Snowden agrees to asylum in Venezuela: Russian lawmaker

[F430murci]

Didn't someone recently comment on here that was is ridiculous to compare US and Russia's current relationship to cold war relationship?

Russia's protection of NSA leaker Edward Snowden, who is hoping for temporary asylum in Moscow, is President Vladimir Putin's latest show of disdain for U.S. wishes and a sign that U.S.-Russian relations are at one of their lowest points since the end of the Cold War, experts say.

"It's pretty bad," says Ariel Cohen, a Russia expert at the Heritage Foundation. "U.S.-Russia relations are at their nadir, rock bottom since the end of the Cold War."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/07/25/snowden-us-russia-relations/2583677/

Any wonder why Putin is treating Bama as his b*tch over Snowden? This Snowden article illustrates how Putin is not returning Bama and has no respect for Bama.

"All this comes despite Obama's vow early in office top hit a "reset" button in U.S.-Russian relations by listening more to Russian concerns. Obama suspended longtime efforts to deploy a defensive missile shield in Eastern Europe at Russia's request and backed its permanent membership in the World Trade Organization.

Obama also acquiesced to Putin's position of nuclear arms reductions, and famously told former prime minister Dmitri Medvedev in 2012 that he would have "more flexibility" on U.S-Russia issues if elected to a second term. Putin has said often he is acting in the best interest of Russia and has said he wishes to return his nation to the status of a superpower it held prior to the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991.

Putin says he is arming Assad because he is concerned a Sunni Islamist victory there will spillover into Russia's Caucasus region, where Russia has fought a decades-long war against an Islamist insurgency, Cohen said.

Russia has also banned U.S. organizations that promote political activism and free speech overseas.

Russian "policy is to blame the United States for everything that is going on in the world and in Russia and attempt to consolidate popular support of the regime by manufacturing an external threat," Cohen said. "Communist Russia used to do the same thing."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/07/25/snowden-us-russia-relations/2583677/

[Scott]

Continued trolling is going to result in a suspension.

Stay on the topic.

[jamhar]

10.43am and 30 degrees in Caracas, Venezuela.

Caipirinha on the beach F430?

cheers.

OK That did it. I'm changing my drink tonight to Caipirinha! or maybe a Mojito!

I wonder what Snowden is having......

[SinglePot]

Latest news on a parallel issue quoted by other posters previously.

"Bradley Manning 'betrayed his country' - prosecutor"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23453836

Heroic acts on behalf of US citizens by Mr Snowden are fine.

Should it go beyond US borders one might wish to take a different view perhaps?

Anybody seen Sarah Harrison of wikileaks recently? The closest contact to Snowden appears to be a lawyer put in place by Putin.

[Scott]

Once again, a large number of off-topic posts have been deleted because the discussion is in the wrong thread. This thread is about his Asylum claim.

[jamhar]

Maybe a new twist in the snowden asylum dance?

U.S. assures Russia Snowden won't be executed or tortured

http://news.yahoo.com/u-pens-letter-russia-promising-protections-snowden-143538094.html

Or maybe just another delaying tactic of point/counterpoint while Putin's guys trys to decrypt the copy of snowdens harddrives.

[antfish]

Maybe a new twist in the snowden asylum dance?

U.S. assures Russia Snowden won't be executed or tortured

http://news.yahoo.com/u-pens-letter-russia-promising-protections-snowden-143538094.html

Or maybe just another delaying tactic of point/counterpoint while Putin's guys trys to decrypt the copy of snowdens harddrives.

Didn't the Russians say that in their eyes and according to their laws they cannot see any wrong doings in Snowdens action and therefore see no reason or legal way to extradite him. no matter if torture and death penalty awaits him or not.

the threat of torture and death penalty might play a part in Snowdens reasoning to claim asylum.

and it doesn't sound very convincing to me when the Americans say "we don't torture".

[simple1]

Maybe a new twist in the snowden asylum dance?

U.S. assures Russia Snowden won't be executed or tortured

http://news.yahoo.com/u-pens-letter-russia-promising-protections-snowden-143538094.html

Or maybe just another delaying tactic of point/counterpoint while Putin's guys trys to decrypt the copy of snowdens harddrives.

Didn't the Russians say that in their eyes and according to their laws they cannot see any wrong doings in Snowdens action and therefore see no reason or legal way to extradite him. no matter if torture and death penalty awaits him or not.

the threat of torture and death penalty might play a part in Snowdens reasoning to claim asylum.

and it doesn't sound very convincing to me when the Americans say "we don't torture".

My immediate though was that it's a sad day for the reputation of the USA when US officials feel obliged to state that they will not torture someone in their custody.

Edited July 27, 2013 by simple1

[F430murci]

Maybe a new twist in the snowden asylum dance?

U.S. assures Russia Snowden won't be executed or tortured

http://news.yahoo.com/u-pens-letter-russia-promising-protections-snowden-143538094.html

Or maybe just another delaying tactic of point/counterpoint while Putin's guys trys to decrypt the copy of snowdens harddrives.

Didn't the Russians say that in their eyes and according to their laws they cannot see any wrong doings in Snowdens action and therefore see no reason or legal way to extradite him. no matter if torture and death penalty awaits him or not.

the threat of torture and death penalty might play a part in Snowdens reasoning to claim asylum.

and it doesn't sound very convincing to me when the Americans say "we don't torture".

My immediate though was that it's a sad day when US officials feel obliged to state that they will not torture someone in custody

I think this was in response to Russia saying not sending back doe to Snowden's concerns that he will be tortured or put to death. Although I think it was a ridiculously weak move to even say or to say publicly, US was attempting to remove Russia's articulated basis for not returning him.

It's not like the US is going to stone him to death slowly in a public display or behead him him in public.

[SinglePot]

And all the time the US gets its knickers in a twist the Russians and the Chinese laugh.

Russia and China don't have Snowdens. They deal with them.

US promising Russia to be kind on Snowden is ironic beyond belief.

And stupid, because it gives Russia leverage.

[antfish]

I think this was in response to Russia saying not sending back doe to Snowden's concerns that he will be tortured or put to death. Although I think it was a ridiculously weak move to even say or to say publicly, US was attempting to remove Russia's articulated basis for not returning him.

It's not like the US is going to stone him to death slowly in a public display or behead him him in public.

Did Russia said that? that they wont extradite because concerns over torture?

[SinglePot]

And all the time the US gets its knickers in a twist the Russians and the Chinese laugh.

Russia and China don't have Snowdens. They deal with them.

US promising Russia to be kind on Snowden is ironic beyond belief.

And stupid, because it gives Russia leverage.

Bump.

[F430murci]

I think this was in response to Russia saying not sending back doe to Snowden's concerns that he will be tortured or put to death. Although I think it was a ridiculously weak move to even say or to say publicly, US was attempting to remove Russia's articulated basis for not returning him.

It's not like the US is going to stone him to death slowly in a public display or behead him him in public.

Did Russia said that? that they wont extradite because concerns over torture?

Kucherena has and so have some Russian officials.

-------

"Attorney General Eric Holder wrote a letter to Russian officials this week in which he gave assurances that Snowden would not face the death penalty and would not be tortured if Russia sends him back. He said the former NSA contractor would have the full protection of the U.S. civilian court system."

"Some Russia officials who favor giving asylum to Snowden have cited all those concerns as reasons why he should be given refuge."

http://www.npr.org/2013/07/27/205946133/public-opinion-may-give-russia-an-edge-in-snowden-case

Edited July 27, 2013 by F430murci

[simple1]

And all the time the US gets its knickers in a twist the Russians and the Chinese laugh.

Russia and China don't have Snowdens. They deal with them.

US promising Russia to be kind on Snowden is ironic beyond belief.

And stupid, because it gives Russia leverage.

Bump.

I understand Russia has a moratorium on the death penalty, don't know if it extends to spies. Many countries will not extradite an accused person it they will be subject to the death penalty e.g. UK & Australia (now including Russia?). A strange comment on US "being kind" when he possibly will be sentenced to life in prison.

Edited July 27, 2013 by simple1

[SinglePot]

just a word of caution before I sign out of this.

Kucherena will say whatever suits. He is a Russian lawyer.

Has anybody seen anything recently of the wikileaks woman?

[SinglePot]

And all the time the US gets its knickers in a twist the Russians and the Chinese laugh.

Russia and China don't have Snowdens. They deal with them.

US promising Russia to be kind on Snowden is ironic beyond belief.

And stupid, because it gives Russia leverage.

Bump.

I understand Russia has a moratorium on the death penalty, don't know if it extends to spies. Many countries will not extradite an accused person it they will be subject to the death penalty e.g. UK & Australia (now including Russia?). A strange comment on US "being kind" when he possibly will be sentenced to life in prison.

You understand the Russian concept of somebody being considered an enemy of the state disappearing?

[F430murci]

And all the time the US gets its knickers in a twist the Russians and the Chinese laugh.

Russia and China don't have Snowdens. They deal with them.

US promising Russia to be kind on Snowden is ironic beyond belief.

And stupid, because it gives Russia leverage.

Bump.

I understand Russia has a moratorium on the death penalty, don't know if it extends to spies. Many countries will not extradite an accused person it they will be subject to the death penalty e.g. UK & Australia (now including Russia?). A strange comment on US "being kind" when he possibly will be sentenced to life in prison.

You understand the Russian concept of somebody being considered an enemy of the state disappearing?

Haha, Russia has a death penalty, just not in the Courts. They don't need no stinkin court for that.

[SinglePot]

Correct. your wife is Russian. You must know this <deleted>.

[antfish]

I think this was in response to Russia saying not sending back doe to Snowden's concerns that he will be tortured or put to death. Although I think it was a ridiculously weak move to even say or to say publicly, US was attempting to remove Russia's articulated basis for not returning him.

It's not like the US is going to stone him to death slowly in a public display or behead him him in public.

Did Russia said that? that they wont extradite because concerns over torture?

Kucherena has and so have some Russian officials.

-------

"Attorney General Eric Holder wrote a letter to Russian officials this week in which he gave assurances that Snowden would not face the death penalty and would not be tortured if Russia sends him back. He said the former NSA contractor would have the full protection of the U.S. civilian court system."

"Some Russia officials who favor giving asylum to Snowden have cited all those concerns as reasons why he should be given refuge."

http://www.npr.org/2013/07/27/205946133/public-opinion-may-give-russia-an-edge-in-snowden-case

So Russia did not make any official statement like saying: We don't send Snowden back because of that torture thing.

Just Snowden and lawyer mentioned that in their asylum request.

Do you know and understand that are two different legal issues. granting asylum vs extradition.

[F430murci]

Correct. your wife is Russian. You must know this <deleted>.

No, I saw it on television . . . And read it on the Internet, probably on Wikileaks.

Dang, everyone is grumpy old <deleted> today.

[SinglePot]

Russia good.

US bad.

Why make it complicated.

[F430murci]

Russia good.

US bad.

Why make it complicated.

The no stinkin court thing should have been a give away that I messing around.

I don't necessarily think anyone good or bad. Just different. I do have respect for Russia's straight ahead bull in china shop approach.

Edited July 27, 2013 by F430murci

[F430murci]

I think this was in response to Russia saying not sending back doe to Snowden's concerns that he will be tortured or put to death. Although I think it was a ridiculously weak move to even say or to say publicly, US was attempting to remove Russia's articulated basis for not returning him.

It's not like the US is going to stone him to death slowly in a public display or behead him him in public.

Did Russia said that? that they wont extradite because concerns over torture?

Kucherena has and so have some Russian officials.

-------

"Attorney General Eric Holder wrote a letter to Russian officials this week in which he gave assurances that Snowden would not face the death penalty and would not be tortured if Russia sends him back. He said the former NSA contractor would have the full protection of the U.S. civilian court system."

"Some Russia officials who favor giving asylum to Snowden have cited all those concerns as reasons why he should be given refuge."

http://www.npr.org/2013/07/27/205946133/public-opinion-may-give-russia-an-edge-in-snowden-case

So Russia did not make any official statement like saying: We don't send Snowden back because of that torture thing.

Just Snowden and lawyer mentioned that in their asylum request.

Do you know and understand that are two different legal issues. granting asylum vs extradition.

I quoted a statement that supported what I said and I have heard this on news in interviews. I am sure if you researched, you could find this . . . But you don't. You just not pick without offering any objective facts.

Haha, you do realize I put zero thought into what I type and it is stream of consciousness? I won't lie and misrepresent facts as it is not in my nature and, as other have seen on here before, I will be the first to admit when I screwed something up or got a fact wrong.

You will certainly be able to pick a part my post and twist meaning because so little time, effort and thought went into it. That seems to make you happy. Cool by me and you are somewhat entertaining.

[SinglePot]

seems like you are a little confused F430.

bull in a china shop means anybody stealing confidential information gets eliminated.

Well that's how it is in China at least.

[antfish]

Did Russia said that? that they wont extradite because concerns over torture?

Kucherena has and so have some Russian officials.

-------

"Attorney General Eric Holder wrote a letter to Russian officials this week in which he gave assurances that Snowden would not face the death penalty and would not be tortured if Russia sends him back. He said the former NSA contractor would have the full protection of the U.S. civilian court system."

"Some Russia officials who favor giving asylum to Snowden have cited all those concerns as reasons why he should be given refuge."

http://www.npr.org/2013/07/27/205946133/public-opinion-may-give-russia-an-edge-in-snowden-case

So Russia did not make any official statement like saying: We don't send Snowden back because of that torture thing.

Just Snowden and lawyer mentioned that in their asylum request.

Do you know and understand that are two different legal issues. granting asylum vs extradition.

I quoted a statement that supported what I said and I have heard this on news in interviews. I am sure if you researched, you could find this . . . But you don't. You just not pick without offering any objective facts.

Haha, you do realize I put zero thought into what I type and it is stream of consciousness? I won't lie and misrepresent facts as it is not in my nature and, as other have seen on here before, I will be the first to admit when I screwed something up or got a fact wrong.

You will certainly be able to pick a part my post and twist meaning because so little time, effort and thought went into it. That seems to make you happy. Cool by me and you are somewhat entertaining.

So you don't understand the difference between "to extradite someone" and "to grant someone asylum".

I have never heard any official Russian statement that said Russia will not extradite Snowden because he might get tortured.

All i heard were statement like that Snowden is a free man and they will not extradite him because there is no extradition treaty with the US and Russia had never extradite anyone, the Russian authorities see no reason why they should extradite him. All that has nothing to to with alleged threat of torture.

Russia simply see no reason to send Snowden back. torture or not, that doesn't matter. So the US promise not to torture will not change their mind.

but wth. if even that Eric Holder doesn't get it, why should you get it.

Edited July 27, 2013 by antfish

[F430murci]

Kucherena has and so have some Russian officials.

-------

"Attorney General Eric Holder wrote a letter to Russian officials this week in which he gave assurances that Snowden would not face the death penalty and would not be tortured if Russia sends him back. He said the former NSA contractor would have the full protection of the U.S. civilian court system."

"Some Russia officials who favor giving asylum to Snowden have cited all those concerns as reasons why he should be given refuge."

http://www.npr.org/2013/07/27/205946133/public-opinion-may-give-russia-an-edge-in-snowden-case

So Russia did not make any official statement like saying: We don't send Snowden back because of that torture thing.

Just Snowden and lawyer mentioned that in their asylum request.

Do you know and understand that are two different legal issues. granting asylum vs extradition.

I quoted a statement that supported what I said and I have heard this on news in interviews. I am sure if you researched, you could find this . . . But you don't. You just not pick without offering any objective facts.

Haha, you do realize I put zero thought into what I type and it is stream of consciousness? I won't lie and misrepresent facts as it is not in my nature and, as other have seen on here before, I will be the first to admit when I screwed something up or got a fact wrong.

You will certainly be able to pick a part my post and twist meaning because so little time, effort and thought went into it. That seems to make you happy. Cool by me and you are somewhat entertaining.

So you don't understand the difference between "to extradite someone" and "to grant someone asylum".

I have never heard any official Russian statement that said Russia will not extradite Snowden because he might get tortured.

All i heard were statement like that Snowden is a free man and they will not extradite him because there is no extradition treaty with the US and Russia had never extradite anyone, the Russian authorities see no reason why they should extradite him. All that has nothing to to with alleged threat of torture.

Russia simply see no reason to send Snowden back. torture or not, that doesn't matter. So the US promise not to torture will not change their mind.

dam_n, you need to get a life worse than I do.

Edited July 27, 2013 by F430murci

[F430murci]

Ant:

The crux if it is simple.

Russia is using his statement in the asylum request for public reasons to deny extradition.

[SinglePot]

Russia is using Snowden full stop.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies deleted.

[Scott]

Troll post removed.