Terrible jobs done by local workers.

[jocko]

I dont believe anyone is suggesting you need to use an "oil rig welder" to weld a roof truss, but what you need to do is ensure the roof truss is being welding in accordance with the engineered design, ie a competant person, using the correct elctrodes (if the process is SMAW for example) and ensuring there are not excessive defects in the welds....yes even in "oil rig welding" certain discontinutes are permitted.

In other words you are meeting the intent of the engineered design, if you are not meeting this, you do run the risk of possible failure

The basic engineering principles of loads and forces whether a roof truss or an oil rig are the same...the key difference is the possible consequences of failure thats all, hence all the requirements on "oil rigs" as the consequence of failure is very high.

What "chrisinth" detailed in his example of roofing construction would be considered very good engineering practice as related to a load bearing structure...

It would be good to think that the angle iron roof truss for a normal 3or 4 bedroom house bought off the shelf in Thailand and maybe modified on site to suit would have been supplied by a company that had ndt practices inhouse in other words would have used coded welders its not really likely, the builder would just go for the cheapest option.

I can see a lot of posters on this topic understand best practice construction and if you know what to look for you can see good welding all around you most if not all stainless steel gates and railings you see are very neatly welded and sprinkler pipework in big builds are very neat work good looking welds and neatly fitted to the roof and the box section welding at Swampy all good work but off course that is all at a cost.

At home you see companies advertising for welders and are looking for 1st class and 2nd class welders for less skilled welders say for light roof truss work it would in most cases be just a visual look at the welds.

I dont like to think we are giving the impression to others reading this post that there roof is going to fall on top of them its probably as safe as houses

[chrisinth]

But we do seem to have travelled a bit astray from the OP with this............

Yes we have it seems....but always up for a bit of debate on engineering things...

but I think some posters should realise he would be debating with people who are involved in "engineering things" for a living...

Sometimes when working with engineers, I find times that constructive criticism fails and I have to resort to the Reset Tool. Although created with engineers in mind, it works quite well through a large spectrum of trades........................

(Click on the thumb)

Edited July 17, 2013 by chrisinth

[kannot]

So looks like we've got an answer then.

All the proper, trained, and decent workers are off doing real work for real money with real companies.

All the rest are doing crap jobs for crap wages.

Seems like they get paid what they deserve in both cases.

Seems to me more like whats being mentioned here is an elite group of Thais working in a highly skilled industry ie OIL and GAS nothing much to do with a "local workmen" type scenario at all.

Where are the real brickies, stop going on and on about bleeding welders in a highly skilled environment.

We have local bricklayers in the UK they can lay bricks in their sleep.

[WitawatWatawit]

A little anecdote. When my new house was finished, the ex said a neighbour could install the security bars. I'll skip a lot of the ridiculous goings-on that occurrred after that, and jump to the part where I went to the house to inspect the completed work. The neighbour did not supply his workers with an electric drill, so they hammered the expander bolts into the wall. This is not a made up story. The concrete around the doors and windows was shattered in many places and the workers had hit the bolts so hard, thy had broken through the wall completely. And the loser still demanded full payment. I hired another worker to fix the damage and took the cost off the bill. That was a bit tricky as the neighbour, who no longer lives in the mooban, is "connected".

[Cuban]

A common factor in some of the horror stories in this thread is the lack of supervision when the work is being carried out.

[kannot]

I've had both excellent work done by Thai workers and terrible work. It's taken a few years but now I have a variety of workers ... i.e., electrician, plumber, tile layers, carpenters, etc. ... that do excellent work and whom I trust to get it right.

Its been noted on a forum (CTH) thats no one recommends anyone as "consistency" is not there.

[kkerry]

There is an interesting Discovery channel doco from a few years back showing the construction of the Bhumibol Bridge. It's available from the usual sources if you Google. Take a look and you might find some of those tradesmen you don't see working everyday in your local sois.

[Kudel]

I dont believe anyone is suggesting you need to use an "oil rig welder" to weld a roof truss, but what you need to do is ensure the roof truss is being welding in accordance with the engineered design, ie a competant person, using the correct elctrodes (if the process is SMAW for example) and ensuring there are not excessive defects in the welds....yes even in "oil rig welding" certain discontinutes are permitted.

In other words you are meeting the intent of the engineered design, if you are not meeting this, you do run the risk of possible failure

The basic engineering principles of loads and forces whether a roof truss or an oil rig are the same...the key difference is the possible consequences of failure thats all, hence all the requirements on "oil rigs" as the consequence of failure is very high.

What "chrisinth" detailed in his example of roofing construction would be considered very good engineering practice as related to a load bearing structure...

It would be good to think that the angle iron roof truss for a normal 3or 4 bedroom house bought off the shelf in Thailand and maybe modified on site to suit would have been supplied by a company that had ndt practices inhouse in other words would have used coded welders its not really likely, the builder would just go for the cheapest option.

I can see a lot of posters on this topic understand best practice construction and if you know what to look for you can see good welding all around you most if not all stainless steel gates and railings you see are very neatly welded and sprinkler pipework in big builds are very neat work good looking welds and neatly fitted to the roof and the box section welding at Swampy all good work but off course that is all at a cost.

At home you see companies advertising for welders and are looking for 1st class and 2nd class welders for less skilled welders say for light roof truss work it would in most cases be just a visual look at the welds.

I dont like to think we are giving the impression to others reading this post that there roof is going to fall on top of them its probably as safe as houses

So why after six years or something are there renovation works being done?last year i saw alot of scafolds being built and most of the plumbing in said airport has to be re done apparently .when did swampy open 2006?

[Soutpeel]

I dont believe anyone is suggesting you need to use an "oil rig welder" to weld a roof truss, but what you need to do is ensure the roof truss is being welding in accordance with the engineered design, ie a competant person, using the correct elctrodes (if the process is SMAW for example) and ensuring there are not excessive defects in the welds....yes even in "oil rig welding" certain discontinutes are permitted.

In other words you are meeting the intent of the engineered design, if you are not meeting this, you do run the risk of possible failure

The basic engineering principles of loads and forces whether a roof truss or an oil rig are the same...the key difference is the possible consequences of failure thats all, hence all the requirements on "oil rigs" as the consequence of failure is very high.

What "chrisinth" detailed in his example of roofing construction would be considered very good engineering practice as related to a load bearing structure...

It would be good to think that the angle iron roof truss for a normal 3or 4 bedroom house bought off the shelf in Thailand and maybe modified on site to suit would have been supplied by a company that had ndt practices inhouse in other words would have used coded welders its not really likely, the builder would just go for the cheapest option.

I can see a lot of posters on this topic understand best practice construction and if you know what to look for you can see good welding all around you most if not all stainless steel gates and railings you see are very neatly welded and sprinkler pipework in big builds are very neat work good looking welds and neatly fitted to the roof and the box section welding at Swampy all good work but off course that is all at a cost.

At home you see companies advertising for welders and are looking for 1st class and 2nd class welders for less skilled welders say for light roof truss work it would in most cases be just a visual look at the welds.

I dont like to think we are giving the impression to others reading this post that there roof is going to fall on top of them its probably as safe as houses

So why after six years or something are there renovation works being done?last year i saw alot of scafolds being built and most of the plumbing in said airport has to be re done apparently .when did swampy open 2006?

The normal comments on TV are Thai's dont maintain anything and leave it until it goes to rack an ruin and now we are questioning or getting all cynical as to why they are carrying out maintenance..!!!.....even for a building 7 years old considering the through put of people, lots toilets being flushed, general wear & tear, one would expect lots of maintenance would be on-going...

Suppose in this case if the plumbing needed repair and it wasnt being done...TV finest would be stating "see Thai's dont maintain anything"...but we have a case were it seems maintenance/repair being done and it is still being questioned....

[Kudel]

I dont believe anyone is suggesting you need to use an "oil rig welder" to weld a roof truss, but what you need to do is ensure the roof truss is being welding in accordance with the engineered design, ie a competant person, using the correct elctrodes (if the process is SMAW for example) and ensuring there are not excessive defects in the welds....yes even in "oil rig welding" certain discontinutes are permitted.

In other words you are meeting the intent of the engineered design, if you are not meeting this, you do run the risk of possible failure

The basic engineering principles of loads and forces whether a roof truss or an oil rig are the same...the key difference is the possible consequences of failure thats all, hence all the requirements on "oil rigs" as the consequence of failure is very high.

What "chrisinth" detailed in his example of roofing construction would be considered very good engineering practice as related to a load bearing structure...

It would be good to think that the angle iron roof truss for a normal 3or 4 bedroom house bought off the shelf in Thailand and maybe modified on site to suit would have been supplied by a company that had ndt practices inhouse in other words would have used coded welders its not really likely, the builder would just go for the cheapest option.

I can see a lot of posters on this topic understand best practice construction and if you know what to look for you can see good welding all around you most if not all stainless steel gates and railings you see are very neatly welded and sprinkler pipework in big builds are very neat work good looking welds and neatly fitted to the roof and the box section welding at Swampy all good work but off course that is all at a cost.

At home you see companies advertising for welders and are looking for 1st class and 2nd class welders for less skilled welders say for light roof truss work it would in most cases be just a visual look at the welds.

I dont like to think we are giving the impression to others reading this post that there roof is going to fall on top of them its probably as safe as houses

So why after six years or something are there renovation works being done?last year i saw alot of scafolds being built and most of the plumbing in said airport has to be re done apparently .when did swampy open 2006?

The normal comments on TV are Thai's dont maintain anything and leave it until it goes to rack an ruin and now we are questioning or getting all cynical as to why they are carrying out maintenance..!!!.....even for a building 7 years old considering the through put of people, lots toilets being flushed, general wear & tear, one would expect lots of maintenance would be on-going...

Suppose in this case if the plumbing needed repair and it wasnt being done...TV finest would be stating "see Thai's dont maintain anything"...but we have a case were it seems maintenance/repair being done and it is still being questioned....

it is a wel known fact that some serious corners where cut when the airport was built,was also discussed to death on thaivisa at the time and in the english newspapers,remember the debacle with the crappy tarmac on the runways.when the airplane i was on landed last year only one runway was open because they were fixing al cracks and potholes on the other runways and this has been going on for how many years?

[arthurwait]

The normal comments on TV are Thai's dont maintain anything and leave it until it goes to rack an ruin and now we are questioning or getting all cynical as to why they are carrying out maintenance..!!!.....even for a building 7 years old considering the through put of people, lots toilets being flushed, general wear & tear, one would expect lots of maintenance would be on-going...

Suppose in this case if the plumbing needed repair and it wasnt being done...TV finest would be stating "see Thai's dont maintain anything"...but we have a case were it seems maintenance/repair being done and it is still being questioned....

it is a wel known fact that some serious corners where cut when the airport was built,was also discussed to death on thaivisa at the time and in the english newspapers,remember the debacle with the crappy tarmac on the runways.when the airplane i was on landed last year only one runway was open because they were fixing al cracks and potholes on the other runways and this has been going on for how many years?

You must be one of Thai-visas finest.

[DiNiro]

The worker that steals the most and does the least amount of work is the most admired person on the job.

Sad but true.

[Payboy]

You can't blame all the workers though, considering probably at least half of them were just standing around doing nothing.

[kikoman]

You seem to forget you are no longer in the old country, you are in Thailand, Things are done different here! Many fail to see why these "specifications" are implemented in the states (as that is the system, I am familiar with), As in the old days we could built our own houses in the US, the building industry found politicians that legislated the "Building Code" where a city inspector must approve the each step of the construction process You dig the foundation, you tie the steel per specifications, then you have to have a building inspector approve that prior to pouring the cement, when you pour the cement a building inspector has to take samples and have those samples analyzed/tested to see if they are up to "specifications" etc. the Building Code made the building of a house, taken away from the owner/home-builder and could only be done by contractors, then they went a little farther and required licence contractors, thus assuring the builders a captive market and a sure source of income, the cost of housing increased almost overnight.

Next this forum has addressed the welding of roofs and the quality of local workmanship.and a willingness to spend more money for better construction.

In the village roofs are mostly of timber construction and the only people that opt to have welded metal roof are those that do not have access to more expensive lumber, so in the rice-growing village where wood grows on your land, they opt for not only for timber roofs but also teak house construction.

Which results in the city of metal roofs more because it is a cheaper alternative to wood roofs as mostly used in home construction in the West.

The self construction and 300 baht per day tradesman fulfill the needs of the majority of the population of the citizens of Thailand, If one prefers the quality of builders from the west you could import those workers, pay their travel expenses, apply for their work permit here in Thailand and still result with building a less expensive house in Thailand.

If willing to pay that price, and leave us that find the Thai builder in Thailand as competent as any other builders on this earth. I for one being very satisfied with their work and or fruits of their labor, I have seen what you are advocating and its results of that mentality in building in the state of Arizona and most of the west.

Cheers:

[manly100]

pay 5000baht per hour or 200baht? your call.

[kevvy]

tell me about it , building 38 houses and every minute have to check the building quality .if you stay on top of them you will get a better job , and if the first time is no good tell them to do it again or they will not get paid . this works. well for me anyway . The first houses are finished and my wife and I are very proud of the houses and the quality of them .And cost just over 1 million. good house good workmanship .

IF someone western person can set up name list over good workers, and company names Phuket, and other places,it would be very good. So far my experience in Thailand in 4 years , is horrible companys ,and workers that do job on houses.

i agree , i had a hard time finding the right people and i have trained them . now get good houses built.

[weegee]

The last couple of days, I have been relocating my watering system for the garden tanks...

I put in 3 NEW inline Taps, and after great difficulties re-arranging everything....2 of them leaked, naturally just where I didn't want them to. Have to pull it all out and do again....

POINT:- Sometimes it's the crappy second rate products sold on in Thailand, as they are not to standards elsewhere, that are to blame, not just the workers....

[pigeonjake]

hi,

i suppose im one of the very lucky ones,

being a welder myself, welding supervisor/inspector now, but was a welder by trade,

so i did my own welding on my roof,

also my father was a builder, so i can lay a few blocks, our house is double block construction, the main reason being strenth also with having the gap between the blocks it cuts down on heat transfare from the sun through the blocks,

but to be honest i found the builder i had was ok, nothing special but i have seen worse in the uk, and i must admit i was there for the whole of the construction,

i did the plumbing myself,

all my electrics in the kitchen are earthed,

so all in all i found my guys to be very good,

i could go on about when i was operations manager in bkk, of a stainless steel fabrication company, working in the food industry,

the sheet metel workers/welders there were very good at there trade,

there were things i brought to the party, new tungston grinder imported from the states, weldable tape for backing the stainless instead of purging a whole tank, little things i helped with,

jake

[pj123]

When we moved into our new house on a Lalin Property village about 2 years ago we discovered what I will politely call very untidy wiring in the roof space. I complained and complained until they finally found a qualified electrician to redo the job. See the attached before and after photos.

[robblok]

hi,

i suppose im one of the very lucky ones,

being a welder myself, welding supervisor/inspector now, but was a welder by trade,

so i did my own welding on my roof,

also my father was a builder, so i can lay a few blocks, our house is double block construction, the main reason being strenth also with having the gap between the blocks it cuts down on heat transfare from the sun through the blocks,

but to be honest i found the builder i had was ok, nothing special but i have seen worse in the uk, and i must admit i was there for the whole of the construction,

i did the plumbing myself,

all my electrics in the kitchen are earthed,

so all in all i found my guys to be very good,

i could go on about when i was operations manager in bkk, of a stainless steel fabrication company, working in the food industry,

the sheet metel workers/welders there were very good at there trade,

there were things i brought to the party, new tungston grinder imported from the states, weldable tape for backing the stainless instead of purging a whole tank, little things i helped with,

jake

Thing is Jake you know how it should be done, i have no clue so i rely on the "builders" here. In the end my old dad came over and first he did the bathroom upstairs.. and last month the kitchen. Only the bathroom downstairs remains for him to do, when he is bored in the Netherlands. He works cheaper as the Thais, pays his own ticked and food (and mine at times).

But to be honest i would rather have gone fishing with him then let him slave way for 2 1/2 week in a kitchen. The result is great but rather paid someone to do it and have fun with him. Good thing he likes doing things like that and takes pride in his work.

[weegee]

Hey robblok....any chance your Father would like an all expenses paid working holiday...I know just the place.

[thaibeachlovers]

majority done by lowel level workers who have even never heard of the definitions you and Southpeel used in previous posts.

Yet I'm surprised that there are not yet brought forward any examples of failure due to this shoddy constructions.

Thats because they are not using proper tradesmen, a proper "time-served" welder will be aware of or know of most of the terms being used.

No one has brought forward any examples simply because no has looked and what you expect to find "headline" news in the Nation, house roof collaspes in Isaan, because of shoddy welds ?..

That's the whole point of my thread, where do I find "proper" tradesmen?

It's of absolutely no use to me to know that the ones working in big industry are great, I want a good electrician and welder here.

BTW, I borrowed a welder and did a lot of welding in the past few days. It isn't the best looking welding ever, but I know that I have good penetration because I spent a whole 60 baht for a face mask and could see what I was doing, unlike the cowboys that do it with their eyes closed here.

[thaibeachlovers]

When we moved into our new house on a Lalin Property village about 2 years ago we discovered what I will politely call very untidy wiring in the roof space. I complained and complained until they finally found a qualified electrician to redo the job. See the attached before and after photos.

I think my house could give you some competition, LOL.

I had to run a wire through the ceiling, so my wife pushed up the wire and I hooked it, but as it brushed past a wire to the ceiling light sparks erupted and the RCD switched off, so I didn't die. What sort of moron leaves exposed live wires where someone could touch them!

The 3,000 I spent on the RCD was probably the best investment of my life.

[GirlDrinkDrunk]

my favourite anecdote on poor workmanship i read on here some time ago.

essentially after moving into his new home the guy discovered three months later that the guest bedroom toilet was flushing with hot water.

[klubex99]

Had a lot of work done on the house last Aug/Sept 2 months in all up to 8 locals at times.. Already had to re-roof the kitchen and replace the ceiling as the water pissed in, and also had to go around after the sparky and tighten every single terminated wire. Plus had to go around cleaning all missed grout and also clean up hundreds of paint splashes just left on the tiles and paint smudges from the non-existent cutting in.

That was with me standing over them for 2 months, and making them tear down wonky work and redo it. If I could speak Thai fully, I would have looked for my own workers, but was once again it was left to the wife and her family to find a 'good' crew, which they replaced with a 'cheap' crew. No matter how much I intimated that quality was more important to me than saving a bit of money. I probably ended up paying more in repairs.

Watching over them was like watching a Laurel and Hardy movie.

[Crossy]

my favourite anecdote on poor workmanship i read on here some time ago.

essentially after moving into his new home the guy discovered three months later that the guest bedroom toilet was flushing with hot water.

Classic, nice clean loo though

We've actually had good experiences with our local one-man-bands where a single craftsman does the job along with his wife, also no major issues with the big suppliers like HomePro (who installed our aircon).

In our experience it's the mid-sized outfits who have semi-skilled, minimum wage installation crews without adequate supervision and who are provided with inadequate/blunt/broken tools (like the people who installed our gates) where wheels have tended to come off.

[DiNiro]

On a positive note, I moved into a house and the bathroom floor slopes toward the drain.

[weegee]

On a positive note, I moved into a house and the bathroom floor slopes toward the drain.

Accidental????????

[ThaidDown]

Accidental????????

Are you sure you haven't got a subsidence and it's dragging the floor down?

[NoshowJones]

that's normal here . . when our electrician was finished connecting the electricity of a new house to the existing one, we found out the day later that our tin roof was hot ! Luckily it was not the rainy season or we would have been grilled to dead on our verandas.

Just make sure that work is done correctly, don't leave builders and construction people unattended. I always watched over the construction from the very beginning to the end, and had been able by thus correcting a few issues so far.

Anytime I have had to get someone in to do any work in my house, be it electrical, building, or plumbing. I have been pleased with their work, and a lot of the brickwork was done my females. and I've got to say they were good at it.