UK immigration backlog 'tops 500,000' say MPs

[transam]

The whole immigration scenario is a shambles. These figures say it all.

Last week it emerged that, between 2001 and 2011, almost 500,000 immigrants were given social housing at a cost to the taxpayer of up to £8 billion. And this when a record 1.8 million British families are on the social housing waiting list.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2380430/The-Tories-just-desperate-Labour-hide-real-truth-immigration.htm

However the story is delivered you can't blame the messenger.

Anyone who has the audacity to uphold the rule of law over illegal immigration, the duties of citizenship over global freeloading and the legitimacy of safeguarding Britain’s historic identity by expecting immigrants to assimilate into that identity rather than create a new one altogether, is denounced as a bigot.

I'm afraid that is now the view of the bulk of those of us who have seen the country transformed over the last couple of decades.

I cannot believe it is not possible to tackle this backlog.

We need to adopt a system where appeals are more controlled. This happening with unemployment tribunals which have been a legal gravy train.

People bringing employment tribunals must now pay a fee for the first time since they were created in the 1960s.

Under the new UK rules, they will have to pay £160 or £250 to lodge a claim, with a further charge of either £230 or £950 if the case goes ahead.

The higher charges will cover cases like unfair dismissal, the lower ones issues such as unpaid invoices.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23482520

Yep, the UK can spend zillions of pounds fighting wars abroad but cannot protect it's own country from another invader.

[Jay Sata]

I still do not understand why a country like Thailand with a similar population as the UK and a large tourist population can keep track of those who come and go yet the UK cannot?

Why are we so deficient?

[2yearvisitvisa]

To reduce the attraction of the UK we need a system whereby we are not a magnet for half the world's economic migrants.

This is an interesting point but, I am afraid, absolutely impossible to define. For example, where would you draw the line. At the Romanians you mentioned? At 30 something Noi from Nong Khai marrying 50 something Sid from Skegness. I met a 35 year old lass married to a 60 odd bloke - it was clearly a marriage of convenience, born from economic necessity. Well, perhaps not necessity, more likely economic desire.

Your relationship with your partner may be based on economics, and if you and your partner are both happy with the arrangement then good for you; but most aren't.

Fortunately my wife and I are of a similar ages and she and her family are infinitely wealthier than me and mine. So ours is not one based upon economics - although I wouldnt mind being on her dad's will ;-). I understand you are in your late 50s and from your previous posts you had to have your aged mother and father offer you and your wife a spare room for your partner's visa application before moving into a small rented flat where you live now, so clearly yours relationship is not based upon economics or your ability to provide an improved economic situation. Of course this is an assumption that such living isn't an improvement.....I am happy for you and no doubt you are too.

However, I would agree with you - some people are happy to live in an economic based relationship - 'but most aren't', despite where they find themselves. I am sure you have spent time at at Thai embassy / festival events in the UK and are able to see the lack of outward balance in many relationships.

When I think back to my 20s and 30s, I certainly would not have relished the thought of partnering with older woman - I assume you also peak Thai as I do after so many years married and living in Thailand, some of the things I hear talked about at these events is very unfair on both partners, in my opinion.

Aside, I am sure that 'some' older men do not relish the thought that there wives are economic migrants - however, if it works for some - then fine, that's their choice(?). Most are well experienced and fully appreciate what each partner brings to the picnic.

This still doesnt answer the Jay's point about the Falklands though and just where do you draw the line when deciding who is an economic migrant. His opinion is, as far as I am concerned, impossible to define.

Edited July 29, 2013 by 2yearvisitvisa

[2yearvisitvisa]

We need to adopt a system where appeals are more controlled. This happening with unemployment tribunals which have been a legal gravy train

.

That's all very well Jay - but in the UK we have a system of justice and a societies worth is based upon its system of justice, rights, law and order etc. I personally would not like to corrupt that.

[transam]

Hm, how many passports are floating in the English channel to confuse UK authorities. ? Zillions know the routine to be taken care of in the UK. Zillions know how to work cash in hand once their feet are on UK soil. It is a crazy situation that the UK tax payer is paying for.

[2yearvisitvisa]

We need to adopt a system where appeals are more controlled. This happening with unemployment tribunals which have been a legal gravy train

.

That's all very well Jay - but in the UK we have a system of justice and a societies worth is based upon its system of justice, rights, law and order etc. I personally would not like to corrupt that.

[transam]

We need to adopt a system where appeals are more controlled. This happening with unemployment tribunals which have been a legal gravy train

.

That's all very well Jay - but in the UK we have a system of justice and a societies worth is based upon its system of justice, rights, law and order etc. I personally would not like to corrupt that.

BUT, folk know how to milk it, those who manage to set up ''shop'' in the UK tell them how. I got the T-shirt.

[2yearvisitvisa]

Hm, how many passports are floating in the English channel to confuse UK authorities. ? Zillions know the routine to be taken care of in the UK. Zillions know how to work cash in hand once their feet are on UK soil. It is a crazy situation that the UK tax payer is paying for.

And the same is said of many Euro countries, America etc etc etc - and as far as the tax payer goes, this is the price of living in a progressive 1st world nation.

Which I, personally, am extremely proud of.

[2yearvisitvisa]

We need to adopt a system where appeals are more controlled. This happening with unemployment tribunals which have been a legal gravy train

.

That's all very well Jay - but in the UK we have a system of justice and a societies worth is based upon its system of justice, rights, law and order etc. I personally would not like to corrupt that.

BUT, folk know how to milk it, those who manage to set up ''shop'' in the UK tell them how. I got the T-shirt.

Yes, you are right.

[2yearvisitvisa]

We need to adopt a system where appeals are more controlled. This happening with unemployment tribunals which have been a legal gravy train

.

That's all very well Jay - but in the UK we have a system of justice and a societies worth is based upon its system of justice, rights, law and order etc. I personally would not like to corrupt that.

BUT, folk know how to milk it, those who manage to set up ''shop'' in the UK tell them how. I got the T-shirt.

Yes, you are right.

[Jay Sata]

in the UK we have a system of justice and a societies worth is based upon its system of justice, rights, law and order etc. I personally would not like to corrupt that.

As soon as someone disposes of their passport or lies about where they have come from we have problems brought about by the immigrant try to cheat the system.

The question remains what do you do to clear the backlog and protect the UK population will have to fund someone with no skills who will never be able to support themselves?

Is it fair that most go down the legal route and often get refused the right to live in the UK why others cheat the system. As I've said before they are in the main young males.

[transam]

Hm, how many passports are floating in the English channel to confuse UK authorities. ? Zillions know the routine to be taken care of in the UK. Zillions know how to work cash in hand once their feet are on UK soil. It is a crazy situation that the UK tax payer is paying for.

And the same is said of many Euro countries, America etc etc etc - and as far as the tax payer goes, this is the price of living in a progressive 1st world nation.

Which I, personally, am extremely proud of.

I totally agree, BUT now our system is being milked. The weak links have been found and our nations, native folk are paying the price.

[2yearvisitvisa]

We need to adopt a system where appeals are more controlled. This happening with unemployment tribunals which have been a legal gravy train

.

That's all very well Jay - but in the UK we have a system of justice and a societies worth is based upon its system of justice, rights, law and order etc. I personally would not like to corrupt that.

BUT, folk know how to milk it, those who manage to set up ''shop'' in the UK tell them how. I got the T-shirt.

Yes, you are right.

[Somtamme]

I still do not understand why a country like Thailand with a similar population as the UK and a large tourist population can keep track of those who come and go yet the UK cannot?

Why are we so deficient?

Why are we so deficient..

I would like to refer you and other readers to minutes from Commons debate when Teresa May introduced this Govts plans to control family migration e.g.;

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmhansrd/cm120611/debtext/120611-0002.htm#1206117000775

As you will see, the response made by the then shadow Home Secretary (Yvette Cooper MP) regarding the new rules for income / savings for UK spouse, she was clearly puzzled about the 'Home Secretary’s decision to use a motion in Parliament that will obviously not change the law or override case law in the way that primary legislation would'.

Clearly, without primary legislation, there is less opportunity to challenge the Home Office's proposals, unless judicial review is forced by an individual case basis as has happened. However, if there was more opportunity for open debate to the Home Office there could have been better legislation not simplistic measures as currently stand.

Furthermore, in terms the backlog Yvette Copper MP made an important point in her response to Teresa May, which has not as far as I can recollect been picked up. She explained that 'the truth is that this announcement does not deal with the growing problem under the Home Secretary’s Government. Too many foreign criminals are staying in Britain—not because of article 8, but, in the words of a borders inspector, because of “difficulty in obtaining travel documentation” resulting from the Border Agency’s weaknesses in enforcement and administration. This is another example of problems that have got worse for the Border Agency in the last two years'

I'm not sure what the borders inspector was referring to 'difficulty in obtaining travel documentation'?

[transam]

Hm, how many passports are floating in the English channel to confuse UK authorities. ? Zillions know the routine to be taken care of in the UK. Zillions know how to work cash in hand once their feet are on UK soil. It is a crazy situation that the UK tax payer is paying for.

And the same is said of many Euro countries, America etc etc etc - and as far as the tax payer goes, this is the price of living in a progressive 1st world nation.

Which I, personally, am extremely proud of.

I totally agree, BUT now our system is being milked. The weak links have been found and our nations, native folk are paying the price.

[Somtamme]

I still do not understand why a country like Thailand with a similar population as the UK and a large tourist population can keep track of those who come and go yet the UK cannot?

Why are we so deficient?

Why are we so deficient..

I would like to refer you and other readers to minutes from Commons debate when Teresa May introduced this Govts plans to control family migration e.g.;

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmhansrd/cm120611/debtext/120611-0002.htm#1206117000775

As you will see, the response made by the then shadow Home Secretary (Yvette Cooper MP) regarding the new rules for income / savings for UK spouse, she was clearly puzzled about the 'Home Secretary’s decision to use a motion in Parliament that will obviously not change the law or override case law in the way that primary legislation would'.

Clearly, without primary legislation, there is less opportunity to challenge the Home Office's proposals, unless judicial review is forced by an individual case basis as has happened. However, if there was more opportunity for open debate to the Home Office there could have been better legislation not simplistic measures as currently stand.

Furthermore, in terms the backlog Yvette Copper MP made an important point in her response to Teresa May, which has not as far as I can recollect been picked up. She explained that 'the truth is that this announcement does not deal with the growing problem under the Home Secretary’s Government. Too many foreign criminals are staying in Britain—not because of article 8, but, in the words of a borders inspector, because of “difficulty in obtaining travel documentation” resulting from the Border Agency’s weaknesses in enforcement and administration. This is another example of problems that have got worse for the Border Agency in the last two years'

I'm not sure what the borders inspector was referring to 'difficulty in obtaining travel documentation'?

[Jay Sata]

'm not sure what the borders inspector was referring to 'difficulty in obtaining travel documentation'?

I would imagine the person they want to deport has destroyed his passport and refuses to reveal his true identity.

Those are the people I'd send to the Falklands until they changed their minds. (Or Orkney,Shetland or the Outer Hebrides)

Those islands are British and I don't see why these illegal migrants who have deliberately made themselves stateless should be able to cherry pick where they live. Some commentators here seem to think the islands are some sort of hell.The Falklanders would probably disagree.

That's pretty much what Australia is doing now.

[7by7]

I thought this topic was about the backlog in legitimate applications.

It seems to have been hijacked, as so many have before, by those who wish to air their ignorance and prejudices.

[theoldgit]

I thought this topic was about the backlog in legitimate applications.

It seems to have been hijacked, as so many have before, by those who wish to air their ignorance and prejudices.

Indeed, this thread is about the backlog of application, and to be honest I'm not sure if there is anything left to discuss.

So please refrain your comments to the backlog as reported in the original post.

[Jay Sata]

The backlog does not consist of simple straightforward applications from outside the UK. In the main it's the complicated cases where the applicant has disappeared or can not be contacted.

My experience of dealing with Croydon in the past is that they are very efficient dealing with normal applications.

ignorance and prejudices

So we can't discuss what is being discussed every day in the UK press?

[7by7]

This topic is about the backlog in applications made in the UK.

There are many issues discussed and reported in the press everyday; but they are not relevant to this topic.

[bobrussell]

The backlog does not consist of simple straightforward applications from outside the UK. In the main it's the complicated cases where the applicant has disappeared or can not be contacted.

My experience of dealing with Croydon in the past is that they are very efficient dealing with normal applications.

ignorance and prejudices

So we can't discuss what is being discussed every day in the UK press?

The backlog therefore needs to be made simple. As I suggested in the first place, write to the last recorded address for a simple update on the applicants position.

If the applicant has moved away without a forwarding address the application is considered withdrawn. An applicant must keep the UKBA informed of changes of address! If the applicant 'resurfaces' they put in a new application. Problem sorted.

Those law abiding applicants that have been in limbo for years will have a settled life in the UK and would probably be able to fight a refusal on human rights grounds/ family life etc so grant ILR. Also sorted.

Those that have left the UK will not reply so their applications are also 'withdrawn'. Problem goes away.

If an applicant has acquired a criminal record in the intervening years then presumably an easy refusal as well.

Unless we want to see a small fortune wasted in continuing to process these applications at the present rate someone has to make some serious (and clearly not ideal) decisions to get rid of the problem in a practical and realistic manner.

[theoldgit]

I'm not sure what the borders inspector was referring to 'difficulty in obtaining travel documentation'?

OK, I will give you an example, and there are many more, it's just about on topic as the people form part of the backlog.

The UKBA carried out a number of exercises to remove Chinese Nationals that were already detained and waiting removal, or known to be working illegally.

Those already in detention were moved to a specific IRC and enforcement teams rounded up a number of the targeted group and detained them at the same IRC.

The Chinese authorities were involved in this exercise and agreed to cooperate in obtaining travel documents, out of a hundred or so detained only a handful were successfully removed. It was nothing to do with the abuse of the legal system, that isn't as endemic as some would have us believe. It was simply that the Chinese authorities were not able/willing to issue travel documents as they couldn't be sure of the true identity. The Chinese authorities had to refer cases back to a central authority in China, who referred the case to a region who in turn referred them to a village. It was frustrating for those Enforcement Teams involved and I believe for the Chinese authorities in London.

As a recall a number of these Chinese were released as it's illegal to detain somebody, or send them to the Falklands Isle of Wight or Isle of Dogs, unless there is a realistic prospect of removal.

I'm aware that it's also difficult to obtain travel documents for many counties in the African and Indian sub continents.

Most of these people are working in the grey market for less than minimum wages, and they are not on benefits.

[Jay Sata]

Very sensible post Bob.

As I understand it there is a system of keeping tabs on those who are here as illegals but allowed to stay while their cases are processed.

The various tv programmes show Border Force officers using portable finger print machines.

[2yearvisitvisa]

I thought this topic was about the backlog in legitimate applications.

It seems to have been hijacked, as so many have before, by those who wish to air their ignorance and prejudices.

Agree, there are certainly some very naïve people here, who have very little understanding of reality. I wouldn't say they are prejudiced though - just holders of rose tinted glasses with a lack of insight. I guess you could say ignorant of their surroundings.

[transam]

OK, I will give you an example, and there are many more, it's just about on topic as the people form part of the backlog.

The UKBA carried out a number of exercises to remove Chinese Nationals that were already detained and waiting removal, or known to be working illegally.

Those already in detention were moved to a specific IRC and enforcement teams rounded up a number of the targeted group and detained them at the same IRC.

The Chinese authorities were involved in this exercise and agreed to cooperate in obtaining travel documents, out of a hundred or so detained only a handful were successfully removed. It was nothing to do with the abuse of the legal system, that isn't as endemic as some would have us believe. It was simply that the Chinese authorities were not able/willing to issue travel documents as they couldn't be sure of the true identity. The Chinese authorities had to refer cases back to a central authority in China, who referred the case to a region who in turn referred them to a village. It was frustrating for those Enforcement Teams involved and I believe for the Chinese authorities in London.

As a recall a number of these Chinese were released as it's illegal to detain somebody, or send them to the Falklands Isle of Wight or Isle of Dogs, unless there is a realistic prospect of removal.

I'm aware that it's also difficult to obtain travel documents for many counties in the African and Indian sub continents.

Most of these people are working in the grey market for less than minimum wages, and they are not on benefits.

But NOT paying taxes OR NI. Big burden for the native UK guy/gal.

[theoldgit]

But NOT paying taxes OR NI. Big burden for the native UK guy/gal.

I agree that there are a lot of foreign nationals under the radar who are not paying income tax or making NI contributions, and whilst I believe there are many UK Citizens doing the same, it's wrong in both cases.

[theoldgit]

A number of nonsensical and off topic posts removed.

[bobrussell]

Every now and then it is worth repeating:

These are not illegal immigrants! The applications make them legal until such time as a decision is made! True many will be asylum seekers and some may have tricky or even dodgy applications.

The reality is that something has to be done about these applications to allow more recent cases to be dealt with efficiently.

At least with my 'system' those that have dropped off the grid will have applications refused and will therefore be 'illegal' if and when found.

[Kevin1908]

But NOT paying taxes OR NI. Big burden for the native UK guy/gal.

Strictly speaking in this situation the illegal action is by the employer not the worker