. Then on to Homeland Security and once approved, then on to the US Embassy for the final interview, medical exam, letter of support and additional documents.

The key thing for the OP to note is that he will be told by various people along the way that US citizenship for an adopted child isn't possible unless he will be bringing the child to the US to live. While this used to be true, it isn't anymore thanks to Pres. Bill Clinton who put through the Child Citizenship Act of 2001 (CCA). The people at the US Embassy were wonderful in first telling me about the CCA, then giving me advice on how best to follow it.

[gisele]

I want to adopt my husband children ages 10 and 12.

Is this done, a farang wife adopting her Thai husband's children?

When the time comes, I want the children to study at a university in Canada and be able to have advantages having a Canadian passport would allow them.

Is this a good idea, or am I being trivial?

[tutsiwarrior]

Is there an issue of the children losing Thai citizenship if they

[tutsiwarrior]

@!$%^&** ISP connection...

Edited April 7, 2006 by tutsiwarrior

[tutsiwarrior]

Is there an issue of the children losing Thai citizenship if they are adopted?

I assume the ideal situation would be that both your wife and her children are able to live permanently in either Thailand, or your home country, whichever is better for them.

Anyway, best of luck.

Good question. This is something that all of us who are foreign nationals that have adopted Thai children have been concerned with. Accordingly, there is a great deal of information on this subject in Thai Visa, including an English translation of the relevant Thai law. The bottom line is that while the law does not specifically state that dual citizenship is legal, it also doesn't specifically state that it is not legal. The law does state that if a child is born to an alien father, then the child must pick a nationality sometime between his/her 20th and 21st birthday. However, it appears that if the child was born to a Thai national (the situations we are discussing here), then they don't have to choose and can retain both. Given that there are some very senior Thai nationals who do carry two passports, I would be surprised if this changes anytime soon.

I too asked this question when we went through the process. The answers I received was that adopted children that are Thai nationals are able to hold dual citizenship. Now remember that just because you are adopting a Thai Child that doesn't give them automatic citizenship. At least to the USA. I really don't know about other countries.

Barry

I don't know about other countries either, but as it relates to the process for the US, I gave a brief overview to the OP in a previous message in this thread. I completed this process only a few months ago, so it is still clear in my mind. For the US, you can't even begin the process of US citizenship until you can show that the Thai adoption was legally finalized two years prior. Then on to Homeland Security and once approved, then on to the US Embassy for the final interview, medical exam, letter of support and additional documents.

The key thing for the OP to note is that he will be told by various people along the way that US citizenship for an adopted child isn't possible unless he will be bringing the child to the US to live. While this used to be true, it isn't anymore thanks to Pres. Bill Clinton who put through the Child Citizenship Act of 2001 (CCA). The people at the US Embassy were wonderful in first telling me about the CCA, then giving me advice on how best to follow it.

lets say that the Thai side of the adoption is OK. For the adoption to be recognized internationally the step daughter would have to become a US citizen. My wife has no desire to become a US citizen and we don't have any plans to ever reside in the US. How would this impact an adoption application at the US Embassy (CCA notwithstanding)?

Edited April 7, 2006 by tutsiwarrior

[Old Man River]

Is there an issue of the children losing Thai citizenship if they are adopted?

I assume the ideal situation would be that both your wife and her children are able to live permanently in either Thailand, or your home country, whichever is better for them.

Anyway, best of luck.

Good question. This is something that all of us who are foreign nationals that have adopted Thai children have been concerned with. Accordingly, there is a great deal of information on this subject in Thai Visa, including an English translation of the relevant Thai law. The bottom line is that while the law does not specifically state that dual citizenship is legal, it also doesn't specifically state that it is not legal. The law does state that if a child is born to an alien father, then the child must pick a nationality sometime between his/her 20th and 21st birthday. However, it appears that if the child was born to a Thai national (the situations we are discussing here), then they don't have to choose and can retain both. Given that there are some very senior Thai nationals who do carry two passports, I would be surprised if this changes anytime soon.

I too asked this question when we went through the process. The answers I received was that adopted children that are Thai nationals are able to hold dual citizenship. Now remember that just because you are adopting a Thai Child that doesn't give them automatic citizenship. At least to the USA. I really don't know about other countries.

Barry

I don't know about other countries either, but as it relates to the process for the US, I gave a brief overview to the OP in a previous message in this thread. I completed this process only a few months ago, so it is still clear in my mind. For the US, you can't even begin the process of US citizenship until you can show that the Thai adoption was legally finalized two years prior. Then on to Homeland Security and once approved, then on to the US Embassy for the final interview, medical exam, letter of support and additional documents.

The key thing for the OP to note is that he will be told by various people along the way that US citizenship for an adopted child isn't possible unless he will be bringing the child to the US to live. While this used to be true, it isn't anymore thanks to Pres. Bill Clinton who put through the Child Citizenship Act of 2001 (CCA). The people at the US Embassy were wonderful in first telling me about the CCA, then giving me advice on how best to follow it.

lets say that the Thai side of the adoption is OK. For the adoption to be recognized internationally the step daughter would have to become a US citizen. My wife has no desire to become a US citizen and we don't have any plans to ever reside in the US. How would this impact an adoption application at the US Embassy (CCA notwithstanding)?

From memory (I may have finalized this process a few months ago, but started several years ago), the fact that your wife is not a US citizen and the fact that you don't wish to reside in the US should not impact whether your daughter becomes a US citizen or not. While my wife is a dual national, I cannot remember one document that she needed to sign as a US citizen. There is a lot of general info on this process on the US government websites, and I would read up on it first. I am sure those of us that have completed the process would help guide you through the process.

[rcalsop]

Get the biological deadbeat father out of the way ....If your wife is from a small village this can be quite easy as the officials know the truth of the situation ..and will usually give great help . Step one is to have your wife appointed as the sole guardian and registered as such ..then start with the adoption procedures .

It is better if the biological father will sign the forms to have his exwife a sole guardian ( try to stay clear at this stage ) but if he cannot be traced after official papers have been served I believe the sole guardian ship can still be awarded with out his signature .

Get him clear with no potential of screwing the kids out of the money /property if anything happens to you . ,then start with the objective of securing correct passports /citizen ship or rights to give the kids workable options , It is also nice to have the family all with one name .

good luck !