Japan Says It Faces Increasing Threats from China, North Korea

[Publicus]

Well, you oversimplify the issue in your first point - if you live in a 'with us or against us' world then you are the loser in this while game because there shades of gray and only an imbecile accepts everything carte blanche

Your second point here (my apologies that I cut the sentences between the two) is so very spot on. Obstinate is a very, very apt description. Very apt.

I've been in China possibly 20 times on business and my brother and his wife both worked for embassies in Beijing . . . and though it can be quite an interesting place . . . in the end you just want to leave.

You're talking about the CCP-PRC, not the United States. It's Beijing and the PRChinese who live in the 'with us or against us' world.

Bush and the neocons are gone forever from power in Washington - they completely discredited themselves in their cynical overreaction to 9/11 and by their own concomitant 'with us or against us' attitudes. Those times are forever gone from Washington.

Sadly it isn't over in the US, is it . . . yes, the bad old days of 'Freedom Fries' and 'Old Europe' and the like have passed from an overt to a style that still exists quite nicely in a large swathe of a population and political circles. You don't eradicate the problem simply by changing a few people at the top.

I wish it were the case of 'gone forever' but it isn't.

The PRC is the same . . . but then they are encircled almost completely by 'enemies', whereas the US isn't, never has been - an advantage of almost being a continent and bordered by only two countries (one of them Canada, eh!)

The PRC can direct the populace back to the bad old times when they were invaded, occupied etc . . .

The PRC has more of a cause celebre in this game whereas the US now has the bad Muslims who have replaced the awful Communists, the horrible Nazis and the despicable Japanese as their enemy du jour.

I don't believe the US is the 'victim' in all of this, and portraying it as such is simply silly

Unless you see it this way:

The CCP convinces its sheeple that it is the victim. The CCP deliberately and systematically has created a vengeful population of sheeple.

The U.S. is the victim of no one. It always has been the target of, first, the colonial powers of Europe then, in the 20th century, of communism, fascism. Communism and fascism have since joined in the CCP-PRC, which presents us with 21st century fascism with Chinese characteristics.

It's unfortunate also that so many western Europeans and some in N America suffer a cultural deficit concerning the United States. I've had the misfortune to experience the cultural deficits a countless number of times, endlessly. The cultural deficits are associated with shocking intellectual deficits as well.

[Scott]

The central theme of this thread is about Japan and it's struggles with China and North Korea. A discussion of the US and 'with us/against us' policies is off-topic.

Thanks.

[Publicus]

The CCP-PRC has just completed its newest project in its maritime aggression against Japan and many Asean countries. It has unified several maritime enforcement or surveillance agencies under one new organization, the PRChinese Coast Guard.

This major escalation shows a further determination by the Boyz in Beijing to enforce their own laws which recognize their belligerent territorial assertions and which override the International Law of the Sea.

Worse times are coming for Japan in the East China Sea and for Asean countries in the South China Sea, both being misnomers in the first place.

No, China’s Coast Guard Won’t Reduce Tensions

http://thediplomat.com/the-naval-diplomat/2013/07/29/no-chinas-coast-guard-wont-reduce-tensions/

[boomerangutang]

there's a letter in today's Nation - touching on this topic

[jamhar]

Geeze pub! Give me some reading material, will ya?

PS... Thanks gots lots of reading to do!

Boomer, got a link? My connection is really slow where I am this week. to much bandwidth search

[Publicus]

The Boyz in Beijing continue to blame everyone except themselves for creating a climate of apprehension and, in some governments, a clear sense of fear due to the CCP's aggressiveness toward its neighbors in the Indo-Pacific strategic region.

The CCP-PRC has become the neighbor from hell for nations of the entire Indo-Pacific region, prompting new alliances and expanding existing alliances among governments of the region themselves and with the United States.

Japan and India have developed new naval and closer diplomatic ties during the past year in direct response to Beijing's aggressions and false assertions of its sovereignty over territories of both countries. Beijing has gone as far as to say Okinawa belongs to the CCP-PRC, which is one of the most absurd assertions of all.

Has the world ever known a powerful one party state dictatorship that doesn't have designs to lord over all the world?

The major problem for Beijing is it knows that before it can become a global power, it must first become a regional power. Its recent campaign to become regionally dominant has only isolated it from just about all of the countries of the Indo-Pacific Region. Beijing is getting nowhere fast in its ongoing campaign to become the regionally dominant power.

So now Beijing has taken to complaining and lashing out, and to increasing its military threats against its neighbors.

Chinese state-run newspaper accuses Japan of trying to ‘encircle’ China

http://japandailypress.com/chinese-state-run-newspaper-accuses-japan-of-trying-to-encircle-china-3029777/

It appears that the number of deals and agreements made between India and Japan over the last few days have put Chinese media in quite a sour mood. Just as Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh finished his four-day visit to Tokyo to meet with Japanese premier Shinzo Abe, China’s state-run militant Global Times newspaper wrote that Japan was trying to “encircle” its neighboring country with strategic alliances.

This is already the second bitter criticism in less than a week from China, as earlier in the week the People’s Daily, another government-backed outlet, called Japan’s politicians “petty burglars” for trying to court India. These editorials are starting to self-portray China as somewhat of a jilted lover when it comes to India, when in fact they may never have really had much of a relationship to begin with.

China says Japan is moving towards ‘strategic hostility’ over island dispute

http://japandailypress.com/china-says-japan-is-moving-towards-strategic-hostility-over-island-dispute-1232193/

Relations between Japan and China may have hit an all-time low this year, as tensions over territorial sovereignty of an uninhabited island chain in the East China Sea continue.

Already strained by history and memories of Japan’s imperialistic past, recent actions and comments by Japanese leaders have all contributed to Chinese opinion that there may not be an improvement any time soon.

Comments from Chinese state media regarding the Japanese stance – combined with the release of a Japan defense ministry report that portrays China as a threat – says that Japan may be dangerously moving from something controllable (a territorial dispute) to what it calls “strategic hostility”.

SPECIAL REPORT: China's military hawks take the offensive

http://www.interaksyon.com/article/52931/special-report-chinas-military-hawks-take-the-offensive

The Air Force Colonel, Dai Xu, is renowned for his regular calls to arms. With China in dispute for much of last year with Japan in the East China Sea and Vietnam and the Philippines in the South China Sea, Dai argued a short, decisive war, like China's 1962 border clash with India, would deliver long-term peace. He also said Washington would not risk war with China over these territorial spats.

"Since we have decided that the U.S. is bluffing in the East China Sea, we should take this opportunity to respond to these empty provocations with something real," he wrote in an August 28 commentary published in the Chinese-language edition of the Global Times, a nationalistic tabloid published by the Communist Party organ, the People's Daily.

"This includes Vietnam, the Philippines and Japan, who are the three running dogs of the United States in Asia," added Dai, a researcher at Beijing University's China Centre for Strategic Studies. "We only need to kill one, and it will immediately bring the others to heel."

Dai cited the ancient Chinese proverb, "Kill the chicken to scare the monkeys."

North Korea, China in the spotlight at Asia security forum

http://www.interaksyon.com/article/65436/north-korea-china-in-the-spotlight-at-asia-security-forum

North Korea came under fire at an Asia-Pacific security forum Tuesday as foreign ministers called on the defiant communist state to end its nuclear weapons program.

Participants in the ASEAN Regional Forum, which include 26 countries across the Asia-Pacific and the European Union, sent a "very strong message" to North Korea, Seoul's envoy said.

"Most ministers at the meeting expressed a very strong message to the North Korean delegation that they should denuclearize, they should refrain from provocative action," South Korean Foreign Minister Yun Byung-Se told reporters on the sidelines. "So they have to listen to these messages very seriously."

A Japanese foreign ministry spokesman said Tuesday a number of countries in the closed-door talks made statements "criticising North Korea's provocative recent actions and requesting compliance with" UN Security Council restrictions imposed upon it.

US general says aggressive Chinese territorial claims bring risks of 'miscalculations'

http://www.interaksyon.com/article/67494/aggressive-chinese-territorial-claims-bring-risks-of-miscalculations-us-general

Aggressive moves by China to assert territorial claims run the risk of "miscalculations" but are also helping Washington strengthen ties with other countries in the region, the general who commands US air forces in the Pacific said Monday.

"Being fairly aggressive runs the risk of creating the potential for miscalculation," Air Force General Herb Carlisle told defense reporters in Washington. "That's something we think about every day."

The United States is shifting its military and diplomatic focus to the Asia Pacific region partly because of a buildup by Beijing. China has been involved in territorial disputes with the Philippines and Vietnam over islands in the South China Sea and with Japan over the uninhabited Senkaku islands.

Gen Carlisle said he was concerned that some of China's actions could trigger a larger response. "It's a complex, changing environment," he said. "Every action has unintended consequences and second and third order effects."

[SinglePot]

very interesting.

Killing the chicken might awaken a sleeping giant.

[Publicus]

Since the Philippines is another Beijing targeted country, it also has developed a new strategic relationship with Japan in the effort to foil Beijing's ongoing campaign to become the regional dominant power of the Indo-Pacific Strategic Region.

The Philippines’ Search for Strategic Partners Includes Japan

http://thediplomat.com/2013/07/23/the-philippines-search-for-strategic-partners/

Edited August 2, 2013 by Publicus

[SinglePot]

Does Anybody like China?

I seem to remember seeing something a while back about China and Russia engaging in a naval exercise together.

Their historical paths seem to be on a similar course.

[SinglePot]

http://english.ruvr.ru/news/2013_07_11/China-Russia-complete-extensive-naval-exercise-9701/

[Scott]

Maybe Syria? Maybe Pakistan? There are some African countries that probably like China.

I think the relevant question is how much do they trust China.

[jamhar]

Does Anybody like China?

I seem to remember seeing something a while back about China and Russia engaging in a naval exercise together.

Their historical paths seem to be on a similar course.

Yep.

[Publicus]

The completely unfounded territorial aggressions and bellicose language of Beijing throughout the Indo-Pacific Region is sending the world back in time. The CCP-PRC fascist dictatorship is a reactionary presence and force of the world.

Anyway, the Japanese say this this is a "Destroyer" warship. This ship is in reality an aircraft carrier, albeit a modest one - if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quack likes a duck, it's a duck.

(BTW the above graphic is too large, thus throwing this page off its margins.).

Japan's Giant New 'Destroyer' Sends A Clear Message To China, The World

REUTERS

Sixty-eight years to the day of the Hiroshima bombing, Japan unveiled its new naval "destroyer" that happens to have a flat-top — dubbed "Izumo" — capable of carrying various rotary-wing aviation units, reports Eric Talmadge of ABC.

Consequently, it's also the biggest since WWII ... and since Japan's official army was disbanded.

The new warship comes as Chinese officials say the country is in "no rush" to sign a code of conduct guiding military behavior in the contested South China Sea or concerning islands located between China and Japan which are owned by Japan but militantly claimed by China..

From ABC:

ome experts believe the new Japanese ship could potentially be used in the future to launch fighter jets or other aircraft that have the ability to take off vertically. That would be a departure for Japan, which has one of the best equipped and best trained naval forces in the Pacific but which has not sought to build aircraft carriers of its own because of constitutional restrictions that limit its military forces to a defensive role

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/japans-giant-new-destroyer-sends-a-clear-message-to-china-the-world-2013-8#ixzz2bFjS5iQp

[Publicus]

Does Anybody like China?

I seem to remember seeing something a while back about China and Russia engaging in a naval exercise together.

Their historical paths seem to be on a similar course.

Yep.

China's shape on a map makes it look like a Klingon warship poised to attack.

[mania]

It is like a fear mongering blog in here

[Publicus]

It is like a fear mongering blog in here

The dictators in Beijing know that before they can become a global power they must first become a regional power.

The CCP-PRC will be neither.

[LawrenceChee]

The relationships of China and neighbors has many components that make it hard for any easy agreement

The Koreans while having a common ally in the USA have a very uneasy past with Japan's past occupation and colonization of its land ...the culture and values are distinctly different and SK sees NK as a bigger threat than China, as such dedicating resources to assist it collaborate with the Japanese is rather mute and slim

The Chinese will never forget the transgressions of Japan during WWII ...hard for the folks from the USA or UK to understand until u have that many swing over in a boat and raped your womenfolk in mass numbers ...and the tortures inflicted on the men for no reason except being a Chinese man

My distant relative died of water boarding during the war ...the solders force u to drink water from a water hose till your stomach is bloated and take turns jumping off a platform to see u puke for entertainment till u die ....lots done to the Chinese during the war in china and neighboring countries including Singapore that makes the Chinese very wary of the Japanese

As this is less than 70 years ago, one can hardly expect the Chinese to forget that brutality or for the Japanese to act like meek cats and pretend to be the victims here

The Japanese has a very well oiled defense force and a hefty budget ...it does not have a military due to the terms of surrender but they certainly have a defense force that one would be silly to neglect or underestimate due to their ability to organize themselves and technology advances

No one would argue the USA has the best weaponry in the world right now ...however when it comes to fighting on land and fighting a prolonged war or occupation ...the USA have a sad history of not being able to follow through or have the tenacity to fight a ground war. The Chinese have the ground advantage and the experience

The Chinese have over years built up their army and unlike the USA do by declassify their info or publish it which is much smarter and leave everyone thinking really what can they do and cannot do ...I have entertained the Chinese generals in hotel business and a glimpse here and there tells me a fool will take them lightly

Only a dumb military commander will think they can bomb china into submission ...and walk into their ports ..their infrastructure and fast railways have given them a military movement they never had before during the boxing rebellion and a lesson learnt they will never forget

Being a neighbor of NK has taught them how to build underground cities on the scale that is rather scary.

So I agree Japanese has a lot to fear but Abe is hawkish and has his own agenda as well

As for those who think Chinese is in this for the oil and gas and fisheries right ..u are right ...it's all for commercial reasons

[SinglePot]

"As for those who think Chinese is in this for the oil and gas and fisheries right ..u are right ...it's all for commercial reasons."

South China Sea maybe.

East China Sea. As you rightly point out, they probably have an axe to grind.

China ain't too happy with the 'British and the Opium Wars' legacy either.

A nation with a big inferiority complex having been left behind in the war of commercial success.

Volatile and dangerous.

[Publicus]

The relationships of China and neighbors has many components that make it hard for any easy agreement

The Koreans while having a common ally in the USA have a very uneasy past with Japan's past occupation and colonization of its land ...the culture and values are distinctly different and SK sees NK as a bigger threat than China, as such dedicating resources to assist it collaborate with the Japanese is rather mute and slim

The Chinese will never forget the transgressions of Japan during WWII ...hard for the folks from the USA or UK to understand until u have that many swing over in a boat and raped your womenfolk in mass numbers ...and the tortures inflicted on the men for no reason except being a Chinese man

My distant relative died of water boarding during the war ...the solders force u to drink water from a water hose till your stomach is bloated and take turns jumping off a platform to see u puke for entertainment till u die ....lots done to the Chinese during the war in china and neighboring countries including Singapore that makes the Chinese very wary of the Japanese

As this is less than 70 years ago, one can hardly expect the Chinese to forget that brutality or for the Japanese to act like meek cats and pretend to be the victims here

The Japanese has a very well oiled defense force and a hefty budget ...it does not have a military due to the terms of surrender but they certainly have a defense force that one would be silly to neglect or underestimate due to their ability to organize themselves and technology advances

No one would argue the USA has the best weaponry in the world right now ...however when it comes to fighting on land and fighting a prolonged war or occupation ...the USA have a sad history of not being able to follow through or have the tenacity to fight a ground war. The Chinese have the ground advantage and the experience

The Chinese have over years built up their army and unlike the USA do by declassify their info or publish it which is much smarter and leave everyone thinking really what can they do and cannot do ...I have entertained the Chinese generals in hotel business and a glimpse here and there tells me a fool will take them lightly

Only a dumb military commander will think they can bomb china into submission ...and walk into their ports ..their infrastructure and fast railways have given them a military movement they never had before during the boxing rebellion and a lesson learnt they will never forget

Being a neighbor of NK has taught them how to build underground cities on the scale that is rather scary.

So I agree Japanese has a lot to fear but Abe is hawkish and has his own agenda as well

As for those who think Chinese is in this for the oil and gas and fisheries right ..u are right ...it's all for commercial reasons

The principal problem with the Chinese is that they take everything personally, i.e., that they are THE CHINESE. That is, once you offend "The Chinese" you are marked for vengeance for all eternity, repeatedly.

The Chinese don't know the vital principle of forgive and forget. Or, that if you can't forget, then for the sake of the present and the future, forgive. Instead, the Chinese are naturally and historically grudge oriented and vengeful, which is an ancient and self-destructive attitude the Chinese can't ever get past.

The PRChinese are still fighting the Opium Wars and the incursions inflicted on them by the Eight Powers more than a hundred years ago. The 2.3 million man PLArmy is a waste of time, resources and effort because no one is going to invade the PRC. Having such a massive army is a fool's errand as is the present mindset of preparing to fight the wars of a hundred years ago.

No one is planning to bomb the PRC into submission or walk into its ports. That's a backward looking mindset of 150 years ago, which makes it a dangerous and also a wasteful, unrealistic mindset.

One should never underestimate one's enemy, however, the PRChinese PLA hasn't fought a land, air or naval war since the Korean Conflict of the 1950s and a brief CCP initiated border war against India in 1962. The PLA is untested militarily. The PLA fails to take into account that the first casualty once the reality of a war begins is the massively thought through battle plan.

The current CCP-PRC fascist dictatorship wants to lord over the globe, so it is intent on becoming a regional power now. Beijing knows that before it can become a global power, it must first become a regional power. Beijing's current aggressions and belligerence against its neighbors means it will become neither.

[SinglePot]

I hope you are right in your conclusion Publicus.

They don't seem to be doing much for people's piece of mind and quality of life in the meantime.

PRC will presumably get what they deserve in the long run.

A toxic nation currently.

[boomerangutang]

Wow, that photo of the new Japanese carrier shows a similar 'christmas tree' design bridge, as they had for their old carriers in WWII. Is that any nuttier than me driving a Mitsubishi car? I don't know.

[SinglePot]

Wow, that photo of the new Japanese carrier shows a similar 'christmas tree' design bridge, as they had for their old carriers in WWII. Is that any nuttier than me driving a Mitsubishi car? I don't know.

Better than driving a Great Wall Steed boomer.

Smiley bloke doing a wai.

[LawrenceChee]

Publius

Lots of words and your general view is not indicative of what's on the ground

The Chinese is by nature more commercial minded than war minded ...however guarding its interest for 1.3 billion people in terms of food, natural resources and growing means that most times your interests will not best serve another and cause green eyes like we see today.

They have learnt about diversification early and reaping the rewards for that by trading with every country out there without regards to the conditions the west like to tie it to

China's past history with the region means no one is ever happy about having such a powerful neighbor at your doorstep

As for its caution against the west, they will do well to remember everything the USA has done is the region include bombing out the defenseless ( Laos , Vietnam , Thailand) and using chemicals warfare that is still lingering ...easy to revoke the biblical forgive and forget but these memories and the recent ones in Iraq and Afghanistan tells us the USA is no different from others who have conquered or assisted for their own commercial interests

So how is the USA less tyrannical in its actions or less vocal ? Is a vocal china not allowed or only the west allowed to express its views about its lands and what they deem theirs.

The PLA may not have fought a war as mentioned since the 50s but its a good thing ...they never should do anything more than defend its own country instead of trying to stay relevant by fighting everywhere and establishing bases in countries no host country actually want and can only tolerate

Anyone that equates an army with no field experience to being ineffective in warfare would best remember the USA have never succeeded in one campaign in Asia as well.

You can bomb in a war ( subject to accuracy and budget $$) but when it's comes to a ground war the troopers have very little success in Asia to talk about after post WWII as the tenacity of the soldiers in this region cannot be discounted as in any region

The Asians deserve every bit of respect the west ask for.

[Publicus]

Wow, that photo of the new Japanese carrier shows a similar 'christmas tree' design bridge, as they had for their old carriers in WWII. Is that any nuttier than me driving a Mitsubishi car? I don't know.

Yeah, the conning tower has the same WW II look, design.

It's an inefficient design because it physically separates the organization of the carrier's command, communications, control structure and its organization, systems. It decreases the mobility of personnel in command should the central mast be damaged during combat.

Admittedly, it was a difficult, slender profile target for WW II propeller pilots to hit. However, one cruise missile today will snap that sucker in half.

The upright conning tower rectangle of U.S. carriers then and now is decidedly a better structure. Blowing a hole or two in it doesn't destroy the whole structure of it. And the cons of present US carriers are much smaller than the WW II ones, constituting less of a target.

[SinglePot]

Wow, that photo of the new Japanese carrier shows a similar 'christmas tree' design bridge, as they had for their old carriers in WWII. Is that any nuttier than me driving a Mitsubishi car? I don't know.

Yeah, the conning tower has the same WW II look, design.

It's an inefficient design because it physically separates the organization of the carrier's command, communications, control structure and its organization, systems. It decreases the mobility of personnel in command should the central mast be damaged during combat.

Admittedly, it was a difficult, slender profile target for WW II propeller pilots to hit. However, one cruise missile today will snap that sucker in half.

The upright conning tower rectangle of U.S. carriers then and now is decidedly a better structure. Blowing a hole or two in it doesn't destroy the whole structure of it. And the cons of present US carriers are much smaller than the WW II ones, constituting less of a target.

Yep. Empire of the Sun.

All we need now is a P51 Mustang. "Cadillac of the Skies"

[Publicus]

Wow, that photo of the new Japanese carrier shows a similar 'christmas tree' design bridge, as they had for their old carriers in WWII. Is that any nuttier than me driving a Mitsubishi car? I don't know.

Yeah, the conning tower has the same WW II look, design.

It's an inefficient design because it physically separates the organization of the carrier's command, communications, control structure and its organization, systems. It decreases the mobility of personnel in command should the central mast be damaged during combat.

Admittedly, it was a difficult, slender profile target for WW II propeller pilots to hit. However, one cruise missile today will snap that sucker in half.

The upright conning tower rectangle of U.S. carriers then and now is decidedly a better structure. Blowing a hole or two in it doesn't destroy the whole structure of it. And the cons of present US carriers are much smaller than the WW II ones, constituting less of a target.

Yep. Empire of the Sun.

All we need now is a P51 Mustang. "Cadillac of the Skies"

Christian Bale in that movie showed his awesome acting and he did it as a kid.

Spitfire pilots said sitting in the cockpit made you and the plane feel as one, that maneuvering it was an easy matter like moving your arms and legs.

Yeah, the P-51 meant the end of the Third Reich. The allies' Cadillac of the Skies was Hitler's hearse.

Gotta bet back to business now.

[Publicus]

Publius

Lots of words and your general view is not indicative of what's on the ground

The Chinese is by nature more commercial minded than war minded ...however guarding its interest for 1.3 billion people in terms of food, natural resources and growing means that most times your interests will not best serve another and cause green eyes like we see today.

They have learnt about diversification early and reaping the rewards for that by trading with every country out there without regards to the conditions the west like to tie it to

China's past history with the region means no one is ever happy about having such a powerful neighbor at your doorstep

As for its caution against the west, they will do well to remember everything the USA has done is the region include bombing out the defenseless ( Laos , Vietnam , Thailand) and using chemicals warfare that is still lingering ...easy to revoke the biblical forgive and forget but these memories and the recent ones in Iraq and Afghanistan tells us the USA is no different from others who have conquered or assisted for their own commercial interests

So how is the USA less tyrannical in its actions or less vocal ? Is a vocal china not allowed or only the west allowed to express its views about its lands and what they deem theirs.

The PLA may not have fought a war as mentioned since the 50s but its a good thing ...they never should do anything more than defend its own country instead of trying to stay relevant by fighting everywhere and establishing bases in countries no host country actually want and can only tolerate

Anyone that equates an army with no field experience to being ineffective in warfare would best remember the USA have never succeeded in one campaign in Asia as well.

You can bomb in a war ( subject to accuracy and budget $$) but when it's comes to a ground war the troopers have very little success in Asia to talk about after post WWII as the tenacity of the soldiers in this region cannot be discounted as in any region

The Asians deserve every bit of respect the west ask for.

Dictatorship, which is the Chinese philosophy of government - as old as China itself - is an ancient idea that in the modern and future world is a cruel idea and a reactionary idea, a self defeating idea. It has no mitigating features or aspects. Dictatorship appeals to no one other than the dwindling number of the world's population who are naturally corrupt authoritarians.

The CCP is the only government of the world that has a Nobel Peace Laureate, Dr Liu Xiaobo imprisoned because he advocates a peaceful, slow, gradual evolution of the CCP-PRC to democracy.

The Chinese are only recently commercially minded, since the Industrial Revolution but latecomers to it at that. Confucius, whose codes only formalized a previously long exiting Chinese culture, disrespected merchants and their profit motive, which the attitude that prevailed in China until only recently. Now the profit motive is the key to the survival of the new dynasty of emperors in Beijing who wear business suits, the CCP. And the CCP is a young and nervous dynasty, not much longer for this world.

Yes, trade with the CCP-PRC does not pay any mind to child labor, a safe and sanitary work environment, the dignity, value and health of working people, the effects of industry on the physical environment, decent housing/dormatories, human rights and so much else. I have this knowledge from being right here on the ground you reference, and from having been here for several years. You fail to read this reality.

The Boyz in Beijing have transformed the CCP-PRC into a fascist dictatorship with 21st century Chinese characteristics. A major claim of their legitimacy to the sheeple of the CCP-PRC is 'lebensraum,' as the absurd number of 1,350,000,000 Chinese are causing the country to burst at the seams.

China and India are in fact freak of nature countries, as no other country of the world even remotely approaches one billion of population. One peninsula in the northeast of the PRChina is the size of Texas yet has more people than all of the United States. You brought this on yourselves and have no one else to blame, though you target others for your expansions such as the Tibetans and the Turkic speaking people of the westernmost region of the CCP-PRC you call Xin Jiang.

Now comes the CCP's aggressions and bellicosity towards the entire Indo-Pacific strategic region. Beijing and the sheeple of the PRC claim all of the South China Sea as its sovereign territory, claim Taiwan is a province of the CCP-PRC and have many old scores to settle against Japan across the East China Sea. All these sea names are misnomers but never mind that particular point because it hasn't any bearing on reality under the UN International Law of the Sea which Beijing denies despite being a signatory.

The aggressions of the CCP-PRC towards the Indo-Pacific region is creating alliances and unity against the belligerence and bellicosity of the aggressive fascist dictators of Beijing. The flaws of democracy, which the CCP detests, and of the United States - to include the West - pale in comparison to the horrors of a fascist government in Beijing that shoots a still unknown number of its own citizens as occurred on June 4th 1989 when tens of thousands of PRC youth gathered and demonstrated in Tianamen Square for democracy and an end to 5000 continuous years of dictatorship.

[SinglePot]

My experience of China is on the ground and recent, having worked in Beijing for a year for a US company.

I read Chinese press coverage and Western press coverage on the topic of this thread.

I read and saw many things in Beijing which made me as a British person feel very uncomfortable.

I have sympathy for Publicus' concern and criticism.

Japan are constitutionally obliged to adopt a defensive position.

It is a pity there is no constitutional system in china that provides moderation of any kind.

[LawrenceChee]

Have worked 10 years in china for differing projects working with government levels ..allow me to share my views

The press in china is decidedly pro-china and bashes the west ....as I travel to the west and USA, the press does the same and I think this is freedom of expression of views. There are views in British and USA papers that make me shudder at the one sided view but this is freedom of press

They are not new to commercial success...anyone with a chinese neighbor would know they have commerce in their DNA ..makes for greens eyes but the Chinese have been trading for thousand of years

Anyone who does not have a closed view also would have in their experiences great Chinese neighbors and friends as much as there are Chinese ones who are not open minded and not nice to deal with. The west similarly have the same and one cannot brush the experiences of one

U view it as a dictatorship ...if they adopt the western model where the democrats and the republicans have their own views and the government is changed every 4 years, would that best serve the interest of china with higher developmental needs and not making the same mistake of the west ?

In my opinion the 10 years work better for them and similarly china officials have observed what western democracy is and agrees it does not work for them.

As for the deploring conditions in factory, I agree with you and the government officials too. They have asked me repeatedly as I work with the western based companies not be such cheap asses and stop demanding cheap prices ...I agree too.

Pay the fair rates and the workers get better pay and there is less pollution in Beijing. Stop bashing china for poor quality goods when the orders are places by the customers

The recent meat scandals in Europe and price fixing of western milk companies show that the west is not beyond the blames and is also affected by the greed they freely accused china of.

As for tiananmen the wet use it as beacon of human rights oppression in china...they have improved over the years but the poster bashers are not keen ...similarly in the west there are thins to be ashamed of ...lots of discrimination and lots still get marginalized but this is life and u don't see the Chinese bashing the west for it

As for the shootings of prisoners ...I think less die for in china as compared to the innocent people who die from gunfire incidents ...

[SinglePot]

Well, if your'e happy with a society that is illustrated by this example, up to you.

" I'm driving a BMW. You are riding a bicycle. Get out of my way you piece of sh***"