UK immigration backlog 'tops 500,000' say MPs

[Kevin1908]

Not sure why an illegal immigrant has a right of appeal? Did you enter the country legally, no. Bye bye then.

[bobrussell]

The backlog and the current mess is a legacy left by Tony Blair and his New Labour luvvies who decided to give the UK a social experiment that was hidden from the electorate.

It is unfair to try and blame the current government.

If as some have suggested a blanket amnesty was declared we would have 500,000 extra people to house,educate and fund at state expense.

That option is not cheap.

It would not help MP's chances of re-election either.

I have not seen anyone suggesting a blanket amnesty in any of the posts. These are applications from people trying to do things properly. They are legal until such time as a decision is made.

Some are already in the UK and must already be housed, educated and funded (or working and paying taxes). This is not an amnesty at all just an assumption that an application collecting dust in an office will be approved unless there is a good reason not too.

It is likely that many of these people will not be in the UK so will not reply to any letter addressed to them so will drop off the list as will those that have failed to give up to date addresses as they are required to do.

The purpose of this exercise is to clear the backlog in a practical and affordable way!

Edited July 25, 2013 by bobrussell

[MAJIC]

They have these vans driving around now.

The advert, leaflets carrying the same message will be left in newsagents, money transfer shops and internet cafes migrants are known to go to, and adverts placed in local newspapers.

Two vans will be driven around Hounslow, Barking & Dagenham, Ealing, Barnet, Brent and Redbridge this week showing the advert and displaying figures on how many illegal migrants have been arrested recently in each area.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2373625/Is-ridiculous-Home-Office-stunt-Vans-encourage-illegal-immigrants-send-texts-free-advice-getting-home.html

Well sad it's come to this,but that's what happens when a Country reaches saturation point,and never mind about the 500,000 backlog that some on TV think is the important issue here,and just don't get the real issue!

[MAJIC]

The backlog and the current mess is a legacy left by Tony Blair and his New Labour luvvies who decided to give the UK a social experiment that was hidden from the electorate.

It is unfair to try and blame the current government.

If as some have suggested a blanket amnesty was declared we would have 500,000 extra people to house,educate and fund at state expense.

That option is not cheap.

It would not help MP's chances of re-election either.

I have not seen anyone suggesting a blanket amnesty in any of the posts. These are applications from people trying to do things properly. They are legal until such time as a decision is made.

Some are already in the UK and must already be housed, educated and funded (or working and paying taxes). This is not an amnesty at all just an assumption that an application collecting dust in an office will be approved unless there is a good reason not too.

It is likely that many of these people will not be in the UK so will not reply to any letter addressed to them so will drop off the list as will those that have failed to give up to date addresses as they are required to do.

The purpose of this exercise is to clear the backlog in a practical and affordable way!

So are you saying you would not approve of an Amnesty? a simple Yes or No would suffice?

Edited July 25, 2013 by MAJIC

[Basil B]

Not sure why an illegal immigrant has a right of appeal? Did you enter the country legally, no. Bye bye then.

What is more appalling is that when they are found working and UKBA can not find documentation(passports) that would allow them to immediately deport them, they basically let them go free because they have no places at detention centres.

Maybe we should model our detention centres on those in many other countries, hell holes with very basic amenities, basically bread and water, let them have telephone, fax and email (but not internet), and let them beg from family, friends, their embassies, etc for food parcels, clothes, money and ultimately a ticket home.

[7by7]

Whatever you may think is the important issue; the 500,000 backlog is the subject of this topic!

[Jay Sata]

Part of the backlog includes a substantial amount of illegal's who get lawyered up at our expense the moment they touch British soil.

They then try and drag their case out for years to avoid deportation.

[transam]

Part of the backlog includes a substantial amount of illegal's who get lawyered up at our expense the moment they touch British soil.

They then try and drag their case out for years to avoid deportation.

Lawyer-ed up by the UK tax payer. That's why they are queuing up to cross that channel. Daft or what, but some here are waiting there with open arms.

[Jay Sata]

Part of the backlog includes a substantial amount of illegal's who get lawyered up at our expense the moment they touch British soil.

They then try and drag their case out for years to avoid deportation.

Lawyer-ed up by the UK tax payer. That's why they are queuing up to cross that channel. Daft or what, but some here are waiting there with open arms.

To clear the backlog you need a scheme to prevent more illegal's joining the back of the line. Australia has done that by moving all new arrivals to Papua New Guinea.

As I've suggested before if the Falklands was the place where our illegal's were housed there would be thousands asking for a ticket back home.

To those that argue for an amnesty I would remind you that most of these people have little or no skills or speak English. Their intention is to live their lives funded and housed by the UK taxpayer.

[transam]

Part of the backlog includes a substantial amount of illegal's who get lawyered up at our expense the moment they touch British soil.

They then try and drag their case out for years to avoid deportation.

Lawyer-ed up by the UK tax payer. That's why they are queuing up to cross that channel. Daft or what, but some here are waiting there with open arms.

To clear the backlog you need a scheme to prevent more illegal's joining the back of the line. Australia has done that by moving all new arrivals to Papua New Guinea.

As I've suggested before if the Falklands was the place where our illegal's were housed there would be thousands asking for a ticket back home.

To those that argue for an amnesty I would remind you that most of these people have little or no skills or speak English. Their intention is to live their lives funded and housed by the UK taxpayer.

100% correct, but some here cannot see it, UK Gov cannot see it or are so engrossed in their hi-so life they do not want or care to see it.

[ava15]

Some hilarious back slapping going on here

[transam]

Some hilarious back slapping going on here

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeell, there are those who have seen and those that are blind to UK stuff. I can honestly say that in business in UK I saw stuff and nobody will change my thoughts. It is those who have not seen stuff who scoff.

[Jay Sata]

Here is an example of how easy it is to milk the system.

Delayed asylum decision
If the immigration authorities are taking a long time to decide whether or not you are eligible for asylum, you may be entitled to compensation for being unlawfully deprived of your liberty. You may fall into this category even if you have not been in detention for the time the decision is being made. If you have been released on bail with conditions attached to it, then your liberty has been affected.

http://www.duncanlewis.co.uk/immigration_asylum.html

That firm seem to have a finger in the pie at all the detention centres.

http://www.asylumaid.org.uk/data/files/detentioncentreprovidersnocontactdetails.pdf

The publicly funded lawyers are running rings around the Border Agency.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Jay Sata

[Waterloo]

Part of the backlog includes a substantial amount of illegal's who get lawyered up at our expense the moment they touch British soil.

They then try and drag their case out for years to avoid deportation.

Lawyer-ed up by the UK tax payer. That's why they are queuing up to cross that channel. Daft or what, but some here are waiting there with open arms.

To clear the backlog you need a scheme to prevent more illegal's joining the back of the line. Australia has done that by moving all new arrivals to Papua New Guinea.

As I've suggested before if the Falklands was the place where our illegal's were housed there would be thousands asking for a ticket back home.

To those that argue for an amnesty I would remind you that most of these people have little or no skills or speak English. Their intention is to live their lives funded and housed by the UK taxpayer.

Please point to any post in this thread were anyone has argued for an amnesty?

[ava15]

Well said.

[theoldgit]

Despite the risk of moving this thread even further off topic, I would ask Jay Sata if he is serious with the sugestion of transporting Immigrants nearly 8,000 miles from the UK to the Falkland Islands, or was it just a facetious remark aimed at derailing this thread?

In the unlikely event it was a serious remark, just who does he think would pay for the transportation and accommodation costs, and the cost of the caseworking?

Regarding the list of lawyers available in IRC's, I presume that's what he meant when he said Detention Centres, how is that milking the system? I believe it's right that people being detained should receive legal advice, if only to advise detainees that their case is hopeless and they should cooperate with the removal process. Maybe he would share with us the benefit of his Immigration Detention experience?

I'm proud of the fact that the UK is regarded as a safe haven for those who genuinly seek asylum.

[7by7]

I wonder what the Falkland Islanders themselves would think of Mr. Sata's plan?

[Jay Sata]

What we have at the moment is an open invitation to a party and we are providing the food and drink.

If genuine, refugees and asylum seekers would not trek halfway across Europe to try and enter the UK.

There was a great quote from one of the Romanians rounded up in London the other day where a woman said 'we just come here and wait for the house'.

But back to the topic.

You'll never clear the backlog without a deterrent. I'm sure the Falklander's would love the money that would come their way with building the infrastructure to house these illegals or clandestines as the BA call them in Calais.

I'd only suggest the Falklands for those who destroy their documents or refuse to reveal their real identity.

If the DVLC can run a computer system that tracks every motorist and vehicle in the land it can't be hard to use the same technology.

The portable fingerprint machines appear to work well but so often the target is released back in to the community.

To reduce the attraction of the UK we need a system whereby we are not a magnet for half the world's economic migrants.

The backlog needs some sort of structured approach. I'd target visa overstayer's who will no doubt be economically active.

There is some merit in allowing a partial amnesty if people were prepared to move to some of the less attractive parts of the UK and take unskilled jobs such as cleaners etc.

The lawyers feeding frenzy using legal aid needs to be funded by the charities who support the idea of supporting these people who in most cases are males under 40.

Old git asks

In the unlikely event it was a serious remark, just who does he think would pay for the transportation and accommodation costs, and the cost of the caseworking?

I'd suggest it would be a lot cheaper than the system we have at present. Caseworking could be done by a handful of young lawyers and most of it done via the internet.

If there was a big sign at Calais saying you are going to the Falklands which is cold and wet and miserable if you land in the UK with no documents the problem would disappear overnight.

[Waterloo]

What we have at the moment is an open invitation to a party and we are providing the food and drink.

If genuine, refugees and asylum seekers would not trek halfway across Europe to try and enter the UK.

There was a great quote from one of the Romanians rounded up in London the other day where a woman said 'we just come here and wait for the house'.

But back to the topic.

You'll never clear the backlog without a deterrent. I'm sure the Falklander's would love the money that would come their way with building the infrastructure to house these illegals or clandestines as the BA call them in Calais.

I'd only suggest the Falklands for those who destroy their documents or refuse to reveal their real identity.

If the DVLC can run a computer system that tracks every motorist and vehicle in the land it can't be hard to use the same technology.

The portable fingerprint machines appear to work well but so often the target is released back in to the community.

To reduce the attraction of the UK we need a system whereby we are not a magnet for half the world's economic migrants.

The backlog needs some sort of structured approach. I'd target visa overstayer's who will no doubt be economically active.

There is some merit in allowing a partial amnesty if people were prepared to move to some of the less attractive parts of the UK and take unskilled jobs such as cleaners etc.

The lawyers feeding frenzy using legal aid needs to be funded by the charities who support the idea of supporting these people who in most cases are males under 40.

Old git asks

In the unlikely event it was a serious remark, just who does he think would pay for the transportation and accommodation costs, and the cost of the caseworking?

I'd suggest it would be a lot cheaper than the system we have at present. Caseworking could be done by a handful of young lawyers and most of it done via the internet.

If there was a big sign at Calais saying you are going to the Falklands which is cold and wet and miserable if you land in the UK with no documents the problem would disappear overnight.

Please explain to me how a deterent works on a backlog, a backlog is in the past a deterent can only work on future applications or violations!

[Waterloo]

I do wish people would stop using the word amnesty, an amnesty implies a pardon or forgiveness for past offenses.

Can anyone demonstrate the any of the backlog have commited an offence?

Bob's suggestion was merely that the backlog should be assessed on more relaxed criteria due to the passage of time, but still as individual cases.

[Basil B]

Here is an example of how easy it is to milk the system.

Delayed asylum decision

If the immigration authorities are taking a long time to decide whether or not you are eligible for asylum, you may be entitled to compensation for being unlawfully deprived of your liberty. You may fall into this category even if you have not been in detention for the time the decision is being made. If you have been released on bail with conditions attached to it, then your liberty has been affected.

http://www.duncanlewis.co.uk/immigration_asylum.html

That firm seem to have a finger in the pie at all the detention centres.

http://www.asylumaid.org.uk/data/files/detentioncentreprovidersnocontactdetails.pdf

The publicly funded lawyers are running rings around the Border Agency.

Having seen cutbacks in legal aid for most UK citizens I certainly do not think it should go to non UK citizens but then if a person does have a right here then they should be able to appeal, may be for those who wish to appeal may be they should be looking for help from charitable organisations for sponsorship (emergency funds, living costs and legal aid), and to be fair the government should also make some form of grant to such organisation as long as they were not discriminatory in who they helped, maybe this money should come from our overseas aid budget in particular those countries that do not assist in helping repatriate their citizens.

[Kevin1908]

.

I'd only suggest the Falklands for those who destroy their documents or refuse to reveal their real identity.

I am pretty damn sure that if a forensic archaeologist can determine what part of the world somebody grew up in from analysing the bones of somebody who died several hundred years ago then it shouldn't be impossibe to determine where somebody who arrived a few years ago originated from.

[Jay Sata]

The publicly funded lawyers are running rings around the Border Agency.

Having seen cutbacks in legal aid for most UK citizens I certainly do not think it should go to non UK citizens but then if a person does have a right here then they should be able to appeal, may be for those who wish to appeal may be they should be looking for help from charitable organisations for sponsorship (emergency funds, living costs and legal aid), and to be fair the government should also make some form of grant to such organisation as long as they were not discriminatory in who they helped, maybe this money should come from our overseas aid budget in particular those countries that do not assist in helping repatriate their citizens.

Basil

The immigration laws are pretty straightforward as we all know.

To be on this site the odds are we have all had to jump through the hoops to get our spouse visas.

The bulk of the backlog comprises of visitors/migrants who have come here through the back door.

They are economic migrants,mostly male, who have exploited the system.

The backlog needs to be tackled in a systematic way.

If we can prosecute tv presenters for crimes they committed 40 years ago we can round up the overstayer's and either send them home if they have documents,allow them leave to remain, or in the case of those with no documents send them to limbo in a far flung part of the world until they confess to their true identity.

One thing that would be unfair and is unfair is allowing them to exploit our system and remain.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Jay Sata

[Jay Sata]

The publicly funded lawyers are running rings around the Border Agency.

Having seen cutbacks in legal aid for most UK citizens I certainly do not think it should go to non UK citizens but then if a person does have a right here then they should be able to appeal, may be for those who wish to appeal may be they should be looking for help from charitable organisations for sponsorship (emergency funds, living costs and legal aid), and to be fair the government should also make some form of grant to such organisation as long as they were not discriminatory in who they helped, maybe this money should come from our overseas aid budget in particular those countries that do not assist in helping repatriate their citizens.

Basil

The immigration laws are pretty straightforward as we all know.

To be on this site the odds are we have all had to jump through the hoops to get our spouse visas.

The bulk of the backlog comprises of visitors/migrants who have come here through the back door.

They are economic migrants,mostly male, who have exploited the system.

The backlog needs to be tackled in a systematic way.

If we can prosecute tv presenters for crimes they committed 40 years ago we can round up the overstayer's and either send them home if they have documents,allow them leave to remain, or in the case of those with no documents send them to limbo in a far flung part of the world until the confess to their true identity.

One thing that would be unfair and is unfair is allowing them to exploit our system and remain.

[Basil B]

Not to get too far off topic but I assume this is of interest to readers of this topic:

Official UK migration figures are "little better than a best guess", a group of influential MPs has said.

The Public Administration Committee said the statistics were "not fit for purpose" and did not accurately assess how many non-UK residents were entering and leaving the country.

The MPs recommended finding new ways to gather migration information

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23475230

[2yearvisitvisa]

Despite the risk of moving this thread even further off topic, I would ask Jay Sata if he is serious with the suggestion of transporting Immigrants nearly 8,000 miles from the UK to the Falkland Islands, or was it just a facetious remark aimed at derailing this thread?

.....

I'm proud of the fact that the UK is regarded as a safe haven for those who genuinely seek asylum.

To reduce the attraction of the UK we need a system whereby we are not a magnet for half the world's economic migrants.

This is an interesting point but, I am afraid, absolutely impossible to define. For example, where would you draw the line. At the Romanians you mentioned? At 30 something Noi from Nong Khai marrying 50 something Sid from Skegness. I met a 35 year old lass married to a 60 odd bloke - it was clearly a marriage of convenience, born from economic necessity. Well, perhaps not necessity, more likely economic desire.

The point is, where do you draw the line?

I too am proud of Britain's lead in providing asylum - though I am not proud of how we become a honey pot for the world's greedy.

Edited July 28, 2013 by 2yearvisitvisa

[MaprangHolmes]

maybe relevant to this topic http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/5038077/Immigrant-stats-out-by-tens-of-thousands-according-to-MPs-report.html

[2yearvisitvisa]

The Sun and Political debate? Isn't that an oxymoron?

[7by7]

To reduce the attraction of the UK we need a system whereby we are not a magnet for half the world's economic migrants.

This is an interesting point but, I am afraid, absolutely impossible to define. For example, where would you draw the line. At the Romanians you mentioned? At 30 something Noi from Nong Khai marrying 50 something Sid from Skegness. I met a 35 year old lass married to a 60 odd bloke - it was clearly a marriage of convenience, born from economic necessity. Well, perhaps not necessity, more likely economic desire.

Your relationship with your partner may be based on economics, and if you and your partner are both happy with the arrangement then good for you; but most aren't.

Edited July 29, 2013 by 7by7

[Jay Sata]

The whole immigration scenario is a shambles. These figures say it all.

Last week it emerged that, between 2001 and 2011, almost 500,000 immigrants were given social housing at a cost to the taxpayer of up to £8 billion. And this when a record 1.8 million British families are on the social housing waiting list.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2380430/The-Tories-just-desperate-Labour-hide-real-truth-immigration.htm

However the story is delivered you can't blame the messenger.

Anyone who has the audacity to uphold the rule of law over illegal immigration, the duties of citizenship over global freeloading and the legitimacy of safeguarding Britain’s historic identity by expecting immigrants to assimilate into that identity rather than create a new one altogether, is denounced as a bigot.

I'm afraid that is now the view of the bulk of those of us who have seen the country transformed over the last couple of decades.

I cannot believe it is not possible to tackle this backlog.

We need to adopt a system where appeals are more controlled. This happening with unemployment tribunals which have been a legal gravy train.

People bringing employment tribunals must now pay a fee for the first time since they were created in the 1960s.

Under the new UK rules, they will have to pay £160 or £250 to lodge a claim, with a further charge of either £230 or £950 if the case goes ahead.

The higher charges will cover cases like unfair dismissal, the lower ones issues such as unpaid invoices.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23482520