Phrae derailment typical of train accidents in Thailand

[LomSak27]

_{Not at all Ozmick}

_{chiangmai -p-loke is about 480 B for a 2nd class air SEAT}

_{237 baht by air bus}

_{I tried to take the trains more this year. Its really sad, what you get for what you pay}

[gbswales]

Analysis correct: the Thai railway system is a museum piece, and a dangerous one at that.

Solutions incorrect: the Hopewell project had nothing to do with updating the system, and the current high-speed trains idea is totally ridiculous, like trying to run before you can even walk.

Solution correct: upgrading to a twin-track express train system of European 1980s standards.

Any particular reason for the 1980 standards. Are they is such a bad condition that it would be impossible to do any better with out a complete rebuild of the trains and rails?

They are narrow guage - a standard abolished in most countries many years ago. I think 1980's really just means getting the railways to a standard that can be built and improved on. A complete relaying of all track with proper land preparation first. Allowance needs also to be made for the extremes of weather that Thailand can experience - expansion tolerance, huge capacity drainage etc. The only logical way is to engage contractors from overseas countries which have decades of experience of building fast tracks and trains. There is no ground base of experience and experts are needed for the first project - they will use Thai workers which should help build the experience for the future. The outside company will need to check supplied materials at every stage to make sure that 30% of the product hasnt mysteriously vanished to line someone's pocket.

[gbswales]

Analysis correct: the Thai railway system is a museum piece, and a dangerous one at that.

Solutions incorrect: the Hopewell project had nothing to do with updating the system, and the current high-speed trains idea is totally ridiculous, like trying to run before you can even walk.

Solution correct: upgrading to a twin-track express train system of European 1980s standards.

Any particular reason for the 1980 standards. Are they is such a bad condition that it would be impossible to do any better with out a complete rebuild of the trains and rails?

They are narrow guage - a standard abolished in most countries many years ago. I think 1980's really just means getting the railways to a standard that can be built and improved on. A complete relaying of all track with proper land preparation first. Allowance needs also to be made for the extremes of weather that Thailand can experience - expansion tolerance, huge capacity drainage etc. The only logical way is to engage contractors from overseas countries which have decades of experience of building fast tracks and trains. There is no ground base of experience and experts are needed for the first project - they will use Thai workers which should help build the experience for the future. The outside company will need to check supplied materials at every stage to make sure that 30% of the product hasnt mysteriously vanished to line someone's pocket.

[beowolf2012]

t should be noted that railway system in Thailand is very limited and poorly maintained. The system mostly employed diesel trains that would have been displayed in museum in some countries. No major extension nor overhaul of the railway has been completed for several decades now

Please fix the problems................................................................................

[mok199]

a railway properly managed will have ''slows'',on portions of track that have been washed away etc,mabey this was a new wash out,mabey it was human error,drug testing and proper rail bed inspection should be manditory esp when passenger trains and trains with dangerous commodity are involved...

[OzMick]

_{Not at all Ozmick}

_{chiangmai -p-loke is about 480 B for a 2nd class air SEAT}

_{237 baht by air bus}

_{I tried to take the trains more this year. Its really sad, what you get for what you pay}

Are you buying your tickets at the station (from a SRT agent, same price) or a travel agent? Surat Thani to BKK is a tad over B1000 for both the g/f and myself in an upper/lower sleeping berth combo. Buses vary from a little cheaper to B800+ for leg room 1st class.

I just checked that and the a/c price looks to have increased to B700 but that price still good for 2nd fan - which I prefer as the a/c gets too bloody cold after 10+ hours. Your price seems right , too. I'm wondering if the high price might be because the booking system is unable to handle split bookings, such as selling your seat from P'lock to BKK.

http://www.thailandtrainticket.com/trainticket/index.asp

[Bof]

Analysis correct: the Thai railway system is a museum piece, and a dangerous one at that.

Solutions incorrect: the Hopewell project had nothing to do with updating the system, and the current high-speed trains idea is totally ridiculous, like trying to run before you can even walk.

Solution correct: upgrading to a twin-track express train system of European 1980s standards.

Any particular reason for the 1980 standards. Are they is such a bad condition that it would be impossible to do any better with out a complete rebuild of the trains and rails?

They are narrow guage - a standard abolished in most countries many years ago. I think 1980's really just means getting the railways to a standard that can be built and improved on. A complete relaying of all track with proper land preparation first. Allowance needs also to be made for the extremes of weather that Thailand can experience - expansion tolerance, huge capacity drainage etc. The only logical way is to engage contractors from overseas countries which have decades of experience of building fast tracks and trains. There is no ground base of experience and experts are needed for the first project - they will use Thai workers which should help build the experience for the future. The outside company will need to check supplied materials at every stage to make sure that 30% of the product hasnt mysteriously vanished to line someone's pocket.

Rubbish, meter gauge in Thailand, Malaysia,Vietnam, Cambodia and pretty much all over South East Asia.

[ratcatcher]

They are narrow guage - a standard abolished in most countries many years ago. I think 1980's really just means getting the railways to a standard that can be built and improved on. A complete relaying of all track with proper land preparation first. Allowance needs also to be made for the extremes of weather that Thailand can experience - expansion tolerance, huge capacity drainage etc. The only logical way is to engage contractors from overseas countries which have decades of experience of building fast tracks and trains. There is no ground base of experience and experts are needed for the first project - they will use Thai workers which should help build the experience for the future. The outside company will need to check supplied materials at every stage to make sure that 30% of the product hasnt mysteriously vanished to line someone's pocket.

Rubbish, meter gauge in Thailand, Malaysia,Vietnam, Cambodia and pretty much all over South East Asia.

Plus South Africa, Zimbabwe, Zambia and east African states. Not sure about west Africa. All meter gauge.

[Bagwan]

And did the Thai motorman flee?

Yes, but the man walking ahead carrying the red flag was nabbed.

[Dljohnt]

Well even in germany are still some tracks in the 1000mm gauge..... But nobody with common sence build new tracks with this gauge.

The standard gauge of 1435mm is very common in the world and even that gauge is considerd not wide enough to be 100% stable. But ALL high speed train tracks in the world are now made in the standard gauge. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_gauge

Replacing the wooden sleeper with a concrete sleeper is no good if the concrete sleepers are from some inferior quality. I have seen loads of sleepers not conected to the rails, concrete or wooden. Maintenace is well below the norm for safety.

So why plan a high speed train? Start with making the land under the track stable, dubbel the tracks and go to the standard gauge. After that you can think of electrify the lines. If you generate enough passengers by then you can start thinking of a high speed train who then might pay itself back. In the mean time (I hope) they have build enough knowledge to maintain it all.

[Bagwan]

The real cause is probably the train drivers being reckless and going too fast on bends ... like their Mini Van counterparts.

Get real. The train is barely damaged; if travelling at speed there would be bits and pieces scattered everywhere. Look at the picture. That isn't much of a bend even for an HST. If the fault lies with the track bed then maybe it's drainage needs serious attention. I'm wondering about the profile of the tyres, whether the flanges are worn below spec and that the tyres still maintain a suitable degree of taper towards their outer extremities. It is the tapered tyres that keep the train on the track.

[Bagwan]

They are narrow guage - a standard abolished in most countries many years ago. I think 1980's really just means getting the railways to a standard that can be built and improved on. A complete relaying of all track with proper land preparation first. Allowance needs also to be made for the extremes of weather that Thailand can experience - expansion tolerance, huge capacity drainage etc. The only logical way is to engage contractors from overseas countries which have decades of experience of building fast tracks and trains. There is no ground base of experience and experts are needed for the first project - they will use Thai workers which should help build the experience for the future. The outside company will need to check supplied materials at every stage to make sure that 30% of the product hasnt mysteriously vanished to line someone's pocket.

Rubbish, meter gauge in Thailand, Malaysia,Vietnam, Cambodia and pretty much all over South East Asia.

Plus South Africa, Zimbabwe, Zambia and east African states. Not sure about west Africa. All meter gauge.

Metre gauge was usually adopted on the grounds of economy and the ability to choose a more direct route. The bends on a standard gauge line must of necessity be of greater radius. Standard gauge therefore requires more civil engineering application if large detours to bypass hilly terrain and other natural hazards are to be avoided. The good news is that mechanical muscle makes the building much easier now.

[Khunangkaro]

Don't know real statistics but it seems to me that chance of accidents per KM is much lower for rail then for road.

As for suspension, many busses (not from Issaan) are more comfortable than train, but less or no room for legs and can forget about sleeping.

So I very much prefer laying down sprawled at rocking train, wake up reasonably rested and with no swollen legs.

[AloisAmrein]

Thailand should learn from China and Vietnam. In both countries I travelled by train, the best experience is in Vietnam, but still not comparable to Europe.

[Banzai99]

What would be the outcome if it was a sppedtrain running in 250-300 km/h. I am sorry Thailand but you are not up for a speedtrain, yet.

Don't really matter to you does it.

You'll be dead anyway.

[Banzai99]

Thailand should learn from China and Vietnam. In both countries I travelled by train, the best experience is in Vietnam, but still not comparable to Europe.

So, should they learn from China or Vietnam, or Europe ?

[Banzai99]

In a previous life I was a Civil Engineer on Railways.

I cringe at Farangs slagging off the That Rail system, look at the accident record in the UK, I worked at Hither Green, Lewisham,, scenes of carnage, and not one Thai in sight.

Some of you people should wind your necks in, andstop this attitude that everything Farangs do is right, and everything Thais do is wrong !!!

Edited July 23, 2013 by Support

[Banzai99]

Anyone want to talk Railway?

[Banzai99]

Sorry.

In a previous life my job was a T.O. on the railway, T.O. = Technical Officer. I left before I became an S.T.O or a P.T.O Senior Technical Officer, Principal Technical Officer, most of the guys working in our office were useless. They didn't have a clue.

The guys that get the jobs done are the gangers, they actually know what they are doing , without having any engineering qualifications, TO's would have a tape and a thermometer, and would go by the book, or, so they should.

The final signature was mine, even though I knew naff all compared to these guys, I had to sign the paper, if it was wrong and there was a derailment, I'd be in court, cos I had to sign my name so I always went by the book.

I saw some Plasser tampers in Bkk once, they cost a lot of money.

Anyway, what I'm saying is, the Railways are safe.

[Banzai99]

Sorry guys, it just hits a nerve is all.

[hyperdimension]

Are you buying your tickets at the station (from a SRT agent, same price) or a travel agent? Surat Thani to BKK is a tad over B1000 for both the g/f and myself in an upper/lower sleeping berth combo. Buses vary from a little cheaper to B800+ for leg room 1st class.

I just checked that and the a/c price looks to have increased to B700 but that price still good for 2nd fan - which I prefer as the a/c gets too bloody cold after 10+ hours. Your price seems right , too. I'm wondering if the high price might be because the booking system is unable to handle split bookings, such as selling your seat from P'lock to BKK.

http://www.thailandtrainticket.com/trainticket/index.asp

That is a travel agent's web site with more expensive rates. The official web site is http://www.railway.co.th.