Thailand urged to tackle dark side of 'Land of Smiles'

[EyesWideOpen]

Something should of been done about these problems many years ago ! But too much money to be made.

WAS money to be made. Again , as many people have predicted, scams are short term only, and in the end will come back to bite you in the ass, as more and more embassies issue tourist warnings about places like Phuket.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Story hiding in the other paper about Chinese tourists sleeping at the tourist police in pattaya because of being checked into 3 star accommodation instead of the paid for 5 by their tour company.

And the scams go on.....

How much were the tourist police charging them for the nightly accommodation???

[Thai at Heart]

Story hiding in the other paper about Chinese tourists sleeping at the tourist police in pattaya because of being checked into 3 star accommodation instead of the paid for 5 by their tour company.

And the scams go on.....

How much were the tourist police charging them for the nightly accommodation???

Apparently the story said that the tourist police got them a van and found them a better hotel. Safety in numbers I guess and hell hath no fury as a conned chinaman.

[Katipo]

Sadly, if the number of independent travellers drop, especially backpackers who support small locally owned businesses, we are likely to see a spike in tourist focused crimes as those depdendent on them for income become increasingly desperate. It's a downwards spiral that will be hard to pull out of.

[Thai at Heart]

Sadly, if the number of independent travellers drop, especially backpackers who support small locally owned businesses, we are likely to see a spike in tourist focused crimes as those depdendent on them for income become increasingly desperate. It's a downwards spiral that will be hard to pull out of.

Hard to extort tour groups who have paid up front and only touch the ground once they have been delivered by coach. The structure of Thai tourism is going to change vastly in the next few years.

[Nana Cowboy]

It'd be nice if there were some American voices airing criticisms and concerns too. This guy Lipman does a much, much better job than the U.S. ambassador, who not only fails to address these problems publicly, but went out of her way to thank Phuket's police force. Lipman sounds like he represents EU citizens first, whereas the U.S. government places its own affairs (like the so-called war on drugs) above the needs of its citizens.

not very many non punter American tourists come to Thailand.

[coma]

I have noticed a definate rise in violent crime towards foriegners in my area in Northern Thailand. Especially since the GFC crisis. Mostly Thais robbing farangs and using force to do so. Sometimes extreme force. I never used to be a supporter of people carrying weapons around on thier person but now I have changed that view. Now I never go out at night on foot without my little life insurance policy by my side.Strictly for defensive purposes of course.

[aTomsLife]

It'd be nice if there were some American voices airing criticisms and concerns too. This guy Lipman does a much, much better job than the U.S. ambassador, who not only fails to address these problems publicly, but went out of her way to thank Phuket's police force. Lipman sounds like he represents EU citizens first, whereas the U.S. government places its own affairs (like the so-called war on drugs) above the needs of its citizens.

Pivot To Asia

I would be surprised to hear the US criticizing any Pacific allies right now.

That's right. Yours is a better explanation. With regard to Thailand's strategic importance, the war on drugs is so very 20th century compared to countering China's influence. .

Edited July 19, 2013 by aTomsLife

[Huayrat]

Land Of Scams

[culicine]

This really is a non-story. As long as tourist numbers stay stable or increase, NOTHING is going to change. Only until tourist numbers/total income drops off in a big way will the TAT/Government get serious about these issues.

[ginjag]

It'd be nice if there were some American voices airing criticisms and concerns too. This guy Lipman does a much, much better job than the U.S. ambassador, who not only fails to address these problems publicly, but went out of her way to thank Phuket's police force. Lipman sounds like he represents EU citizens first, whereas the U.S. government places its own affairs (like the so-called war on drugs) above the needs of its citizens.

Pivot To Asia

I would be surprised to hear the US criticizing any Pacific allies right now.

That's right. Yours is a better explanation. With regard to Thailand's strategic importance, the war on drugs is so very 20th century compared to countering China's influence. .

The American ambassador -that lady is so nice it's unbelievable--too nice. Every interview given she goes out of her way to promote Thailand very rare a criticism, of all the dark sided things to speak out about, I get the impression she has a cushy job and doesn't want to ruffle feathers. couldn't she tackle the tourist problems and help???

[KED]

It'd be nice if there were some American voices airing criticisms and concerns too. This guy Lipman does a much, much better job than the U.S. ambassador, who not only fails to address these problems publicly, but went out of her way to thank Phuket's police force. Lipman sounds like he represents EU citizens first, whereas the U.S. government places its own affairs (like the so-called war on drugs) above the needs of its citizens.

I am an American, and I agree that tourists should be warned in advance of the high number of scams and the high number of traffic deaths in Thailand. However, it is hard for the U.S. to complain to Thailand when there are over 10,000 handgun deaths in the U.S. and the American government cannot make it's citizens safer in their own country.

Edited July 19, 2013 by KED

[PatOngo]

Welcome to LOS.............Land of Smirks.

[simple1]

It'd be nice if there were some American voices airing criticisms and concerns too. This guy Lipman does a much, much better job than the U.S. ambassador, who not only fails to address these problems publicly, but went out of her way to thank Phuket's police force. Lipman sounds like he represents EU citizens first, whereas the U.S. government places its own affairs (like the so-called war on drugs) above the needs of its citizens.

I am an American, and I agree that tourists should be warned in advance of the high number of scams and the high number of traffic deaths in Thailand. However, it is hard for the U.S. to complain to Thailand when there are over 10,000 handgun deaths in the U.S. and the American government cannot make it's citizens safer in their own country.

Covered in depth by US government travel advisory at:

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1040.htm

[Thai at Heart]

It'd be nice if there were some American voices airing criticisms and concerns too. This guy Lipman does a much, much better job than the U.S. ambassador, who not only fails to address these problems publicly, but went out of her way to thank Phuket's police force. Lipman sounds like he represents EU citizens first, whereas the U.S. government places its own affairs (like the so-called war on drugs) above the needs of its citizens.

I am an American, and I agree that tourists should be warned in advance of the high number of scams and the high number of traffic deaths in Thailand. However, it is hard for the U.S. to complain to Thailand when there are over 10,000 handgun deaths in the U.S. and the American government cannot make it's citizens safer in their own country.

Huh? I don't read about Brits, Aussies or other Westernised countries visiting the USA, having the same death toll as there is in Thailand.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Unless I've missed something, the U.S. Consulate here seems to have been noticeably absent from the group consuls' (seemingly EU-focused) protests raised in Phuket recently, and from general public expressions of concern about the variety of criminal activities aimed at tourists here.

Maybe they're doing something behind the scenes... Maybe they're doing nothing. But I suspect, other bigger concerns on their part are edging out concerns about the safety of their own citizens who come to Thailand. And I'm one of those citizens.

Edited July 19, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[aTomsLife]

It'd be nice if there were some American voices airing criticisms and concerns too. This guy Lipman does a much, much better job than the U.S. ambassador, who not only fails to address these problems publicly, but went out of her way to thank Phuket's police force. Lipman sounds like he represents EU citizens first, whereas the U.S. government places its own affairs (like the so-called war on drugs) above the needs of its citizens.

I am an American, and I agree that tourists should be warned in advance of the high number of scams and the high number of traffic deaths in Thailand. However, it is hard for the U.S. to complain to Thailand when there are over 10,000 handgun deaths in the U.S. and the American government cannot make it's citizens safer in their own country.

Huh? I don't read about Brits, Aussies or other Westernised countries visiting the USA, having the same death toll as there is in Thailand.

Exactly -- apples and oranges. Handgun deaths in the U.S. are irrelevant to tourism. I'm not saying tourists in American cities don't ever get scammed, say, in taxis, but that's about as far as it usually goes. There is no systematic corruption. Hertz doesn't extort tourists who rent their cars, and if they did the proper authorities would get involved immediately.

[TomTao]

If Thailand does not do anything about corruption, human trafficing and exploitation, and improve it's increasingly tarnished tourism image then the country may well face tourist numbers plateauing before falling, and if numbers do begin to fall, then the fall could become a cascade, afterall a bad reputation is hard to turn around, and the longer that reputation is allowed to become bad the harder it is to reverse. Word of mouth, and now word of internet is both the best and worse advertising you can have.

[Suroo]

Thailand's love affair with the bussed-around newbee cheap-charlie tourists and it's evident indifference to the 'traditional' high spending 'farangs' is puzzling until you think about it a little bit. The stake holders in package tourism are the 'already rich' amart and they care little for Thailand's small shopowners, bar owners, guesthouse owners etc. Tourism accounts for c.8% of GDP but accounts for c. 15% employment. The package tour crowd want to REDUCE the numbers in tourist employment to save costs and this is understanable from their point of view. What's incomprehensible in that the Government is encouraging this trend.

Traditional 'farang' tourists spent an estimated 25 time more per head than the package groups from China, Russia etc. YET europeans, americans etc. are given a miserly 15 day overland visa extension whereas another country's citizens (who can't afford even a 30 day visit) are granted 90 days. WHAT'S going on?

[Shagz]

I've been living in Thailand for over 11 years now and I went for a trip to Pattaya at the start of this year for the first time in 10 and I noticed the class of western tourists had considerably lowered, I saw one Thai lady on the beach cuddling and kissing a Thai man presumably her partner but I don't know for sure and then he quickly left and she walked across the road to greet a half decent looking elderly western man when she started yelling at him then smacked him over the head a few times with her handbag then escorted him down the road pulling on his shirt like a dog and he said or did nothing so the mind only boggles to what it was all about, a taxi driver advised me to take off my gold chain around my neck and the hotel had pictures of women to look out for and avoid as they would drug you then steal your gold and money but on the upside I did very much enjoy VIP seats at the Tiffany show and I found the western food had improved dramatically at decent restaurants

Edited July 19, 2013 by metisdead
Bold font removed.

[jpeg]

Reading that article, it makes you wonder why any tourists come at all.....

'and libidinous nightlife have long been a magnet for tourists from around the world'

Howzat?

[jpeg]

I've been living in Thailand for over 11 years now and I went for a trip to Pattaya at the start of this year for the first time in 10 and I noticed the class of western tourists had considerably lowered, I saw one Thai lady on the beach cuddling and kissing a Thai man presumably her partner but I don't know for sure and then he quickly left and she walked across the road to greet a half decent looking elderly western man when she started yelling at him then smacked him over the head a few times with her handbag then escorted him down the road pulling on his shirt like a dog and he said or did nothing so the mind only boggles to what it was all about, a taxi driver advised me to take off my gold chain around my neck and the hotel had pictures of women to look out for and avoid as they would drug you then steal your gold and money but on the upside I did very much enjoy VIP seats at the Tiffany show and I found the western food had improved dramatically at decent restaurants

Well what the hell do you expect from such a classy places as this ?

[Songhua]

Unfortunately, it's all gone too far. Authorities do not have a handle on something they should have begun addressing about ten or twelve years ago and now do not even have a clue how to recover from it. Nor do they seem to place a great deal of emphasis on actions harmful to tourism and which are often seen as very serious issues by the tourists themselves.
We can talk about it, the media can talk about it and the ambassadors can talk about it but, until it starts drastically affecting the numbers (heads and/or baht), it will not be focused on or seen for what it is by the only ones able to put a stop to it.
There seems to have been a snowball effect over the last few years as far as crime and scams are concerned. Every man and his dog wants in on it. Nowadays, you simply cannot visit any of the more popular tourist centres without at least seeing it.

Will they wait until absolute chaos reigns before they acknowledge there are problems? Will they finally acknowledge there are issues when scammers are operating just one metre apart rather than the current five metres?

The Chinese and Indians (TAT's new hope) may not wait that long to find out .... and nor might some others. 'Oh well, it's the way things are' will not be acceptable to the new visitors who thought they were going to be visiting paradise.

[useronthenet]

Burma must be rubbing it's hands with glee reading all these posts. Thailand will become yesterdays news overtaken by a country which is making all the right moves in the hope of attracting more tourists and the plan is now starting to pay off with numbers increasing every year. Unless Thailand addresses these serious issues which have been raised countlessly over the years, then I'm afraid it will end up as one huge dust bowl of emptyness. It's really upto Thailand now to determine it's future, which at the moment is looking pretty bleak.

[paz]

Burma must be rubbing it's hands with glee reading all these posts. Thailand will become yesterdays news overtaken by a country which is making all the right moves in the hope of attracting more tourists and the plan is now starting to pay off with numbers increasing every year. Unless Thailand addresses these serious issues which have been raised countlessly over the years, then I'm afraid it will end up as one huge dust bowl of emptyness. It's really upto Thailand now to determine it's future, which at the moment is looking pretty bleak.

Bleak what?

22 millions tourists and growing.

Almost zero unemployment.

Stedy economic growth.

I have been anywhere in the world I feel safer much safer here.

Thailand must only not make major mistakes. All the rest are details and just fillup for newpapers a lazy talks here.

[ratcatcher]

I've been living in Thailand for over 11 years now and I went for a trip to Pattaya at the start of this year for the first time in 10 and I noticed the class of western tourists had considerably lowered, I saw one Thai lady on the beach cuddling and kissing a Thai man presumably her partner but I don't know for sure and then he quickly left and she walked across the road to greet a half decent looking elderly western man when she started yelling at him then smacked him over the head a few times with her handbag then escorted him down the road pulling on his shirt like a dog and he said or did nothing so the mind only boggles to what it was all about, a taxi driver advised me to take off my gold chain around my neck and the hotel had pictures of women to look out for and avoid as they would drug you then steal your gold and money but on the upside I did very much enjoy VIP seats at the Tiffany show and I found the western food had improved dramatically at decent restaurants

I hope you enjoyed your Pattaya eye opener.

I am quite surprised that someone who has lived here for 11 years would wear a gold chain around their neck in Pattaya of all places. Nice of the taxi driver to be civil and warn you.

Reminds me of the shirt sleeved businessmen expats still wearing their ties that used to infest Nana & Cowboy and then wonder why they got ripped off.

[darrendsd]

Burma must be rubbing it's hands with glee reading all these posts. Thailand will become yesterdays news overtaken by a country which is making all the right moves in the hope of attracting more tourists and the plan is now starting to pay off with numbers increasing every year. Unless Thailand addresses these serious issues which have been raised countlessly over the years, then I'm afraid it will end up as one huge dust bowl of emptyness. It's really upto Thailand now to determine it's future, which at the moment is looking pretty bleak.

Burma is still probably 20 years away from becoming a major tourist destination like Thailand is.

Visitor numbers keep growing despite all the doom and gloom merchants on TV

I have been to Benidorm once, a group of Spanish tried to attack my friend on the street for no reason, a popular sport in Spain for locals to attack tourists

I have been to Amsterdam a few times, a friend with me was nearly mugged at the train station, another time myself and a different friend were threatened by a guy with a knife, no reason for it, he was a junkie

Shit happens around the world not just Thailand, the tourists will keep coming here

[Shagz]

Burma must be rubbing it's hands with glee reading all these posts. Thailand will become yesterdays news overtaken by a country which is making all the right moves in the hope of attracting more tourists and the plan is now starting to pay off with numbers increasing every year. Unless Thailand addresses these serious issues which have been raised countlessly over the years, then I'm afraid it will end up as one huge dust bowl of emptyness. It's really upto Thailand now to determine it's future, which at the moment is looking pretty bleak.

I also hear a lot about Laos and Vietnam from westerners these days, I've never personally been to Vietnam but some people say it's a bit like Thailand 20 years ago, I've been to Laos a few times and enjoyed it very much, I see the banks and gold shops still don't have any need for police or security attendance

[Shagz]

I've been living in Thailand for over 11 years now and I went for a trip to Pattaya at the start of this year for the first time in 10 and I noticed the class of western tourists had considerably lowered, I saw one Thai lady on the beach cuddling and kissing a Thai man presumably her partner but I don't know for sure and then he quickly left and she walked across the road to greet a half decent looking elderly western man when she started yelling at him then smacked him over the head a few times with her handbag then escorted him down the road pulling on his shirt like a dog and he said or did nothing so the mind only boggles to what it was all about, a taxi driver advised me to take off my gold chain around my neck and the hotel had pictures of women to look out for and avoid as they would drug you then steal your gold and money but on the upside I did very much enjoy VIP seats at the Tiffany show and I found the western food had improved dramatically at decent restaurants

I hope you enjoyed your Pattaya eye opener.

I am quite surprised that someone who has lived here for 11 years would wear a gold chain around their neck in Pattaya of all places. Nice of the taxi driver to be civil and warn you.

Reminds me of the shirt sleeved businessmen expats still wearing their ties that used to infest Nana & Cowboy and then wonder why they got ripped off.

I live in a very small north eastern village, the biggest crime around here is when someones dog urinates on someone else's vegetable patch so yes it was a big eye opener to Pattaya's current state and I always enjoy myself no matter where I am thank you, the biggest thing that sticks out in my mind 10 years ago when I was there is when I was walking down second street and saw a large group of what looked like Muslims all wearing the same September 11 Osama Bin Laden T shirts, I must admit that did freak me out and I did cross the road, there are still plenty of good people out there and the bad are only the minority but of course certain places attract more than others and why any one would wear a tie when they don't actually have to is beyond me.........cheers

[surangw]

they should have plenty to do, there seems to be more dark than light.

as for digging too deep, they may just find a mirror after a few shovel full